Unrealistic expectations?

[Thornton]

My bf and I were in an LDR for the first few months (him in my home state, me at college). We met at Xmas 2009 when I was home for the holidays, and when I graduated in summer 2010 I moved home to be closer to him. I lived with my parents briefly until I found a job and got my own place - at that point we hadn't really dated for long enough to consider living together.

 

Now we've been dating properly since summer 2010 when I came home, and we're still living separately. He says it's pointless to discuss any issues relating to the future of our relationship because living together and other stuff isn't on the cards yet - we've been dating properly since summer 2010 and have known each other for longer, but we're still at the stage where he stays over one night a week and we spend a couple evenings together during the week.

 

So my first question is: How far into a relationship do most people consider living together? Are we far enough along, or is he right in saying that it's still too early to discuss our future?

 

I have some concerns about living together though. My girlfriends say why would he buy the cow if he's getting the milk for free? I read some articles online that said people who live together are more likely to get divorced later on. Plus I think it's really starting our relationship off on the wrong foot if we move in together without any commitment and just see how it goes, with the assumption that it's just a try out and either of us might walk away.

 

I'd much prefer if we were committed to our relationship before we took a big step like living together and joining our lives. Not saying we have to be married, but I'd at least like to be engaged and be pretty sure that we plan to stay together. Maybe get engaged and set a rough wedding date for a couple years time, and then move in together for those two years while we save for the wedding, and work out all the kinks before we actually marry. But he says absolutely no way, he has to have a trial run before he'll even consider committing to me. I'm a person, not a kitchen appliance that comes with a "love it or get your money back" guarantee!

 

So my second question is: Is it totally unreasonable to want some sort of commitment before we take a big step like moving in together? Like an engagement or something? Or am I being unfair? Should I totally give in and just live with him even though it's not what I really want, just cuz he says "that's how everyone does it?"

 

Thanks in advance guys

 

Edited to add: We're 28 so not exactly college kids, and not too young for commitment.

Edited November 27, 2011 by Thornton

[oldshirt]

Let's take any discussion of "how long into a relationship......" off the table for a moment.

 

This is going to be a real long post but your parents seem to have neglected to tell what dating, cohabitating, engagement and committment/marriage is so please take the time to read through all of this thoroughly. It may not be fun to read but it will save you A LOT of heartache and anguish down the road.

 

Your real issue here is about commitment so let's talk about what commitment is and what it is not.

 

First off you two are currently dating. Dating is NOT committment. Dating is where you spend time together and do things together to get to know each other as people to see if that person is someone that would be a good mate for you or not. You can have an exclusivity agreeement at some point where you agree to only date each other untill you either make a formal, binding committment or you agree to not be exclusive, not commit and possibly not even date any more.

 

- Sex, passion, words of endearment, gifts, suppers and hand-holding walks on the beach in the moonlight are NOT commitments.

 

- COHABITATING IS NOT COMMITMENT!!! It is not a commitment and should NEVER be interpreted as one OR EVEN LEAD YOU TO BELIEVE THAT A COMMITTMENT IS IN THE FUTURE. Cohabitating is simply living under the same roof. It is a roommate agreement on things like rent, utilities etc. Either one of you is perfectly welcome to break the roommate agreement and walk away scot-free. Your roommate can sue you for things like your share of the rent/deposit/utilities etc but there is no committment and each of you is perfectly able to date whoever you like, **** whoever you like and noone can really say anything about it because there is no committment.

 

So let's talk about what committment is. A committment is when the man purchases a ring valued at at least 3months worth of his earnings and gets down on one knee and asks if you would marry him. If you accept, that is what is engagement.

 

- Engagement is when a couple has agreed to commit to each other and agree to formalize AND LEGALIZE that committment in a legally and socially binding marriage at a to-be-determined date in the future. Each party is still free to cancel the engage and forgo the marriage. Many states will require the female to return the ring if she cancels the marraige plans and the engagement. Many states will allow her to keep the ring if he cancels the engagement/wedding.

