Loving a girl with abandonment issues.

[C.JunioR]

Hi LS, I've been stalking this forum for a while and seen great threads and responses, but never thought it'd be my turn to share my experience. This is going to be a long story. My sincere thanks to anyone who would be able to read through this and empathize with it. It is more like a reflection than any specific advice seeking thread. But any responses or advice would be great too.

 

His background:

I am a 23 y/o Chinese from Singapore, been in 3 significant r/s moments; first r/s lasted 3 months - puppy love. Second was a girl that i had a crush on for very long during my adolescence, hung out for a few 'dates', but got N/C-ed when i confessed. Third was a LTR of 3.5 years starting from when i was 19. This girl, lets call her Flora, we shared phenomenal chemistry and emotional attachment at the beginning. It was more than infatuation and rose tinted lens, but due to my immaturity and lack of experience and her stubbornness and spoiled ways, we steered the r/s into a toxic and abusive one for both of us. I've never said ILY to her during those years, because i believed that saying those 3 words was a promise to her and myself, that i would accept her unconditionally as she was and do my utmost to love us. That point never came because i could never overlook some of her flaws. At the end of the r/s, i realized that the r/s didn't nurture or teach much for me and i was pretty much the same as i was when it started.

 

Her background:

The girl is called, for the purpose of this story, Pony. She is a 23 y/o Singaporean of British - SG mix ethnicity (25% Chinese) who spend most of her adolescence growing up in SG before relocating back to England when she was 15. Now shes back here on a year long internship for her degree in England, with plans to remain in SG afterwards. She has been cheated on by a bf in a LTR which she broke off immediately when she found out, and in quick succession, lost her beloved dad and grandma. This lead to her having abandonment issues and even depression in which she had to be warded for. She has lost a lot of people to the grim reaper despite being so young, more than my hands can count, and she sincerely believes that everyone in her life would leave her at some point, and it shows. She'd delete her Facebook because she wants to avoid seeing her friends enjoy themselves without her, she had sabotaged the only relationship after the LTR, and now she's sabotaged us.

 

However, her abandonment issues are not as deeply rooted as it manifested when she was already a young adult at 20. And I've already helped her overcome a situation where she had to stand up to one of her family member's unreasonable request for her own cause(usually she'd give in because she wouldn't want to 'lose' the family member). She's aware of her issues, and I was confident that it could be worked upon.

 

The Relationship:

It started off as a match on Tinder, usual OLD crap. But we knew that each other were different once we talked on the phone. We would spend hours on the phone everyday talking endlessly, once even through the night until the sun rose. We'd banter, insult, share, listen, encourage, laugh and cry. We shared things with each other that we'd never tell our closest friends or even family members, dived into the depths of our skeletons piles and shared the worst to each other. And we both accepted each other. I've never felt such a strong emotional connection with someone just over the phone. I tear up just by thinking about it.

 

Over the next few weeks, we've not met due to her schedule and dedication to her intern deadlines(she is among the top of her uni and valedictorian material). But on the phone, we've talked about our relationship goals, life goals, deal breakers, things we wanted to do together, relationship and exclusivity talks, fears, insecurities, love. We have both deleted our Tinder too. I've learned and been inspired so much by her, to be kind, gentle, and nurturing. When she talked about her dark past and abandonment issues, i didn't feel like running away nor judge; and i decided to go through with it even after doing much research on it and knowing what it will entail, because she meant so much to me that i don't want to lose her over this. Maybe its just me being selfish and arrogant.

 

The wave hit when i mentioned a situation where my friend was 'hopping' between girls and i didn't realize that it brought up her insecurity and even defended my friend because i didn't want Pony have a bad impression of him. What a bad oversight on my part. She closed off and switched to sabotage mode and began trying to end us by stating traits of mine that she wouldn't be able to accept (things she's already accepted before). This was close to our first incoming meetup. She sounded adamant about it and because she was on a work trip to Bali and had no access to internet most of the time, it felt like a 'breakup'. Funny how I'd use this word because we already both felt committed and belonging to each other. I was devastated at first and couldn't understand why this situation happened. But after mulling about it, i realized that this was her sabotage, her abandonment. I felt the pain, the possibility and unpredictability of things, but that's when i made the choice. The choice to love her.

