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"Forcibly" Silent for things that matter?


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Old 7th October 2013, 11:24 PM   #1
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"Forcibly" Silent for things that matter?

Hey, everybody. I'm frustrated because I find it extremely hard to talk about things that actually kind of matter. I was looking to see if anyone else feels this way. Sometimes I feel like maybe how the world works is that people don't really talk to each other about things that matter, and so I shouldn't be trying to go against that and try to talk to people about things that matter, but I hope that this is not the case.

(I and everyone I talk about in this post are 24 years old.)

I feel like so much of the time I am silent. I am kind of a class clown and loud and funny and making jokes all the time, but I also feel like I am silent, because I feel I cannot tell people I feel closest to what they mean to me (and I do tell them sometimes, like I'll tell them I miss them or I'm happy to see them, but it scares me when I do that and makes me feel vulnerable and afraid that they will like me less because it will creep them out to know that I value them and then they will want to not be around me anymore - I think I've felt this way for years and I think it probably doesn't make sense and does not reflect how reality typically works, people usually don't hate you because they know you value them).

Also, I am very skittish about telling people how I feel about them by using my body, too, giving a friend a hug or sitting next to a friend so that our arms are touching... I try to do it because that's what I want so much, simple physical human contact, but it also makes me nervous and scared. I've gone for probably over a decade with hardly any physical contact from other humans at all, and severely pulling myself away from it, and I've been trying to get over that because I feel so lonely with hardly ever touching anybody and I want it so much, but it is hard. And, to be clear, even though I'm trying to get over it, I am not overly or invasively touchy, at all. I fear I am sometimes, but it's because I've conditioned myself to fear that, and it's because my awareness about physical touch is magnified by like 1000 times compared to most people. Every small touch I get, just a pat on the back, a push on the knee, it's like I have a running catalogue of that in my head, for months back, it stands out to me so much. But I'm still very pulled back physically.


*****But another thing that makes me feel like I am silent, is that I cannot tell these people I am closest to how some of their actions affect me, and I cannot tell them WHY that is, and WHY it is has to do with my insecurities, things I am sensitive about. And I feel like it would be so much easier, if I could tell them these things, so they could better understand where I am coming from, and there would be less misunderstandings, more awareness, etc.*****

For instance, this guy ignored a message I wrote to him on Facebook, telling him that even though his friend who lives in the same house as me is gone for a week, he could still come over and hang out with me, and bring some of his friends if he wants. I wrote it the day the guy left, and he read it the next day. This guy I messaged comes over so often, as does another friend of the guy who lives in the same house as me, and I see them often and I always hang out with them - it feels like I am a part of the group. They like me. I've hardly been happier. They think I'm funny and cool, they enjoy talking to me, they touch me in small ways, a couple time's they've given me hugs for no reason, they flirt with me sometimes. I value them a lot and it feels like they like me also. But I also know that, when the guy who lives in my house moves out, they won't come around anymore, because I won't be a good enough reason. This bothers me a lot.

But anyway, so I directly asked the guy in the Facebook message "do you want to hang out?" and he ignored me, and I'm upset and I'm mad about it.

I'm upset for a few different reasons:
I did several things that scared me, in that message. I said I will miss him and the others in the group because they will be gone for a while. I showed and admitted that I valued him (which puts me in a vulnerable position)
when I said "Do you want to hang out?"
One big reason these things scare me is because it makes me feel like the other person will like me less for it and will leave me. And so, it is painful when I take the risk to do these things that make me scared, and then I am ignored. It makes me feel like I did something wrong, it makes me feel stupid, it makes me feel ashamed, it makes me feel disliked, it makes me feel worthless, it makes me feel scared that they won't want to be around me anymore and will go away from me and shun me.
Plus isn't it common courtesy to get back to someone when they ask you a direct question? Plus he isn't even working full time right now.
People would probably try to make up some excuse for him, like "he's busy," or "he forgot," but that is not true, the truth is that he doesn't value me enough to want to be around me when the guy I live with isn't here, and it makes him feel awkward that I asked him to hang out because he doesn't value me as much as I value him, and he doesn't want to deal with that awkwardness. I am not worth anything to him just as myself. When the guy I live with moves out, the guy I facebooked will leave also and never come back and never miss me (which is odd, because at the same time there's affection between he and I, between the members in my group and me).

