SoulSearch_CO Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 I've heard this before. On this board, but then also other places. I've read and heard of people asking someone they are dating if they have EVER cheated on a SO and if the answer is "yes," they walk away from that person - positive that they WILL cheat again. Would their reasons and level of contrition make any difference in your judgment of them? The reason I ask is this. I was in a 4-year marriage where he REPEATEDLY cheated. Now, I don't mean physically. All the stuff he did was online and/or phone. He also had some EAs that I'm aware of. He always got caught. He kept doing it. Nearing my breaking point with him, 4 years of heartache and emotional abuse and lies...I made a choice. Partially, it was to lash back at him, but also partly it was to make MYSELF get off my ass and get out of the relationship. But anyway - I ended up cheating on him. I met up with a guy and had a physical encounter. I was only able to do it once before the guilt ate me alive and I told my H. (And by the way - we were sleeping in separate bedrooms at this point already...and had spoken of divorce.) He was clearly hurt. But you know what? He gave me permission to keep doing whatever I wanted. Which was truly the point at which I said I was done with him - to be okay with sharing his W like that just made me realize how value-less I was to him. I will say there is ONE good thing that came out of that event. He told me that he had been cheated on in his first marriage and ever since then had been cheating on every woman he had had in his life...but not a one of them cheated on him. By having it occur in our marriage, he FINALLY saw the damage and hurt that he was causing. Anyway - I'm not looking for anybody to validate me. I'm at peace with what I did. I'm not proud of it (the only part I'm proud of is reclaiming my power). If you want to bash on me for cheating, go for it. It's not a weak point in my self-worth due to the fact that I feel I paid the price, I did a lot of self-work, and I have forgiven myself. Please try to stick to the purpose of the post. I only gave my story as an example - not as the point of the post. So back to the original question - would you discard a possible relationship with somebody if they admitted to cheating in their past - regardless of their reasons or level of contrition? Link to post Share on other sites
ADF Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 No, former cheaters do not ALWAYS cheat. Cats don't ALWAYS kill mice, either. But the overwhelming majority do. The best guide to what someone is likely to do in the future is what they have done in the past. It isn't perfect, but it is the best predictor available. Link to post Share on other sites
Crow9726 Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 I was discussing this with a friend of mine this morning. It was prompted by a segment on a news show about liars always being liars and cheaters always being cheaters. He took the side of those who claim it can always be just a one time thing...while I waded through a myriad of thoughts and emotions. In essence...to me...while someone who lies may not always do it and may have been able to stop...under the right set of circumstances they will lie again since they seem predisposed to do so. Cheating is the same way. Once someone has crossed that line at some point in their life...if facing the same or equivalent set of circumstances in the future...chances are they will do the same thing over again. Liars and cheaters have already proven their propensity to lie and/or cheat. To expect anything less is pure folly. While they might not do it again...they will always have the ability to do so and one cannot be shocked or surprised if they revert to past behavior. Just my 2 cents... Link to post Share on other sites
PandorasBox Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 "Past behavior ALWAYS indicative of future behavior?" Well, I've always heard that saying too. I guess it could be true in many situations. HOWEVER, I also believe that people can change, if they want to of course. I have a friends whose husband cheated on her once years ago. After counseling sessions and them really wanting to work on things, they got through it, and to this day she says he hasn't cheated again. He he probably hasn't. The ones with the cheating records, as in lots of cheating in the past or even other things done alot and over and over again such as drugs, or abuse etc, those to me are the ones I would be more worried about and not as trustworthy of. However like I said people can change, if they want. Link to post Share on other sites
Bryanp Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 I think there is an exception to almost every rule. In your case and circumstances I would guess this is probably a one time thing for you and you will not do it again. Link to post Share on other sites
Space Ritual Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Unfortunately I would. I have been burned way too often and if my new SO told me that they had cheated in any previous relationship, it would be a total deal breaker for me. I'd walk out of their life without batting an eye. Maybe they wouldn't cheat on me, but after having it happen to me more than once I'm not taking that chance again. You could be the most wonderful person in every aspect to me, but if you have cheated even once, you are not worth the risk You can only predict the likelihood of someones future actions based on their past actions. Just like looking at a resume of a potential employee. Be that as it may, and it's true that some people who cheat do it just once. But one time is all it takes for me. Just the way I am. Link to post Share on other sites
Quest Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 There are people - like you - who might cheat once in their life, in very particular circumstances, and never do it again. But most people who cheat seem to do it again. They might change if they really want to and do a lot of work on themselves but to get to that place some sort of major internal shift in them would have to happen. That's rare. So, in general, unless I got the sense someone who admitted they'd cheated in the past had done it as a one-off or had since had a major change I was convinced of, I wouldn't continue a relationship with them. Link to post Share on other sites