 

The moment i made this decision, things cleared up for me. Was I reckless? Maybe i was, but i don't regret it. This was a decision i could never reach in 3.5 years with Flora, and i never knew how to love. It meant that i accepted her, with her issues, all the hurt she would inflict in me in the future, all the times she could abandon me so that i cant abandon her. Did that mean that i didn't love myself? I would not think so, because she has so many qualities that I admire and desire too that it was such a good trade-off, i might actually be selfish for wanting to be with her. It was like a flipping a switch that lit up the room. I could see her beauty, her ugly, and all the numerous obstacles in the room. But i could also see how to move about them now.

 

I managed to get her to open up to me once again, and touch her heart and mind with my decision and expressing how i felt towards her without inhibition. I wanted to make her realise that her abandonment issues could not stay forever and she had to work on them, and that i will be beside her supporting her all the way. She took a few days off to think about it, but i guess that her issues triumphed over what we had. She didn't want to enter the relationship with these issues, didn't want to hurt me because she knows she definitely would, and would always see the end of the r/s around every corner. I yearn, so, so much, to tell her that I don't care, that I've made the decision to love, for once in my life. That any hurt she may inflict on me in the r/s would be better than the pain of being without her. But that would be disrespecting her decision. I don't know what to do, and the pain of separating is killing me, just as I'm sure it is for her too.

 

I'm conflicted and at a lost as to what to do now, to deal with the pain of losing a soul mate. To quote her Tumblr 'you know I don't believe in soulmates but, hand on heart, if I did... he would be mine.'

 

If I did, she'd be mine.

[smackie9]

Sorry this is way too long....is there a short version??

[C.JunioR]

Sorry this is way too long....is there a short version??

 

Sorry, I just kept pouring out and forgot about the length.

 

TLDR version: Girl and I are like each other's soulmates, but she is choosing to flee and not start a relationship because of past abandonment issues and fears and doesn't want to hurt me.

[todreaminblue]

when you get abandoned numerous times it seeps into your very spirit......it becomes part of who you are abandonment manifests issues in many ways some of them even unconsciously...some of them hard to spot......you can deal with them...doesnt necessarily mean the issues go away but you learn to recognise them and communicate them out of existence before they do damage......

 

 

 

this takes the dreaded time and patience a lot of people dont have and then it takes a whole load of understanding and respect by both parties......

 

counselling would help her immensely...therapy for both of you would too....to come up with strategies and effective communication that is compatible and progressive...........but first off she has to want to change her communication style to one that isnt self sabotaging...and if she isnt willing to step on out of her ways of self sabotage...its not the right time for you guys to be together....sorry ....i hope things improve.......deb

[TaraMaiden2]

Risk and Reward:

 

How much is this worth to you?

Do you think she's worth sticking with, pursuing and persisting?

Have you told her she should get help for her issues?

Does she know what they are?

Is she willing, able and desirous of getting past this?

 

In short - would the reward (her as a GF) be worth the Risk (all of the above)?

 

And for how long do you intend to 'Risk', if at all?

[C.JunioR]

Risk and Reward:

 

How much is this worth to you?

How do I quantify this? So much. She makes me feel more complete than I could ever envision myself to be feeling. Shes almost perfect. Absolutely beautiful, right values(especially when I'm Asian), nurturing, ticking all the boxes for mind/emotional/physical/soul chemistry. That's how much she is worth to me.

Do you think she's worth sticking with, pursuing and persisting?

Absolutely. I've decided on that ever since i decided on loving her. My worst fears would be if she didn't let me.

Have you told her she should get help for her issues?

Yes I have, and I have tried to help her do research and stuff myself too. But she acknowledges the problem, but is not receptive to the idea, and very pessimistic about whether she will even be able to get 'fixed'.

