don't want to be rude but want to be heard

[griffinchicken53]

i'm more mad at myself than at anyone but still angry.

i think people think i'm stupid, ok i think women think i'm stupid.

several times i've talked to girls i know, or used to know and ran into. the mention of "let's do lunch" or hang out or talk sometime.

usually the answer is "i'm pretty busy" i'll let you know.

in 6 months of talking, they can't spare one hour to go eat? but have all the time in the world for their other friends?

or they say give them a call, and they don't answer. i want to say something but don't want to be dumb. i mean, maybe they are a day away from calling me. yea right!!!!

so what do i do? this keeps happening. if a girl won't hang out with me how can i hope for anything more?

[Ronni_W]

It can be very frustrating, that's for sure.

You have drawn the conclusion that women (must) think you're stupid, but that is not necessarily what's going on for them.

 

I might suggest that you ask all your close and trusted friends, males and females, for their kind and honest assessments as to how you come across to them and if they have any suggestions for how you can improve your chances with the ladies.

 

Give them permission to be truthful...as long as they are kind and compassionate. Be open to hearing what they have to tell you. As far as possible stay neutral and objective; sort of like you are observing what is being said as opposed to 'feeling' it/taking it personally.

Or you could even ask them to put it in an email.

 

Thank them for their feedback, then sort through it and decide what/where you want to change for yourself. Chances are there could be many little things that you can tweak, and maybe one or two that need a major overhaul.

 

Best of luck.

[griffinchicken53]

i've asked similar questions. and most people tell me asking questions like "am i annoying, what did i say wrong" actually is what drives people away.

my friends tell me nothing is wrong with me, it's the other people. but it is the other people i would like to add to my friends.

[Ronni_W]

I'm sure that there is nothing "wrong" with you. But evidence is suggesting that something that you are doing/saying with potential new friends isn't working -- we're just talking about your habits/tendencies, not who you are as a person.

 

Your friends may think that they are being "nice" and may not want to hurt your feelings but actually they are not helping you at all.

 

most people tell me asking questions like "am i annoying, what did i say wrong" actually is what drives people away.

Yep, asking those types of questions isn't too appealing, and it's not what I suggested.

What do you think are my best qualities? What areas can I improve in? Do I sometimes phrase things in ways that can be unclear or offensive? Do I come across as self-confident? What is my most annoying habit? If there was one thing about me that you could change, what would it be? What do I contribute to our relationship? What do you need more of, from me? What would you like to see less? Do I come across as assertive, passive or aggressive? Do I do a good job of expressing my needs, desires and feelings? Would you say I have a good sense of humour? Do you think I'm good at small talk/chit-chat? Do I come across as having a good variety of interests? How would you define my personality and 'personal style'? How would you describe me to somebody who hasn't met me?

 

Get the picture? The best questions are positive or neutral...not negative, as in the examples you shared. Also good to include lots of open-ended questions, where the answer has to be more in-depth than just 'yes' or 'no'.

 

You could even just send an email to the people you absolutely trust including family...of all ages. You can preface your questions with something like, "I am starting some personal development work, and would REALLY appreciate if you will take some time to help me. I am giving you permission to be honest, and promise to only use your feedback for my own growth. I may have follow-up questions, but I won't hound you to change your answers or your perspective of me. Your kind honesty will be invaluable, and I am most grateful."

 

Many people aren't comfortable answering these types of questions for others, and that's fine. But hopefully you'll have a few courageous people on your list, who will realize how important this is to you.

 

Of course, you really ought to answer all those questions for yourself, too -- you may be able to pinpoint some areas that you can work on without anybody's help.

Also for you: What are my needs, desires and goals? What do I value? For what do I hold myself accountable, and how do I hold myself accountable? What life skills do I feel I'm lacking or need to improve?

[griffinchicken53]

hey ronni. thanks for the advice. i see what you are saying, and it makes alot of sense. i will put it to good use. and you are right. i need to ask those questions of myself and come up with my own answers.

[griffinchicken53]

ronni, another question for you. or anyone else can chime in. do i make a questionaire, or just sort of pick one question and then ask someone that question, or should i ask several?

[boogieboy]

Honestly, I'd never ask anyone I know, or even people I absolutely trust these questions, because they tell you what you want to hear, not what you need to hear. If they feel like you will keep pushing on tough questions, they will tell you answers that they think will satisfy you and make you stop asking. No one wants to tell people whats wrong with them, because people cant handle guilt. Its frustrating.