 

In order for a formal engagement to exist three things must be in order - there must have been a proposal/accpetance of marriage ("WILL YOU BE ENGAGED WITH ME?" DOES NOT, REPEAT NOT! COUNT. IT MUST BE A PROPOSAL OF MARRAIGE) There must be a ring or other symbol of innate value exchanged ....ie a ring. And there must be a date of marriage set and scheduled with the location of the wedding and with the legally recognized official that will perform the wedding ie a judge, a minister, justice of the peace etc. If those three things are not in place, you are NOT engaged and you or your BF is just pretending to be engaged. So to recap, an engagement involves proposal of and acceptance of marraige. A ring. And a scheduled appointment for the wedding with the location reserved and the official scheduled.

 

Now what the actual committment is. The actual committment is when each of you legally swears that you will be in a legally wedded partnership before a legally recognized official and with at least two adult witnesses present to document the maritial contract. At that point you are each responsible parties for the other person's legal financial transactions, health and all legal business. Any children born of that contract will be both of your legal responsibilities untill they reach legal adulthood.

 

What committment means is that if either you decide to end the maritial contract you will be legally required to file for a legal divorce through the court system and the court will divide up all the maritial assests and will determine the custodial care and financial support of all children born out of that marraige.

 

THAT is what committment is. Anything less than that or anything missing any of those steps is NOT a committment, it is just two individuals spending time together.

[oldshirt]

.

 

 

He says it's pointless to discuss any issues relating to the future of our relationship because living together and other stuff isn't on the cards yet

 

 

 

-

 

So now that we have addressed what a committment is and what it is not. Read this statement about your BF again and tell me if he is ready for a committment??????????????????????????????????

 

He may be a great guy. He may be nice and responsible and love puppys and walks on the beach. He may help little old ladies across the street and call his mother at 5 oclock every Sunday night but at this point in time does he sound like a man that is ready to go through all those hoops and hurdles and through all those steps to become committed?

 

It doesn't matter if you have been dating a week or a decade, does he sound like he is ready to commit to you when he makes statements like this?

 

Look, I'm really truly not trying to be mean or condescending to you. My wife and I each wanted a committment before we lived under the same roof so I got down on one knee with a ring and proposed and she accepted and we planned a wedding for 7 months and got married and we moved in together.

 

16 years and two kids later we are still under the same roof and still committed.

 

 

HOW DO YOU THINK IT WOULD HAVE ENDED IF SHE HAD BADGERED ME INTO MOVING INTO TOGETHER BECAUSE WE HAD BEEN DATING A YEAR??????????

 

How do you think it would have gone if either of us had assumed and accepted that living together constituted a committment?

[oldshirt]

Oh I wanna say one more word about the proposal and the engagement ring and the date and what they all mean and why they are important and then I'll shut up.

 

Guys can and will say anything to keep a pussy around to park their dick in at night. People knew this going clear back to the dawn of the mankind.

 

That is why all cultures from all corners of the globe came up with the concept of the proposal, the ring and the date. (it may not be an actual ring as we know it is this culture but the concept of something of monetary value)

 

Anyone can say anything and at your age you probably know a few gals who claim to be "engaged" but have been engaged for the last 8 years with no progress in sight.

 

The tradition of the male proposal of MARRIAGE and the lady in waiting was started because females crave security (ie committment) and males are much more reluctant to commit so the tradition was established that the males would be the ones to initiate the marriage process because they were the ones less inclined to do so and because women can pretty pressure and badger a man into anything. The tradition of the man asking her father for his blessings and then to get down on one knee and propose was to show that he had thought about and was serious about it. Again, the proposal must be for MARRIAGE and not a proposal of 'engagement.' You can not be engaged just to be engaged. Engaged does not carry any significant legal power or committment.

 

The tradition of the ring is to show that he is willing to give her a "deposit" of significant monetary value that will become part of the maritial assets. If he were to cancel the maritial plans she would keep his "deposit". and if she were to cancel the maritial plans the "deposit" would be returned. Again it is to show that the male was serious about the lifelong committment and wasn't just keeping a chick around to park his dick in at night.

