First Heartbreak Scars Men for Life?

[paddington bear]

This is a theory more than anything. I've noticed, well, if not a trend, but a couple of female friends and acquaintances ending up with much younger guys - the girls being in their 30's and guys in their 20's - average 7 to 10 year age gap.

 

What I've noticed is that these guys in their 20's (contrary to what I would have thought) are more than willing, and delighted to settle down, get married, have kids - all the things that as you get older you complain about men not wanting to do, not wanting commitment, not wanting marriage or kids, being scared of relationships.

 

And it's reminded me of my theory, that despite evidence to the contrary, that guys I think are actually more emotional and full-on than women when they fall in love. They are willing to commit and do all those things that many of us women want them to do, but...only when the guys are much younger and have not yet had their hearts broken.

 

Men who have not yet had their heart broken are willing to jump right into the scenario of being in love, of committing to the girl they've fallen for, but...once they've had their heart shattered, it seems like it breaks something inside of them and that emotional scar makes them mistrustful of women for a long time to come and this leads to commitment-phobia, mistrust of women, cynicism and so on and a much harder time trusting and therefore forming relationships.

 

I know some will say that yes women get damaged and mistrustful too - and I agree, it just seems that despite that, women seem more to pick themselves up and blindly hope that the next one will be the right one, that love is possible and desirable, whereas men's early romantic emotional scars prevent them from having so much faith in things working out and are thus wary of ever allowing themselves to fall so deeply again.

 

Is this a stupid theory of mine, or is there some truth to it?

[Awesome Username]

There is absolutely truth to it. Men's emotions run DEEP. I've known certain men who will wait around for a girl for a lifetime; I can't really say the same about women.

[neowulf]

As someone who's had his heart completely shattered and is in his 30's.. I feel some what qualified to comment on this theory

 

It's been about 2 and a half, going on 3 years since my 6 year relationship fell apart and I can relate to just about everything you've said.

 

I feel, for lack of a better term "Gun Shy". I think on some kind of instinctual level, that kind of pain marks a person. I know in my head it's irrational, yet part of me seems completely reluctant to become involved again.

 

It's common for people to develop phobias as a result of exposure to extreme stress. i.e. The person who almost drowns becomes phobic of swimming pools.

 

I think it stands to reason that when an emotional pain reaches the point where you'd consider offing yourself rather than going on... you've reached that level of "extreme stress".

 

What's the solution for this? Honestly, I don't really know. Time? Things appear to *slowly* be getting better, but then again I don't think I'll ever be as open or love as deeply as I did before. I just feel like that part of me "died" when my relationship did.

 

I don't think it renders me unable to have a meaningful relationship (fingers crossed...), but I do recognise it won't be the "head over heels, I'd do anything for you" kind of love it was in the past.

 

I don't fancy ever being that vunerable to another person again.

 

Nice observation though. Guess I'll become a monk

[Awesome Username]

As someone who's had his heart completely shattered and is in his 30's.. I feel some what qualified to comment on this theory

 

It's been about 2 and a half, going on 3 years since my 6 year relationship fell apart and I can relate to just about everything you've said.

 

I feel, for lack of a better term "Gun Shy". I think on some kind of instinctual level, that kind of pain marks a person. I know in my head it's irrational, yet part of me seems completely reluctant to become involved again.

 

It's common for people to develop phobias as a result of exposure to extreme stress. i.e. The person who almost drowns becomes phobic of swimming pools.

 

I think it stands to reason that when an emotional pain reaches the point where you'd consider offing yourself rather than going on... you've reached that level of "extreme stress".

 

What's the solution for this? Honestly, I don't really know. Time? Things appear to *slowly* be getting better, but then again I don't think I'll ever be as open or love as deeply as I did before. I just feel like that part of me "died" when my relationship did.

 

I don't think it renders me unable to have a meaningful relationship (fingers crossed...), but I do recognise it won't be the "head over heels, I'd do anything for you" kind of love it was in the past.

 

I don't fancy ever being that vunerable to another person again.

