The system, PUA and others

[Maximus1108]

Ok guys and gals...you probably all know the PUA's forums.

What one forum has to say is always revolving round a woman's interest level. Same goes for PUA's. They're always about not contacting her and leave her wondering what's going on.

 

The bottom line for me is: there is SOME truth in these ideas. After all, you don't want to come off too needy. But on the other hand, I'm just not able to completely ignore a girl to raise her interest level. I mean, come on, if I'm not interesting or good looking or smart enough myself to keep her interest level high, then what is?

 

So, what do you all think about this?

Edited November 5, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed reference to other forums

[CarrieT]

I'm a woman that has had 300+ partners and I think it is a crock of sh*t.

 

I can see when a guy tries to use a "system" and it is nothing but laughable. I immediately avoid men who try to use it on me...

[verhrzn]

Any time a guy ignores me, I cease to be interested in him. If a guy takes more than a day or two to respond to me (text/call back), invites me places and then ignores me, etc. in the early stages of dating, I immediately move on.

 

I far prefer guys who have their own lives but give me attention whenever they are available. I can't fathom for the life of me why anyone would want something different.

[Sun Devil]

Everytime I show women interest, they lose any interest in me. You must be different than other women.

[dasein]

I think lots of PUA, and particularly Doc Love, is a great starting place for men who have problems approaching, attracting women and having relationships. If you read Doc Love's columns, and find the types of problems in relationships he describes, you could do a lot worse for yourself than spend the money on The System and learning its general principles.

 

As you start to get some success, it's time to gradually start discarding "one size fits all" techniques in favor of your own personal style. But getting to that point, training wheels can be very helpful. Most PUA is really just common sense that many men learn naturally. Those who didn't learn naturally can spend a bit of cash and speed up their catching up.

[verhrzn]

Everytime I show women interest, they lose any interest in me. You must be different than other women.

 

Or you are confusing "interest" with "neediness." Being clingy isn't attractive either.

[MrCastle]

I use it and it works. The woman has to already have interest in you at some level though. It's a good way to measure interest. If a girl doesn't reach out to you after a significant amount of time, it was never going to work out with her anyway and you saved yourself future problems.

[Sun Devil]

What I mean is that I will talk to a girl and try to get her to talk about herself. So far, I have gotten nothing from this

[verhrzn]

What I mean is that I will talk to a girl and try to get her to talk about herself. So far, I have gotten nothing from this

 

Except how do you "try' to get her to talk about herself? By asking her questions about her interests?

 

Also, the above advice wouldn't benefit you anyway, since it's not used for cold approaches. Ignoring a girl who you haven't even spoken to is not going to get her interested.

[MrCastle]

This is kind of off topic but at the same time, relates. You need to take anything people say on here regarding their own gender with a gain of salt.

 

Do you expect women to come in here and say "oh yeah I totally fall for the guys that ignore my texts out of nowhere". Of course not, they'll look silly and they have an image to protect.

 

But look at the threads where women can't let go despite the obvious signs a guy isn't truly into her. "So we had an awesome date. We hooked up and then I haven't heard from him since. Maybe he's busy? I know he has to work I understand that. Or is it possible he lost service? Should I call him? Should I wait outside his house?"

 

People (of both genders) want what they can't have, but neither side is going to come in and admit that.

 

Good luck getting girls to come in here and admit the system works. Of course they're all going to portray this image of the savvy, wise, dating know it all who can 1.) spot a game a mile away and/or 2.) drop the man the second she suspects game playing.

[verhrzn]

I use it and it works. The woman has to already have interest in you at some level though. It's a good way to measure interest. If a girl doesn't reach out to you after a significant amount of time, it was never going to work out with her anyway and you saved yourself future problems.

 

But how do you know she wouldn't have talked to you/liked you anyway without the games? Just because your games don't chase her away does not mean they "win" her for you.... Maybe she would have liked you even if you hadn't ignored her.

 

It should also be said that you seem to go for the super-hot, shallow type. This strategy MIGHT work for them because of their ego, but who would want to keep that up forever? Games don't seem to lead to a long-term, happy relationship.

[MrCastle]

But how do you know she wouldn't have talked to you/liked you anyway without the games? Just because your games don't chase her away does not mean they "win" her for you.... Maybe she would have liked you even if you hadn't ignored her.

 

It should also be said that you seem to go for the super-hot, shallow type. This strategy MIGHT work for them because of their ego, but who would want to keep that up forever? Games don't seem to lead to a long-term, happy relationship.

 

Oh no they definitely do not work long term. I agree.