But anyway, that's not the point. The point is that my feelings have been hurt and I want him to know it. (The guy was over the house tonight, because his friend is back, and I didn't say anything about the Facebook message and neither did he.) I can't change the fact that he doesn't value me, and he can't either, that's not his fault, but I want him, and other people I care about and am closest to, to know that I am scared, at least a little, every time I touch them, every time I indicate that they mean something to me, every time I ask them to spend time with me, or ask if I can spend time with them. Because I feel like, if they knew that, they would be aware of these things I am insecure about, and they would make an effort to not react in a way that would upset me. Like, they wouldn't ignore me about that stuff, and when I touch them they would be outwardly receptive and kind about it, or maybe they will even be the ones to initiate touch with me more often. And plus they'd be able to read me better, my motivations, feelings, etc. I feel like you shouldn't have to keep these things secret, from people. I feel like the larger parts of me takes for granted the notion that you just don't talk about anything like that. Anything sincere, that really hits at the heart of you, anything that actually has substance, anything that is more than bull ****ting about goofy things, anything that doesn't have laughter in it - that is off limits. And I hope that is not true. Because I want to believe that the world is not, by nature, a place where you have to be so silent. Where you have to silent some of the truest, deepest parts of you, from EVERYBODY. Where those things aren't allowed, or okay. Where you're fated to walk around with a huge tumor of all the things you'd like to say but believe you can't, shouldn't, stuck in your throat.
I want to be told that it's okay to not be silent. And that you're even supposed to not be silent. I mean that is what is necessary for relationships with people, I feel. I feel like you should be able to talk about these things, especially for those who are closer to you. It's not like I'm trying to be this way with complete strangers.

I don't know. And this is not an isolated thing, either, it is not just with these people I've talked about where I am silent, it is with EVERYBODY. And on the rare cases I DO become stupid enough to be open about things that are bothering me, like this, for example, to tell my mom about this issue, nobody gets that this is a big deal to me. They think it's like whatever. They think a lot of what I talk about is whatever. But this and other things I say when I'm stupid enough to be open, is a huge deal to me. I mean I cry over stuff like this, this particular situation. Then again, I also probably often present stuff as if it is not a big deal to me, even though it really is.

Anyway, does anybody else have experiences with this, with feeling so forcibly silent? Like you try to overcome it, but don't, or it's super hard? Or like you feel you're not even supposed to?
And do you think it is a reasonable thing to want and hope for, to be able to actually TALK to another person, like in a for real, meaningful way?

Please go easy.

Last edited by Yapa; 7th October 2013 at 11:30 PM..
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Old 8th October 2013, 3:50 AM   #2
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Quote:
And do you think it is a reasonable thing to want and hope for, to be able to actually TALK to another person, like in a for real, meaningful way?
Yes, that's reasonable. It's natural to want to connect with other human beings and feel wanted and valued and important. But you can't expect to get these things from casual friends or friends of friends. You get these things from close family members or close friends or romantic partners.

It's not really acceptable to share your innermost thoughts with someone you're not close with. That's just the way it is.

Quote:
Because I feel like, if they knew that, they would be aware of these things I am insecure about, and they would make an effort to not react in a way that would upset me. Like, they wouldn't ignore me about that stuff, and when I touch them they would be outwardly receptive and kind about it, or maybe they will even be the ones to initiate touch with me more often.
It seems like what you're saying here is that you want everyone else to change their behavior in order to make you feel more comfortable and to soothe your insecurities. That's unreasonable and it's not going to happen. You should be looking into how to better yourself socially, rather than trying to find someone to assign blame to. You adjust to society, not the other way around.
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Old 8th October 2013, 9:36 AM   #3
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I understand what you're saying.

