Argument over Going Out

[Big Paperclip]

Hello all,

 

I'm writing here to seek advice on how to negotiate an argument I'm having with my other half. First thing I need to do is give you some back story:

 

When we first got together, we were both in a really good place, emotionally. We'd both been depressed for the preceding year, had only just discovered the drug Ecstasy and had started taking it. We both had a new lease of life and were riding the wave.

 

It turned out that, in addition to this, we had a lot in common, and we settled down to a relationship. He was 27 at the time, I was 20.

 

I think because of my youth, I was terribly keen to be the perfect girlfriend. You know the stuff, be attentive, go to all the stuff he wants to go to, listen well, don't be bossy, all that shebang. I realise now that it's better to be assertive sometimes, but I didn't realise at the time and am now paying for the mistake.

 

Mike has always liked clubbing, especially techno, and over the years we've gone clubbing a lot. But the scene doesn't attract me like it used to; it's old news for me. Just going again and again is feeling repetitive.

 

About 4 or 5 years ago, Mike started getting the midweek blues from Ecstasy. It started with just being grumpy on Mondays. Then it stretched to Tuesdays as well. Then Wednesdays... until he was getting it for the whole week after a Friday night session. And it got more intense, too. He wouldn't touch the stuff now because of the intense depression it puts him into.

 

But he loved the positive effects of the drug as much as I did. To counter the problem, he researched supplements and tried a few before settling on St. John's Wort, which seemed to help a little. When the E's after-effects became intolerable even with supplements, he tried a few legal alternatives, and we eventually discovered BZP.

 

We had a conversation once about this, that if he got bored of clubbing, would I go off him? I said absolutely not - and I was being honest. We've got far more going for us than just recreational drugtaking and music!

 

BZP is okay to me, and to date I don't get the midweek blues. But it doesn't feel the same as E, and I'm now thoroughly bored of the clubbing game. There's hardly anything left in it for me. I miss E and have fond memories of it, but if he can't take it, I won't either. Integral to the drug was the opportunity to bond deeply with him. So I leave it in the past.

 

Now, for the current argument.

 

Mike booked a night out to see Orbital (for those of you who don't know, they're massive in the dance music genre. Old veterans. It's the equivalent of going to see The Stone Roses, but for techno) on Wednesday just gone. We'd just come back from a walking holiday that had left me pretty knackered, and I came back to a heavy workload at work, all the heavier because I work for a small family business and my mum, who runs the office, doesn't know many of the basics of running an office, such as moving old emails into a different folder so that her manager doesn't have to go through 150 of the things to work out what's been dealt with and what hasn't.

 

Anyway, the point is, I felt tired after a heavy couple of days back at work. The whole of Wednesday I thought about this, trying to work out how I could say, 'I don't really want to go out' without upsetting him. I tried to get in the mindframe to go anyway, but the idea alone was enough to make me angry.

 

Anyway, it turned out that I got home and he was really looking forward to it. I'd eventually worked out that, even if I said I didn't want to go, if it mattered that much to him then he could go, so it wasn't that big a deal, was it?

 

But when I said I didn't have the energy, he got annoyed, said nothing else while we ate dinner, and then asked me whether I wanted to go again at the end of dinner. I still didn't feel up for it, so he cold-shouldered me for the next couple of hours.

 

Eventually he decided to go anyway. When he came back home a few hours later, he cold-shouldered me again.

 

The next day - Thursday, yesterday - he carried on his sulk. When I came home from work, I hoped we'd be able to talk about it, that maybe he'd realise that I'd felt worn out and that I hadn't refused to go to annoy him, and that all would be well. Nope. He only really has eyes for the fact that I almost stopped him from going to see his favourite band. To be honest, I didn't know Orbital were his favourite. I might have thought his favourite performers were any number of techno acts. He's not identified a firm favourite before now. So maybe they are his favourite, or maybe he's exaggerating for effect, I'm not sure.

 

So we argued over it yesterday evening, and at one point he made a cheap jab at me by accusing me of needing drugs to have fun. As I explained above in the backstory, that's true to an extent, but he's made far more effort to keep taking drugs than I've needed to.

 

So now we have a situation where, this morning, he's sulking at me again. I'm not sure how to move forward from this. I feel like bringing the needing drugs jab up with him, but suspect that would just detract from the real issue, which I think is me not wanting to do the same thing as him. There is more information about all of this, but I think this is already a bit tl;dr, so if anyone has questions, please ask!

 

Thank you for those of you who've taken the time to read all of this. I really appreciate it.

[jmargel]

You two have more problems than a petty agrument over going out to a club. It's the drugs that are going to do the relationship and yourselves in. Ectasy really messes with your head and like any drug you will never get that high like when you first took it. You need to take more and more to obtain that same high, which rapildly advances the negatives this drug has.

