Truth, lies, misrepresntation,manipulation

[Winterina]

Seems like my bf and I have different views on what truth is. He lied to me few times in the past, each time apologizing and promising it will never happen again.

Now he started new job. Few days ago he told me that THEY at work told him to buy himself warmer boots because winter is coming. I asked - who they? He said, they, the Dutch people. Three days later I asked him who are the people he works with (because I haven't heard a whole lot just that there is a guy and two girls) and he starts explaining about the guy and then about the girl "she is the one that told me about the boots". I asked him why would he lie before that it was they the Dutch people when it was her, the girl that told him that.

So he went on at me: "I didn't do anything, I didn't lie, what is wrong with you, half of the people on earth are women and I will have to work with them..." He also said he did not know he was coming home to a detective.

For me the conversation was over.

I was just wondering why would he tell me that THEY, the Dutch people told him something when it was in fact a girl. He said that they all were talking about it but she was the one who told him that so he was telling me the truth before when he said THEY told him and he was telling me the truth now when he said "the girl that told him about boots" while describing her.

 

 

A week ago he was telling me that the photo he took of half naked girl on the balcony across the street was just to test the camera. Later it turned out, because I realised he got a camera from sister for his bday which is in the winter, that camera zoom was just a means to get to see the chick on the balcony... And he admitted that saying that when he told me he was just testing the camera, that it was obvious that he was taking a pic of her so he did not have to mention that. I asked him few times at the time really, you were just testing a camera and it happened to be on a chick, he confirmed and said he was just testing the camera. That drew me crazy, the fact he was trying to play me for an idiot and I asked him to move out. He admitted later it was a woman he was making pic of. It didn't even matter to me. Him thinking I am idiot and BSing me like that is a big thing. Ruins intimacy and closeness and I my sex drive and everything in relationship. Why couldn't he have just said he was taking a photo of someone??

Just to make sure, I do not have any problems with him talking to women at work and with him taking a photo of a girl at the time we did not even know each other. BUT I do have problem with manipulation of the truth. It kills trust and then I will have to second guess every word that comes out of his mouth and what is the relationship then about.

 

 

Anyway, the question is if a partner lied to you a few times before and is now telling you the story like the one from work and who told him about the goddamn boots would you think that he didn't try to hold back the fact it was a woman he was talking to? Would it make you think why oh why was he hiding that or would you believe a guy who lied before about how he was telling the truth and was not trying to misrepresent anything? Would you believe his explanation about that story, especially considering the history?

[GemmaUK]

Both incidences are so minor that I wouldn't think twice about it.

 

 

The boots thing, if 'a' person had suggested buying warmer boots to me and everyone else agreed I would also say 'they' said this. I wouldn't be lying but more saying that it was a joint suggestion.

[Priv]

Him taking a pic of a naked woman on a balcony before he met you is reason enough for you to ask him to move out?

 

 

I agree with GemmaUK on the boots thing. It was nothing really. If I am perfectly honest, and have only read this post of you, I would 'misrepresent' the truth constantly because of fear of persecution.

 

 

Besides that... Dutch people Know stuff, they just do...

[Winterina]

Read again, I said I had nothing against any of it but lying about it. So no, the reason I asked him to move out is because he bs-ed me about something not because he took a pic of a half naked chick before he knew me.

My logic is that if he cannot tell me about these little insignificant things the way they really happened, how can I trust him with bigger things. I don't care about any of those things, only lying. And he has done that before several times, for real, looked me in the eyes and told me he never would lie to me about that and turned out he did. So with that history it is hard to trust someone EVEN when he is telling the truth, let alone when he tells two versions of the same story. If I did not have lies from the past with him maybe I would believe him now but I just don't. I don't disbelieve him, I just don't believe him either.

[GemmaUK]

The camera thing I would have said 'oh yes of course you were just testing it!' and laughed realising exactly what he took the pic for.

It was him acting the innocent in my view and I would have found it funny.

 

 

The boots just wasn't a lie.

 

 

If in your mind these are lies then you two are not compatible.

Shared values are important in a relationship.

[d0nnivain]

A pattern of lying even about stupid trivial stuff is a problem. If someone lies about the garbage, it's impossible to trust them about the big stuff.