Spoiled Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 During my several serious R prior to M, I cheated. But always thought, "Hey, I'm not M." My girlfriends knew I cheated but I never disclosed to men that I cheated in the past. Met my H and knew I would never cheat on him. Fastforward 13+ years later, 12 of which M, I made the choice to cheat. Link to post Share on other sites
Thornton Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I believe that if someone has cheated in a particular relationship, they will do it again. Obviously they're not happy in that relationship, so they cheat, and while in the same relationship they will probably continue to be unhappy and will continue to cheat. However if you take that person and put them into a different relationship with someone else, a happier and more loving relationship with which they are more satisfied, then that same person will not necessarily cheat again. Why? Because I believe that people usually cheat when they are unhappy in a relationship, so if you take a former cheater and give them a relationship that they are happy with, they will have no reason to cheat. I realise this doesn't apply to everyone - there are some people who just can't be satisfied with one partner and will cheat in every relationship - but in general most people only cheat when something is lacking in their current relationship, and they don't do it in a relationship that they're happy with. However, when it comes to admitting that you cheated in the past, you're putting ideas about cheating into your partner's mind... you're setting yourself up for a fall, because your partner will then assume that you will also cheat on them. So perhaps advertising your past as a cheater isn't the best way to go about things, particularly if you want to make a fresh start and don't intend to cheat again. On the other hand, a true cheater wouldn't tell you they were a cheater, because they wouldn't want to get your guard up - whereas someone who confesses to cheating in the past is being completely honest with you and doesn't intend to cheat again. So there are two ways to look at it, and I am undecided which approach would be best for you. Link to post Share on other sites
Crusoe Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I was once a spectacular alcoholic and went all the way to rock bottom. I dried up 16 years ago, but the thirst for some Buffalo is never far away and if a bottle is put infront of me it will disappear very quickly. I think for the serial cheat or long term affair person the situation is very similar. Despite what they say, they cannot truly be trusted to stay away from temptation. Whereas for the one off (for whatever reason) cheat, I think they are more akin to someone who once got fantastically drunk, hated the consequences and will never do it again. I bet there are a lot of people who go to their graves with only the one indiscretion to their name. Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Past behavior ALWAYS indicative of future behavior? Isn't the saying more along the lines of : Past behavior is the best PREDICTOR of future behavior ? and yes it is the best predictor... Link to post Share on other sites
JohnP82 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I've never been cheated on to my knowledge but I still would get out of a relationship with someone if I found out that they cheated in the past. I greatly despise cheaters. I have an acquaintance that cheated on his GF that I'm phasing out of my life currently. Link to post Share on other sites
only_human Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 (edited) I certainly think that as people get older they learn from all their past experiences - both positive and negative ones. Isn't that why when get older we say we wish we knew "back then" what we know now about life? Habitual cheaters may never change, but I believe there may be times when someone that has cheated in the past when "out of character" for them may have learned how to better cope with relationships, and can certainly be trusted again in future relationships. Edited November 1, 2009 by only_human Link to post Share on other sites
aerogurl87 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I wouldn't because I think it depends on the person who the other person is with on whether or not they will cheat. I say this from experience because although I cheated on my ex repeatedly (and he openly cheated on me emotionally pretty much from the get go), I never cheated on anyone else. Was it wrong? Yes, but at least I owned up to my mistakes. On the other hand, I would never cheat on my current boyfriend because he's a much better guy than my ex and treats me alot better. So I don't believe once a cheater, always a cheater. Unless of course the guy is just a bonafide player, then all bets are off. Link to post Share on other sites
BUENG1 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Isn't the saying more along the lines of : Past behavior is the best PREDICTOR of future behavior ? and yes it is the best predictor... He's got it right. Link to post Share on other sites
Author SoulSearch_CO Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 Isn't the saying more along the lines of : Past behavior is the best PREDICTOR of future behavior ? and yes it is the best predictor... Eh. Semantics. I think people understood what I meant. Link to post Share on other sites