 

Nice observation though. Guess I'll become a monk

 

I've dated someone in your predicament and it was impossible for me to not be insecure about whether or not he wanted his ex back over me if she would take him. I think that a lot of women mistake pain over past heartbreak as someone still pining over his ex - or are they mistaken? Would you be satisfied if you met another girl that you clicked with, or would it just be a mask for the ex?

[samspade]

I think women know how to manage their emotions better than men do. That's why men so often go off the emotional deep end after a heartbreak. A woman has already rationalized to herself why a breakup must occur, well before its execution. Women also operate, naturally, from an abundance mentality. They know they can get a man anytime they want. Too many men operate from a scarcity mentality ("she was the only one for me"). When a man changes his outlook and behaves as someone who knows he has options, he too can keep those emotions in check.

 

It certainly ties in with age and experience, although there are some men who are naturals at handling women. Usually it's because they had early success and stuck with what worked.

 

The important thing for a man is to bear in mind that while women say they want you to "open up," the ugly truth is that over-emoting men are repulsive to women. Look around the breakup threads and you'll see plenty of instances of dumped men trying to "win back" their exes, through such ill-advised means as writing long letters, crying, begging, vowing to change, etc., etc. 99% of these cases end with the female resenting the male for his wussified behavior; it affirms the woman's decision to leave him in the first place. The guys will wonder aloud, "How could she be so cold?" because the more emotional he gets, the less outwardly emotional she will be. At some point, the man will either learn or repeat the process with a new woman.

 

The overeager willingness to fall in love, settle down, etc. that you describe is, in my opinion, a byproduct of the feminization of American men and a lot of pop culture brainwashing. We are raising generations of males who think they should go straight from mother to wife without living any life in between. A woman should only be a part of a man's life, not the main focus. Women want a man who has goals and pursuits and ambition.

[neowulf]

I've dated someone in your predicament and it was impossible for me to not be insecure about whether or not he wanted his ex back over me if she would take him. I think that a lot of women mistake pain over past heartbreak as someone still pining over his ex - or are they mistaken? Would you be satisfied if you met another girl that you clicked with, or would it just be a mask for the ex?

 

That's an interesting question.

 

I never really "pined" for my ex as such.

 

I did a lot of reflection and understood why things failed. I took my share of responsiblity for that, so I understood that as much as I loved her, we just weren't going to work out.

 

That said, I've had someone almost make the comment "I don't think you've been in a relationship since your ex", commenting on the fact that I hadn't really been emotionally involved with any of the girls I'd dated since.

 

I guess the problem I have is one of expectation. When you experience a love like the one I felt.. it kind of messes up your expectations of what you should feel for it to be "real" enough.

 

When I first kissed my ex, it felt like fireworks. I was basically punch drunk for a few seconds afterwards. That's the kind of effect she had on me. The way we connected was unlike anyone I've ever met before or since.

 

I don't pine for her... but I do pine for "that" kind of connection again. Anything less than it feels.. hollow. I don't really understand how I can go back to "Oh, I like her well enough" after feeling that way about someone.

 

There's also the issue of faith. When you find something like that with someone, only to watch it fail... well, it makes you doubt love itself. If something that strong can fail, then what's the use of it all.

 

Sorry, I appear to have become side tracked To answer your orignal question, if I found someon who I could feel a real connection with, then yes, I'd like to think I could just leave the past behind.

 

But sadly, for that to happen I'd have to stop comparing my new relationship to what I felt with my ex.

[paddington bear]

AwesomeUsername, I too have seen guys pining over ex's for years and years later and well, actually apart from my own mother, I don't know any women who is still hooked like that. And good question as to whether it is pining over an ex, or just pain over old heartbreak, curious to see the answers.

 

I read a theory somewhere...maybe even on LS, about how women are designed to recover quicker from the death of a spouse than a man, due again to evolution, men going to war against the local tribe, or getting killed by a saber toothed tiger, or even just killed by disease - again, the theory goes that to keep it together and keep any children cared for that women are designed to get over it at a faster pace than men (this might be a load of nonsense of course, can't remember where I read it).

