Have no idea how this girl feels about me (we're both shy)

[PhilHarper]

I'm 31 she's 26. We've gone on what i would consider to be 3 ok dates, the last two ending in me dropping her off at her place and kissing goodbye.

 

The problem is we're both very shy. I have had social anxiety all my life and she is very noticeably introverted and shy and has talked about it. I can tell she's used to at least some awkwardness.

 

Originally I thought this was great. We both have a shared issue we can identify with and understand. However as the dates go on, the struggle to converse grows, the awkward moments pile up and move towards uncomfortable, the lack of physical intimacy extends, it just seems like my window of opportunity is vanishing.

 

To complicate this, when we first met via tinder, her texting was very sparse. I assumed she wasn't interested and I unmatched her. Then she found my Facebook and messaged me to say she was interested but had been working and couldnt chat.

 

Since then her texting had picked up after the first date. She's said she found me really cute and I feel like I was able to demonstrate some of my desirable qualities on our dates in the midst of the awkwardness. But still it's gone back down again. We text about once or twice a day, usually with me initiating. It feels like she might be cooling off.

 

So now im stuck. If I had to go with my gut I'd say she's certainly not head over heels. I've assumed her disinterest before and been wrong, but this time could be different. I'm very attracted to her, enjoy her company, I love the idea of dating someone who has my type of social anxiety, but don't yet know how i feel about her long term (for reasons that have nothing to do with shyness, I just don't know her well enough yet).

 

I'd love for us to be able to work together and come out of our shells and really get to know each other. I've speant the last 2 to 3 years working on improving my social skills. I've seen a therapist, done improv, speech groups, meditation, the list goes on. This would be part if that. But at the same time it seems like a big ask for someone I met on tinder and have only gone on 3 dates with. Maybe she's more inclined to just drop it and find someone outgoing to compliment her shyness.

 

She agreed to a 4th date, but I just don't know what to do, or how to play it.

[kassy]

You are getting ahead of yourself. Sounds like she really likes you, she tracked you down after you deleted her off tinder.

 

You bóth have anxiety. That's going to mean things likely go slow. But once you get established in a relationship it might be amazing.

 

What are you guys doing for your 4th date?

 

Activity dates can be great to help conversation when you are both getting to know each other. Are there any activities you both like?

 

How old are you both?

 

Do you have places of your own?

[kassy]

Oh just saw the ages, just keep going until there is a reason not to. You aren't 18 so you probably both know what you want in a relationship and a partner.

[alphamale]

see how you both feel after 6 or 7 dates under your belt. don't give up so soon. if she has agreed to 4 dates with you chances are she likes you.

[PhilHarper]

Thank you very much for the responses. You're right. I probably am jumping the gun a little. I'm just itching to have a heart to heart an get a better idea of where she is. Shy people are hard to read. But it's probably not the time for it.

 

I'll wait and see and try to escalate things physically a little more in the meantime. For our 4th date I've planned for us to attend a late night hip jazz show followed by an even later dinner. It's all I have time for since I'll be working late that day.

[kassy]

Jazz show sounds like a great date and gives you something to talk about over dinner. You've got this. Also, if you feel a heart to heart chat will help calm your anxiety have it. Either when walking holding hands or when cuddling, not sitting awkwardly across a table from each other

[Cookiesandough]

I have to say, this really resonated with me. I have been the girl in this situation more than a handful of times with my Tinder dates, I feel. Both kind of shy. I have to be honest with you. I lose interest. The guy can't talk to me or isn't progressing things and it just becomes frustrating. I understand it, because I deal with it too at times. I used to at least, but forcing myself to 'fake it til i make it' has pretty much done away with my social anxiety. I empathize, but it frustrates me and I lose attraction. So I think you really need to work on coming out of your shell. You're too cool to hide yourself and waste these precious, irreplaceable moments of your life in your shell!

[smackie9]

Ya I have to say if a guy doesn't step up and be confident around me, I get turned off pretty quickly. Kind of takes the wind out of the sails if you know what I mean.

