Stay in a relationship that might have no future?

[edgygirl]

I'm not sure I should post in the Partnership section as we started dating this year. But I feel it's more adequate here than in the dating section.

 

I've been dating a 37 yo guy for 3 months. I am 42. We meet at least twice a week, most weeks 3 times. He introduced me to lots of his social circle, co-workers, etc. He is very rational and since the beginning he has expressed his concerns for my age and ability to have the two children he plans to have.

 

He is very successful career wise, has a good group of friends who seem to love him, and has had no problems finding people who are willing to marry him. He broke up with his ex of 4 years because he realized he didn't want to marry her as he found her too normal. Well, he has found the type of craziness he seeks... in me, but then there is the age issue. He mentioned in the past that I would be the perfect second wife (after he has the children he wants with someone else? ugh!) We are not conventional people with conventional expectations but obviously this was a bit much. I am talking only about the weird things that have been said, our relationship is extensive and much more than these weird things. We get along very well and are fascinated by each other.

 

Last weekend we traveled together to circuit visit two groups of his friends in different cities and although it was extremely fun and I really enjoyed his company as I always do, something he said pissed me off and we ended up having yet another talk while he was semi drunk. It escaped his mouth that (he's worried) my eggs are too "old". I talked about how it's possible to freeze embryos (as opposed to eggs as he once suggested) and he said that if it's not too expensive it would be worth to do it even if we are not sure yet if we are going to be together. Btw I checked the prices and although it is expensive for most people, he is successful and can afford it, if he wanted to, and it would not hurt his pocket that much I believe. But I don't see someone really doing it for someone who is not even a girlfriend yet although he is the one who suggested to do it.

 

He said he saw us together... but in the future. Not sure what he meant. It's not like he's going anywhere now. Is he not ready to find the one? He always says he is.

 

At the same time, things are comfy for him as they are. He is not going anywhere and always treats me like a girlfriend (although I'm not, officially), but he won't talk about committing. I am not sure why guys stay in relationships even when it's not what they wanted. He says he never met someone like me, and our sex life is certainly the best we both ever had. There is magic in the air although we have different personality types.

 

The truth is we are both not sure yet about each other, but the difference is I feel I am trying to know if we are relationship, long-term material, and I'm not sure his rational side will let him at least try because he keeps thinking I'm too old to have a second baby (I'm not worried about having the first one as I know at the current time I can get pregnant).

 

Although I am having my best moments romantically in years, I feel like I should walk away although I am starting to fall for him. It feels so wrong to walk away, but perhaps that's what I need to do if I want to find someone who accepts me with all that I am, age et all. I didn't want to leave though. Tried to breakup in our trip only to us both saying in the end that we didn't want to part.

 

Should I wait 1-2 more months (until we will be together for 5 months) and see if we both fall in love and things can be discussed again? What about the talk about freezing embryos? We've known each other for 3 months so it's all obviously a little scary

 

I have a feeling we all have a laundry list of what we want in life, but life shows us that love doesn't work like that. We might end up falling in love with someone who is not the ideal person we had in mind. I made my mind in the last years that I should cut off most points in my laundry list and only leave the important ones. I am happy I did. Perhaps that's a lesson he yet has to learn?

Edited April 22, 2014 by edgygirl

[dichotomy]

hoo boy.

 

Your 42 and no kids of your own yet (why? if you want them). He is 37 and same. You been dating for just a few months. Best case your looking a year out - more dating, engaged, married, get place - make babies. Now your 43 or 44 and he is 38-39. Not that this is a huge obstacle these days medically - its doable.

 

Yes you could freeze your eggs, its possible. However if you to fertilize those eggs and create embryos - I believe legally he is on the hook for ever no matter what happens (i.e. you break up and implant them - they are his). Also how many eggs or embryos you going to make and freeze? It could take alot of them as sometimes they don't take in IVF. Stimulating you to make tons eggs is not a fun process for you (lots of drugs, self injections). As far as your eggs being old - if he has the money you say he has - they can sort that issue out in IVF as well. Amazing things these days in IVF.

 

However, I believe basically what he is starting to say to you is - "its been fun with a gal like you, but its not going to work".

 

I would take the cue - and let him go.... but then.... do you want kids ?

Edited April 22, 2014 by dichotomy

[edgygirl]

Thanks dichotomy. I read about the embryo freezing and it seems both partners need to write a consent to implant them. Also, if there is a breakup, any of the partners can write and the clinic has to make them not available anymore, so I know he won't be worried because of that. Also, he is a lawyer so I'm sure he'll look into that if that's the case.