 

If there's some truth in it though, perhaps that bears some relation on this too, that death of a person and death of a relationship trigger some kind of mourn, anger, acceptance, move on reaction in a woman, which is not triggered in a man. Just speculating.

 

Neuwolf - yes, I mean it's the same thing. That first soul-crushing heartbreak, whenever it is, seems to have a long-term bad effect on men. I'm wondering if it is that men are actually more sensitive than we are led to believe, or if both sexes are of an equal sensitivity, but that women have more of an emotional support structure that we turn to when heartbroken, than men which helps us work through it. dunno.

 

Do you think a woman can love you fully, if you will always hold a part of yourself back? Or has your heartbreak transformed you so much that this is this the real you now (someone who won't let themselves be that vulnerable again)?

 

I mean, I got my heart totally clawed out last year to the point where the pain literally felt physical and it has taken months to feel more on an even keel, but I think in the future I'd open up that heart of mine fully to someone else - there is a bit of the banging one's head against a brick wall mentality there though 'this one will be different and I won't get hurt this time'.

[neowulf]

The overeager willingness to fall in love, settle down, etc. that you describe is, in my opinion, a byproduct of the feminization of American men and a lot of pop culture brainwashing. We are raising generations of males who think they should go straight from mother to wife without living any life in between. A woman should only be a part of a man's life, not the main focus. Women want a man who has goals and pursuits and ambition.

 

+1

 

Have to agree with just about all your points Sam. I don't think it's limited to American men either.

 

I fully support the idea that men should be sent out into the world on their on for a number of years. It's the *only* point where they can really learn to rely on themselves.

 

I think that self-sufficient men are what women are really after. One's that don't "require" them to get by in life.

[Woggle]

Once a man is betrayed by a woman he is almost never the same. He will never be that wide eyed man ready to give his full love to a woman again. Not only does the heartbreak hurt but he starts noticing things about women that he never saw before and it is an eye opener. Men as they hit their 30s are so afraid of commitment because they have already been burned a few times plus many have seen a friend or two go through a nasty divorce. When a man's blinders are taken of and he sees what women are really like it is very disheartening. These younger men your friends are dating will learn soon enough when they get their hearts crushed.

[neowulf]

Do you think a woman can love you fully, if you will always hold a part of yourself back? Or has your heartbreak transformed you so much that this is this the real you now (someone who won't let themselves be that vulnerable again)?

 

Some women appear ok with that (men holding back parts of themselves). I've a couple of women fall pretty hard for me since.. though it's ended badly.

 

I don't know if my heartbreak has changed me for ever. In the beginning, when I was still grieving badly.. I tortured myself a lot over it. I was aware of the change in me. Of the detachment. The inability to feel anything. I'm a passionate guy by nature.. so it was pretty off putting to suddenly be unable to feel.

 

Now days, I've become more accepting of my new position. Freaking myself out saying "Oh God.. is this me now? Alone for the rest of my life because I can't feel?" wasn't working for me

 

I've removed myself from the dating pool for the time being and decided to just get on with my life. If another relationship happens it happens. I've let go of the illussion that I can control these things.

 

I don't believe I'll ever be the person I was before. I've just come to accept that and move on as best I can.

[paddington bear]

I think women know how to manage their emotions better than men do. That's why men so often go off the emotional deep end after a heartbreak. A woman has already rationalized to herself why a breakup must occur, well before its execution. Women also operate, naturally, from an abundance mentality. They know they can get a man anytime they want. Too many men operate from a scarcity mentality ("she was the only one for me"). When a man changes his outlook and behaves as someone who knows he has options, he too can keep those emotions in check.

 

It certainly ties in with age and experience, although there are some men who are naturals at handling women. Usually it's because they had early success and stuck with what worked.

 

The important thing for a man is to bear in mind that while women say they want you to "open up," the ugly truth is that over-emoting men are repulsive to women. Look around the breakup threads and you'll see plenty of instances of dumped men trying to "win back" their exes, through such ill-advised means as writing long letters, crying, begging, vowing to change, etc., etc. 99% of these cases end with the female resenting the male for his wussified behavior; it affirms the woman's decision to leave him in the first place. The guys will wonder aloud, "How could she be so cold?" because the more emotional he gets, the less outwardly emotional she will be. At some point, the man will either learn or repeat the process with a new woman.