 

The significance of the date is to show intent of marriage and that the couple is in fact moving forward towards a maritial contract and it is not just lip-service to an engagement just to be engaged. We all know couples that have been engaged for years with no wedding plans and no dates set. Those are illegitimate engagements and are just a lip-service engagement to keep a pussy around and to from leaving for another man who is willing to marry her.

[Thornton]

I don't want to badger him into any kind of commitment. Yes, I know that dating isn't commitment. I also know that cohabiting isn't commitment, hence why I'm unwilling to cohabit unless we have a wedding date planned.

 

But he seems to be of the opinion that "everyone" lives together before they get married, and he thinks I'm being unreasonable by not wanting to live together so he can have a trial run of what it would be like to be married, before he makes a decision about whether he actually wants to marry me. I'm not sure which one of us is being unreasonable here!

 

However, although he wants to live together before marriage, he isn't ready to live together after dating for 16 months (plus we kept in touch for six months before that). So I'm thinking: He isn't even ready to live together in an uncommitted way, so he sure as hell isn't going to propose marriage in the foreseeable future, which is what I'd ideally like to happen before we live together. In fact I'm beginning to think it's unlikely he'll ever propose marriage at all, since he insists we have to live together first, which I really don't want to do.

 

I'm prepared to compromise if I'm genuinely being unreasonable... but I don't think I am. Is it really so bad that we're a year and a half into our relationship and I'd like to at least discuss where we're heading? Is it really so bad that I'd like some sort of commitment (i.e. a proposal) before we live together?

[in_absentia]

Hey hun.

 

In my opinion, a year is enough time to consider living together. In my last relationship I really wanted us to live together, marriage etc. wasn't even something I had considered but I truly wanted to live with my partner, after three years he was still dragging his feet and I left him a few months after. I was just sick of being stuck in this dating phase of seeing each other a few times a week, spending maybe one night a week together and I wanted more.

 

Fast forward a few months and I became involved with a friend of mine. We slept together as friends, officially became exclusive around December 2010 and moved in February 2011. It just felt right, we both didn't even consider NOT spending each night in bed together, there were no big arguments, tears, crying etc. we just both wanted it, and it has been brilliant. Obviously we discussed where we saw our relationship going and timescales for marriage etc. but it feels so great living together.

 

It felt like my ex was constantly keeping me at arm's length, happy to date but not wanting any more than that, but with my boyfriend now I know he wants to see me every day, do all the mundane stuff like food shopping and unblocking the toilet and still sleep next to me every night and it just feels so fantastic to be on the same wavelength as someone else.

 

But there are two concerns in your post, a) whether it is too soon to move in together or b) whether you're wrong in wanting to be engaged first. Regarding moving in, it can mean different levels of committment to everyone, some see it as a 'let's see how it goes' and others as a trial for marriage. The committment involved also depends on whether you buy a house together with a mortgage, one of you moves in to the other's place or you rent a new place together.

 

Regarding being engaged, you are NOT wrong to want that at all, but I don't think trying to kind of talk or push your boyfriend into doing it is a good idea, you will just end up feeling like you've forced him into it, if he even relents at all. I wonder if the reason you want that is because you sense his trepidation and not quite full committment towards you, as displayed by his reluctance to discuss moving in? Maybe you feel as though you get a bit more security that way.

 

I used to seethe with envy reading about couples happily cohabiting while my ex refused to do that with me. So after enough time had passed, I left him, which made way for my current relationship to spring up and it's everything I dreamt it would be. I hope you figure a way to be happy.

 

EDIT I forgot to add, my ex did eventually agree on us moving in, but as soon as I had done so I realised that so much time had passed with me waiting for HIM to be ready it wasn't how I wanted it to be at all, I couldn't relax and enjoy it knowing that I'd basically been the one to push the issue and that he probably would still have not brought it up if I hadn't first. I think there was a window for me when it would have been fantastic, but after that window passed it just didn't feel right anymore. We had to live together for 6 months as exes so you can imagine how awkward that was at times.

