Discussion about who pays for dates

[lover01]

I've been together with a girl for a few months now, but we know each other for about a year and a half. We've been going out on dates for probably around 6 months now (but made it official about 2 months ago).

 

Some time ago when we went out, we went to quite an expensive restuarant that she had suggested. I had always paid everything on every date, and so I did this time again. I decided to make a comment though that I've been spending a lot of money recently and that I might ask her at some point to start splitting bills. I'm not broke at all, but also not super rich, though that's sort of beyond the point for me. We've both recently graduated and make approximately the same - I think it's just reasonable for her to start paying her share at some point. I'd still be more than happy to pay a bit more than 50% because I'm somewhat proud, but a gesture once in a while would be nice.

 

Anyway, we went out again recently and after we went away from the restaurant she brought up that she picked it because she remembered me saying that I was spending too much and this place is cheaper. I explained to her that it wasn't about the fact that I'm broke or don't want to spend money on her, but that I wanted to subtly tell her that it would make sense if she started paying part of the bills. I felt bad about the fact that she had chosen a restaurant she otherwise might not have simply because she thought I wouldn't want to spend more money though. I have enough spending power, and if she really wanted to go to a more expensive restaurant again, I without a doubt in my mind would have paid in full if it would've made her happier, because she means a lot to me (and money does not). She said she understood me though, and that it makes sense because "we're the same age". That gave me the feeling we're not actually on the same page, because it means she still thinks that otherwise I should be the one to always pay. She also mentioned that her previous boyfriends always did, so maybe that's part of the problem.

 

I don't have a very specific question, but would just be happy to hear other people's take on the situation. I like this girl a lot so there are no issues between us, but I'm slightly annoyed that in her mind I'm now a cheapskate who doesn't have the money to take care of her. I have a great job, make significantly more than average for my age, and am not cheap (I've already spent a LOT of money on her), so it bothers me. Thanks for the input!

[preraph]

Many women are brought up to regard a man as a provider. They may not give it any real thought, but it stems from age-old traditions of being sure a man is able to provide once children come and when many women cannot return to work for at least a few months.

 

I don't think you were unreasonable asking to split -- but at the same time, I think her solution makes more sense, that is, simply going to less expensive places on a day-to-day basis so neither of you are spending as much money. After all, she does have her own budget to consider. I don't know if she's making more or less than you, but as you know, women in the US make average 74% of what men do. So they have a LOT less leisure spending budget, plus they have to buy more clothing and women's clothing especially to dress for work can be very expensive.

 

So I think if I were you I would accept her method of saving you money and just not take her to expensive places. maybe if she does want to go somewhere bad enough, she will offer to pay sometimes.

 

Where I'm from, the woman makes up for some of this one-sided check paying by cooking a nice meal for the man once in a while. And don't ever think that that is cheap. That means about a $60 bill at the grocer plus time used to do the cooking, which for me, who is largely self-employed, means losing money for every minute I'm shopping or cooking.

 

So my point being, be sure you look at the big picture. Peel it back with the spending in general.

[7675]

While it's true that you should never stop "courting" your partner, at some point, she should also be paying for herself, or maybe even spoiling you now and then.

I mean, as a guy, you can't always be trying to empress a girl even when you've been dating for ages.

 

Anyway, I think you handled you situation well.

[lover01]

Many women are brought up to regard a man as a provider. They may not give it any real thought, but it stems from age-old traditions of being sure a man is able to provide once children come and when many women cannot return to work for at least a few months.

 

I don't think you were unreasonable asking to split -- but at the same time, I think her solution makes more sense, that is, simply going to less expensive places on a day-to-day basis so neither of you are spending as much money. After all, she does have her own budget to consider. I don't know if she's making more or less than you, but as you know, women in the US make average 74% of what men do. So they have a LOT less leisure spending budget, plus they have to buy more clothing and women's clothing especially to dress for work can be very expensive.

 

So I think if I were you I would accept her method of saving you money and just not take her to expensive places. maybe if she does want to go somewhere bad enough, she will offer to pay sometimes.

 

Where I'm from, the woman makes up for some of this one-sided check paying by cooking a nice meal for the man once in a while. And don't ever think that that is cheap. That means about a $60 bill at the grocer plus time used to do the cooking, which for me, who is largely self-employed, means losing money for every minute I'm shopping or cooking.

 

So my point being, be sure you look at the big picture. Peel it back with the spending in general.

 

Thanks this is good advice! I'm fine with going to cheaper places, I was never the one to suggest the more expensive restaurants in the first place. What bothers me is more that it seems as if she now has an image of me as someone who doesn't have enough money to spend on her (or doesn't want to do so).