 

The overeager willingness to fall in love, settle down, etc. that you describe is, in my opinion, a byproduct of the feminization of American men and a lot of pop culture brainwashing. We are raising generations of males who think they should go straight from mother to wife without living any life in between. A woman should only be a part of a man's life, not the main focus. Women want a man who has goals and pursuits and ambition.

 

I think the problem there is that many men don't open up while they are within the relationship, but when that relationship falls apart all their emotional defences crumble and it all comes flooding out - too much, too late.

 

I've been on the women side of this equation, and it's not that I have thought 'wuss', but more that the relationship was over and whereas that kind of emotion would have moved me before the breakup, it didn't afterwards to the same degree, because the relationship was over (depending of course on who split up with whom, the reasons for the split and so on). Also, I wish as a woman I could just go out and get another man like that, I assumed that would be the case after my last LTR fell apart, that I would meet someone else who'd actually want to be my boyfrend...and it just didn't happen for me, so I know for sure, that it's not always that easy...again maybe in the States it is, because guys there actually ask women out...

 

I live in Europe so the examples mentioned were not American - but perhaps you would consider European men more feminised in the first place which would be the same diff. I have to say I would not, nor would any of my female friends expect some young guy to go straight from mom to wife, I guess that's what's so surprising when I've seen that happen. It's the exact opposite of what we are led to believe about men, and the only theory I had for it, was that at that age they were 'innocent' and willing to go all the way emotionally because they had never had the horrific experience of having all that love tossed back in their face.

[EricaH329]

I think women know how to manage their emotions better than men do.

 

This was the point that I was going to make.

 

Most females, their whole lives, are emotionally open. With friendships, romantic interests, and family. We have opened ourselves to hurt and pain. So when the time comes that we are hurt, we know how to deal with it a little bit better than males, who were taught to be emotionally closed off.

 

That said, when a man gives his heart to a woman, it is extremely precious. They are less likely to do that than woman are.

 

So yes, I do believe that your theory is correct.

[Thebob]

This is so true, it's hard for guys to get in to a relationship in the first place, then once they get in to there first serious one and they feel like nothing could be better then something bad happens and the relationship ends then they are heartbroken. Women can be done with a relationship and be back in the game 2 weeks later having all sorts of guys hitting on them. Girls can form bonds way faster than guys cause guys have to do the initiating and have to put on a good show for the girl in order for her to like him. Then the guy cant look to needy to the girl so the girl doesn't get turned off by him. It's a huge game and it frustrates us guys in my opinion. Last year I had my first serious thing and it ended badly and now I'm tryin to find another girl but girls feel like I am a player and very confident but once I tell them the truth it seems like they dont like it anymore.... It's a sick game and it's tiring.

 

Thebob

[squeaky]

I think this is true to an extent.

 

My ex-boyfriend was in a relationship for 5 years and he was dumped suddenly. He had intended to marry the girl. That was 2 years ago. He and I met 8 months ago, and even though we get along very well, I know that the reason why things didn't work between us at the time was that he was still so scared and heartbroken over what had happened with his ex. I'm still very close to him, and he seems to be getting better, but I know that pain will always be a part of him.

 

I do think it also depends on the person and the nature of the breakup. I'm a woman, and my first breakup was devastating. It occurred 8 years ago, but I still carry baggage and pain because of it. I've really learned a lot about myself and others since then, and I would never want to go back to that relationship, but it really has affected the rest of my life. It took me a very long time to be able to trust people or allow myself to have strong feelings for someone else again.

[Crazy Magnet]

The overeager willingness to fall in love, settle down, etc. that you describe is, in my opinion, a byproduct of the feminization of American men and a lot of pop culture brainwashing. We are raising generations of males who think they should go straight from mother to wife without living any life in between. A woman should only be a part of a man's life, not the main focus. Women want a man who has goals and pursuits and ambition.