 

The camera & voyeurism is a bigger problem then the boots. What difference does it make that a female co-worker suggested he buy warmed boots? What is wrong with him that he felt the need to hide that from you?

[lucy_in_disguise]

I dont think he was lying in either situation. But i do think u are looking for reasons not to trust him. Why do u think that is?

[Winterina]

I dont think he was lying in either situation. But i do think u are looking for reasons not to trust him. Why do u think that is?

 

Lucy, if a guy was trying to take a photo of a chick and told you he was just testing camera, it would be the same as if I went and flirted in a pub with a guy and told him I was just sitting on a chair.

 

 

I am not looking for reasons... he gave me plenty already. He lied about taking some girl to the show, did not tell me about it, told me he never ever thought of her as anything more than a friend, then it turned out he told his other friend she was his date... Then he was lying to me about smoking weed, then about porn... None of these things were out of the reach, I just asked him to cut it all down from being stoned every day and from watching it ever day... but he felt he needed to lie. So even when I had some flexibility about things he lied. I don't get it.

So he lied even when he did not need to but I need to trust that he is not doing that any more ever even though it is periodically repeating...

I want him either to let me go, or stop his BS. I told him from day one that intimacy and closeness for me mean being honest, even if brutally honest.

Honesty is not telling stuff that is easy to tell but honesty is something that involves telling truth when it is hard to tell it. He also needs to trust me in that sense that he can tell me anything. I do not see how I deserved his lies or half truths.

[Winterina]

A pattern of lying even about stupid trivial stuff is a problem. If someone lies about the garbage, it's impossible to trust them about the big stuff.

 

The camera & voyeurism is a bigger problem then the boots. What difference does it make that a female co-worker suggested he buy warmed boots? What is wrong with him that he felt the need to hide that from you?

 

That is what I am wondering too.

He thinks he did not hide anything and tells me how he was telling me truth before and now... even though before impression he was trying to give me is that people told him something when it was in fact one person. Stupid, but ruins things. Maybe he really thinks he did not do anything wrong and he did not lie, but that is why I started this thread by saying that me and my bf have different perspective on what is truth.

[Assasda]

I dont understand the boots thing.

Could the girl be Dutch?

Seems pretty trivial.

 

Anyway, you shouldnt accept the lies at all

[GemmaUK]

Lucy, if a guy was trying to take a photo of a chick and told you he was just testing camera, it would be the same as if I went and flirted in a pub with a guy and told him I was just sitting on a chair.

 

 

I am not looking for reasons... he gave me plenty already. He lied about taking some girl to the show, did not tell me about it, told me he never ever thought of her as anything more than a friend, then it turned out he told his other friend she was his date... Then he was lying to me about smoking weed, then about porn... None of these things were out of the reach, I just asked him to cut it all down from being stoned every day and from watching it ever day... but he felt he needed to lie. So even when I had some flexibility about things he lied. I don't get it.

So he lied even when he did not need to but I need to trust that he is not doing that any more ever even though it is periodically repeating...

I want him either to let me go, or stop his BS. I told him from day one that intimacy and closeness for me mean being honest, even if brutally honest.

Honesty is not telling stuff that is easy to tell but honesty is something that involves telling truth when it is hard to tell it. He also needs to trust me in that sense that he can tell me anything. I do not see how I deserved his lies or half truths.

 

 

 

None of this was in your first post and we can't mind read.

 

 

Just dump him.

[OwMyEyeball]

Anyway, the question is if a partner lied to you a few times before and is now telling you the story like the one from work and who told him about the goddamn boots would you think that he didn't try to hold back the fact it was a woman he was talking to? Would it make you think why oh why was he hiding that or would you believe a guy who lied before about how he was telling the truth and was not trying to misrepresent anything? Would you believe his explanation about that story, especially considering the history?

Once someone has broken your trust to the point that these trivialities become hot button issues, then it's time to eject the partner. Otherwise you'll just end up driving yourself mad with these types of ridiculous inquiries.

 

The boot incident on its own would have me questioning your mental state. However, if it was preceded by numerous and more serious breaches of trust, I'd understand how you'd come to this point.

 

People who make a habit out of lying aren't even worth the time of day - at least from my point of view. Trust is precious. One of the few aspects of life that cannot be bought or sold. Only earned.