 

Before you know it, you become a zombie.

 

You guys are already trying alternatives to offset/replace this drug which is a big sign that you are in need of drug counseling. Do this now before you lose everyrhing. This sort of thing sneaks up on you and you don't even realize it, however I am on the outside looking in and can already see how this is affecting both of you just from your few paragraphs that you wrote.

 

The club scene is known for this sort of drug use, so if he's serious about you and the relationship it's going to take a lifestyle change for him. Not only to quit the drug but to leave the club scene. It's like being an alcoholic. You can't drink EVER, if you are recovering. Not one sip. It's a lifestyle change.

 

Hope the other posters on here don't bash you about the drug use, just know that you really need to change this quick.

[Big Paperclip]

You two have more problems than a petty agrument over going out to a club. It's the drugs that are going to do the relationship and yourselves in. Ectasy really messes with your head and like any drug you will never get that high like when you first took it. You need to take more and more to obtain that same high, which rapildly advances the negatives this drug has.

 

Actually, we both stopped taking it long ago. We've both also found that we didn't need to take more and more to get the same high, and that the same dose each time was perfectly sufficient.

 

Before you know it, you become a zombie.

 

3 years of E use and that didn't happen to either of us.

 

You guys are already trying alternatives to offset/replace this drug which is a big sign that you are in need of drug counseling. Do this now before you lose everyrhing. This sort of thing sneaks up on you and you don't even realize it, however I am on the outside looking in and can already see how this is affecting both of you just from your few paragraphs that you wrote.

 

Or could it be that you are hyper-sensitive to drug stories and you didn't realise I'd included that part of the story because that's how we first got into clubbing together and that he used it as ammo against me? The drugs aren't the issue I've written about here.

 

Could you possibly re-read? The core issue is his hypersensitivity to me not wanting to do the same thing as him.

[jmargel]

I can see that you are still in defense mode so it's going to be impossible to get anything through to you.

 

You are taking BZP, its dopamine and serotonin agonist mechanism of action is believed to be similar to MDMA (Ectasy) and the effects produced by BZP are comparable to those produced by amphetamine. Adverse effects have been reported following its use including acute psychosis, renal toxicity, and seizures.

 

Read more about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzylpiperazine

 

When you are on this stuff you are not 'yourself'. Good chance this drug is a good portion of your problem.

[Big Paperclip]

I said before and will say again, the problem I wrote about was that of a disagreement between me and him, it isn't about the drugs. Last time I took any BZP was about a month ago, last time he took any was perhaps 6 months ago. I repeat: drugs are not the central issue here.

 

Please re-read the OP. Try from 'Now, for the current argument' onwards if you're really serious about helping.

[jmargel]

So basically he wanted to go see a band, you didn't and he got upset. He went and did his thing. When the situation came up, he said that either out of upsetment or concern that he thinks you need drugs to have a fun time, which you do admit to.

 

You need to take a step back here, and realize what the issue is. Look at it as a weed (no, not that type). This argument is only a leaf on this weed, whereas the main 'issue' in the root of the weed. Unless you get to the root of the issue, these petty agruments are going to continue and more often.

 

Drugs, no matter how little you take them are a huge influence in a relationship. Taking BZP every now and then is still drug abuse. Are you positive he's not taking it anymore? He could just be hiding his addiction. Don't assume anything.

 

There's also a reason why you two do these drugs, look back on your past and his. Normally taking drugs is a way to escape from reality and there's usually a reason why you want to escape.

[Big Paperclip]

So basically he wanted to go see a band, you didn't and he got upset. He went and did his thing. When the situation came up, he said that either out of upsetment or concern that he thinks you need drugs to have a fun time, which you do admit to.

 

Yes, that's pretty much the extent of it, except for the extent to which I admit to using drugs to have fun. My point with all that back story was that he's chased the drug experience far more than I have, therefore his comment about me needing drugs for fun is unfounded.

 

You need to take a step back here, and realize what the issue is. Look at it as a weed (no, not that type). This argument is only a leaf on this weed, whereas the main 'issue' in the root of the weed. Unless you get to the root of the issue, these petty agruments are going to continue and more often.

 

This is what I've been saying since the beginning. I know that having a small tiff over going/not going to a club isn't important. If that's all it was really about, why would I bother making this thread? I know there's a bigger, underlying problem. So yes, I have looked at the bigger picture.

 

Drugs, no matter how little you take them are a huge influence in a relationship. Taking BZP every now and then is still drug abuse. Are you positive he's not taking it anymore? He could just be hiding his addiction. Don't assume anything.