 

 

I think this goes both ways though. How many generations of women have we raised to go straight from home to husband, without any in between? I know this is more prevalent in the South, where I was born and raised. Still though, probably 70=80% of my high school and college friends were married within a month of college graduation. Those who were not, were quickly engaged and married soon after.

 

I really spanned the age gap when I was dating around, and the guys I went out with who were 22 were just as likely to want to settle down and get married as the guys who were 35+. I saw no difference really.

[shadowplay]

As someone who's had his heart completely shattered and is in his 30's.. I feel some what qualified to comment on this theory

 

It's been about 2 and a half, going on 3 years since my 6 year relationship fell apart and I can relate to just about everything you've said.

 

I feel, for lack of a better term "Gun Shy". I think on some kind of instinctual level, that kind of pain marks a person. I know in my head it's irrational, yet part of me seems completely reluctant to become involved again.

 

It's common for people to develop phobias as a result of exposure to extreme stress. i.e. The person who almost drowns becomes phobic of swimming pools.

 

I think it stands to reason that when an emotional pain reaches the point where you'd consider offing yourself rather than going on... you've reached that level of "extreme stress".

 

What's the solution for this? Honestly, I don't really know. Time? Things appear to *slowly* be getting better, but then again I don't think I'll ever be as open or love as deeply as I did before. I just feel like that part of me "died" when my relationship did.

 

I don't think it renders me unable to have a meaningful relationship (fingers crossed...), but I do recognise it won't be the "head over heels, I'd do anything for you" kind of love it was in the past.

 

I don't fancy ever being that vunerable to another person again.

 

Nice observation though. Guess I'll become a monk

 

Out of curiosity I looked at your past threads, and they left me a bit confused in light of what you've written here. As far as I can discern, she didn't end the relationship, you did, as you were unable to make a long term commitment to her.

 

If you feel she wasn't the one for you, then why would losing her be so gut-wrenching? Real heart break comes from loving somebody who doesn't love you in return or stops loving you.

 

Something doesn't add up.

 

EDIT: I just read that you cheated on her as well.

 

I find it distasteful that you would talk about having your heart broken when you brought this all on yourself. Are you just being melodramatic, or what?

Edited January 25, 2010 by shadowplay

[threebyfate]

paddington, I'm going to have to disagree. From years of reading thread after thread, it's more a non-gender related issue. There appear to be two types of people who have difficulty recovering from break up, years afterwards:

1. Low self-esteem individuals who internalize the break up and self-flagellate their self-esteem to even lower depths.
   
2. Individuals with massive egos who can't believe their exes would leave them.
   

[neowulf]

Out of curiosity I looked at your past threads, and they left me a bit confused in light of what you've written here. As far as I can discern, she didn't end the relationship, you did, as you were unable to make a long term commitment to her.

 

If you feel she wasn't the one for you, then why would losing her be so gut-wrenching? Real heart break comes from loving somebody who doesn't love you in return or stops loving you.

 

Something doesn't add up.

 

As with most things internet, there's always more to the story.

 

"We" ended the relationship in the end, although I initiated it.. she wasn't exactly "fighting" against it in the end. She was exhausted too. We both were.

 

I disagree with your comment about heart break. My heart break came from loving someone more than anyone else in my whole life.. yet not having that love be enough to make the relationship work.

 

In my heart, I didn't want to let her go, yet my head was telling me that something wasn't right. When I looked more deeply at the relationship I saw that it wasn't heathy or balanced for either of us. Our efforts to resolve things failed time and time again. We just weren't right for one another.

 

Leaving her was the *last* thing I really wanted to do.. but I don't think it was the wrong decision.

 

I know I made the right choice. But it was a choice that killed me to have to make.

[Woggle]

Another fact is that women love a man even more when he holds himself back. My wife damn near worships the ground I walk on when I am often very distant with her while it was the complete opposite in my first marriage. When a woman has a man's heart all she does is crush it so why should give our hearts to you? Give me one good reason to fully open up.

[neowulf]

EDIT: I just read that you cheated on her as well.

 

I find it distasteful that you would talk about having your heart broken when you brought this all on yourself. Are you just being melodramatic, or what?