 

Griffin you cant push on people who blow you off. Cowardly people also tell you to call them to get rid of you, because theyre too chicken to say "Youre not interesting enough for me to hang out with." Anyone who blows you off, you never call them again. People who actually enjoy your company will hang out with you, unless youre a pain in the ass about it and ask them out too many times. usually if you have a great personality, people always ask YOU to hang out.

 

Girls will come and go from your life. You dont keep girls too long. So dont worry about the ones you know, make new girl friends. Its always better that way. Because with girls, once they are blowing you off, you know they lost interest and you can move on.

 

Buy a book set like "double your dating" and it make you understand how to make friends and getting women to like you. It will tell you about dealing with your appearance, because people are shallow as hell...and how you can make yourslefmore interesting so people will be drawn to you.

[Ronni_W]

do i make a questionaire, or just sort of pick one question

How I did it, was chose about 4 questions that would give me the most useful insight into myself. I did it in an email and sent it (bcc) to several of my most trusted people.

 

BB is right, and as I mentioned before, a lot of people are uncomfortable answering such questions for others. What I found, though, is that those who did answer (not many at all) were honest about it. The ones who apparently didn't feel "right" about telling me my "negatives" didn't respond at all.

 

I used email so that they would have time to think about how they wanted to phrase their responses -- so that they wouldn't feel pressured and put on the spot. And I was clear that they'd be doing me a huge favour by helping with my personal development efforts.

 

This is ONE way of possibly gaining some insight into how you're coming across to others. If you get no responses, or what you get isn't too helpful, that's perfectly fine and acceptable. That's also the reason there are therapists and counselors...to help us when, collectively, our personal support network doesn't have the skills and other resources.

[Asami]

Honestly, I'd never ask anyone I know, or even people I absolutely trust these questions, because they tell you what you want to hear, not what you need to hear. If they feel like you will keep pushing on tough questions, they will tell you answers that they think will satisfy you and make you stop asking. No one wants to tell people whats wrong with them, because people cant handle guilt. Its frustrating.

 

Griffin you cant push on people who blow you off. Cowardly people also tell you to call them to get rid of you, because theyre too chicken to say "Youre not interesting enough for me to hang out with." Anyone who blows you off, you never call them again. People who actually enjoy your company will hang out with you, unless youre a pain in the ass about it and ask them out too many times. usually if you have a great personality, people always ask YOU to hang out.

 

Girls will come and go from your life. You dont keep girls too long. So dont worry about the ones you know, make new girl friends. Its always better that way. Because with girls, once they are blowing you off, you know they lost interest and you can move on.

 

Buy a book set like "double your dating" and it make you understand how to make friends and getting women to like you. It will tell you about dealing with your appearance, because people are shallow as hell...and how you can make yourslefmore interesting so people will be drawn to you.

 

I agree boogieboy, you made a really good point. I frequent another forum that focus on one of my many hobbies. I mentioned my upcoming move and someone sent me a pm, asking If I'd like to do a meet up to do girl stuff shopping etc..the second I mentioned the area that I'll be moving to, she stopped communication with me and ignored my pm accepting my invation so, yes people can be very shallow, I also got the feeling suddenly she felt like she didn't have anything in "common" with me. which is okay because it's her loss..so, I guess what I'm saying is..don't dwell on people that aren't interested on being friends with you...

[griffinchicken53]

after awhile (i'm sure others feel the same) it gets old saying "it's their loss" and having to keep saying it over and over and over. where are friends that want to stick around? i'm just someone people talk to until someone better looking or more intersting comes along.

[Ronni_W]

i'm just someone people talk to until someone better looking or more intersting comes along.

Griffin,

Short of plastic surgery, you can't do too much to change your looks. But you CAN do a helluva lot to change the way you feel about your looks.

For me, sexy and good looking go hand in hand. When I start feeling unattractive I make the effort to get my body into better shape...and I automatically start feeling sexy and good looking, again. Not saying that'll work for everybody...it's just what works for me. If you haven't tried it yet, though, it is an option I'd recommend.

 

You can do a hundred things to make yourself a more interesting person. Whatever "interesting" means to you, acquire the skills or knowledge in those areas. You come across as intelligent and self-aware, so there is absolutely no excuse for you to just keep being "uninteresting"!

 

More important than your looks, of course, is your outlook and your self-image. Make a list of your strengths and talents, and what you have to CONTRIBUTE to your friendships and the world at large. Refer to it daily...89 times a day if necessary -- reinforce for yourself that you do have positive qualities.