[lucy_in_disguise]

Re: the camera, in my opinion, its so obvious he took the picture of the girl that i would not consider that a lie so much as a joke.

 

However, the other examples put this into context. I can see why you would have to question him constantly... Sounds exhausting. Just dump him!

[Winterina]

Re: the camera, in my opinion, its so obvious he took the picture of the girl that i would not consider that a lie so much as a joke.

 

However, the other examples put this into context. I can see why you would have to question him constantly... Sounds exhausting. Just dump him!

 

 

 

It was not a joke, I asked again and again - really? you were just testing the camera and he kept insisting he did. Later after I asked him to move out and he did, and I asked him to stop taking me for an idiot, he said well, it was obvious that I took a photo of her so I did not think I needed to say that... which is another BS because he kept telling me he did not specifically take photo of her but just tested the camera. I do not care, really, that he did, and would not even remembered it in 15 min, but lie and bs I will remember as it ruins the core of the relationship.

 

 

I do not need a guy that tells me everything he thinks I want to hear. Why to kill the interest. Just tell me the way that things are and we will take it from there. If it works it works if it doesn't it doesn't. No big tragedy.

[Winterina]

Once someone has broken your trust to the point that these trivialities become hot button issues, then it's time to eject the partner. Otherwise you'll just end up driving yourself mad with these types of ridiculous inquiries.

 

The boot incident on its own would have me questioning your mental state. However, if it was preceded by numerous and more serious breaches of trust, I'd understand how you'd come to this point.

 

People who make a habit out of lying aren't even worth the time of day - at least from my point of view. Trust is precious. One of the few aspects of life that cannot be bought or sold. Only earned.

 

 

 

Yup, I AM myself questioning my mental state. I used to be fun and happy and confident and all that when I met him. Now I am focusing all my energy on trying to forget his lies from the past and these semi truths these days. I am trying to do the impossible and regain a trust in a man that has not been truthful about things... SAD THING IS THAT if he did tell me the truth about things, I would probably feel closer to him and it would soon become a non issue. My ex and I did get closer after he told me some things that are hard to admit to anyone, let alone your gd. But lies have long term devastating effect on the most important value of any relationship and if they are coming one after another (and each time it I hear the promise it will be the last one and things have changed now) it is like watching the snowball go down the hill and gain force, become faster and bigger and the way back to the top seems more and more far away the more things pile up... Now I reached the point that I think since he is convinced he is an honest man despite admitting to at least 4 lies, and I consider him a guy who lies to cover up things, we have a different view on what honesty is. For him anything short of putting penis into someone is faithfulness and nothing is happening. For me loyalty is something a way different, something that is felt and not just put into formal terms, like if I do not kiss and sleep with anyone I am loyal. If she comes home with me I don't care with whom was she flirting and cuddling is more of his attitude. He said this once but when he realised I have completely different views on these things, he changed his story. I don't believe that he feels any different about that issue, I just feel that he wants to say what I want to hear. Great relationship, eh? I wish he grew the f up. He is 39 so that is not likely to happen.

[Winterina]

Boot incident was just a symptom of something deeper. Even if he was really not trying to manipulate me, he is just going to have to accept that I cannot trust a guy who lied to me and manipulated the truth to have the desired effect. So he made his own bed and now he has to face the consequences of it. Its really simple, if people lie to you, you are not going to trust them sometimes even when they are telling the truth. Like with the boy who cried wolf.

 

 

I started disliking the person that I became throughout this ordeal. It really affects self esteem if you have to act like detective dip**** all the time. It is exhausting me and leaves me deflated, I am not working out, I cannot do my job, enjoy my life, all that for the lack of energy.

 

 

He is suggesting we go to counselling but I do not see how can anyone affect my trust towards him and how could someone else convince him to stop his BS and become a man that is not afraid of his gf for no reason other than anticipated reaction. If I will be pissed for the truth then I will be pissed for the next hour or a day, but there will be no long term effects. I know this from experience. Blah, it is 4 in the morning here and I am exhausted.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Winterina

[Rejected Rosebud]

The bottom line is you don't trust him whether warranted or not, and a relationship can't be good without trust, so I don't think this is going to have a happy ending, I'm sorry.