I guess a problem is that I do feel close to them, which leads me to want to be open with them. I value them a lot and feel comfortable with them, and they like me. And when I'm with the guy I messaged and his friend I live with and another of their friends, I feel the sense of being at home and being where I belong and being exactly where I'm meant to be, which is a big deal. So I guess the problem is that that's not reciprocal, so it hurts when I feel close enough to them to want to be open with them, when I guess they don't feel that way about me. I'm around them all the time because they come over all the time. You don't think it would be okay and worth it and effective to be more open with them, since I have so much contact with them and they are going to affect me a lot more than if I only saw them a couple times in class or something? And if it's not okay to be more open with someone because we're not "close" enough, then wouldn't nobody ever become close with anybody else? Because you have to have that first step of being open and vulnerable before you could ever start to become close to another person, because being close doesn't just happen, somewhere you have to move from not being vulnerable to being sincere and open? I feel like there are points in a relationship where you are not close, but you feel comfortable with the person and like them and care about them, and so one day you decide to reveal something on a more personal level about yourself even though it feels scary because you've never done that before with that person and you're really not "close" to them yet because you haven't ever talked to them in that way before, but now you have, and now it opens the possibility for closeness. Is this not accurate?

And I also thought about how what I am doing might be asking them to change their behavior and that's not okay. But then I think about how if a person who had experiences with an eating disorder doesn't like you joking that she's fat or commenting on how much she's eating, which other people might just laugh at and not be bothered by, wouldn't you stop saying things like that to her because they know they bother her and she is insecure about that? Or, my mom is very sensitive about people indicating at all, even in playful and subtle ways, that she is not intelligent. Her mom used to call her an idiot a lot, so she is very sensitive to it, and because I know that, I am extra aware to make sure I don't say anything to her about that that maybe I could say to other people who do not have that insecurity. Or if there is a kid on a baseball team who is terrified to go up to bat and who feels awkward and afraid he's being judged out on the field, I feel like, if I was a member of the team, I would be more encouraging and subtly assuring to him when I see that he is starting to feel really bad and insecure. And I feel like I would be glad to know how much anxiety he has around playing baseball, so that I could look at some of his behaviors that I didn't understand and maybe thought were strange before, and now I can be like "Oh. I get it. Now that I understand you more, I am not going to misinterpret your actions, which makes me feel more comfortable because I now feel like I know how to navigate our relationship with you better because now we understand each other more."

These are real questions, I'm not trying to argue, I'm trying to understand.
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Old 8th October 2013, 7:02 PM   #4
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Yes, I've felt like that all my life, still do. It's a struggle. I don't know why it happens - whether it's one's nature or as a result of fear or abuse of some kind. I had some traumatic experiences in childhood which made me afraid of people. I don't think one ever gets over things like that properly.

Liking someone and wanting their attention does make one vulnerable. If they don't respond nicely to a request for their company, it is a blow. Why we take it so personally, I don't know. It is easy to feel dismissed when one is so sensitive. Maybe you are just very sensitive and can't be as thick-skinned as others. I can completely understand that.
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Old 10th October 2013, 3:41 PM   #5
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Hey Yapa. I just want to say that you are not alone. At some point in our lives we have all felt that we have been silent, and have not said things what we really meant to say to those who are important to us. I know it is important to you that they understand who you are, to say that they mean the world to you, and sometimes it can hurt us if they misunderstand. But you need to accept yourself before you can accept others and for them to really accept you, to face being hurt and take it in stride. Sometimes we remain silent because we have not fully grasped what it means to us. We feel afraid of what it would mean to the other person. But you have to respect the other enough to have to make their own decisions and to have their own conscience about these matters. Friendship and developing these connections take time to build. You simply cannot will another to understand who you are and completely accept you. And sometimes even words are not enough if you guys are in different pages and stages of your life. Friendship by definition is an acceptance of another for who they really are. It seems to me that you feel your feelings are not reciprocated by these guys, but this is life, and part of the risk of making yourself vulnerable and opening yourself up and what makes life worth living when someone, a friend, do understand us.