bluestraps Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I have convincing evidence that supports my theory that a persons past behavior only sometimes indicates future behavior. My girlfriend cheated on me a total of 4 times and each time she expected our relationship to be over. The fourth time is the reason we are broke up now. But unfortunatly alot of our relationship stayed the same. I could have done some things diferently and she could have too. So I believe actualy that a person who cheats does so for a reason not because they will just naturaly do the same thing. If I do not respond to the needs of my mate then expect someonelse to do so. This does not make it right but each person deals with a relationship diferently. Say for instance, if my girlfriend told me I was not being romantic enough or not telling her know how special she is . Eventualy she will run across someone who pays her attention and she gets that urge. If I do not change the behavior she does'nt like, I can expect her to take action that fills her needs. I say people who cheat are flawed, stupid , selfish, have no standards morals or are cowards. I am not a cheater but aparently I dont learn from the past. Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 So back to the original question - would you discard a possible relationship with somebody if they admitted to cheating in their past - regardless of their reasons or level of contrition? If I found out someone has cheated, it would put me off big time. Lets say I was dating someone and they told me they had cheated in past relationships, I'd definitely let them know that it didn't sit well with me and that how would I know they wouldn't cheat on me. then the relationship would just naturally fizzle out for me and it would end soon after. Link to post Share on other sites
harmfulsweetz Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 It would always depend for me. I've cheated, I wouldn't ever do it again. I made a terrible choice. I wouldn't want that record to taint every relationship I may enter, granted, I'd expect them to be more wary of me, but people must remember that people change, it's not always so black and white. Link to post Share on other sites
AAlike Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Soul Search to be honest with you, I would be concerned if I were a potential suitor of yours and I heard your story...not because I would be concerned that you'd cheat on me in an otherwise good relationship - I get that you obviously were under extenuating circumstances and that your relationship was probably coming to a close anyway. my problem would be that you felt that you stuck around in a crappy situation for 4 years and needed to do this in order to "make yourself get off of your ass" - you say "after years of lying and abuse I made a choice" - which, unfortunately, was not to tell him to F off and leave, but was to stoop to his level. and the second and third paragraphs of your post really seem to be justifying this choice. That's the thing with cheating - I completely disagree with the analogy of it being like an addiction. I suppose that there are "serial cheaters", but I think that most of them are simply just scumbags, not really "addicted" to cheating. In most cases, however, people that have cheated have done so not because they just couldn't resist temptation, rather it is their way of "striking back" when their relationship begins to go sour or they feel unloved/underappreciated. The cheating itself is almost incidental - they do it to make a statement. It's the ultimate manifestation of passive-aggressive behavior, which has no place in relationships. and that would be my reservation about dating you - I wouldn't be thinking "oh god I can't leave her alone with a guy or who knows what would happen" - but I would be worried that if the relationship got difficult in any way (which 99.9% of them do) that your passive-aggressive behavior would show up in some way, whether cheating or otherwise, instead of you being able to stand up to me or confront me. Link to post Share on other sites
boldjack Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 SSC, when two people are starting a new relationship, they are trying to understand what makes their new SO tick. The majority of the information that they will get is necessarily about past experiences, preferences. After finding out about these past experiences or preferences, then the person has something to base their decision on, whether to continue the relationship, or end it. An example would be if one person really hates living in the country and the other wants to live in the country, it probably won't work. If you have cheated in the past, then I would explain the reasons why, to your new SO. If he/she excepts these reasons and chooses to continue, you are good to go. But I would make sure that he/she knows that it was a one-time thing , NEVER, EVER, to be repeated. Link to post Share on other sites
Author SoulSearch_CO Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 If I found out someone has cheated, it would put me off big time. Lets say I was dating someone and they told me they had cheated in past relationships, I'd definitely let them know that it didn't sit well with me and that how would I know they wouldn't cheat on me. then the relationship would just naturally fizzle out for me and it would end soon after. I've had other relationships where I had zero interest in cheating at all. It's not in my character. So what if it was ONE - not ALL of the ones they ever had? This was a one and only event. and that would be my reservation about dating you - I wouldn't be thinking "oh god I can't leave her alone with a guy or who knows what would happen" - but I would be worried that if the relationship got difficult in any way (which 99.9% of them do) that your passive-aggressive behavior would show up in some way, whether cheating or otherwise, instead of you being able to stand up to me or confront me. I totally hear what you're saying, AA, and thank you for being honest and sharing that. I didn't just "put up" with his behavior for 4 years without calling him on it. I put 4 years of busting my tail into this man with no results. It was my first (and only) marriage - I didn't want to admit defeat. So by the time I did what I did, I was utterly broken and defeated. I guess in my own mind, it was kind of like doing hard battle for a long time, realizing it was a complete waste of time, and committing suicide to get it over with - it was going to die anyway. But again - I do hear what you're saying and I appreciate your POV. Very interesting. Thanks. SSC, when two people are starting a new relationship, they are trying to understand