Does she know what they are?

Yes, but she has admittedly not tried to take an active approach to facing the problem until I came along. She would most likely know various ways to get help because she volunteers at mental institutions due to her past depressions and wishes to help and 'give back'. See why she's so amazing?

Is she willing, able and desirous of getting past this?

She wants to, i believe she will be on her way to resolving this, but shes unsure if she is fixable, and therefore pushes me away so that i would not be hurt by her issues when they act up.

 

In short - would the reward (her as a GF) be worth the Risk (all of the above)?

I risk my feelings but I would gain the world.

 

And for how long do you intend to 'Risk', if at all?

For as long as it takes for her to be in a healthy state of mind to be in a r/s. And although she doesn't believe it can happen, I do. I see signs of her being receptive to professional treatment.

 

Must type 10 characters.

[ExpatInItaly]

Do I understand correctly that you've still never met her in person?

 

She doesn't sound ready for a relationship at all if she's throwing up obstacles so soon.

[TaraMaiden2]

Must type 10 characters.

 

Until she is on board 100%, this is hopeless.

"'Tis part of the cure to WISH to be cured."

 

Unless it's her idea, unless she can believe it will work, unless she is convinced for herself, that she needs to seek support, professional support - and wants to do so for herself, by herself - then you are not her carer, and you can't fix her.

 

Compounding the problem is that you have never met.

I would say your "insistence" and urging is putting her off.

You're pursuing too hard.

This in itself, will be sufficient to make her retreat, because you're scaring her.

 

And if you back off, and cool it?

The pressure will be off, she can relax, because the danger's passed.

 

I can hear you now:

"Sure, but if I press her to seek healing, she will resist, and won't do it.

If I back off, and ease up, she may not take the initiative, and do it.

Either way, I lose."

 

Exactly.

Her future - is not your call.

You haven't even met her, and you're developing a future in your mind.

 

I emphasise - in YOUR mind.

[C.JunioR]

Do I understand correctly that you've still never met her in person?

 

She doesn't sound ready for a relationship at all if she's throwing up obstacles so soon.

 

Yes thats right, but please do note undermine this just because we haven't met. It is a non-factor, and it would take another chunk to explain why.

 

Yes i agree that she's not ready for a relationship yet, and on hindsight, that maybe it was my mistake to try to push a label on us.

[C.JunioR]

Until she is on board 100%, this is hopeless.

"'Tis part of the cure to WISH to be cured."

 

Unless it's her idea, unless she can believe it will work, unless she is convinced for herself, that she needs to seek support, professional support - and wants to do so for herself, by herself - then you are not her carer, and you can't fix her.

 

Compounding the problem is that you have never met.

I would say your "insistence" and urging is putting her off.

You're pursuing too hard.

This in itself, will be sufficient to make her retreat, because you're scaring her.

 

And if you back off, and cool it?

The pressure will be off, she can relax, because the danger's passed.

 

I can hear you now:

"Sure, but if I press her to seek healing, she will resist, and won't do it.

If I back off, and ease up, she may not take the initiative, and do it.

Either way, I lose."

 

Exactly.

Her future - is not your call.

You haven't even met her, and you're developing a future in your mind.

 

I emphasise - in YOUR mind.

 

Thank you for this. Responses like these are why i linger around in L/S.

Yes, on hindsight, i do agree that i may have screwed up by coming on too strongly so soon.

 

However i have to emphasize that our feelings were always mutual. However strongly i feel about her, its the same way back, which is why we pushed on defining the relationship so soon, and when that 'incident' about my friend happened, one lead lead to another and became this mess.

If I had been more clear headed maybe i could have seen where it was headed.

[ExpatInItaly]

Yes thats right, but please do note undermine this just because we haven't met. It is a non-factor, and it would take another chunk to explain why.

 

Yes i agree that she's not ready for a relationship yet, and on hindsight, that maybe it was my mistake to try to push a label on us.