Edited November 27, 2011 by in_absentia

[Thornton]

I was just sick of being stuck in this dating phase of seeing each other a few times a week, spending maybe one night a week together and I wanted more... It felt like my ex was constantly keeping me at arm's length, happy to date but not wanting any more than that.

Yeah, that's kind of how I feel. Like our relationship doesn't seem to be heading anywhere and he doesn't even want to talk about the future. My sister's bf proposed on their 1 year anniversary. So I'm like, he obviously met her and knew straight away that he totally loved her and wanted to be with her, and I've been with my bf for longer than that and he isn't even ready to discuss living together. It kinda sucks

 

Regarding moving in, it can mean different levels of committment to everyone.

Yeah, he insists that it's like a commitment, while I think it totally is NOT.

 

Regarding being engaged, you are NOT wrong to want that at all, but I don't think trying to kind of talk or push your boyfriend into doing it is a good idea.

No, I def don't want to push him into anything. I'd just kinda like it if he wanted to be with me, you know? And I'm a bit upset that he doesn't seem to want any more than just hanging out a couple times a week, despite the fact that we met almost two years ago.

 

I wonder if the reason you want that is because you sense his trepidation and not quite full committment towards you, as displayed by his reluctance to discuss moving in? Maybe you feel as though you get a bit more security that way.

Yeah, maybe. He's already said that he sees living together as a commitment (which it isn't, but anyway...) So I kinda feel like if we lived together, he'd think that was enough of a commitment and would drag his heels about marriage, and might end up just living with me for a few years and then moving on... I don't want to end up nagging him because I want him to want me of his own accord, if that makes sense... and I don't want to end up as one of those sad women who hangs on for years waiting for their bf to propose, when everyone else can see that he doesn't love and respect her enough to marry her.

 

I certainly don't want to end up as the woman who wastes years in a live-in relationship waiting for her man to propose, and then he dumps her and immediately proposes to a younger girl, while she's left alone and childless. It happened to my aunt, she lived with someone right through her thirties, and age 38 he dumped her without ever proposing and immediately married a girl age 29, who had his baby while my aunt was too old to have any. Maybe seeing that happen has opened my eyes to how badly cohabiting can turn out when it doesn't lead to marriage...

[renata]

Sorry if I misread this, but I don't get it. The way I read this is, he does not want to live together because it's too soon in your relationship. So why would you be "giving in" by living with him before you are engaged??

 

My bf and I were in an LDR for the first few months (him in my home state, me at college). We met at Xmas 2009 when I was home for the holidays, and when I graduated in summer 2010 I moved home to be closer to him. I lived with my parents briefly until I found a job and got my own place - at that point we hadn't really dated for long enough to consider living together.

 

Now we've been dating properly since summer 2010 when I came home, and we're still living separately. He says it's pointless to discuss any issues relating to the future of our relationship because living together and other stuff isn't on the cards yet - we've been dating properly since summer 2010 and have known each other for longer, but we're still at the stage where he stays over one night a week and we spend a couple evenings together during the week.

 

So my first question is: How far into a relationship do most people consider living together? Are we far enough along, or is he right in saying that it's still too early to discuss our future?

 

I have some concerns about living together though. My girlfriends say why would he buy the cow if he's getting the milk for free? I read some articles online that said people who live together are more likely to get divorced later on. Plus I think it's really starting our relationship off on the wrong foot if we move in together without any commitment and just see how it goes, with the assumption that it's just a try out and either of us might walk away.

 

I'd much prefer if we were committed to our relationship before we took a big step like living together and joining our lives. Not saying we have to be married, but I'd at least like to be engaged and be pretty sure that we plan to stay together. Maybe get engaged and set a rough wedding date for a couple years time, and then move in together for those two years while we save for the wedding, and work out all the kinks before we actually marry. But he says absolutely no way, he has to have a trial run before he'll even consider committing to me. I'm a person, not a kitchen appliance that comes with a "love it or get your money back" guarantee!

 

So my second question is: Is it totally unreasonable to want some sort of commitment before we take a big step like moving in together? Like an engagement or something? Or am I being unfair? Should I totally give in and just live with him even though it's not what I really want, just cuz he says "that's how everyone does it?"