what makes their new SO tick. The majority of the information that they will get is necessarily about past experiences, preferences. After finding out about these past experiences or preferences, then the person has something to base their decision on, whether to continue the relationship, or end it. An example would be if one person really hates living in the country and the other wants to live in the country, it probably won't work. If you have cheated in the past, then I would explain the reasons why, to your new SO. If he/she excepts these reasons and chooses to continue, you are good to go. But I would make sure that he/she knows that it was a one-time thing , NEVER, EVER, to be repeated. Agreed. I'm not worried about being rejected by a future SO. I was curious what the consensus was in general out of morbid curiosity (I don't know why - I seem to like being the cat that gets killed by curiosity). I've gotten to a point in my life where if a man is going to reject me for whatever reason, then there's a good reason for it - we're simply not compatible and I have no reason to feel bad about that. Link to post Share on other sites
Space Ritual Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Yes I would have to eject them from my life. I was cheated on 3 weeks before my wedding many years ago (which I had the added bonus of walking in on) and it affected me on ways I never imagined it would. But regardless, even if they tried to give me an explanation of circumstances of cheating I wouldn't listen to it. At that point in my mind, that person could never be fully trusted and I would not want to risk it. Excuses(much like opinions on internet forums..lol) are like rectums...everyone has one and they all stink. It took me nearly 20 years to be able to get to a point where I trusted a woman enough even become exclusive and I got burned a second time. So yeah if I actually posed that question to somebody I was interested in if the answer was yes I'd delete them from my life without batting an eye. I know that sounds downright sad but I refuse to risk getting burned a third time Link to post Share on other sites
Chicago_Guy Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I've heard this before. On this board, but then also other places. I've read and heard of people asking someone they are dating if they have EVER cheated on a SO and if the answer is "yes," they walk away from that person - positive that they WILL cheat again. Would their reasons and level of contrition make any difference in your judgment of them? The reason I ask is this. I was in a 4-year marriage where he REPEATEDLY cheated. Now, I don't mean physically. All the stuff he did was online and/or phone. He also had some EAs that I'm aware of. He always got caught. He kept doing it. Nearing my breaking point with him, 4 years of heartache and emotional abuse and lies...I made a choice. Partially, it was to lash back at him, but also partly it was to make MYSELF get off my ass and get out of the relationship. But anyway - I ended up cheating on him. I met up with a guy and had a physical encounter. I was only able to do it once before the guilt ate me alive and I told my H. (And by the way - we were sleeping in separate bedrooms at this point already...and had spoken of divorce.) He was clearly hurt. But you know what? He gave me permission to keep doing whatever I wanted. Which was truly the point at which I said I was done with him - to be okay with sharing his W like that just made me realize how value-less I was to him. I will say there is ONE good thing that came out of that event. He told me that he had been cheated on in his first marriage and ever since then had been cheating on every woman he had had in his life...but not a one of them cheated on him. By having it occur in our marriage, he FINALLY saw the damage and hurt that he was causing. Anyway - I'm not looking for anybody to validate me. I'm at peace with what I did. I'm not proud of it (the only part I'm proud of is reclaiming my power). If you want to bash on me for cheating, go for it. It's not a weak point in my self-worth due to the fact that I feel I paid the price, I did a lot of self-work, and I have forgiven myself. Please try to stick to the purpose of the post. I only gave my story as an example - not as the point of the post. So back to the original question - would you discard a possible relationship with somebody if they admitted to cheating in their past - regardless of their reasons or level of contrition? How exactly did your ex-husband cheat if nothing "physical" happened between he and another woman? Your story makes it sound like you slept with someone else, but he didn't. Link to post Share on other sites
Author SoulSearch_CO Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 How exactly did your ex-husband cheat if nothing "physical" happened between he and another woman? Your story makes it sound like you slept with someone else, but he didn't. Well, excuse me, but I consider it cheating when somebody talks sexual to other women online. Telling them he'd like to stick his c**k in her p***y and f**k her hard. I sense the undercurrent of your judgment that mine was OH so much worse. What a load. I know that with at least a few of these online women, they exchanged pictures, had webcam sessions where they were showing each other their goods, and they were trying to make plans to meet in person. I also got a recording of a very sexually explicit phone message that my XH left for a female that we used to work with. So explicit, in fact, that two of my friends that I let listen to it were trying not to vomit - almost feeling as if they'd seen him naked, it was so descriptive and filthy. Not to mention, CG, but I TOLD my XH about mine to try and fix it. He told me to carry on. I found out about his little escapades on my own and he still tried to lie about them after I found out. I made it VERY clear this was not okay with me and he carried on anyway. IMO, those are not things you share with people outside your marriage. Perhaps your opinion is different, but mine's not. Thanks, though. Link to post Share on other sites
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