Falling for widower

[browneyes88]

Here's my dilemma. I (female) have a friend and former coworker who I am falling hard for. I'm 26, and he's 36.

 

This is where it gets complicated. Six months ago, his wife passed away in a car accident. She was only 34, leaving him and their 4 year old daughter. He and I were already friends even before the accident, and had worked together about a year. In fact, I have to admit that I was attracted to him then, and he even very lightly flirted with me once or twice, but nothing crossing the line at the time. I always liked him as a person, and we worked together and talked a lot. I left that job and started my new one in February, about a month before his wife died, so we kept in touch via Facebook.

 

When his wife died, a couple weeks later, I asked if he needed help with his daughter or just taking care of things, since he had returned to work and was trying to manage the household. He accepted.

 

Over the next few months, I would be at his house 2 or 3 times a week, sometimes cooking for them, or helping him with laundry, or just playing with his daughter. Most of their family is in Canada, and he (and I) are in PA, so they don't have anyone else around. I live less than half a mile away, so it's easy to stop by. They also have been at my place a couple times.

 

Eventually, our relationship turned into a much deeper friendship, we would have long conversations, either in person or online, about not just his grieving, but everything. I started to realize that this guy really is someone I could see myself with. I honestly had no alterior motives here, I really, truly just wanted to help him get his life back together. Then this happened.

 

To try to get a feel for him, I asked him how he was doing last week. He said that while he still misses his wife a lot, and always will, he's feeling better than he has in a long time and in his heart has accepted that she is gone.

 

I then asked "is dating again something you see yourself doing at any point"? I felt OK asking since we were talking just that moment about a couple dates I have been on, so I was able to slide that question in as relevant.

 

His reply nearly floored me - he said "well, yes, actually. Probably not a blind date, but someone who I know and trust, somebody I feel I already know, yeah" and then he smiled at me. I asked "what about XXXX (daughter's name)" and he said "well, if she's somebody I know then to XXXX, she is already Dad's friend and that's a good explanation unless things got serious later."

 

I don't want to feel like I am trying to slide in and knock this grieving man off his feet, but at the same time, I truly think "something" could be there. However, I don't want him to date too soon.

 

Our age difference seems large, but we click so well. Lately we laugh the whole time we are together, and especially when I hang around after his daughter goes to bed at night.

 

What would you do?

 

I've thought about a couple things.

 

One would be just "let it go". If he wants to ask me out, he will.

 

Another idea is, drop some strong hints, but leave it up to him. We already snuggle on the couch watching TV, this is a new thing the last couple weeks that we both just seemed to start doing. We have even held hands once or twice. I thought about stepping that up some. Finding reasons to touch him.

 

Or maybe I just ask HIM out. Any ideas?

 

Am I a horrible person for wanting this? I know he has a kid, which usually would be a bit of a negative, but I adore his daughter and we get along great. Right now I'm "their" friend as she sees it, and even if a relationship happens we would probably keep it at that distance in her eyes, unless we got truly serious, although obviously I haven't discussed it with him.

[ThorntonMelon]

One would be just "let it go". If he wants to ask me out, he will.

 

Yes, this is true.

 

Another idea is, drop some strong hints, but leave it up to him. We already snuggle on the couch watching TV, this is a new thing the last couple weeks that we both just seemed to start doing. We have even held hands once or twice. I thought about stepping that up some. Finding reasons to touch him.

 

Nope.

 

Or maybe I just ask HIM out. Any ideas?

 

Nope

 

Am I a horrible person for wanting this? I know he has a kid, which usually would be a bit of a negative, but I adore his daughter and we get along great. Right now I'm "their" friend as she sees it, and even if a relationship happens we would probably keep it at that distance in her eyes, unless we got truly serious, although obviously I haven't discussed it with him.

 

The odds of you being his rebound are unbelievably high. Yes, I've heard of it happening and working out, but way more often you end up getting dumped 6 months later so he can find himself. Plus you will be compared to his ex and have to support him through his grieving for another woman, which is admirable, but hard to do for a man you love.

 

Further, right now you're his (female) knight in shining armor. Your relationship is completely shaped through that role. Needy him, giving you....over time that dynamic would have to change and you have no evidence at all that it would successfully.