[normal person]

You're fighting an uphill battle by assuming you can bond over a shared fear of people -- because you're both people as well. You might think it's fun or cute that you're both shy, but she's going to grow tired of a man that's afraid of people a lot sooner than you think. Shared shyness might generate some comfort initially, but she's going to expect you to "be a man" when that wears off.

 

Neither of you is going to push things forward by being shy, so (as a man) you just need to take the reigns and get things done. Take the actions you know you should take, start the conversations you know you want to have, and see how she handles it all. If she can't handle it or has too much trouble with it, then you've got to decide if it's something you want to keep dealing with. At least one of you has to be outgoing enough to push things forward, two shy people are going to be treading water with each other.

Edited November 6, 2017 by normal person

[PhilHarper]

Thank you for the responses. I would just like to make a distinction between shyness and social anxiety. I have social anxiety disorder that has been diagnosed by a therapist, which isn't just a plain fear of people. It's a disorder, related to fear but manifests with physical symptoms that I can't mentally control, hence the disorder.

 

Oftentimes when I get even the slightest bit nervous I will start to sweat and in a matter of 10 to 15 seconds it will look like I just came back from the gym, I will be drenched. From age 20 to 30 I could rarely talk with anyone, even my own siblings for more than a few sentences without this happening.

 

On my last date with this girl I had invited her to my place to play piano because we both play and I thought a more quiet venue would help us both open up. Unfortunately some small awkwardness made me nervous and triggered the downpour and I had to repeatedly excuse myself to the bathroom to wipe my face. Couldn't really escalate physically after that because I could tell she was uncomfortable, no matter how confident I wanted to be.

 

I keep a handkerchief in my pocket at all times, but even that isn't a good look. I've tried applying antiperspirant to my face, that doesn't always work. I eat incredibly healthy and stay in perfect fitness because I thought diet might be contributing to the cause. I meditate daily.

 

If it's not sweating then it's trembling hands. If I put my arm on a girl my hands will shake enough to the point where it's noticeable and I've had women comment on it, asking if im nervous. Even if im not that nervous my hands will make it seem like i am. So my problem isn't solely lack of trying, although yes I could to more, it's a combination of physical issues that seem to inhibit my progress. Sometimes I feel like if I didn't sweat so much my dating life and life in general would be completely different.

 

It's taken me about 2 years of developing my small talk abilities to get to a point where I can sit down at a restaurant with someone and drive the conversation and not have to make a dash for the bathroom. I will still sweat, but it's only about 1/3rd of the time now. So I have a 66% chance of a date going well now for reasons I can't control. After that the odds go down.

 

Sex, kissing, Im fine. My anxiety goes away and I'm able to relax. Then I can focus on things like being confident and gelling with the girl. But I just can't seem to even make it to that phase reliably enough. I have all these awkward relationship starts where taking risks usually ends in disaster. It's getting to the point where I feel like I shouldn't date, if awkwardness is such a turnoff.

[normal person]

That's fair. Have you talked to a doctor about the sweating? I have a friend who sweats a lot and I think he was able to get a some medication to mitigate it.

[PhilHarper]

Yeah I have, and there's really not much that can be done for sweating esp when triggered by anxiety and on the face.

[smackie9]

You need to do exposure therapy with a therapist to walk you through the process of controlling it. Sitting in a chair talking about it does jack $%%^. If your therapist isn't really helping you then you are wasting your money and should seek out a new one that can help you. Remember not all therapists are the same.

[PhilHarper]

I'm in the process of exposure therapy for social anxiety, but for this specific issue, dating anxiety I guess, I'm not aware of any exercises/activities I could use for practice. Though I haven't asked. I will next session.

 

Weekly Improv comedy, public speaking group, bars and clubs on Friday and Saturday, sporadic social events, hanging with friends, regular tinder dates, I get plenty of general social exposure therapy and it helps. I can make adequate small talk now and have calmer body language. For flirting and physical escalation and reduction of symptoms during those actions, i still struggle a lot. I suppose I have to keep making more attempts until they become more comfortable.