 

Here are a few personal development sites that you may find useful:

~ http://eqi.org/eqe96_1.htm ~ http://www.businessballs.com/empathy.htm ~ http://www.richbits.com/RBArchives/backissuesRBNEW.htm

~ http://ezinearticles.com/?Assertive-Communication---6-Tips-For-Effective-Use&id=10259

 

Pick whatever seems will be the most fun to learn more about. It really just depends on how much effort you are actually willing to make.

 

Hugs, and good luck.

[griffinchicken53]

thanks for the info. alot of things i'm good at other people don't care about. noone cares that i can go to home depot buy some lumber and build a custom bookcase. it doesn't impress anyone.

i just feel lost.

[Ronni_W]

Griffin,

I totally get that you're feeling lost. It can also be frustrating when we start looking for answers but they take their sweet time showing up.

Well, actually. You've started asking some important questions, and noticing what could be problems in how you've been doing things. Now you do have to start making the effort to find your own answers and solutions.

 

noone cares that i can go to home depot buy some lumber and build a custom bookcase. it doesn't impress anyone.

It will impress the people who recognize the talent and skills required to do that. The more important question is: Does it impress YOU?

The thing about something like that is that it is not of general interest -- in general, nobody gives a crap about my excellent bookkeeping skills, either...except at a "bookkeepers' convention"...then EVERYONE in the room would be impressed! So, if we are looking for external "validation", then we have to hang with people who have the insight and knowledge to appreciate whatever we're needing external "validation" about. Know what I mean?

 

You've chosen one thing and said that they DO NOT appreciate it. What is it that they DO appreciate?

 

What are your other interests besides carpentry? Can you intelligently discuss a variety of subjects? Sports, music, science, politics, movies? Being able to talk about different things is what makes people interesting, and being interested in others makes the Self interesting, as strange as that may sound.

 

Another thing to look at is what qualities do you possess that you can GIVE to your friends, to support, encourage and uplift them? Examples are: sense of humour, ability to listen without judgment, kindness, respect, acceptance, forgiveness, etc.

 

I don't know that I can offer you much more, but do feel free to repost or to PM me, if you feel that I can.

Hugs.

[dgiirl]

It's hard to give advice without knowing your gender or your true intentions.

 

I'm going on the assumption that you are male and you are trying to befriend some female acquaintances. Trying to move from being someone's acquaintance to becoming friends can be a very difficult task. It's hard when dealing with the same gender, but if you are male, you have the added difficulty of the male-female friendship. These women could be taking your invitation as a sign of interest to date them, especially if you are inviting them to a one on one thing like dinner, coffee, movie, etc.

 

Also, in which context do you know these girls? A lot of people prefer to keep their private home life separate from their job or school life. I prefer to do this. It allows me to distance myself from any possible work drama that arises when you work with friends. You should not take that as a slight against you.

 

It does sound like you already have a group of real friends. You are just interested in growing that network of friends by adding some new?

 

If your interest in these girls is truly platonic, then you need to invite these girls out to a non-threatening environment. The easiest is if they know other people will be invited AND if they can bring any of their own friends/boyfriends along with them. Women dont really like to go anywhere on their own unless they feel 100% comfortable where they are going and who they are meeting. If a woman knows other people will be invited AND she can invite some of her closer friends, then she wont feel the added pressure of having to keep up her side of the conversation with just an acquaintance. Until you guys hang out more, and see if you guys have the same interests and mesh as friends, you will remain an acquaintance.

[D-Lish]

thanks for the info. alot of things i'm good at other people don't care about. noone cares that i can go to home depot buy some lumber and build a custom bookcase. it doesn't impress anyone.

i just feel lost.

 

Are you coming across as a downer to people you meet in real life? That's the way you come across in this thread- and trust me, that will drive people away.

 

Do you think you give off the "poor me" vibe? Do you get overly anxious at any opportunity of a meeting? Do you think you give the impression that you are trying way too hard?

 

You're putting yourself down on this thread- is this something that you do in real life conversations? Think about how you communicate with other people- maybe you can answer some of these questions and then we can go from there okay?

 

There may be some things you are doing that you don't even realize are detrimental to your chances of developing new relationships.

 

Are you the type of person that when asked "how are you doing???" answers: "I'm great, things are going well!".... or do you immediately launch into a diatribe about how things never seem to work out for you?

 

Maybe we can figure out what sort of vibe you are giving off and how to change it so it works in your favour.

[Left in a Lurch]

It does get really frustrating when you ask people to do things and get the answers like, "we'll see" or "call me" and when you do they never call back.

