supposed "nice guy" vs. "genuine guy"

[jmo28]

I read a lot in these forums about how nice guys are really just putting on an act to get the girl and that they are usually just stupid doormats who show their true colors eventually. People also sometimes mention the so called "geunine guy" who is what the girl is really looking for, the nice guy who still challeneges them, has confidence etc. And that the other guy never gets anywhere because women either see through him or feel he's weak.

 

I think I fall into the geunine guy camp in terms of my outlook on my life, yet i still often find myself dealing with the plight of the nice guy. I feel like part of that is because there are things i do that may be doormat-like but really are just part of who i am.

 

For instance, i always return phone calls as soon as possible. Its not insecurity, its just maturity and professionalism to me. Doesn't matter if its a girl i went out on a date with, a casual aquaintance, a good friend, or a client. Doesn't matter if the person takes forever to call me back..i just feel like being the better person and returing the call as soon as I can. Unfortunately i'm sure that comes across as desperation with women but the fact is its hard for me to break out of a pattern of being that way with everyone I encounter in my life.

 

I talk about myself in a self deprecating way....not because i'm insecure, but because i like to entertain and be funny because I feel better when I make people laugh...again doesn't matter if its a girl i'm dating or whoever. I don't take myself very seriously and i generally try to lighten the mood, even at work (i work in a highly professional corporate environment). Maybe that makes me seem weak because i don't talk tough/macho, but its who I am.

 

I do other "nice guy" things that i usually don't mention when i'm with someone (i let them discover for themselves), but since this is an anonymous blog, I volunteer weekly at a soup kitchen feeding homeless and playing the piano for them and volunteer work/hiking (ie trail maintenance). I don't do it to meet girls, i do it because i spend the rest of my professional life making rich people richer and want to help other people.

 

My point is, that I am who I am, and even though I keep hearing from guys I know that sleep around a lot that i need to be more of an *******, I just can't pull it off. Its not a doormat thing, its just my personality generally....and i get no where with women.

 

Does anyone have any thoughts for someone that is not a fake nice guy who is using it to get in a girl's pants and is also pretty happy with his life and his activities, but yet still find's his "niceness" gets him in a rut with women....

[I Luv the Chariot OH]

It's not your "niceness" that is your problem with women. It's something else. Of course, I have no idea what this is, since you've zeroed in on all your strong points and left out your flaws.

[Darkzen]

It comes down to three factors my friend. #1, women want mystery/fantasy it's embedded into them at a young age... "Nice guys" are generally predictable and either type of man brings fantasy to the table. #2, the age of the women is a fairly telling factor... younger girls still want to have fun, do exciting things and/or be selfish (i.e. do what makes them happy at the time). "Nice guys" are generally boring because being caring means they want to over-analyze things instead of just acting on impulse. #3, looks are very very very important in most cases. You can be the best man on the planet, but until you're attractive enough to a girl... you won't get the opportunity. It's not even raw beauty that I'm referring to either, it's how you take care of yourself. This gives the woman an indication of how you'll probably treat them.

 

There are exceptions to every rule, but generally speaking, the "nice guy" has his work cut out for him. Not because there's anything wrong with being a "nice guy", but because women have the power and try to milk it for all it's worth. I've seen it first hand and have had many girls as friends. The "nice guy" will always be around, why not takes some risks on a more attractive, more mysterious and more exciting guy? That's how many of them looked at it.

 

I was a fat kid growing up and was loved as a friend, but no one ever looked at me as a potential BF. Then I go to the Army, trim out and get some muscles... wah lah, now all these girls that used to look at me as a friend are all trying to date me. I'm a reasonably handsome man, even when chubby... I've heard all type of opinions on my looks, ranging from gorgeous to above average. TBH, I'm a "nice guy" and it really wore me down getting all the attention that I did, I always felt bad rejecting girls that I wasn't interested in. Being attractive has it's downfalls, just as being unattractive does too.

[jmo28]

To respond to all of you:

1. Flaws: Sure, i've got em. Wouldn't be human if I didn't. I'm sure I come across as doormattish, when in reality thats just my personality. When I really like someone i'm sure i appear vulnerable and less confident. I think another problem is i'm in a big city where i don't have much of a social network other than thru activities i'm involved in and thru work (both of which i'm slowly building) and most of my friends outside the city are married or very close and give me the "i can' tbelieve you're single" rap. So, i'm sure the combination comes across as being a little too available.

 

2. Looks: Well, i've been told i'm very attractive, at least my face. I know i'm def too skinny, partly because i can't lift for a while because of a car accident when i was in a cab last year. I generally dress well, though thats becaues i've had help.