 

Honestly I am the one pressuring to know his feelings as I don't want to waste time. Feelings that he's not sure about yet. I am also not a 100% sure, so why would he be? It's been 3 months. All I wanted to hear is that he's willing to try to look into the future, to think about us together, because he likes me. Others before him have done it blindly. It didn't work. Maybe it has to go more slowly to work in the end, I don't know.

 

It doesn't really matter why me or him haven't had children. Also we live in a big metropolis, people here, both men and women usually get married in their late 30s and 40s.

 

I don't think he's leaving me anytime soon. He keeps making plans together, he's very reliable and steady. We have 2 dates already planned for this week. The question is... should I stay and wait to see if things change and he lets go of his rational side telling him I am not what he wanted age wise? And, is the wait worth it? Ugh. I know it will take me years to find someone as him again. I like him so much. But I do want a baby. One would be enough for me at this point, but it is not enough for him. He said he can't imagine a baby not having any sibling.

 

hoo boy.

 

Your 42 and no kids of your own yet (why? if you want them). He is 37 and same. You been dating for just a few months. Best case your looking a year out - more dating, engaged, married, get place - make babies. Now your 43 or 44 and he is 38-39. Not that this is a huge obstacle these days medically - its doable.

 

Yes you could freeze your eggs, its possible. However if you to fertilize those eggs and create embryos - I believe legally he is on the hook for ever no matter what happens (i.e. you break up and implant them - they are his). Also how many eggs or embryos you going to make and freeze? It could take alot of them as sometimes they don't take in IVF. Stimulating you to make tons eggs is not a fun process for you (lots of drugs, self injections). As far as your eggs being old - if he has the money you say he has - they can sort that issue out in IVF as well. Amazing things these days in IVF.

 

However, I believe basically what he is starting to say to you is - "its been fun with a gal like you, but its not going to work".

 

I would take the cue - and let him go.... but then.... do you want kids ?

[carhill]

My view as a man a bit his senior is that it's double-talk. I won't go as far as to put it in the salesman schmooze category, but certainly containing a shopping cart of disclaimers.

 

God forbid you ever become 'normal'

 

Up to you on the 'stay' part. If it works for you in the here and now and that's your style, then enjoy. If you're a bounce the grandchild on the knee with grandpa creeking back and forth in his rocker 40 years hence, well that's a different kettle of fish. Up to you.

[edgygirl]

Thanks carhill. From your post it seems you feel it's doomed to start with. Aren't most men, mainly rational ones, change the course of their life and their beliefs if they end up falling for someone even when that person is not what they had in mind?

 

I've changed a lot in the last years. All I believe I needed ended up not being as important as I thought. I am glad I am where I am emotionally although it is not where I thought I'd be. My preferences have changed in the last 5 years.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

He's keeping his options open. 37, he sees friends married or coupled up, probably the majority with kids and will have to make decisions. He is seeing a fun gal, and yes from your post I will assume that it is manly about some freaky, fun sex (and probably left of center???) and someone he is comfortable introducing to friends. Being sexist I will venture you are very attractive too.

 

Easy to have kids into later 40's, but if he really wants 2 children, I bet he will enjoy you as long as he can and then find someone in her early 30's.

 

Sorry to be blunt.

[Gaeta]

You are being a fool.

 

There is no problem with you being able to have 2 children in the next few years, women have their children later in life now and it's not uncommon they have them mid 40s and even late 40s. Last year I was on my gyno exam (I am 48) she said if I wanted babies I had her go ahead she sees pregnant women my age on her table each week. - I said thank you, but no thanks

 

Your eggs are getting too old? what an idiot! How can you stand by while he makes these inconsiderate comments. You really have time for someone this wishy washy? You got a great chemistry? meh, that's hormones talking, you're in your sexual peak, don't let it blind you.

[Emilia]

If a man doesn't want to commit, he views this as a short term thing. Despite what the ladies tell you, the signs are usually there very clearly. He isn't looking at this long term, perhaps because of fertility, perhaps for other reasons.

 

I'd run a mile from someone that dumped a long term partner for being 'too normal'. Don't misunderstand, I like a weirdo as much as the next person and can be one too (it's all relative) but I value stability and most offbeat men I know do too. It's usually those that are hung up on rollercoaster rides that don't want 'normal'.

[carhill]

Thanks carhill. From your post it seems you feel it's doomed to start with. Aren't most men, mainly rational ones, change the course of their life and their beliefs if they end up falling for someone even when that person is not what they had in mind?

 

I've changed a lot in the last years. All I believe I needed ended up not being as important as I thought. I am glad I am where I am emotionally although it is not where I thought I'd be. My preferences have changed in the last 5 years.