 

Thanks in advance guys

 

Edited to add: We're 28 so not exactly college kids, and not too young for commitment.

[renata]

Neither one of you is being unreasonable, you just have differing/incompatible expectations of how relationships proceed.

 

I don't want to badger him into any kind of commitment. Yes, I know that dating isn't commitment. I also know that cohabiting isn't commitment, hence why I'm unwilling to cohabit unless we have a wedding date planned.

 

But he seems to be of the opinion that "everyone" lives together before they get married, and he thinks I'm being unreasonable by not wanting to live together so he can have a trial run of what it would be like to be married, before he makes a decision about whether he actually wants to marry me. I'm not sure which one of us is being unreasonable here!

 

However, although he wants to live together before marriage, he isn't ready to live together after dating for 16 months (plus we kept in touch for six months before that). So I'm thinking: He isn't even ready to live together in an uncommitted way, so he sure as hell isn't going to propose marriage in the foreseeable future, which is what I'd ideally like to happen before we live together. In fact I'm beginning to think it's unlikely he'll ever propose marriage at all, since he insists we have to live together first, which I really don't want to do.

 

I'm prepared to compromise if I'm genuinely being unreasonable... but I don't think I am. Is it really so bad that we're a year and a half into our relationship and I'd like to at least discuss where we're heading? Is it really so bad that I'd like some sort of commitment (i.e. a proposal) before we live together?

[Thornton]

Sorry if I misread this, but I don't get it. The way I read this is, he does not want to live together because it's too soon in your relationship. So why would you be "giving in" by living with him before you are engaged??

 

He isn't ready to live together right now, but when he is ready, he expects us to live together without any commitment. I'm not happy with that at all.

 

The major worry is this. He isn't ready to live together despite having dated for a year and a half (The fact that I don't actually want to live together before engagement is irrelevant here). So I'm thinking: If he isn't even ready to live together, he sure as hell isn't going to propose in the foreseeable future! And if it takes him a couple years to feel comfortable with something as uncommitted as living together, then I could be waiting god knows how many years for him to be comfortable with a serious commitment such as marriage. I'm not prepared to move in with him until he's ready for marriage, so it seems like I could end up waiting a helluva long time... if he would even agree to marry me without living together, which he says he won't.

[Thornton]

Neither one of you is being unreasonable, you just have differing/incompatible expectations of how relationships proceed.

Yeah, you're telling me! My mom would have a heart attack if I moved in with some guy without at least being engaged, and family members and neighbors would gossip, and my mom would be made to feel ashamed. My dad would probably never talk to me again. I can't do that to them.

 

Also like I said, I'd prefer to have some stability before doing a serious thing like cohabiting, so I'd want to at least be engaged. I don't want to end up cohabiting in the long term and waiting years for a proposal which may never come, and I don't want to give my all to a guy and then have him walk away and leave a huge mess. Honestly I don't even feel like I could give my all to a guy if we weren't committed, which would have a negative effect on the relationship even working out.

[Spark1111]

Well, I'm going to go out on a limb here, maybe, but I think you should get very busy with your own life; not be so available on those one or two nights a week he deigns to visit you; and start to think about opening up your options to YES, maybe even start to date other men. Tell him so, is you decide to do it.

 

He seems comfortable, waaaaaay too comfortable with the relationship as it is, and not in the hot pursuit of you as I think a young man in love should be. The fact that he is not pushing for a commitment from YOU is not a good sign IMO.

 

If he will not commit to you formally without living with you, and you do NOT want to live with him without a formal engagement, well you a pretty much at an impasse forever there, don't you think?

 

He is afraid of commitment. How long do you test-drive the car before deciding to buy it? 30 minutes?

 

Value YOU, and your life, and focus on you and get busy. Stop waiting for this man who is not pursuing you to be your future.

 

You are settling and you should not be doing that. You deserve better; a man who wants to spend all his time with you and wants to commit to you for life.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

My girlfriends say why would he buy the cow if he's getting the milk for free? I read some articles online that said people who live together are more likely to get divorced later on. Plus I think it's really starting our relationship off on the wrong foot if we move in together without any commitment and just see how it goes, with the assumption that it's just a try out and either of us might walk away.