 

She makes about the same as I do (I know for sure). I think it does indeed largely stem from the fact that she regards the man as the provider, especially since she is Asian and might've been brought up even more with that idea in mind. To be honest, I've been brought up that way as well, but I just think that in this particular situation it doesn't make much sense, as we're both young, and make the same.

[lover01]

While it's true that you should never stop "courting" your partner, at some point, she should also be paying for herself, or maybe even spoiling you now and then.

I mean, as a guy, you can't always be trying to empress a girl even when you've been dating for ages.

 

Anyway, I think you handled you situation well.

 

I agree 100% with this. Thank you, that is nice to hear some times !

[JuneL]

Just don't date high maintenance women. When she said her past bf's used to pay for everything, did you tell her your past gf's used to contribute to part of thr dating expenses? I think guys are expected to pay more during the early courting stage, but it'd be crazy to expect the guy to continue to cover for everything.

[JuneL]

OP: Does she contribute to other dating expenses (like inviting you over for a homemade meal, picking up things for you)?

[smackie9]

Sorry to say but she's the type of girl that is used to dating guys who pay all the time...this could possibly be her preference. You on the other hand do like a woman with independence and accepts equality proudly. This is a compatibility issue. Having compatible views about money, how it's spent, saved etc is crucial to a relationship now a days. I doubt very highly she's going to be on board with this. Her way of thinking is to go cheaper rather than spend any of her own money lol like wow that should tell you where her head is at.

 

Best be having a clear concise conversation about money expectations before investing into this relationship.

[smackie9]

I understand you are really digging this girl and want to do anything to keep her around, but don't overlook this for too long.

[Els]

 

She makes about the same as I do (I know for sure). I think it does indeed largely stem from the fact that she regards the man as the provider, especially since she is Asian and might've been brought up even more with that idea in mind. To be honest, I've been brought up that way as well, but I just think that in this particular situation it doesn't make much sense, as we're both young, and make the same.

 

Unfortunately, the cultural conditioning in Asia is very, very strong, and it's difficult to break that mold. A fun fact - I grew up in Asia and lived there for the first two decades of my life. I had NEVER seen a couple split the bill at dinner, until I visited a Western country! I shyt you not. Two decades, not one occurrence. In fact, the conditioning was so strong that the first time I saw it happen, my initial thought wasn't "oh, so couples sometimes go dutch here", but rather "huh, do platonic friends hold hands here?!?".

 

It's more than just a role, it's also about how women in many Asian countries are brought up to associate romance and masculinity with the man providing. It's a social signal, too. The general assumption is that if you go out with a man and he wants to split the bill, he only wants to be platonic friends, but if he pays for you, he has romantic intentions in mind. I guess a similar comparison is how men in Western cultures are conditioned to find a woman without body hair attractive, or to associate lack of body hair with femininity.

 

That being said, you're not obliged to do something you don't feel comfortable with just to adhere to her cultural upbringing. I think you should just do what you want to do, be honest with her and let the chips fall where they may. If she loses attraction to you, then it just wasn't meant to be because both of you are incompatible. Better to find that out now than later. It's possible that you would be more compatible with a woman from a Western culture.

[lover01]

Just don't date high maintenance women. When she said her past bf's used to pay for everything, did you tell her your past gf's used to contribute to part of thr dating expenses? I think guys are expected to pay more during the early courting stage, but it'd be crazy to expect the guy to continue to cover for everything.

 

It was late at night and she had to leave shortly after so I didn't want to turn it into too much of an argument. That's exactly how I think as well though, and in my opinion it just made sense to bring it up after it's been quite a while now since we've started dating.

[lover01]

OP: Does she contribute to other dating expenses (like inviting you over for a homemade meal, picking up things for you)?

 

She doesn't. Then again she works crazy hours, and is quite often away for business so I don't blame her for that. She is caring in other ways though, though not monetarily.

[lover01]

Sorry to say but she's the type of girl that is used to dating guys who pay all the time...this could possibly be her preference. You on the other hand do like a woman with independence and accepts equality proudly. This is a compatibility issue. Having compatible views about money, how it's spent, saved etc is crucial to a relationship now a days. I doubt very highly she's going to be on board with this. Her way of thinking is to go cheaper rather than spend any of her own money lol like wow that should tell you where her head is at.

 

Best be having a clear concise conversation about money expectations before investing into this relationship.

 

I know, that's why I thought it was a good time to start bringing it up.

[Cookiesandough]

Thanks this is good advice! I'm fine with going to cheaper places, I was never the one to suggest the more expensive restaurants in the first place. What bothers me is more that it seems as if she now has an image of me as someone who doesn't have enough money to spend on her (or doesn't want to do so).