Relevant to the title of your thread, I don't think that 'doom' is necessarily applicable, depending upon what you desire and, as you've stated here, you've changed a lot in the last five years. IME, change is the main constant in life until death takes us, so expect to continue to change, even in some fundamental ways, throughout life.

 

If this interaction benefits you and satisfies you in the now, reflecting who you are now, and you can accept that the now may be completely different in a day or a week or a year, then why not enjoy the now for what it is, even if, now, you feel it might not have a future?

 

IMO, even if my assessment of the man was less than stellar from a 'forever you and me' standpoint, that doesn't mean he can't be a wonderful partner in the here and now. It sounds like he can. The wild card is where the essence of who you are and the essence of who he is collide. If that works, it does. If not, not. Could it change tomorrow? Yep! Since you describe yourself as 'edgy', perhaps that fits!

[Poppygoodwill]

Carhill makes a lot of sense. But I get the feeling from what you're writing that you're not entirely happy with just the here and now; you want to know about the then and later.

 

My spidey sense says that he's throwing up obstacles becuase he's thinking of this as a short term thing.

 

Sorry, but if he was thinking seriously about you, then he would be busily lookign for solutions to this 'problem' of 'old eggs' (seriously?) as opposed to stopping at all the reasons why it might be difficult.

 

People who are in love, or falling that way, overcome so many things to be together. They also naturally fall into compromise (one child, not two; adoption, egg donor, etc etc) just because they can' tdo anything else - so strong is their desire to be with their beloved.

 

Doesn't mean you won't yet fall in love, but my experience is that at three months of regular contact and you're definitely head over heels - or else you're definitely not.

 

Sounds like you guys are not.

 

I would guard my heart. Hang out with him, have fun, enjoy the sex, but don't invest too much unless he *really* puts himself forward and makes efforts toward the long term.

[StanMusial]

He is probably as crazy as you are, but wants to breed a sane female. And a younger one too.

 

Don't try to cling to something that has passed you by.

[HappyLove]

Wow don't even know where to start! I'm trying to understand how you even stand by some man who insults you the way he has! Old eggs? I see myself with you....later?! You're thinking about freezing eggs for some douche and you're not even his girlfriend! How long will you be able to keep being his "entertainment", seeing as how he doesn't like em normal and all. This guy isn't even worth going on a second date with much less freezing eggs for!

 

Screw what HE wants. What do YOU want?! Do you want to be in a relationship where your partner doesn't insult you? Do you want to be in a relationship where a man isn't afraid to claim you as his woman? Do you WANT kids? Because if you do want kids I'd advise you stop wasting time with this idiot while he uses up the precious years you have left to have your family only to dump you for a normal 25 year old.

[Eternal Sunshine]

So how come you didn't have kids earlier if that was important to you?

 

I hope you didn't just make up your mind to have kids because of this guy.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

My original comment was that he is probably happy to be in a relationship with a woman he likes and shares his desires, but yep if he wants kids then his clock is ticking if she's the one and in her 40's.

 

To OP, face it, enjoy his company have fun but understand that it's still early and while he may change his mind, he probably isn't think long-term.

 

Nothing unseemly or wrong about it (outside the "old eggs" comment), just the facts about being over 40 and dating a younger man who wants children.

[deathandtaxes]

Another talk while semi-drunk? How many of these talks happen?

 

 

You say you're not official, but actions speak louder than any proclamations do. You go out all the time, see each others friends. That sounds like a bf/gf relationship to me.

[FitChick]

But I do want a baby. One would be enough for me at this point, but it is not enough for him. He said he can't imagine a baby not having any sibling.

How much time do either of you spend around kids? Do you baby sit for friends? You are both in fantasy land. Spend time with kids and find out what it's really like to take care of them. Most people stop after one kid when they realize how expensive and time consuming they are. Not worth the price of the ego trip.

 

I think he uses kids as an excuse for not getting involved with someone, "She wouldn't be a good mother."

[xxoo]

Should I wait 1-2 more months (until we will be together for 5 months) and see if we both fall in love and things can be discussed again?

 

I don't see any harm in waiting a couple more months to see if anything changes. You can always break it off in 8 weeks if he doesn't take a bold step toward wanting a family with you.

 

But if he doesn't want a family with you, listen to him. You can't change his mind with persuasion. He either wants it or he doesn't. If he doesn't, you really don't want to pursue this.

[StanMusial]

How much time do either of you spend around kids? Do you baby sit for friends? You are both in fantasy land. Spend time with kids and find out what it's really like to take care of them. Most people stop after one kid when they realize how expensive and time consuming they are. Not worth the price of the ego trip.