 

I'd much prefer if we were committed to our relationship before we took a big step like living together and joining our lives. Not saying we have to be married, but I'd at least like to be engaged and be pretty sure that we plan to stay together. Maybe get engaged and set a rough wedding date for a couple years time, and then move in together for those two years while we save for the wedding, and work out all the kinks before we actually marry. But he says absolutely no way, he has to have a trial run before he'll even consider committing to me. I'm a person, not a kitchen appliance that comes with a "love it or get your money back" guarantee!

 

So my second question is: Is it totally unreasonable to want some sort of commitment before we take a big step like moving in together? Like an engagement or something? Or am I being unfair? Should I totally give in and just live with him even though it's not what I really want, just cuz he says "that's how everyone does it?"

 

Thanks in advance guys

 

Edited to add: We're 28 so not exactly college kids, and not too young for commitment.

 

 

Your strong implication is that you are already giving him the milk for free, so the part about buying the cow does not relate to this. Nextly, the data relating to people who live together being more likely to divorce later... is more like a self-fulfilling prophecy than real data that you can craft your life around.

 

For example, IF you merely surveyed persons who asked their partners to live together before engagement or marriage, THEY TOO would have the same rate of higher divorce rates later. It has nothing to do with ACTUALLY cohabitating under the same roof. It isn't like, say, living in some small town for 8 years during the 1960's and then coming to learn later that an inordinately high percentage of people from the neighborhood there went on to have cancer (likely from radiation, or some factory output) later.

 

(concisely: "higher divorce rates in the mentioned cases do NOT result directly FROM living together". Those rates are consistently high among persons of the mindset to do so (- likely thinking it no big deal) ).

 

I understand your "preference"... and I understand his "preference" too... and right now, HE is more likely to know a future divorce than you are (perhaps slightly... and perhaps more). AT the point at which you consent TO live with him before engagement... then your likelihood of future divorce becomes effectively the same as his {no matter what that probability actually IS}.

 

The dye has already been cast... you're now just learning (or soon to learn) on which side you're going to land.

 

 

If life was just one big 'interesting experiment' and were it not so much fun to give your milk away... THEN a reasonable move would be to hold-out firmly, effectively demanding a commitment (or even marriage) before moving in with him, or any other guy. IF HE proved to be so into you that he was willing to wait, and wait, (and go against his expressed thoughts on the matter)... THEN he would be more likely to be a lifetime partner than is the random guy.

 

IF instead he kicked you to the curb because he didn't want to wait, then you'd learn his true colors, and would have a better bet in the future person who would wait.

 

But I promise you that it won't be the shared dishwashing chores, the brillo pads, the scouring of the shared bathroom, and the shared postal address which will have anything directly to do with CAUSING a higher probability of divorce later.

 

(it is perfectly possible that you are BOTH, already, the in-it-for-a-lifetime sorts, and that you could go the whole 9 yards even after (gasp!) cohabiting before engagement)

[Thornton]

Yes, I'm aware that it's people of the cohabiting mindset who have a higher divorce rate, and that cohabiting itself doesn't necessarily lead to divorce if the two people concerned would have married anyways.

 

Let me explain it another way: I'm rapidly approaching 30 and I don't want to wait till my mid/late thirties to get married, especially because by that time I'm likely to have trouble conceiving a child. I see many women in cohabiting relationships which drag on for years, and that's the last thing I want - I've seen too many women get the short end of the stick in those relationships. I think if I move in with my bf, he'll get comfortable and take me for granted, and marriage and children will never happen - he'll either leave me when it's too late for me to marry someone else, or he will marry me but there'll be a crazy last minute rush for a baby cuz we marry after 35.

 

I guess I just don't want to put all my eggs in one basket by moving in together, cuz then I'm effectively locked into the relationship and waiting for a proposal - the ball is in his court and I'm powerless. If we live separately I'm much more free to walk away if he shows no signs of commitment within a couple years, and also not living together might hopefully motivate him to marry me, as he isn't going to get a live-in relationship with me any other way.