 

All I'm saying is this thing ends with your heart shattered far more often than it ends in death do us part. I dated a widower, and in retrospect I would have made her really, really come to me after a lot of dating and soul searching, rather than have been first in and basically a sitting duck when she needed to find herself 5 months later.

 

Just $.02 from someone who's been there.

[carhill]

1. How long was he married? I presume 4-5 years minimum.

 

2. While he says he's accepting his wife's passing, have his actions mirrored that?

 

3. What's your respective relationship/familial history and how does it mesh with his?

 

Personally, I'd dial back the snuggling part and keep things at the friendship level unless he formally desires to date you. It's easy to become a wife substitute during this transition period. If he asks why, simply respond that you prefer to snuggle with men you're dating and leave it at that. if you can do it in the style of Kate Hepburn or Ava Gardner, he'll get the point. If a man doesn't ask you out on an official romantic date at that point, fuggetabout it. That's practically shooting fish in a barrel.

 

That's my .02 as an old fart. YMMV!

[GemmaUK]

Don't ask him out.

 

Let this workout naturally..

 

Six months is a real short time..so sad.

 

You are being that rock that he needs though. (but don't always be there...keep your life too)

 

Clearly both he and his child think a lot of you and you do them.

 

Just carry on as you are...let it happen if it is going to happen.

 

Don't push it with him.

Don't ask. That is way too much pressure this soon.

 

Be patient.

You may well have all the time in the world. Push too hard and he could run. Take it as it comes and he may not want to let you go.

 

He is always going to love the wife he lost..you have to remember that and respect it.

But..you also don't want to be his rebound for support etc.

Rebounds never last.

 

If you are there for the long haul he might be too but in his situation that requires patience.

[browneyes88]

Carhill, I like your idea about the snuggling.

 

I have thought about the rebound thing, and it does worry me. Although since we knew each other to some degree already, and I felt there was a connection, that keeps my hope alive that something else could happen. It's horrible in hindsight to even mention this, but I seem to remember thinking to myself that I better back off since he's married. Then I took my new job and it wasn't an issue anyway.

 

For what it's worth, there has been a change in him lately. The last few times I've been over, he has had the house clean, and/or dinner cooked and it felt much more like HIM entertaining ME, than the other way around. That is a change I have noticed recently. Also, he smiles more, he is posting on his blog again. Just things suggesting "returning to normal", or whatever version of it exists, now.

 

He also recently started going golfing again, something he gave up when his wife died. He has made a point to tell me that his daycare provider is willing to babysit extra after hours (she's someone who has taken care of his daughter since her birth) as well so he can get out of the house some.

I appreciate all the advice, however, and will take it to heart.

[browneyes88]

Oh, he was married 7 years.

 

What do you mean relationship and familial history? I have been in a couple long term relationships.

[carhill]

So he got married at about your age, which means he likely had a relationship with his deceased wife for sometime prior. Other relationships? How have things gone for you? No need to answer publicly, rather just reflect on things privately. I'm mentioning it because you've apparently been emotionally involved with him and/or attracted to him at some level for some time, even prior to his wife's untimely demise, so it sounds pretty serious on your end. For example, during that period, boyfriend/dating/etc?

 

I asked about family again because it appears you're pretty serious about this guy, based on a lengthly close friendship. The tone of your posting is one of someone who would like to be his next wife. To me, if correct, that's pretty serious. Hence the mention of family, since family is a big part of marriage, and respects that his family likely loved his now deceased wife and are involved with his child, as are the child's maternal family. All part of the 'stuff'.

 

In the end, though, it all goes back to the beginning. He's a mature man, he's been married, he's made babies, he knows how to prosecute a relationship with a woman, as well as show attraction to a woman. He demonstrated that with his successful marriage which unfortunately met an untimely demise. He can do it again. He's well aware that women don't snuggle with men like the man's sister. He's not ignorant. When he's ready, if he's ready, if he's interested, he'll act. If you're there, that's an answer. Only you can decide whether or not you'll be there.

[browneyes88]

OK, I get what you mean.

 

Well, for most of the time he and I worked at the same company, I was dating one guy on and off. It was really only a step above a FWB type thing, he was actually the one that wanted more, but for some reason, I didn’t see a future there. Since then I’ve been on one or two dates with a couple guys, but haven’t had any dates in about 4 months. I do go out with friends and do other things, so I’m still living my life.