 

Ideally, we want to find a mate that we can totally be ourselves with without fearing we're coming across as needy or insecure or vulnerable etc.

 

But I am in the business of maximizing my short term dating success. You can't play by your own rules as opposed to the dating rule norms and expect to maximize success. I do what's neccessary to land quality dates consistently. Within reason. I won't lie, cheat, or otherwise manipulate to get what I want.

 

Minor game playing though, is up for grabs. Dating/seduction is very much a game. You can choose to play by the rules and do what's been proven to work, or you can have an idealistic mindset, do things your way and hope for the best.

 

I'd love to just come out and tell a girl "look I really like you. I think you're a perfect 10 physically and your personality is awesome and I hope to continue dating you", but that formula doesn't work. She'd have all the power at that point and I'd have no hope in getting equal leverage. The person with the least amount of emotional investment wins.

[Maximus1108]

I like the advice above (verhrzn). You shouldn't play games just for the sake of it. But then again, you can't be too needy or too clingy. So sometimes, you have to back off (not replying instantly, not texting all the time, not calling her all the time,...). This is not playing games, this is called common sense. But some people take it too far and then it's a game.

[verhrzn]

Oh no they definitely do not work long term. I agree.

 

Ideally, we want to find a mate that we can totally be ourselves with without fearing we're coming across as needy or insecure or vulnerable etc.

 

But I am in the business of maximizing my short term dating success. You can't play by your own rules as opposed to the dating rule norms and expect to maximize success. I do what's neccessary to land quality dates consistently. Within reason. I won't lie, cheat, or otherwise manipulate to get what I want.

 

Minor game playing though, is up for grabs. Dating/seduction is very much a game. You can choose to play by the rules and do what's been proven to work, or you can have an idealistic mindset, do things your way and hope for the best.

 

I'd love to just come out and tell a girl "look I really like you. I think you're a perfect 10 physically and your personality is awesome and I hope to continue dating you", but that formula doesn't work. She'd have all the power at that point and I'd have no hope in getting equal leverage. The person with the least amount of emotional investment wins.

 

And thus why I consider dating disgusting. People just manipulating each other to gain the upper hand.

 

But I guess if all that matters is sex and "quality dates".... which is overwhelmingly what seems to matter to men.... there's nothing I can do.

 

All I can say is such tactics are disgusting to me. I may continue casually dating the guy when he pulls this behavior, but he won't be getting sex, and he won't be getting a relationship. But I'm an ugly fat girl, so who cares about my opinion anyway?

[sweetkiwi]

they don't call it having game for no reason. But i know the game too. And its sad but it works. I don't do this to men i actually like, simply because i want to but the crap. But i've taught my girlfriends some things and its worked. Every time. These are for hookups and ons. Not genuine relationships.

 

And yeah. Its worked on me to a degree. But if a guy can keep me wondering what he's up to while still not leaving me hanging, thats making me think about him.

 

Its a delicate little dance.

[CarrieT]

Everytime I show women interest, they lose any interest in me. You must be different than other women.

 

So I've been told!

[Sun Devil]

I have ot met anyone who has disproven pua. I am at the point where I have nothing to lose by trying it out. If that fails, then the only option I have is to be an abusive jerk to women, those people never stay single for long.

[verhrzn]

I have ot met anyone who has disproven pua. I am at the point where I have nothing to lose by trying it out. If that fails, then the only option I have is to be an abusive jerk to women, those people never stay single for long.

 

I suppose it depends on your definition of "meet," but you've met me, and I have thoroughly disprove PUA.

 

But I suspect you're really just hunting for a reason to take out your bitterness on the women around you. And hey, if it helps you score, two birds with one stone.

[TheBigQuestion]

This is kind of off topic but at the same time, relates. You need to take anything people say on here regarding their own gender with a gain of salt.

 

Do you expect women to come in here and say "oh yeah I totally fall for the guys that ignore my texts out of nowhere". Of course not, they'll look silly and they have an image to protect.

 

But look at the threads where women can't let go despite the obvious signs a guy isn't truly into her. "So we had an awesome date. We hooked up and then I haven't heard from him since. Maybe he's busy? I know he has to work I understand that. Or is it possible he lost service? Should I call him? Should I wait outside his house?"

 

People (of both genders) want what they can't have, but neither side is going to come in and admit that.

 

Good luck getting girls to come in here and admit the system works. Of course they're all going to portray this image of the savvy, wise, dating know it all who can 1.) spot a game a mile away and/or 2.) drop the man the second she suspects game playing.

 

I agree. Good game can't really be "spotted." After a while, it becomes one's natural way of being.