 

He thinks I'm unreasonable for not wanting to live with him - maybe he senses that he isn't going to get something for nothing, and would have to commit if he wants the benefits of living with me. But it seems like we're at an impasse because he says he won't marry without living together, and I say I won't live together without marriage. Maybe he's just trying to guilt me into giving myself away for free? Or maybe he's just emotionally immature and isn't ready for a serious relationship

[findingnemo]

Thornton,

 

I'll give you another perspective from my culture (Africa). By the time two people live together, there's an understanding and an expectation that they'll get married. Our society doesn't favor co-habiting in any form without commitment. The couple must show a serious willingliness to legally commit by visiting both sets of parents and informing them of their plans. While having a wedding costs money and may not be possible in the near future, the couple must have a clear plan for it.

 

In your case, there is no clear understanding or even an expectation to marry. In Africa, people say a woman who moves in with her man without a formal commitment has gone to cook and clean for free. Obviously things are a bit different in the US. But the point is this. Why act like a W without being a W? Why take on a make believe situation? That's what it is. The fact that you want a commitment and he doesn't should be reason enough for you to consider finding another partner.

 

He is not ready and I wonder if you are based on the fact that you'd like a commitment from someone who isn't willing to commit. We sometimes think we should have something that may prove to be bad for us when we get it. Enjoy your single life. Committing is not a piece of cake and requires a lot of input from both parties. Find someone who loves you so much that he wants to spend the rest of life with you and whom you love equally.

[in_absentia]

I wouldn't say that someone moving in without engagement is moving in to cook and clean for free, as in my culture (UK) it's more normal for both partners to share the housework, stuff around the home etc. So the woman is benefiting just as much as the man. But it really does depend on where you both feel your relationship is going. In our case we moved in after 3 months because we wanted to be together all the time, but both want engagement and marriage in the future (engagement in around three years most likely, which is fine for me (we're 23 and 26). My bf said he doesn't feel comfortable proposing until he has a good job and can support a family as he'd feel really wrong asking my dad for my hand without being able to provide, and we both see marriage as the step before we start trying for a family. When he was in the Navy and earning good money he told me after a few weeks that he'd marry me tomorrow if he could (which I admit shocked me somewhat). But after he dropped out to be around me after my mother died marriage has gone much further into the future for us until we are in the right place financially, as he is working a minimum wage job which studying on the evenings for a career in a well paid profession, and I'm studying for qualifications for my future career too while working a poorly paid job that I'm not interested in. If it were free I'd marry him tomorrow because I love him and I'm sure we're for keeps, but nor am I particularly fussed about marriage yet. I've had a terribly rough few years with work problems, bereavement, poor health etc. and right now I'm just really happy to be able to share my life on a daily basis with this amazing man. But he knows it's what I want some day and that I'd find a new relationship if it didn't materialise after say 5 years.

 

Until then, I'm more than happy to live together without a ring. Sure one or either of us could just up and leave if we wanted to, but engagement or marriage don't stop that from happening at all! It's harder to break the committment and requires divorce but there's still nothing to stop either of you from disappearing when things get tough. This way we get to experience living together, building a life together, working out the kinks before the day we decide to get married and start a family. Anf that's just fantastic by me.

 

It sounds like you're being really sensible Thornton and thinking about what you want for your future (marriage and kids) and being realistic about the fact that you want a child and don't want to leave it too late. To be honest what I'd suggest is that you make yourself less available, as the other poster said. Maybe you could discuss making it non-exclusive and date around, date people until you find a guy who is on the same timescale as you regarding marriage and children, I'm sure there are plenty of 30 year old men who are ready to settle down. You may hate the thought of your bf dating other people too but he doesn't sound like much of a catch, he's clearly not desparate to pin you down and make you his which is exactly how my ex was, and it wore thin really quickly. Value yourself and realise you are worth going after what you want!

Edited November 28, 2011 by in_absentia

[Thornton]

In your case, there is no clear understanding or even an expectation to marry.