 

I was almost engaged to my last long-term boyfriend (we broke up in Dec. 2012) but I found out some things about him I couldn’t accept (drug use, other things) and broke it off.

 

So his family is your concern? I get that. I’m not sure how his inlaws would look upon him dating someone else. I imagine they’d accept it, but maybe not this soon. His dad I have met (his mother is deceased) and seemed to like me, but of course that was as me being a friend.

[preraph]

You've already dropped the hint. Now it's time to sit back patiently and let him move at his own pace. It's still very soon for him to have processed everything. Sounds to me like he thinks about dating you but just isn't quite there yet. You need to not drop any more hints and just keep being kind and one of these days he'll escalate it IF he doesn't have some other person he already knows in mind for the part, which would be tragic but you never know. If you start seeing any signs he's dating, then you'll know. And you'd be the first to know since you're providing child care.

[browneyes88]

I am not his child are provider. He has another person he and his wife used since his daughter was a baby.

 

I would definitely babysit if he asked, but he has not. I have really just entertained her at their house and maybe given him a quick break so he could do something around the house or yard, it's not like I watch her while he is out or at work.

[carhill]

Yeah, depending on specifics, as every person and M are unique, it could be a couple years before the person is 'all-in'.

 

Oh, heck, I have an anecdote which can support the contrary:

 

A close friend of my exW (former BF when they were young) experienced a similar loss when his first wife was killed in a car accident along with his unborn son (8.5 months along). Horrific tragedy due to street racing as she was leaving the car dealership to test drive a new car that they felt would be 'safer' with the new addition to the family. IIRC, they had been married about 12 years at that point.

 

Anyway, huge amount of despair. We went down for the funeral and there was a huge party at his place after and, apparently after we left, there was a orgy of sorts in the hot tub and he had an interlude with one of his deceased W's female friends.

 

Fast forward about two years later they're married and he has a little son. TBH, I knew his now wife before, when she was a friend of his W's, and she was the independent sort that didn't let men keep her down; I liked her because she worked in my industry, which can be brutal on women. She keeps him in line!

 

So, there's an anecdote which supports that things don't have to take forever and early interest and relations don't have to be a rebound. Every situation is unique.

[browneyes88]

Apparently I just needed to be patient for a few more hours.

 

He just called me and asked me out to dinner Saturday, just the two of us!

 

So...I guess now I see what happens!

[browneyes88]

So yes, he did ask me out! I didn't see him in person last night (wasn't planning to), but after he asked, we talked a bit. He said that I've seen him at his worst, and stayed around, and now he wants me to see him at his best.

 

It sounds like he is aware himself of the need to see if a relationship can happen in different, more normal circumstances.

 

Because of the rebound concern I'm trying not to get too psyched up about anything right now, but I don't want to seem uninterested, either.

[acrosstheuniverse]

Glad to hear he asked you out, however things pan out at least the waiting to see if he bites is over, and you can see where this goes. Better than sitting around for many more months and constantly wondering how he feels.

 

However, you're right not to get too psyched. It can take a long time to grieve for somebody. I can only speak from my own situation grieving my Mother, but I found that it wasn't until six months later that it actually started to properly hit me that she was gone for good. Until then it was mostly shock, but after that I realised she was gone forever and it was incredibly difficult to get through. He will likely have many feelings of missing her, sadness that his daughter has lost her mother, possible guilt at moving on to another relationship before even the first anniversary has passed, concern at what friends/family might think, and so forth. Maybe not, but that's typical of grief and losing a wife of seven years with whom you have a small child is a hell of a hole to start to emotionally fill back in.

 

So yeah, don't get your hopes up. Grief is often a long and complex process. They say don't date anyone who hasn't been divorced at least a year or two as it takes that long to grieve for the marriage and move on. I think for a bereavement it might be even tougher... just bear in mind that while he might enjoy your company, believe he has feelings for you, feel comfort from the physical side of things, it's possible that a few months down the line he might turn around and realise he's not ready and needs to be alone/play the field or whatever.