 

Thank you for bringing that up Shadowplay. Far be it that I should ever be allowed to forget one of the most shameful mistakes I've ever made in my life.

 

If you've read my threads, you'd also probably have heard about the endless guilt and self-loathing that came with it. Of course I deserved all that. People aren't entitled to make mistakes in their lives. Forgiveness is only for "good" people after all.

 

As for my pain, no offense but you have no idea about my life, my relationship or what went on. I haven't published all the details, nor to I intend too.

 

My pain is as real as the next persons and frankly *I* find it distasteful that you'd come in here and pass judgement on me.

 

I gave my ex 6 years of my life. I was decent, kind, giving and honest. I did all I could for her. I screwed up. I admitted that. I've taken responsiblity and frankly Im sick to death of the "hollier than thou" attitude some people appear to have.

 

Come back to me when you're life is perfect and you've never done anything you're ashamed of.

Edited January 25, 2010 by neowulf

[paddington bear]

paddington, I'm going to have to disagree. From years of reading thread after thread, it's more a non-gender related issue. There appear to be two types of people who have difficulty recovering from break up, years afterwards:

1. Low self-esteem individuals who internalize the break up and self-flagellate their self-esteem to even lower depths.
   
2. Individuals with massive egos who can't believe their exes would leave them.
   

 

lol well, actually I can't disagree with this either, it makes some sense. However, I think neuwolf put it succinctly when he said that he wasn't pining for his ex per se, but more for that depth of emotion and the fact that no one else matched up to that or would.

[paddington bear]

Another fact is that women love a man even more when he holds himself back. My wife damn near worships the ground I walk on when I am often very distant with her while it was the complete opposite in my first marriage. When a woman has a man's heart all she does is crush it so why should give our hearts to you? Give me one good reason to fully open up.

 

Woggle I was actually going to say this. When Neowulf said that women had fallen hard for him even when he couldn't open up to them that this is like...ahm...trying to think of a metaphor...it's like catnip to a cat (?)

 

:The mystery man, why can I not get close to him? he is like a box within another box and I (the extra special woman out of all women) will be the only one he reveals his true inner self and thus prove to myself that I above all other women am different to his other girlfriends, his facade cracked with me because I'm special (it's an ego thing).

 

Problem with that is, I've been down that route and I'm not allowing myself to fall for the emotionally damaged type again because I've found if his heart is not for unlocking, there's not a damn thing I can do about it and forcing some guy to feel emotions he does not feel or to open up when he doesn't want to is I'm sure is not only annoying, but also pointless and stupid. People open up, or let go only when they are ready to, not under pressure.

[threebyfate]

lol well, actually I can't disagree with this either, it makes some sense. However, I think neuwolf put it succinctly when he said that he wasn't pining for his ex per se, but more for that depth of emotion and the fact that no one else matched up to that or would.

Neuwolf reminds me of my ex-H. He didn't appreciate what he had until he lost it.

 

My ex-H falls somewhere between #1 and #2.

[neowulf]

Neuwolf reminds me of my ex-H. He didn't appreciate what he had until he lost it.

 

My ex-H falls somewhere between #1 and #2.

 

I can agree with that.

 

I didn't really appreciate how unique our bond was at the time. Neither did she.

 

"I" didn't lose the relationship on my own. "We" did.

[threebyfate]

I can agree with that.

 

I didn't really appreciate how unique our bond was at the time. Neither did she.

 

"I" didn't lose the relationship on my own. "We" did.

I don't know what your relationship was like, but my previous marriage was potentially different. The ex has clinically diagnosed Narcissistic Personality Disorder. He never felt he "had" me, in that he needed me to rely on him for something irreplacable, like financial income, etc., something that gave him leverage on me. But the sad reality was that I married him because I loved him and wanted to be with him. You cannot force someone to be secure in a relationship, albeit I tried to show him how much I loved him.

 

It's now been over three years since D-day, with almost three years of therapy, and he still can't find someone to have a deep connection with. Perhaps he never will, if he doesn't let go and move on, same as you. You will never move on unless you stop wasting time self-flagellating and give another person an open heart, taking time to get that deep connection. The connection doesn't magically appear.