Exactly why I don't want to move in with him unless we're engaged.

 

He is not ready and I wonder if you are based on the fact that you'd like a commitment from someone who isn't willing to commit.

I've been ready for commitment for a number of years. The problem is that none of the decent men I've dated want to commit to me. I'd like a commitment from the man I love, who has claimed (for over a year) to love me. I'm not asking for marriage right this second, but I think he should at least be pursuing me and considering some sort of future. If he isn't, that suggests I've been completely misled about his feelings for me.

[Nikki82]

Sounds like you already know your answer. And it sounds like you see red flags of him never taking your relationship to the next step.

 

I will, however, disagree on the whole cohabitation is not a commitment. The post someone put about a ring being a "deposit" for a "contract" sounds so terrible. And don't tell me that marriage is a commitment, because then how do you explain all the divorces?!

 

The biggest thing is to not lose yourself or become dependent on someone.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

Yes, I'm aware that it's people of the cohabiting mindset who have a higher divorce rate, and that cohabiting itself doesn't necessarily lead to divorce if the two people concerned would have married anyways.

 

Let me explain it another way: I'm rapidly approaching 30 and I don't want to wait till my mid/late thirties to get married, especially because by that time I'm likely to have trouble conceiving a child. I see many women in cohabiting relationships which drag on for years, and that's the last thing I want - I've seen too many women get the short end of the stick in those relationships. I think if I move in with my bf, he'll get comfortable and take me for granted, and marriage and children will never happen - he'll either leave me when it's too late for me to marry someone else, or he will marry me but there'll be a crazy last minute rush for a baby cuz we marry after 35.

 

I guess I just don't want to put all my eggs in one basket by moving in together, cuz then I'm effectively locked into the relationship and waiting for a proposal - the ball is in his court and I'm powerless. If we live separately I'm much more free to walk away if he shows no signs of commitment within a couple years, and also not living together might hopefully motivate him to marry me, as he isn't going to get a live-in relationship with me any other way.

 

He thinks I'm unreasonable for not wanting to live with him - maybe he senses that he isn't going to get something for nothing, and would have to commit if he wants the benefits of living with me. But it seems like we're at an impasse because he says he won't marry without living together, and I say I won't live together without marriage. Maybe he's just trying to guilt me into giving myself away for free? Or maybe he's just emotionally immature and isn't ready for a serious relationship

 

 

Wow, this is really good... and you have every right to that line of reasoning. I, with my most recent post, just wanted to make sure that we were on the same wavelength.

 

You have every right to those feelings, and they sound very rational... although I would see yourself as having more time than you seeeeeeem to perceive yourself to have. I have a dear friend who is 31 and who has never really had a hint of any post-school relationship, but I know she dreams of kids and the white picket fence. I'm still fully faithful that she'll get her opportunity for that.

 

Maybe less pressure on yourSELF will inspire less pressure on your surroundings.

 

Your logic is quite sound, I will admit.

[Spark1111]

He sounds like one of those guys that's going to fight any type of REAL commitment until he's 40 or so. You see alot of these guys on the dating sites - 45 or 50 years old with 5 and 6 year old kids because they were too selfish in their younger years and wanted to "wait" to start a family. ROFL - you'd be amazed at how many of them there are out there, wondering why women their age don't want to date them and deal with their toddlers. Who the hell wants to be 50 years old with a 4 year old kid?

 

If this guy has been with you for a year and a half and he's still dragging his feet and wants to keep the status quo for as long as he possibly can, than you've picked one whose life goals aren't a match with yours.

 

I agree! Thorton, you are settling for someone who may tell you he loves you, but his actions are not matching his words.

 

He seems complacent and adrift, and why you are waiting for him to commit to you just boggles the mind.

 

He should be chasing you for commitment because he does not want to lose you to another. He should want to provide, protect and profess his love for you.

 

He should not be coming over twice a week.

 

He should be trying to see and speak with you all the time.

 

I think you need to widen your horizons. You seem to know what you want. How long do you intend to Wait?