We really cannot follow an advice we do not understand. And we only really understand what it means once we experience it. But I am just going to take a pivot here about the idea of being silent and what really drawn me towards your topic. I would say this, do not wait to say these “silent” meaningful things to the people you love when they are gone. When my mother was diagnosed with cancer, I never really said things that were important before then, mostly because I have this naïve belief that she would be there forever. Trust when I tell you that I never really cried in front of anyone until that very moment, but I did. And I was not a very religious man but I did pray every day for her to be cured. Moments like this changes you and you realized just how trivial it is in being silent for fear of being hurt. You seem like a thoughtful and very reflective person, and this is just something to think about.
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Old 10th October 2013, 9:58 PM   #6
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hey yapa, i was told as young child to be silent and not tell what i had been through this was from five years of age enforced with the fact what happened was pretty bad....i was manipulated into silence from people who were bad....and then told to be silent from parents who were only trying to protect me from becoming news worthy...


i do understand now why i should have been silent, my parents were right...i broke my silence when i was about maybe ten and the reason my parents told me to be silent is that no one would understand they would react badly. the other was something like what was my secret would go public pretty quick.......sometimes silence is best...as a child.......as an adult.......i nurture openness with my children.......they can and do tell me everything.......it would be wonderful and so cool to feel you can be open with everyone and not have them judge you the fact is they will....i push my boundaries and i share my story even though as soon as i tell i have regret i do it anyway if i feel it gives meaning to someone else or helps someone else ....



the fact is when i tell it i have a mixed bag people who feel i am full of crap, looking for sympathy or attention...which i am not,that is what pretty much hurts me deeply...i just say hey dont worry you dont have to believe me....



another guy recently bought up the sympathy thing and it gets my back up every time...stuff yoru sympathy i dont need it dont want it stuff you...never said that though ...he has his own issues and i know he struggles so silence was my answer........this recent thing that happened to me someone said i was milking it when i said i was upset i was actually apologising to him for making him feel uncomfortable ..........i was actually also a little unwell a little paranoid depressed....and he ridiculed me.....said i was looking for attention i should go talk to my bishop if i needed help....i wasnt asking for help i hardly ever do.........he ended the friendship with me.....what can i do...i wrote back and told him it wasnt all about him me being upset was me had nothing to do with him.......i respected his wishes and said dont worry you wont hear from me again......i think that particular guy hurt me like i have not been hurt in years....i am used to beign called a retard a freaking idiot stupid fat ugly fat lard ass....but this guy was the oen to hurt me i ignore name calling and things i know are said to hurt me intentionally...this guy did it unintentionally....i am still here yapa, i am survivor a tired one sick of peoples inability to have compassion and understanding....am i guilty of not having those qualities sometimes...for sure........i can be selfish and inconsiderate but you know the difference with me...is i always say something simple .....sorry......and i mean it......


Quote:
And I also thought about how what I am doing might be asking them to change their behavior and that's not okay. But then I think about how if a person who had experiences with an eating disorder doesn't like you joking that she's fat or commenting on how much she's eating, which other people might just laugh at and not be bothered by, wouldn't you stop saying things like that to her because they know they bother her and she is insecure about that? Or, my mom is very sensitive about people indicating at all, even in playful and subtle ways, that she is not intelligent. Her mom used to call her an idiot a lot, so she is very sensitive to it, and because I know that, I am extra aware to make sure I don't say anything to her about that that maybe I could say to other people who do not have that insecurity. Or if there is a kid on a baseball team who is terrified to go up to bat and who feels awkward and afraid he's being judged out on the field, I feel like, if I was a member of the team, I would be more encouraging and subtly assuring to him when I see that he is starting to feel really bad and insecure. And I feel like I would be glad to know how much anxiety he has around playing baseball, so that I could look at some of his behaviors that I didn't understand and maybe thought were strange before, and now I can be like "Oh. I get it. Now that I understand you more, I am not going to misinterpret your actions, which makes me feel more comfortable because I now feel like I know how to navigate our relationship with you better because now we understand each other more."