 

She makes about the same as I do (I know for sure). I think it does indeed largely stem from the fact that she regards the man as the provider, especially since she is Asian and might've been brought up even more with that idea in mind. To be honest, I've been brought up that way as well, but I just think that in this particular situation it doesn't make much sense, as we're both young, and make the same.

 

 

.My mom is 1st gen South Korean and I just asked her and she says women should absolutely pay your share while dating, give and take, "you don't own him". This is a compatibility thing. She believes a man should pay all the time. You think it's unreasonable. Have a clear conversation with her about it and how this is about principle, not money, and hopefully that will clear up any beliefs she has about you just being cheap

[SevenCity]

Many women claim to want equal rights but it stops at picking up the tab.

 

Moreover, they want to go to places they wouldn't go or couldn't afford themselves, yet have no issue being taken there.

 

It's entitlement and selfishness plain and simple. I've found many women like this. They want to vote, have equal pay, all the rights a guy does but none of the responsibilities.

 

They think they are doing you a favor by selecting a cheaper place, meanwhile you may not have any desire to go there with a friend even though the menu doesn't include a "2x" next to every item.

 

This expectation is perpetuated by many guys who feel it is ALWAYS their responsibility to pick up the tab. At first sure, but a woman who doesn't want to pay is selfish and entitled and this will manifest in all aspects on your relationship.

 

My clothes are not cheap, and I have a mortgage (and all other associated house stuff) to pay for already. I don't feel I'm responsible for feeding them 3 meals a day.

 

When it gets like that (as with the last girl I was dating) I begin to feel like I'm paying for a prostitute.

 

Would you feel comfortable having a friend pay all the time for you? I know I wouldn't. I don't expect anyone to pay my way and I don't like girls who are comfortable with someone always paying for theirs. The expectations are a huge turn off. Go call up your ex bf next time you want a free meal leach

[lover01]

Unfortunately, the cultural conditioning in Asia is very, very strong, and it's difficult to break that mold. A fun fact - I grew up in Asia and lived there for the first two decades of my life. I had NEVER seen a couple split the bill at dinner, until I visited a Western country! I shyt you not. Two decades, not one occurrence. In fact, the conditioning was so strong that the first time I saw it happen, my initial thought wasn't "oh, so couples sometimes go dutch here", but rather "huh, do platonic friends hold hands here?!?".

 

It's more than just a role, it's also about how women in many Asian countries are brought up to associate romance and masculinity with the man providing. It's a social signal, too. The general assumption is that if you go out with a man and he wants to split the bill, he only wants to be platonic friends, but if he pays for you, he has romantic intentions in mind. I guess a similar comparison is how men in Western cultures are conditioned to find a woman without body hair attractive, or to associate lack of body hair with femininity.

 

That being said, you're not obliged to do something you don't feel comfortable with just to adhere to her cultural upbringing. I think you should just do what you want to do, be honest with her and let the chips fall where they may. If she loses attraction to you, then it just wasn't meant to be because both of you are incompatible. Better to find that out now than later. It's possible that you would be more compatible with a woman from a Western culture.

 

She grew up in a western country and I genuinely do think she understands part of it, but yes you are right. I'm glad I brought it up now though, we'll see how things go as they continue. She's a great girl though, so I'm sure we can work it out.

[lover01]

.My mom is 1st gen South Korean and I just asked her and she says women should absolutely pay your share while dating, give and take, "you don't own him". This is a compatibility thing. She believes a man should pay all the time. You think it's unreasonable. Have a clear conversation with her about it and how this is about principle, not money, and hopefully that will clear up any beliefs she has about you just being cheap

 

Thanks, this is good advice. I might have another conversation about it again later with her. Nice to hear first hand from someone who grew up in a similar culture!

[BaileyB]

I don't think you are wrong to expect her to split the cost of your dates.

 

The fact that she doesn't agree and expects you to pay for everything, would be a big red flag for me. That's a pretty entitled attitude to have.

[Els]

She grew up in a western country and I genuinely do think she understands part of it, but yes you are right. I'm glad I brought it up now though, we'll see how things go as they continue. She's a great girl though, so I'm sure we can work it out.

 

Oh, if she grew up in a Western country then it's likely that she might be more amenable to it.

 

A different suggestion - it's possible that it's the ACT of splitting the bill that turns her off, not the money per se. What about if you guys took turns to pay instead? I know that if I ever insisted on going dutch, my SO (also born and raised in Asia) would be really turned off - he doesn't agree with a couple literally splitting bills down the middle. However, he is okay with me buying things for him, or paying for both of us if I grab takeaway for us or such.

 

By taking turns, you could avoid the unpleasant act, but still have a relatively 50/50 financial split.