 

He has no problem eating, his weight remains steady, he has an ongoing interest in issues surrounding self-sufficiency (which we're planning on getting into over the next decade or so), he's doing well enough at work that his colleagues keep asking him for help over various things (something I don't think I'd hear about if he was on BZP - the stuff isn't good for memory)... he's not exhibiting any signs of addiction that I can see. I highly doubt it, although of course, he is a separate human being from me, so there's always a 0.01% doubt. But I really do doubt it.

 

There's also a reason why you two used to do these drugs,

 

Fixed.

 

look back on your past and his. Normally taking drugs is a way to escape from reality and there's usually a reason why you want to escape.

 

It was. He felt isolated as a result of his upbringing and that led to depression, which in turn led to his drug use. I pretty much had the same, although my childhood was punctuated with pretty nasty arguments between my parents.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Read the post and did read it carefully and I too think it is the drugs that are causing the issue. That or you grew up and he hasn't. If I read correctly you were 20 and he was 27 when you met and you have moved on and he hasn't. Isn't he a little old for the scene (mid 30's now)?

 

Seems you have matured and he has not. Is it the drugs, I am no expert, but even though you are younger, he is much more immature then you.

 

In addition the symptoms (or his actions) seems to indicate he is still doing drugs.

 

The fact he acted like he did is quite sad....

[jmargel]

Well it just seems like you two are on different levels. You are wanting to push away from that scene and move onto more mature things and he still wants to party it up.

 

I've seen extremely mature 21 year olds and very immature 45 year olds so it's not necessarily all due to age. Thing is, you can't change him. He has to want to change himself. And to do that, especially since he has a bad past is to goto counseling. You can suggest it to him, but you can't force him. What you can do in the meantime is set strict boundaries on what you will or won't tolerate. If he crosses those boundaries then he faces consequences.

 

What does he want for his future with you? Where does he see himself in 5 years? Where do you see yourself? Those are a few questions that need to be answered. Often when someone goes through abuse at a young age they have difficultly in dealing with certain situations. You have to becareful this doesn't turn into an adult-child relationship. Often an abused spouse is the child, running off, disrespecting and living the 'immature' lifestyle while the 'adult' in the relationship is running after their child playing detective on 'where they are at, who they are interacting with (cheating)'. Unless he deals with his core problems you unfortunetly will.

[quankanne]

to me, it sounds like he believes that y'all cannot connect except through clubbing, and to a minor degree, drugs ... so that when you turned down the opportunity to go clubbing, you were turning down a central part of your relationship with him. So he sulks and throws crap in your face about your former drug habit.

 

you two need to get to counseling to learn how to effectively communicate with each other, or he's going to turn into a pouty kid every time he feels thwarted by you!

[Big Paperclip]

Well, to let you all know, we resolved the problem ourselves.

 

When I got home on Friday, I went to unlock the front door to get in as usual, but he came through to unlock it and greet me with a hug. We had an evening just relaxing together, not mentioning the incident and getting on a keel of, 'we're still eachother's friends'.

 

The next day, we went for a walk after chores and talked through the whole thing. I let him go first to tell me how it all felt to him and, actually, because the defences were down, it wasn't too bad to listen to. Once I was sure he'd said all he needed to, I brought up my feelings about clubbing. He listened just fine.

 

We eventually worked out that he doesn't like the idea of clubbing alone partly - but crucially - because it's unwise to walk home alone. I suggested a taxi, and maybe he'll do that on occasion, but we'll see. We agreed also that it's the old formula of clubbing that I'm fed up of, not the DJ acts themselves, so daytime festivals and offbeat concerts are still fine.

 

I finally brought up the drugs jab and he recognised that wasn't really a well-judged thing to say. He feels that I need drugs to enjoy clubbing, and to an extent that's true, but BZP is subjective stuff and you need to be having fun already before you feel any real effect off it. We have been to club-type things on occasion where I only drank and had no drugs and enjoyed myself there. So we finally came up with the conclusion that my enjoyment of clubs is dependent on the, erm, club. But drugs amplify that. So they're a plus, but not necessary.

 

I thought that would be the end of the issue and it sounded okay to me, but we later brought it up again and realised something that made us both facepalm. For those of you not living in the UK, I'll explain: over the last couple of years, the government has put new laws in that have affected clubland. One is staggering closing times for pubs. This was intended to make it so that pubs didn't all throw their customers out on the street at the same time (previously 11.30pm), and there'd therefore be less late-night fighting. The plus side of an 11.30 kickout was that the clubs all got a huge influx of clubbers at around midnight. So a good, busy atmosphere was pretty much guaranteed. Not anymore.

 

The other thing is the smoking ban. Before, people were allowed to smoke in public places, including clubs. So the club would almost always be full. Now, smokers have to go outside to do their thing. The result is that the outside smoking area is normally packed, while the crowd inside tends to be very thin, except if there's somebody really exceptionally good behind the turntables.