I know they did not think I was stupid, but avoiding having to reject me face to face. Remember they never asked to be put in a position to have to reject me face to face.

 

"i've asked similar questions. and most people tell me asking questions like "am i annoying, what did i say wrong" actually is what drives people away."

 

This makes sense. I wonder if a lot of people are put off because you come across as really needy and not many people want to have much to do with overly needy people because it becomes a relationship all about the needy person, it's not a mutual friendship and provides no real benefit to the other person.

 

If I had to guess, rejection has probably made you do things like when you ask a person if they want to meet up sometime and they say, "possibly", you pepper them to get a firm commitment and if they don't give you an exact "yes" answer, you start to ask them why they won't commit. That comes across as needy.

 

I know how it can be because sometimes trying to date someone I find myself doing the same thing, and I know if I just took their answer calmly and didn't try to qualify their answer as a firm yes or no, I would come off better.

 

Look at it like this- if someone that always had horrible body odor asked you to hang out with them, and other than the body odor he or she was really nice, you would try to get out of it nicely. If they kept pressing you, they would push you away further. You wouldn't think they were stupid, but most people wouldn't answer, "no thanks, I am not interested in hanging out in you."

 

A lot of times you can hear hesitation in their voice and catch body language that tells you they don't really want to hang out.

[doushenka]

thanks for the info. alot of things i'm good at other people don't care about. noone cares that i can go to home depot buy some lumber and build a custom bookcase. it doesn't impress anyone.

i just feel lost.

 

Hey, that kind of impresses me -- I have way too many books and not enough bookshelves! I think I need to learn how to build them. :-)

[griffinchicken53]

you do have me figured out. i'm a down person. sometimes i don't realize it until later exactly what i said and how i said it. i do try to hide it, but it gets difficult at times.

whenever it is mixed company, or other people around, i tend to get pushed to the side. i guess that is why i fight so hard for it to be a one-on-one thing. otherwise people forget i'm there. say it is a night at the movies, i get pushed to the end with all the couples or the seating ends up i have to sit on the row behind everyone...by myself.

a night of bowling, say there are 2 lanes, i get put on the lane with no girls, or couples, and then i'm stuck watching the other guys get flirted with, and i'm not noticed.

i would like platonic friendships, and yea i'd prefer a few female friends. i don't have an interest in some, just would like to hang out. they are just people i know either through other friends or that i knew through school a few years back and have seen out at places.

the example of the person with bad body odor, i would do the same as has been done to me. if someone asked me if they were annoying, even if they were i wouldn't answer truthfully, i wouldn't want to hurt someone's feelings.

i was friends with this girl....and yea i liked her, and at some point i told her. but we worked together and went to lunch. there was a time she was friends with this other guy and he would come out to lunch. she asked if i cared if he come with. well i found out later, even though he was married, they were kind of talking/dating/ or whatever, and was using me as a cover so his wife wouldn't think anything.

and this was another thing with people from work. alot of people were out at this restaurant/club. some people are getting up and going dancing. this guy and girl from work end up hooking up that night, making out. so everyone scatters, and the waiter brings the bill, a few people were still around to tell what they owed, etc. i tried to get the "newly happy couple" and this other girl plastered out of her mind. long story short, the waiter was looking at us kind of mean cuz he was standing there waiting on me to get these people back. so i said "_ _ _ _ it" and ended up paying 100 bucks for a bunch of people, none of which paid me back. i had to drive one person home, then the "happy couple" had the nerve to call me to come get them cuz the guy's friend didn't show up. so i get all the way back, and then they tell me they got the ride after all.

 

so yea, i'm turned off by trying to make new friends with a group. i just end up with hurt.

what's bad also is there is alot of good advice you people have given me. but i'll keep asking questions, and then won't actually do anything to better myself.

[Ronni_W]

Griffin,

I think you may have identified your behaviour that is doing the most self-damage:

what's bad also is there is alot of good advice you people have given me. but i'll keep asking questions, and then won't actually do anything to better myself.

Nobody likes being played for a sucker, having their time wasted, their energy depleted, their kindness taken for granted and their compassion abused.

 

It shows great self-awareness that you've identified how you are self-sabotaging. But that is not enough to stop people from mistreating you exactly the same way that you say you have been mistreating them.

 

If you want people to take you seriously, respect you, treat you as if you are valuable and important...then you must give that to them, too.

"Do unto others," you know?