 

Try and just treat it as a date, nothing more. And if you're seriously interested in him, spend a little less time around him so he has chance to see how he feels without you there. Because at the moment he's getting the benefits of your presence and help, and while it's admirable you're doing this, you have feelings for him so it's not as simple as if you were just friends. You will end up hurt if you spend tonnes of time around him, get close to his child, and then he tells you he can't be more than friends, or he meets somebody else. Plus it will be difficult for his child if she has lost her mother, started spending so much time with another woman so soon after (as a mother figure it seems) and then you disappear too.

 

Good luck but tread carefully. He knows that you're interested, trust me. You've been around enough and done enough for him. He isn't going to start thinking you've lost interest as long as you're enthusiastically accepting dates.

[Toodaloo]

Agh browneyes please PLEASE be very careful.

 

Many years ago I was deeply in love with a widower and he with me. We were inseparable. His wife had died 2 years previously so I thought there had been enough time.

 

We were devoted to each other. As far as "the one" he was it. The children loved me as I love them. No one needed to ask - they could see how deeply in love we were.

 

Then the children started to realise that I was not their "mother" never would be and they turned. Instead of sticking up for me and dealing with their behaviour and helping them with their emotions he isolated me, tried to "protect" them. A while later out of the blue he stopped talking to me. I mean literally stopped talking to me at all.

 

I ended up leaving with nothing but my car, three small boxes of clothes and a nervous breakdown. I had no children, no home, no money, no sanity. Since then I have struggled to "feel" emotion. I have felt unworthy, rejected and involved myself in sucky relationships.

 

You know what makes it worse. Our joint friends sometimes comment that the light went out of his eyes when I left and its never come back. One of his daughters told me about 2 months ago that although she hated me at the time I was what she needed and she wished that I were still there. She is grown up now and travelling the world. His son asked me once why I had forgotten his birthday (I had a pile of cards and presents that had been returned under my bed all unopened for many years before I could throw them away).

 

I can't even be in the same room as him even after all this time. I miss my step children EVERY day. Every day it feels as though something is missing in my heart.

 

It has taken well over a decade, some really crappy relationships and a lot of tears for me to smile again. My smile has only just started reached my eyes in the last month or so and its taken a lot of tears to get there. Even typing this I have tears rolling down my face.

 

Please. Please. Tread VERY carefully. 6 months is no time at all.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Toodaloo
Spelling Errors

[browneyes88]

That’s good advice.

 

Ironically, one of the things he said to me last week was that he can handle being alone a lot better now. He just donated all of his wife’s clothing and some of her non-valuable and non-sentimental belongings (things like purses, books, etc) to Salvation Army. He is definitely moving on, but I get your concern.

 

Although we talk almost daily, I only see him and his daughter maybe 2-3 times per week. I also encouraged him to get out with his male friends more and he has been doing that, although there is only so much time in a week, and he doesn’t feel right leaving his daughter with a sitter all that often, which I do understand.

 

I can handle taking it slow. My concern is sex. I’d jump his bones right now if I knew it wouldn’t screw things up. It’s been a while for me regardless, plus as you know I’m getting pretty strong feelings for him which makes it even worse.

 

Usually, I’m a go with the flow girl, sex happens when you’re both ready, but in this case, I don’t want to push too fast, because it could affect both his mind as well as mine. Or am I overthinking this?

 

I am thinking that if the date goes well and we have a second one, that might be the time for a sex talk. I can hold off at least that long, lol.

[Emilia]

Just to wish you good luck. Wouldn't mind a happy story on LS every once in a while.

[acrosstheuniverse]

I wouldn't even have a 'sex talk': too awkward, too much pressure. Let him dictate the speed of sex, when he's ready, but feel free to stop him if you haven't yet had clarification on what the relationship is between you (you might not want to sleep with him if that's all it's ever gonna be).

[Toodaloo]

 

I can handle taking it slow. My concern is sex. I’d jump his bones right now if I knew it wouldn’t screw things up.

 

Sex is the least of your worries. Right up until the very end the least we ever had sex was 3 times a day. Averaged out at around 5... and it was not a case of quantity over quality if you get my drift...! The quality was always there! He is the only man I have ever known who could keep up with my "appetite"!

 

Its the emotions. Both he and his daughter will be up and down like yoyos for years. It will come when they least expect it. It will come at every special occasion like Christmas, New Year, Birthdays. They may love you very deeply but they will always still love Mummy. Its not like a divorce or break up where they can have some sort of grudge or reason behind it. There is no reason for them. They won't remember the arguments or the smelly farts or the way she picked her nose. They will remember a "perfected" version as any of us do when we loose the people we love. You have to respect that. getting over death is a lot more than disposing of clothes.