 

3. Nature of the women i've attracted: yeah i've thought about this. Many of them have online social networking site profiles and i recently looked up many of the girls i've gone on a first date with in the past year and a half and 99% of them are still single. I think many of them don't know what they want, are not as mature as they could be and also many seem more interested in where I work or how much money i make (I was shocked that some of them are teachers and yet still know a lot of the specifics about companies in my industry) than the things about me i'd rather they appreciate. Certainly, this isn't about trashing them, its about improving myself, but I'm sure i've attracted the wrong type for me.....

[LoveLace]

I know what you mean about the online dating...if I went on there today, I'd see several men that I might have had a date with and/or spoke to a couple times as long as 3-4 years ago. Once I caught on to this I thought...wait, the problem isn't me, it's them!

 

Just be confident and aware that you'd be a good catch for anyone and it will come to you eventually. Maybe you should do things that put you in a situation to meet women. Not soley for that reason..I just mean expand your interest in something, like start going to the bookstore and read about topics that interest you...your not necessarily seeking a girl out this way, but you never know if at least a date comes out of it. That's just an example...also if you normally turn down social invites to parties or gatherings, start accepting them instead. Start making friends with friends of friends. Have a "bowling night" and tell your friends to bring friends. Call up a buddy and grab a drink at a tavern you've never been in before. None of this might appeal to you specifically, but you get the drift...just enjoy life and keep in mind that in the end, you will come out happier than the "fake" guys because a woman will know your genuine and will have much appreciation for it.

 

It's true that "the best things come to those who wait"....because after 30 yrs. I've finally found a guy I've only dreamt about...he's a very genuine, nice guy like you, but he doesn't over-do it and he's cool and calm, but he can also be goofy and fun. I met him because I got invited to a winery trip..something I do rarely; and he fell into my lap out of nowhere. It'll happen for you, just be patient.

[nicki]

Are you mostly dating women you find online? Do you meet many in person?

 

How about asking out another volunteer at the soup kitchen, or at least someone who has some of the same interests and values that you do?

 

I seem to meet the absolute worst guys at the gym. Most of them seem shallow, or maybe it's the superficial bonding over the weight machines while they check out my ass, as well as all the other womens' asses they can see in the mirrors?

 

However, I meet the most amazing guys at the yoga studio. It seems like those guys are still attracted to looks, but also go deeper. It's important to share the same basic philosophy/outlook about life and what's important in connecting with people.

 

For instance, I couldn't care less what kind of car a man drives or how muscular he is. I care a lot more about the values and things you talked about. And a lot of women do.

 

Also, how are your social skills? Can you chat up a woman pretty well? Are you an approachable person?

[jmo28]

Thanks, yeah...I generally am able to chat it up with women in the right venues. Ie, i feel insecure in bars and clubs but usually on an activity i can do it. I am involved in a few activities...i'm in a group that goes on hikes (going on one tomorrow) and does other outdoorsy stuff and am in a leadership role there in addition to the volunteer work. I have gone out with one of the other volunteers a few times...I take the same attidue you do, that i'll meet the right kind of people in activities i enjoy...though out of the clear blue she seems to be blowing me off with no explanation.

 

When i first moved to this city, it was mostly online people, but i put a self-imposed exile from online sites this past spring after my last bad experience. However, many of those i've gone out with not from online sites, still have social networking (myspace, facebook etc) profiles so you can see that they're still single.

 

I should say while i can generally chat it up and am a good "first date" person, i'm generally bad at the back and forth after. Again, i think i appear too available. This is party because gf's i've had in the past just sort of happened so there was no formalized first date, second date, i call you on x day etc...i feel it shouldn't be that way anyway.

 

In the mean time, since the summer ended i'm not overly looking for people, just doing things I enjoy and figuring someone will pop up. I also decided my dates are just going to be fun activities i enjoy so even if it doesn't go well, at least i had fun.

[halfarock]

Also, how are your social skills? Can you chat up a woman pretty well? Are you an approachable person?

This is a pattern that I am starting to see. Guys will be complaining about women not liking nice guys but the problem isn’t that the guy is nice or not, it is his lacking of social skills.

 

I can be a good guy or bad boy depending on the girl, the situation, my mood for the day. It really doesn’t change who I am, it is just adapting to the situation. The stuff of relationships is in the interactions. A guy can go on and on about all his attributes, good job, works out, charity work, or whatever, but without the social skills to just walk up to a woman and talk, he is never going to get anywhere.

 

It all comes down to; do you interact well with women? If not then it is your social skills that need developing.

 

jmo28, in your posts you say that you’re a genuine guy, a nice guy who does volunteer work, clearly the message you want to convey is that you’re this nice guy that cares about others. If a woman is otherwise interested in you then these are good things, but if not then she is just going to go “so what?” The attitude you should have should be more of, “I’m going to go over there and interact with her in a way that will make her very happy that I went over there.” What nicer thing can you do for someone than to make them happy?