 

Now go and ACTUALLY do something that will promote your self-improvement...because that's the only way you're going to be able to develop more enriching and rewarding friendships. You have to be able to enrich and reward others. Otherwise you are just always going to be the needy, clingy, pessimistic, dependent one that people will do their best to avoid or, if that isn't possible, to ignore.

[griffinchicken53]

Nobody likes being played for a sucker, having their time wasted, their energy depleted, their kindness taken for granted and their compassion abused.

 

i hope noone thinks i have played anyone here for a sucker or wasted anyone's time.

"mistreating" seems like a harsh word. i don't want to mistreat anyone. i do try to treat others the way i would want to be treated. i ask how people are doing, and i actually listen. i try to offer advice. i offer to help if they need something. i guess i'm getting defensive on this sorry. maybe i'm a bad person, i don't want to be that. but i understand what is being said here.

everyone's comments are greatly appreciated, i just get overwhelmed at times. i'm sorry.

[griffinchicken53]

ronni, i've added the 4 links you gave me to my favorite places so i can reread the info and absorb it. sometimes i think i am looking for a quick fix that takes no effort. and i know it doesn't work like that.

[Ronni_W]

Yep, see. That's part of the problem. If you've been getting defensive when you ask your questions and get your answers, that's why your friends aren't telling you the truth about yourself.

 

When you do hear "difficult truths" that may apply to you, you start making excuses, and going all 'victim' and "I must be a bad person." What's your intent, with that? Looking for reassurance that you're not? Wanting people to get off your back? Needing people to go, "There, there, no worries"?

 

Asking people for something, anything -- including their suggestions, ideas, observations, etc. -- when you have no intention of actually using what you receive IS mistreatment. It IS wasting, and not respecting, other people's time, energy, effort and concern.

 

Different if you don't get any useful observations or helpful suggestions. But you said that you got "good advice" that you plan to ignore. There are no apologies necessary...except to yourself, for not doing what you need to do to create your own happy and successful life.

 

All of that said. You are NOT a "bad person". You are a lovable, acceptable, valuable and important person. But you are giving in to some bad habits and attitudes, that are causing your life to not be everything that it can be and that you want it to be.

[Ronni_W]

ronni, i've added the 4 links you gave me to my favorite places so i can reread the info and absorb it.

Glad to hear that, griffin!

You're so right that there are no quick fixes for self-improvement. But you deserve the effort that it will take, don't you think?

And it will take time to learn the material, and apply it to your own attitude, habits, behaviours, etc. But you are worth the time, yes?

 

Hugs and good luck.

[griffinchicken53]

i didn't mean to sound as though i'm asking for advice I'm never going to use. it is one of those things where i say i will start next week and then just keep putting it off. making excuses, etc. i would read the info tonight, just have to get up early.

[dgiirl]

As Ronni pointed out, I do hope whatever I'm writing here will not be left on deaf ears.

 

In any case, I reiterate what I said previously. In order to go from being someones acquaintance to becoming a friend, you need to provide people a safe environment for them to get to know you. Group outings are the perfect way to do this. The reason why these group outings do not work for you is because you are not allowing people to get to know you. Instead you sit in the corner and do not interact with people. When given the chance to get to know you in a group outing, all they see is a very introverted person who barely interacts with them. How are they suppose to infer what a one on one interaction will be with you? They are going to assume it will be the same except ALL of the pressure will be on them to keep the conversation going. Plus, I know from personal experience (I'm an introvert) that a lot of people misinterpret introverts to be boring, rude, and/or snobs. Who wants to hang out with that? You have to show them different! Show them you are fun and interesting to hang out with. But first you have to believe it yourself. If you cannot believe it, why should anyone else?

 

 

I'm disturbed by your choice of words that you are "forced to be" on the team with just couples, or "forced to be" at the table with no people. You are giving up your own responsibility for your own actions and allow yourself to feel you have no choice in your life. This way of thinking is to your own detriment, allowing you to have self pity but also immobilizes you from taking action to change things. Definitely not healthy and I see the same way of negative thinking throughout all your responses here. "I'm a bad person" "They think I'm stupid", etc. Think about your internal dialog. What are the things you say to yourself? Would you ever say any of these things to anyone else?

 

Last point, I wouldnt try to be friends with your co-workers. As you've seen, there's too much negative drama, and when you are at work, you should be concentrated on work 100%, not what's going on with your co-workers.

 

Instead, join some hobbies that get you out of the house and interacting with new people. Try Meetup.com or the like to get an idea of the types of hobbies/activities people are doing and then try to find something in your local area. By choosing a hobby/activity that you are semi-interested in gives you at least one thing in common with a potential new friend.