 

I also strongly recommend that if it gets to the point of living together you both move to somewhere new together.

 

I am still vaguely in touch with 2 out of 4 of the children through their choice. The three that were vile and caused problems all came and found me within 3 months to say sorry, that they missed me and wished they hadn't behaved the way they did. It was not their fault. They were children. He just couldn't deal with the emotions and had no clue what to do about it. He should have left some of it to me, but as the "newcommer" and their father he tried to deal with it himself when he couldn't cope with his own emotions.

 

I know this man still loves me. I also know that I can not ever risk going near him again or I will loose my sanity again.

 

I have very fond memories of him. But as I say. tread very very carefully and very very slowly. This sort of relationship can destroy you very easily, with no real reason and from out of the blue.

[carhill]

Considering their loss was sudden and unexpected and, generally, deaths from car accidents are pretty gruesome, has the family (man and daughter) had any grief counseling?

[browneyes88]

I tend to be somewhat forward with men I am interested in, but will tone it down and let him lead.

[browneyes88]

Considering their loss was sudden and unexpected and, generally, deaths from car accidents are pretty gruesome, has the family (man and daughter) had any grief counseling?

 

Yes, they are still in it. I wonder if his counselor knows about the date.

[Toodaloo]

The biggest problem my ex and the children had was that they did/ do love me very much. But they also love their Mum.

 

I wouldn't have been there if Mum was still about.

 

So the fact that they love(d) me and wanted me there and enjoyed being with me was a massive conflict and caused a lot of angst, guilt, bitterness, sadness, self loathing etc in them at times when they were happy and enjoying themselves... It would come at the weirdest of times for them. While trying some new food or doing things that they probably wouldn't have done with their Mum for example. or it might be driving down a road and she had cracked a joke once... It comes at the strangest of times and for no reason. It is bloody difficult to deal with all of that as the new woman (I had help). Impossible unless he is fully recovered and ready to move on with his life.

 

As I say go very very slow with the emotions. They are what is going to trip you up. Treat any sex for the first couple of years as a bit of fun and a laugh. Do not "make love" for now if that makes sense.

 

Talk to him. If he is still in counselling I would suggest this is far too soon.

 

I know you probably don't want to listen to me but the happiest times of my life also nearly destroyed me. I went from a very happy, content woman who always smiled to a wreck that would pace up and down a room for days on end, not eating, drinking or stopping to go to the loo. It was only the devotion of my mother and a very good friend that prevented me from ending my life and/ or being committed to an asylum. I am not exaggerating time scales/ emotions or happenings and I am not making grand sweeping generalisations... I lost everything. I was homeless, had hardly any of my "things", I was temporarily insane, I couldn't work, I couldn't love the way I used to before, I still don't trust very easily. I have had to rebuild from the ground up.

 

Be very careful, you seem hooked already... that is dangerous.

[browneyes88]

Thanks for your replies, Toodaloo, and I’m very sorry to hear what you’ve gone through and wish you only happiness from here forward. I will heed your advice carefully. My grandfather died 2 years ago (suddenly, from a heart attack, he wasn’t sick), and my grandmother (age 79) says that little things still get her crying and reminded of him.

 

Maybe towards the end of the date, depending on how the conversation is going, I’ll try to work the counselor into the conversation, maybe half jokingly say “so, does XXXX know you’re doing this?”

[acrosstheuniverse]

Maybe towards the end of the date, depending on how the conversation is going, I’ll try to work the counselor into the conversation, maybe half jokingly say “so, does XXXX know you’re doing this?”

 

I would feel super awkward if somebody said this to me... firstly it'd make me think the other person thought I was doing something wrong, or at least weird enough to warrant discussing with my counsellor, and secondly I'd hope that they already knew that anything discussed between my counsellor and I was private... if you really just want to find out what he thinks about the dating, ask him straight without a 'jokey' (he will know it's anything but!) comment such as 'so, how does it feel to be on a date again?' or something. But personally I wouldn't even ask, it raises the game too much. Just enjoy having a nice fun night. Try see it as two friends going out. I can see you're invested and therefore will likely end up hurt, I hope you don't!