 

How is it a non-factor?

 

I am not undermining you. I am simply pointing out that you have put a lot of effort and emotional energy into someone you don't know in person. It's not wise to do so, because you're putting too many hopes on the situation without seeing how you click and interact in real time.

 

In any case, you're seeing she's not ready to open up enough to even meet you once. She bailed at the first hint of a problem. A relationship simply isn't possible when one person isn't willing to try.

[mikeylo]

You need to be genuine in your wanting her and a relationship with her. Keep your expectations low from her except love. Be there. We all have needs and wants. Her ' need ' is to know that you won't leave or betray her. While there are no guarantees in life but she needs it at least for as long as you are together.

 

You need lots of patience and a bit of thick skin , especially when she pushes you away. Irony is when she pushes you away is the moment she needs you the most but has learned from her personal experience that she herself has to solve it by not reaching out because those who should have been there for her , we're not there. While others reach out for help , she wants too as well but because of past , when she had no option but to help soothe herself on her own , she does it again even though you are there. Did I make sense ?

Edited May 1, 2016 by mikeylo

[C.JunioR]

How is it a non-factor?

 

I am not undermining you. I am simply pointing out that you have put a lot of effort and emotional energy into someone you don't know in person. It's not wise to do so, because you're putting too many hopes on the situation without seeing how you click and interact in real time.

 

In any case, you're seeing she's not ready to open up enough to even meet you once. She bailed at the first hint of a problem. A relationship simply isn't possible when one person isn't willing to try.

Yes i have, and maybe i shouldn't have. But it's just a case where everything felt so right, to open up, to share, to bond. Now I'm just struggling to convince myself that its a dead end and i have to move on.

 

You need to be genuine in your wanting her and a relationship with her. Keep your expectations low from her except love. Be there. We all have needs and wants. Her ' need ' is to know that you won't leave or betray her. While there are no guarantees in life but she needs it at least for as long as you are together.

 

You need lots of patience and a bit of thick skin , especially when she pushes you away. Irony is when she pushes you away is the moment she needs you the most but has learned from her personal experience that she herself has to solve it by not reaching out because those who should have been there for her , we're not there. While others reach out for help , she wants too as well but because of past , when she had no option but to help soothe herself on her own , she does it again even though you are there. Did I make sense ?

 

She knows that I will be there. What she doesn't know is whether she can even be 'fixed' or how long it'd take. And she doesn't want to hold me hostage and wait on her while she's fixing herself.

[mikeylo]

While some people believe in letting go and saying see you when you have fixed yourself , I'm a believer in working together. Because if they are not there at my worst , then they don't deserve me at my best , aka when her issues are fixed.

 

It seems like she was opening up but the friends incident triggered her issue and then went downhill from there. It means that she wants to and tried to get over her fear otherwise she wouldn't have come this far ! Going back to her shell is the direct result of the incident.

 

She won't get over her fear till she puts herself out and she did , with you. If she did it once , she will come again. How that will happen , is something you would know.

[mikeylo]

I missed the part that you are not able to convince yourself to break away from her! That's easy. Just tell yourself that she is broken. Next !

[C.JunioR]

While some people believe in letting go and saying see you when you have fixed yourself , I'm a believer in working together. Because if they are not there at my worst , then they don't deserve me at my best , aka when her issues are fixed.

 

It seems like she was opening up but the friends incident triggered her issue and then went downhill from there. It means that she wants to and tried to get over her fear otherwise she wouldn't have come this far ! Going back to her shell is the direct result of the incident.

 

She won't get over her fear till she puts herself out and she did , with you. If she did it once , she will come again. How that will happen , is something you would know.

I am a believer of that too, that's why I'm wiling to work with her through all these, but she wouldn't let me because she knows that i will inevitable get hurt during her relapses which she'll push me away. I'm going in with that preparation, and she doesn't realize how much value she has as a partner.

I missed the part that you are not able to convince yourself to break away from her! That's easy. Just tell yourself that she is broken. Next !