this is called compassion when you consider someone else and how they may feel it isnt a world wide practice and it actually can be learned its a divine principle of being.....a lot of people just dont have it and i agree with you.....people should take into consideration how others feel and adjust how they treat a person.......


i remember one time on this board getting excited about a friend i was helping to leave her partner she had kids domestic violence situation......and so i came on here happy because she was going finally after years....and i wrote about it......i was climbing the walls nearly bursting with finality of a really bad situation could go around jumping up adn down she was still here so i came on love shack...you know what i got.......ridicule..a bit ganged up on........"who does that come on here, she isnt normal has a friend there" and laughing about it between themselves thinking themselves very clever in deciphering me and posting it ..........." another person when i told an incident that happened to me with sexual abuse as a five year old said "if its true you have my sympathy" theres that word again sympathy .....and not only that disbelief in opening a post where i ripped my guts out and wrote it all down.which as i said i actually dont find it easy because there is always regret..so deb being deb goes...dont worry about it it happened a long time ago you probably werent even born anyway....so i made out it was nothing that is me on the defense....apparently it was an older man who had said that and so he then got antsy in another thread i knew it was directed at me...saying "pffft apparently i wouldnt know i am too young etc etc again more ridicule on what i was sayign without understanding what i was saying...i was hurt he didnt beleive.........and again more judgement on me....




then someone said about just because i like kittens and puppies isnt good enough....and i lost it....schizo affective episode ensued...i went rank on here.....let more of my history out in the process....making it seem to be more unbelievable.......freaking fact was ....it was all true...so yeah sent me suicidal......i still am open on here i havent given up and think people dont see me as a troll anymore....or i hope not......if they do they dont ridicule me any more and some are quite defensive of me when others pull me up for my posting style........but....in all honesty......silence sometimes is best ....distance is best...even though i woudl love to be in the forever filled with compassionate loving kind understanding people ....we are not......none fo us are perfect ..one day we can work at it...works in progress....i think you have to love people whether they love you or not i think you have to try and understand that how you feel will nto be understood by most of the people you come in contact with.......


i ahve a postive for you.....through loveshack and helping other people in reality by sharing my story and how i feel about my past i was able to stand up in front of a scoiety of women at my church and tell them my story and i dotn think...this actually makes me teary ...i have ever in my life felt a sense of gratitude for not maintaining my silence........in other words telling my story to those women on that day during that ;lesson i tried to teach ....is a memory that causes me to cry now....with gratitude not with sadness that they lsitened they understood and i felt their love touching me from the stand.....not disbelief or ridicule but genuine thoughtful compassion and even love.......every week i go to church because i feel .....finally...i am home with some people who are just like me who believe in what i beleive in.....we can all eb different together....lol...luv them...smilin and they give hugs .....th emore they give the more i feel ok about that showing affection thing ....i can be me....yay...except for one so far who i cant be me with...when i miss church....i feel a loss ..that is what i needed...and one day who knows....maybe my belief that silence and not getting close to people ro sharing my story or how i feel........will never be a problem with me again i have years of not talkign to anyone...in my life i have had solitude and isolation..........in that solitude...it was alway6s me that ptu me there....i shut off.......and you do too....dotn shut off....i know how you feel......i validate your compassion for others i ask of you to show that compassion to yourself...if you do.....i will too....lots of love ...kisses even.....smilin atcha from a loveshack friend called deb

Last edited by todreaminblue; 10th October 2013 at 10:11 PM..
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