[FitChick]

Dutch people wear wooden shoes.

[Priv]

Dutch people wear wooden shoes.

 

This, they are warm and sturdy and make a cool clapping sound when walking. They also make you seem taller... Which is why the Dutch are generally considered one of the tallest peoples.

 

 

I keep mine cushioned with mini blankets in the winter to keep warm and bare in summer so the cool air can reach my toes while being totally hip in my wooden shoes.

 

 

Like I said, Duch people know things...

[Thegreatestthing]

I suspect that he doesn't tell you the truth because he doesn't want to upset you or make you angry,and likely he knows what makes you angry.

 

Saying the people at work told him to get boots instead of a girl at work does not constitute lying in my opinion,and really who cares.

 

Read again, I said I had nothing against any of it but lying about it. So no, the reason I asked him to move out is because he bs-ed me about something not because he took a pic of a half naked chick before he knew me.

My logic is that if he cannot tell me about these little insignificant things the way they really happened, how can I trust him with bigger things. I don't care about any of those things, only lying. And he has done that before several times, for real, looked me in the eyes and told me he never would lie to me about that and turned out he did. So with that history it is hard to trust someone EVEN when he is telling the truth, let alone when he tells two versions of the same story. If I did not have lies from the past with him maybe I would believe him now but I just don't. I don't disbelieve him, I just don't believe him either.

[Poppygoodwill]

If someone has a pattern of lying and lying by omission, then that might be a cause for concern, no doubt.

 

However, there's something about the way you present this whole thing, about the tone of your posts and the force of your anger and indignation, that makes me suspect that you are part of the problem here. At least part. None of the examples you have cited are black and white cases of betrayal, even if they are omissions of part of the picture. You are clearly very very sensitive to any potential sign of lies or betrayal.

 

This makes me think two things:

 

you have been betrayed and are still suffering the hurt of it. Therefore, you do not have a clear perspective on your bf's behaviour.

 

The degree of your sensitivity has put him in the position of walking on eggshells so he skims over things to avoid upsetting you. I would too, based just on the tone of your posts.

 

But all in all, if you are so convinced that he is not trustworthy that you ask him to move out, then it's best he go because neither of you can - or should - live in a home where there is such profound mistrust. There's no future there.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Poppygoodwill

[Winterina]

If someone has a pattern of lying and lying by omission, then that might be a cause for concern, no doubt.

 

However, there's something about the way you present this whole thing, about the tone of your posts and the force of your anger and indignation, that makes me suspect that you are part of the problem here. At least part. None of the examples you have cited are black and white cases of betrayal, even if they are omissions of part of the picture. You are clearly very very sensitive to any potential sign of lies or betrayal.

 

This makes me think two things:

 

you have been betrayed and are still suffering the hurt of it. Therefore, you do not have a clear perspective on your bf's behaviour.

 

The degree of your sensitivity has put him in the position of walking on eggshells so he skims over things to avoid upsetting you. I would too, based just on the tone of your posts.

 

But all in all, if you are so convinced that he is not trustworthy that you ask him to move out, then it's best he go because neither of you can - or should - live in a home where there is such profound mistrust. There's no future there.

 

 

 

What do you mean there was no black and white cases of betrayal? He himself knows he lied about several things. Even when he did not have to because we had a deal about things. He lied about taking other woman to the show... he lied about never thinking of her as anything more than a friend and then I find out he was referring to her as his date... He lied about smoking... he lied about porn... he lied about the real reasons for some trivial things... he lied he was just working and sleeping so he did not have time for me when in fact he was out and drinking every night...

So that is pretty much a black and white case of betrayal of trust.

 

 

It has nothing to do with my past except that it reminds me of one of my exes who was a sociopath and pathological liar. I give people a clean bill in the beginning and expect the best to happen... This thing developed over the past 15 month. It was not always that I doubted things he said. So the fact that he is walking on eggshelves now, if that's what he is doing, is the bed he made for himself.

Yes, I am hurt to the core. This is the guy I thought was the love of my life and vice versa... Now I cannot digest the thought of being with someone forever who failed miserably even the simplest test of life. Even if he is afraid of my reaction he should still tell me the truth. Otherwise, he is a total pussy who is afraid of his own gf. Who needs that **** in life, not me and not him.