 

I know that, that's easy. The hard part is how to shut down the voices of how intelligent, insightful, hardworking, dedicated, sporty, kind, loving, nurturing, magnanimous, beautiful, sexy, charming, musically talented, faithful and understanding she is. I'm not even exaggerating, she's an absolute gem even with her issues and flaws.

[Downtown]

She has been cheated on by a bf in a LTR which she broke off immediately when she found out, and in quick succession, lost her beloved dad and grandma. This lead to her having abandonment issues and even depression in which she had to be warded for.

Junior, it is very unlikely that a healthy woman would get serious abandonment issues because her BF cheated on her and she lost her Dad and grandma while in her early twenties. It is even less likely that such events would cause a healthy woman to become so severely depressed that she would have to be placed in a mental institution for treatment.

 

If that were true for healthy people, a large share of the adult population would suffer from serious abandonment issues. When such issues are very strong, they typically arise in early childhood, usually before the age of five. I therefore suggest you learn the warning signs for AvPD (Avoidant Personality Disorder) and BPD (Borderline PD) so that -- in the unlikely event that you two ever meet physically -- you can spot those signs if they occur.

[C.JunioR]

Junior, it is very unlikely that a healthy woman would get serious abandonment issues because her BF cheated on her and she lost her Dad and grandma while in her early twenties. It is even less likely that such events would cause a healthy woman to become so severely depressed that she would have to be placed in a mental institution for treatment.

 

If that were true for healthy people, a large share of the adult population would suffer from serious abandonment issues. When such issues are very strong, they typically arise in early childhood, usually before the age of five. I therefore suggest you learn the warning signs for AvPD (Avoidant Personality Disorder) and BPD (Borderline PD) so that -- in the unlikely event that you two ever meet physically -- you can spot those signs if they occur.

 

Looked up on BPD before, but AvPD is new to me. Read up on both again, definitely not either. She's pretty much just like any other person like you and I, sociable and able to keep friendships. Issues only arise when someone gets close enough to be considered family, which is the case of a committed r/s.

But yes, she has been growing in circumstances where abandonment issues could have formed since young. Dad and grandma's passing were mainly triggers because she was so close with them.

[Downtown]

She's pretty much just like any other person like you and I, sociable and able to keep friendships. Issues only arise when someone gets close enough to be considered family....

Junior, her being sociable and having friendships "just like any other person" does not rule out AvPD or BPD. The vast majority of folks exhibiting strong traits of those disorders are "high functioning." This means they tend to get along fine with casual friends, business associates, and total strangers. Their AvPD or BPD traits typically do not show at all until you draw close to them, trying to become a very close friend or partner. Only when you draw close in that manner will you start triggering the person's great abandonment fear. Until a close relationship is established, there is nothing that can be abandoned.

 

Indeed, even when you do draw close to them in a dating situation, a high functioning AvPDer or BPDer is unlikely to show any strong symptoms during the courtship period -- which typically lasts at least 4 to 6 months. The reason is that her infatuation over the new partner will hold her fear at bay, convincing her that he is too nearly perfect to pose a threat. Given that you have not yet met this woman physically, I would not expect you to be seeing any strong AvPD or BPD traits -- even if she really does suffer from such traits. This is why I suggested you familiarize yourself with the warning signs as a precaution "in the unlikely event that you two ever meet physically."

But yes, she has been growing in circumstances where abandonment issues could have formed since young.

About 70% of BPDers report that they had been abandoned or abused in early childhood, typically by a parent who was emotionally unavailable. I've seen no figures for AvPDers but I suspect it would be similar.

[C.JunioR]

Thanks for the advice DownTown, although I'm convinced that we would not end up meeting physically anyways. I'm already trying to move on although its breaking my heart how such an opportunity could come to naught.

 

Thank you guys for all the great responses. I didn't really know what i wanted from this thread when i started it. I guess i just wanted to write down and share my thoughts and get some insight, which i have!