 

I think he uses kids as an excuse for not getting involved with someone, "She wouldn't be a good mother."

 

Better excuse than most.

[travelbug1996]

Three months together? Really? You're still in the honeymoon phase aka "lala land".

if he's not the one showing an interest in you mothering his children, its not something he wants with YOU.

 

Move on from this one. It has to be his idea. You're pushing your agenda and for us women, that never works.

[edgygirl]

I knew people would get hung up on the few weird words he said mainly while we were drunk but I didn't want to talk about the wonderful things he did and does for me constantly.

 

So thank you xxoo for, as always, not focusing on the wrong things and having the clarity to understand where my post is coming from.

 

I focused on a few weird things I read between the lines and not so between the lines (as I said in my post). These things were like 0.1% of the relationship but obviously caught my attention and have bothered me since last weekend despite all the wonderful things he's done so far... that I did not point out.

 

Yes the "old eggs" were the most hurtful thing he has ever said, but he also keeps saying I'm the first person he meets he can discuss things openly with, so why not express his real feelings even though it's on the hurtful side? Aren't we supposed to share even the horrible things we feel and fears we have with someone we care about?

 

Besides, I know not many people believe in personality types, but he's an INTJ and they're not known for being specially diplomatic or to understand when they say things that are hurtful to other people. Besides, he was drunk.

 

He's brilliant in his rational side but I can tell that when it comes to deep feelings, evolution feeling-wise is not his forte, it's so disparate it's shocking. Still, I like him.

 

I have NOT been a fool, whomever said it. The talk happened this weekend, and I obviously have to think about it a little further now, and have a talk when we're both sober and not exhausted. That's how dating works... You have to meet someone and see how things unfold.

 

I don't feel like pointing out all the things he's done for me. Yes someone said it feels like being bf and gf, and it does. He's **** scared of liking someone who is not what he had in mind. Being a rational, it makes sense he would not feel comfortable about it. Specially being super successful and having a salary that makes him part of the 1%, he's the kind of guy who could get any girl he wanted.

 

xxoo - I will be sure to listen to him. Thank you again.

 

He has said in the past around a month ago that he wouldn't be opposed to the idea o having a child with me if I got pregnant.

 

I don't see any harm in waiting a couple more months to see if anything changes. You can always break it off in 8 weeks if he doesn't take a bold step toward wanting a family with you.

 

But if he doesn't want a family with you, listen to him. You can't change his mind with persuasion. He either wants it or he doesn't. If he doesn't, you really don't want to pursue this.

[edgygirl]

Thanks to everyone who posted. It's good to hear what people think in general, even when I don't completely agree with it or think they didn't get the point.

[Emilia]

I knew people would get hung up on the few weird words he said mainly while we were drunk

Because that's when the truth really comes out. I pay a lot attention to someone when they are very drunk. They have far less control.

[edgygirl]

I knew someone would say that.

 

As I pointed out he said from our second date that he was worried about my capacity to have chidren. This was no news, no truth came out... I just thought that by now he would be more involved with me and therefore more relaxed about the idea of having to have the TWO children. Also it's obviously a hurtful choice of words.

 

Because that's when the truth really comes out. I pay a lot attention to someone when they are very drunk. They have far less control.

[Emilia]

I knew someone would say that.

 

As I pointed out he said from our second date that he was worried about my capacity to have chidren. This was no news, no truth came out... I just thought that by now he would be more involved with me and therefore more relaxed about the idea of having to have the TWO children. Also it's obviously a hurtful choice of words.

No. Only his true personality.

[Frogwife]

I knew someone would say that.

 

As I pointed out he said from our second date that he was worried about my capacity to have chidren. This was no news, no truth came out... I just thought that by now he would be more involved with me and therefore more relaxed about the idea of having to have the TWO children. Also it's obviously a hurtful choice of words.

 

I am not sure why his choice of words is so hurtful - we are talking about "old eggs". Whether we like it or not, he's right! (And I'm a 45-year-old woman with old eggs myself). It's not a judgement against you, it's just a fact of nature. It gets harder to conceive after 35 and after 40, our fertility takes a huge drop.

 

And I HIGHLY disagree with anecdotal stories that women at nearly 50 (!!) are showing up pregnant on some gyno's table every week. Even if we COULD get pregnant without major medical intervention at that age, do our kids really deserve someone on social security showing up to their high school graduation? (That goes for mothers AND fathers.)

 

It's good to know he "wouldn't be opposed to the idea of having a child with you if you got pregnant" (who says romance is dead?) but talking about freezing your embryos for some guy you've been dating a few months (and only seeing a few times a week) seems INSANE, to me, to say the least!