[TheBigQuestion]

And thus why I consider dating disgusting. People just manipulating each other to gain the upper hand.

 

But I guess if all that matters is sex and "quality dates".... which is overwhelmingly what seems to matter to men.... there's nothing I can do.

 

All I can say is such tactics are disgusting to me. I may continue casually dating the guy when he pulls this behavior, but he won't be getting sex, and he won't be getting a relationship. But I'm an ugly fat girl, so who cares about my opinion anyway?

 

It isn't about getting the upper hand as much as it is about leveling the playing field.

[verhrzn]

It isn't about getting the upper hand as much as it is about leveling the playing field.

 

"Leveling the playing field" is assuming that women somehow have the upper hand, and need to brought down a peg, which has been discounted over and over. Women are just people.... they no more have an advantage than some guys do. Some women have an advantage in dating, just like some men have an advantage in dating. Approaching women like we're a monolithic pack with all the same characteristics, desires, and behaviors is ludicrous.

[TheBigQuestion]

"Leveling the playing field" is assuming that women somehow have the upper hand, and need to brought down a peg, which has been discounted over and over. Women are just people.... they no more have an advantage than some guys do. Some women have an advantage in dating, just like some men have an advantage in dating. Approaching women like we're a monolithic pack with all the same characteristics, desires, and behaviors is ludicrous.

 

Who is bringing gender into the conversation now?

 

Any class of dating advice regardless of which gender it is directed to is intended to disabuse people of behaviors that hold them back and instruct them on new ones to better achieve whatever it is they desire out of dating.

[ThaWholigan]

But how do you know she wouldn't have talked to you/liked you anyway without the games? Just because your games don't chase her away does not mean they "win" her for you.... Maybe she would have liked you even if you hadn't ignored her.

 

It should also be said that you seem to go for the super-hot, shallow type. This strategy MIGHT work for them because of their ego, but who would want to keep that up forever? Games don't seem to lead to a long-term, happy relationship.

Not all of it is games you know

[TheBigQuestion]

To all you self-proclaimed players, what exactly is you are trying to accomplish? Why would you want this to be your "natural way of being?" Do you not see how pathetic it is? Seriously.

 

One day you will be 40 or 50 or 60. Do you really think your natural way of being will count for much when all of your peers are off in normal relationships with wives and girlfriends who know and love them? Sure, you'll have lots of notches on your bed post, but when you're sick, or tired, or injured, you'll be the one whose texts are getting ignored. No one will ever take you seriously or care about you. Right now, you're all about testosterone and bluster, impressing imaginary audiences, but someday the game will be over and you guys are the ones who will be left either on the sidelines or picking up someone else's sloppy seconds.

 

I don't say these things because I'm a savvy dater (though I probably have A LOT more experience than 90% of you) but as the mother to three sons and grandmother to two grandsons. I've watched so many boys and men grow up over the years. The ones that don't (grow up) and put this bulls*** behind them end up becoming bitter, over-aged emotional retards who spend their days complaining that there are no good women to be had. You reap what you sow.

 

I'm not a player by any means, but what exactly is it about voluntary, perpetual male singlehood that irks you to the point that you essentially have to shame men who choose such a lifestyle? Especially when you consider that most "players" do settle down at some point anyway, unless they are particularly wealthy and famous?

 

How does the fact that a few men are perfectly content with short-term relationships for a substantial portion of their lives negatively affect you at all? If I don't want to live up to society's expectation of having a wife, dog, a few kids and a house in the 'burbs with a white picket fence, what skin is it off your nose?

[verhrzn]

I'm not a player by any means, but what exactly is it about voluntary, perpetual male singlehood that irks you to the point that you essentially have to shame men who choose such a lifestyle? Especially when you consider that most "players" do settle down at some point anyway, unless they are particularly wealthy and famous?

 

How does the fact that a few men are perfectly content with short-term relationships for a substantial portion of their lives negatively affect you at all? If I don't want to live up to society's expectation of having a wife, dog, a few kids and a house in the 'burbs with a white picket fence, what skin is it off your nose?

 

I don't think she's shaming men who stay single and choose a lifestyle of sex. I think she's shaming men who manipulate women to get it.

 

It's one thing if a man is upfront and honest about having no interest in the girl but just wanting to screw her. But doing the whole push/pull, text-her-ignore-her, insult-her, penetrate-the-Bitch-Shield thing is slimy and manipulative.

 

I'd happily make prostitution legal (and less health-risky) if it meant guys would no longer try to trick girls into short-term sex exchanges.