 

All of this means that, rather than seeing a club in terms of '5 hours of clubbing', it's actually more like, '3 hours of waiting for the dancefloor to fill up, one hour of [insert guest DJ here], and 1 hour of people leaving and the crowd getting thinner... and thinner... and thinner.

 

Before the smoking ban, most clubs wouldn't let you back in if you bought a ticket and then went out. That doesn't happen anymore now that people want to go outside to smoke. This means that, to prove you've paid for entry, you get an ink stamp on the back of your hand in most clubs now. This means that we'll be able to build a night differently: go and do something fun for several hours before the club opens, go and pay entry and get our hand stamps when it opens, bugger off and get a few drinks while it fills up, and then come in for the busy part of the night!

 

Problem sorted! I have to say, I'm genuinely happy about the above, so that's what we're going to do! Why didn't we think of it this way before? But first, we're going to have a bit of an amnesty - 3 months with no night-time clubbing. That was his suggestion.

 

Oh, and I asked him if there was anything I could do to make up for missing Orbital with him and at first he said there was nothing. But there's a daytime festival in London in a few weeks and guess who's headlining? Yep!

[stace79]

I said before and will say again, the problem I wrote about was that of a disagreement between me and him, it isn't about the drugs. Last time I took any BZP was about a month ago, last time he took any was perhaps 6 months ago. I repeat: drugs are not the central issue here.

 

Please re-read the OP. Try from 'Now, for the current argument' onwards if you're really serious about helping.

 

You need to get off the drugs. Personally, I think you're better off breaking up, because your whole relationships was built on the foundation of recreational drug use. That is no way to build a solid, mutually beneficial relationship.

[Nemoralis]

I just wanted to say...I really relate to your post. My guy and I go to the same club almost every Saturday. He's HUGE into techno as well (got me into it) and used to do X at the club before we met. I used to do it to, but only with close friends at small parties. X can truly help you connect with people you already trust.

 

But eventually it does get old. My guy and I are going to the club less and less now, which makes the times we DO go that much more fun. We don't do X anymore (he's tired of it and it just doesn't work for me anymore).

 

Recreational drugs CAN be used responsibly, and they can help you bring you closer to the one you love. Some of you may not agree with this, but is true for those of us who have experienced it. You can tout all day about how drugs ruin people's lives and whatnot, but it's not exactly true. PEOPLE ruin their own lives.

 

There's a reason X was used as a tool for marriage counseling back in the day.

 

It sounds like you and your guy have a great relationship. He probably was just a little hurt and disappointed that you weren't going to go with him to a show that he'd been looking forward to. I know when my guy doesn't want to go out with me to something I'm looking forward to, I feel a little disappointed because he's my favorite person in the world and I want him there!

 

No big deal. I hope me and my guy are a lot like you when we're older. As a side note...you two ever tried psychedelics? A few nights tripping on shrooms with my boyfriend showed us things about ourselves we could NEVER have imagined. We still talk about those nights with awe.

 

Good luck to ya.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

You deserve each other.... It was a non-starter.... You gave us this long story, revolving around drugs and clubbing and this ridiculous silly fight based on the fact you did not want to go as you were tired and he pouted.

 

The exciting reconciliation post had me on the edge of my seat, as it was just riveting and full of deep emotion and passion.... Wow, I wish all people were that lucky to have a relationship as meaningful and deep as you two.

 

If that is the most of your problems then you should be thrilled and you deserve each other.....

[Big Paperclip]

 

No big deal. I hope me and my guy are a lot like you when we're older. As a side note...you two ever tried psychedelics? A few nights tripping on shrooms with my boyfriend showed us things about ourselves we could NEVER have imagined. We still talk about those nights with awe.

 

Good luck to ya.

 

Thanks for your positive input, Nemoralis!

 

We have tried psychedelics on occasion, but the problem is that he gets strong stomach cramps every time he takes anything psychadelic. We're not sure why, I suspect it's more in the mind than anything for him, but it's a non-starter, I think.

 

I'd like to take it and we did take a dose of mushrooms together once. That was fun - we spent ages talking about how amazing spoons were, and he got a hallucination where anything organic looked more distorted the closer he put it to his face. Good fun and something I'd like to try further, but if he's not into it I'm not up for it.

 

@Toodamnpragmatic: I can't quite work out whether your being sarcastic or not, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on this and say thanks for the compliment.

[giotto]

@Toodamnpragmatic: I can't quite work out whether your being sarcastic or not, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on this and say thanks for the compliment.

 

Unfortunately, I think he was serious...

 

EDIT

 

well, unfortunately for you... that's what I meant...

[Cool Hand Jay]

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