[BaileyB]

Good point Elswyth. That is what we do - he pays for dinner, I buy the movie tickets and snacks... It all evens out in the end and it's not as much of a hassle.

[Cookiesandough]

I think into a rship, even in the west, going Dutch all the time is not too common. Maybe on first few dates(and even then not) , but after that, I don't think. It's taking turns paying for dates or stuff

[JuneL]

Unfortunately, the cultural conditioning in Asia is very, very strong, and it's difficult to break that mold. A fun fact - I grew up in Asia and lived there for the first two decades of my life. I had NEVER seen a couple split the bill at dinner, until I visited a Western country! I shyt you not. Two decades, not one occurrence. In fact, the conditioning was so strong that the first time I saw it happen, my initial thought wasn't "oh, so couples sometimes go dutch here", but rather "huh, do platonic friends hold hands here?!?".

 

I'm quite familiar with East Asian culture myself. First, it's not uncommon for a young couple (e.g. college kids) to split the bill; second, while it's quite uncommon for a couple both working to split the bill, it's not unlikely they just take turns paying.

 

It's more than just a role, it's also about how women in many Asian countries are brought up to associate romance and masculinity with the man providing. It's a social signal, too. The general assumption is that if you go out with a man and he wants to split the bill, he only wants to be platonic friends, but if he pays for you, he has romantic intentions in mind. I guess a similar comparison is how men in Western cultures are conditioned to find a woman without body hair attractive, or to associate lack of body hair with femininity.

 

This thread will most likely be merged with the master consolidated discussion thread. This topic has come up already. Among my married East Asian female friends, more of them are contributing more financially to their household expenses, due to the fact that they are earning more compared to their husbands.

[SevenCity]

Oh, if she grew up in a Western country then it's likely that she might be more amenable to it.

 

A different suggestion - it's possible that it's the ACT of splitting the bill that turns her off, not the money per se. What about if you guys took turns to pay instead? I know that if I ever insisted on going dutch, my SO (also born and raised in Asia) would be really turned off - he doesn't agree with a couple literally splitting bills down the middle. However, he is okay with me buying things for him, or paying for both of us if I grab takeaway for us or such.

 

By taking turns, you could avoid the unpleasant act, but still have a relatively 50/50 financial split.

 

Totally agree with this. Dutch is for friends, taking turns is equality.

[thefooloftheyear]

I gotta say....When I read this stuff, I cringe...Not that splitting a bill is anything to be ashamed of or anything, but Id never do it...If I couldn't pick up a measly dinner tab, then I wouldn't even date....but that's me...

 

 

I mean....do people say stuff at the time of end of dinner, like..."well...you had the steak and I had the salad, so your share is 18 and mine is 13"...?? good grief...

 

One of my customers was telling me that her daughter and her bf split the tab every time...They are both in their late 20's, have been together for 4 years, and there have been long term plans....I mean, what????!! Still splitting the bill? Are they gonna split everything else, too??

 

 

It just seems like the polite and gentlemanly thing to do when you take a woman out....Even if nothing came of it, who cares?? I don't agree with the assessment that some guys on here make that women just troll for suckers to buy them meals...Heck, most women eat like canaries on dates anyway...Makes no sense...I don't see women doing that...Maybe it's happened, but its probably way over exaggerated.

 

.02.

 

TFY

[preraph]

Thanks this is good advice! I'm fine with going to cheaper places, I was never the one to suggest the more expensive restaurants in the first place. What bothers me is more that it seems as if she now has an image of me as someone who doesn't have enough money to spend on her (or doesn't want to do so).

 

She makes about the same as I do (I know for sure). I think it does indeed largely stem from the fact that she regards the man as the provider, especially since she is Asian and might've been brought up even more with that idea in mind. To be honest, I've been brought up that way as well, but I just think that in this particular situation it doesn't make much sense, as we're both young, and make the same.

 

Yes, different cultures have different customs, and you DO have to be careful they are not just after your money. If she makes as much as you, I'd have little patience about it too. She is probably socking away her money or giving it to her family, and then they probably encourage this.

 

So I'm going to keep it simple and tell you what I'd tell any friend of mine, and that is to have boundaries and keep your boundaries. Don't let it go on if you feel it's not something you can live with going forward because her family may be influencing her and you may NEVER be able to change her mind at all. She may simply keep looking for a man with an open wallet. But have this discussion with her. Go ahead and tell her you are looking for a 50/50 partner in a future wife. Ask her what she is looking for. Money is a dealbreaker issue that must be put on the table honestly if you are starting to get serious. She has no grounds to get mad about it. It would be two people looking for two different situations if there's no middle ground. Keep us updated.