 

Would love to continue hearing(seeing) from you guys regarding this topic.

[mikeylo]

Have to say : Since you are moving on , not that you are in the wrong or right, but it confirms her issue with you !

[ExpatInItaly]

Have to say : Since you are moving on , not that you are in the wrong or right, but it confirms her issue with you !

 

He cannot fix this issue. She needs to address the underlying problem before she can enter a relationship.

 

Therefore, he needs to respect his own healthy boundaries. It's not wise to compromise our own emotional well-being to appease someone else who has not addressed her own problems, particularly when he has never met her.

[ExpatInItaly]

Junior, her being sociable and having friendships "just like any other person" does not rule out AvPD or BPD. The vast majority of folks exhibiting strong traits of those disorders are "high functioning." This means they tend to get along fine with casual friends, business associates, and total strangers. Their AvPD or BPD traits typically do not show at all until you draw close to them, trying to become a very close friend or partner. Only when you draw close in that manner will you start triggering the person's great abandonment fear. Until a close relationship is established, there is nothing that can be abandoned.

 

Indeed, even when you do draw close to them in a dating situation, a high functioning AvPDer or BPDer is unlikely to show any strong symptoms during the courtship period -- which typically lasts at least 4 to 6 months. The reason is that her infatuation over the new partner will hold her fear at bay, convincing her that he is too nearly perfect to pose a threat. Given that you have not yet met this woman physically, I would not expect you to be seeing any strong AvPD or BPD traits -- even if she really does suffer from such traits. This is why I suggested you familiarize yourself with the warning signs as a precaution "in the unlikely event that you two ever meet physically."

About 70% of BPDers report that they had been abandoned or abused in early childhood, typically by a parent who was emotionally unavailable. I've seen no figures for AvPDers but I suspect it would be similar.

 

All very true.

 

OP, please take what Downtown is saying into consideration. An ex-boyfriend of mine is diagnosed BPD and very high-functioning. He is respected in his job, well-liked in his community and generally viewed as a great man.

 

Only those of us who have gotten close enough to really know him ever see the other side. Because we are the ones who trigger that fear. And let me tell you, the fallout is very ugly. More than two years after that relationship ended, I am still healing.

 

This girl is already running away. Let her go. If you think what you are seeing now is difficult, imagine what you have not seen yet. She has a lot of work to do before she's emotionally healthy enough to be in a relationship.

[mikeylo]

He cannot fix this issue. She needs to address the underlying problem before she can enter a relationship.

 

Therefore, he needs to respect his own healthy boundaries. It's not wise to compromise our own emotional well-being to appease someone else who has not addressed her own problems, particularly when he has never met her.

 

Just one of those moments when I regret posting something on these forums , lol !

 

Well, I didn't mean what you inferred from it. I would rather keep the explanation to myself. Easier to do that , than to explain what I meant.

[C.JunioR]

All very true.

 

OP, please take what Downtown is saying into consideration. An ex-boyfriend of mine is diagnosed BPD and very high-functioning. He is respected in his job, well-liked in his community and generally viewed as a great man.

 

Only those of us who have gotten close enough to really know him ever see the other side. Because we are the ones who trigger that fear. And let me tell you, the fallout is very ugly. More than two years after that relationship ended, I am still healing.

 

This girl is already running away. Let her go. If you think what you are seeing now is difficult, imagine what you have not seen yet. She has a lot of work to do before she's emotionally healthy enough to be in a relationship.

Would you be willing to share your story, or is there a thread about it already? BPD might be something that I might have to watch out for.

Just one of those moments when I regret posting something on these forums , lol !

 

Well, I didn't mean what you inferred from it. I would rather keep the explanation to myself. Easier to do that , than to explain what I meant.

 

I think I do know what you mean, I would not wish to abandon her because of abandonment issues ironically, but if she is insistent on pushing me away (her way of manipulating the circumstances so i don't have the chance to potentially 'abandon' her) and doesn't seek help, then there's nothing much i can do.