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I think I lost my best friend.


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Old 14th May 2007, 11:49 PM   #1
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I think I lost my best friend.

I'm a musician. My husband and I are in a band with some friends.

Well I have this other friend who is musicly inclined who I thought we could use. So I asked her to start playing with us a few months ago. After the first practice we knew she wasn't working out. But none of us told her.
So I sent her an email telling her she better improve her playing or were kicking her out. I called her and asked her if she thought the email was rude. She told me yes she thought so. So I said I'm sorry and that I was just blowing off steam. I'm a brutally honest person and I don't mess around. The things I told her in the email were rude but they were true.
Time went by, and she imporved a little, but her talent just doesn't match ours.
So I told her that practice this last time was important. When she got there I told her we have a live show coming and she got all excited. we played for a few hours. I could tell she was really enjoying herself. After we got done I took her out in the driveway and told her we knew from the beginning we weren't keeping her. She didn't take it too well. She sad "why didn't you tell me back then because now I wated all this time learning these songs and stuff." I told her we have our first live show coming up and we don't want her on stage with us. And I told her this is what it's like to be a real musician.
I think it's pretty wrong of her to think it was a waste of her time. I knew how bad she always wanted to play in a band and how much she loves music. So we gave her the opertunity to fullfill that dream. I think she should be grateful because we didn't waste none of her time. We let her do something she always wanted to do.
Now I don't think she wants to be my friend anymore. I emailed her a few days later and asked her to go somewhere with me on Sunday and all she said was "I have to work sunday and then I'm going to see my Mom."
This makes me mad. I can't believe she would withdraw from me just because I kicked her out of my band. She's lucky we let her stay with us for that long.
Thoughts?
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Old 14th May 2007, 11:53 PM   #2
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... After the first practice we knew she wasn't working out. But none of us told her.

...So I told her that practice this last time was important. When she got there I told her we have a live show coming and she got all excited. we played for a few hours. I could tell she was really enjoying herself. After we got done I took her out in the driveway and told her we knew from the beginning we weren't keeping her. She didn't take it too well. She sad "why didn't you tell me back then because now I wated all this time learning these songs and stuff." I told her we have our first live show coming up and we don't want her on stage with us. And I told her this is what it's like to be a real musician.
Maybe, but it's not what it's like to be a friend. By treating her like a "real musician" you started a new relationship with her. And by keeping it from her that you knew from the beginning that you weren't going to keep her, you sent the message that you were focused on your musician relationship with her over your friendship. That's fine if that's your decision, but then don't be mystified that she might think your friendship is damaged...

You even told her that the last practice was important, when you already knew you didn't want to keep her. Why do that? It sounds a little sadistic, like you were just toying with her

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I think it's pretty wrong of her to think it was a waste of her time. I knew how bad she always wanted to play in a band and how much she loves music. So we gave her the opertunity to fullfill that dream. I think she should be grateful because we didn't waste none of her time. We let her do something she always wanted to do.
B.S. If you are really a musician, you know that we live to perform - practice and rehearsal is a means to the end, and NOTHING compared to the feeling of playing a gig. You told her you had a live gig coming up, you saw her excitement, and you let her participate in the rehearsal with enthusiasm, knowing all the time you were going to dump her. Do you not get that she would feel like she wasted her time?

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Now I don't think she wants to be my friend anymore. I emailed her a few days later and asked her to go somewhere with me on Sunday and all she said was "I have to work sunday and then I'm going to see my Mom."
This makes me mad. I can't believe she would withdraw from me just because I kicked her out of my band. She's lucky we let her stay with us for that long.
Thoughts?
I think you are patronizing, too.

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I'm a musician.
She knows that now. And she knows you can't balance that with being a friend.
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Old 15th May 2007, 12:03 AM   #3
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^ Okie then. I assume you are a musician also. The you sorta understand where I'm coming from a little.

How would you feel if one of your band mates told you there ultimate goal was to play a gig? That's what she told me on the phone after I emailed her. I asked her what she hoped to accomplish being in this band, and she said "Well, I guess to play a live gig."

Isn't that smarmy!?

ANd before I told her we were dumping her I asked her if she feels spiritually about our music and has a passion for it. She was like "Well if I didn't have a passion for it I wouldn't have put so much effort in."

The I asked her if she feels the same way about our music as the music she listens to. And she was like "Well I think it's pretty arogant to compare myself to the musicians I look up to, so no I guess not."

I won't say we were right in how we treated her. Every practice when she woul;d leave we'd stand around and make fun of her. She always made dumb faces when she played. It was funny. It was nothing personal.

But one time I started playing her instrument. I think I played better then she did and I never even played it before. I just think she lacked a lot of talent and charisma and I'm not having that in my band. Especially for our first live gig. No way, sorry.

I just wish she would have been a little more appreciative of the favor we did for her.

Okie thats the end of my rant.
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Old 15th May 2007, 12:06 AM   #4
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I also want to say that she has already had an offer to join another band. So it all worked out in the end anyway.

I just want to know how I can be friends with her again.
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Old 15th May 2007, 12:44 AM   #5
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Wow, are you totally dense? I don't know how this girl even put up with you for one second, especially since you consider your patronizing friendship such a "favor." If you really wanted this girl as a friend, you shouldn't have mixed business with pleasure, ESPECIALLY if you knew from the beginning that she couldn't cut it. You strike me as an incredibly cruel and selfish person in just the way you speak about someone you consider a "friend." I hope you lost her, because her life will be a lot better now that you're out of it . . .
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Old 15th May 2007, 12:52 AM   #6
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Okie then. I assume you are a musician also. The you sorta understand where I'm coming from a little.
I understand your musical decisions and attitudes, but not your personal ones.

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How would you feel if one of your band mates told you there ultimate goal was to play a gig? That's what she told me on the phone after I emailed her. I asked her what she hoped to accomplish being in this band, and she said "Well, I guess to play a live gig."

Isn't that smarmy!?
Uh.... that is exactly our goal; it's the whole reason we're together. I don't understand how that is smarmy? Maybe I'm missing something... what is your goal?

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And before I told her we were dumping her I asked her if she feels spiritually about our music and has a passion for it. She was like "Well if I didn't have a passion for it I wouldn't have put so much effort in."

The I asked her if she feels the same way about our music as the music she listens to. And she was like "Well I think it's pretty arogant to compare myself to the musicians I look up to, so no I guess not."
Again, I don't particularly see how this is unreasonable. I'm in a band that plays a kind of music that is not my first choice of styles, but I still have fun and enjoy it, and as a result, I put a great deal of passion into it, quite earnestly. As an example, do you know how many "pure jazz" cats out there are road or studio players for rock, pop, or country singers/bands? Playing to play, even if it's not your only stylistic passion: that's part of being a "real" musician, too.

Maybe you see yourself as an "artist", who will refuse to stray from your vision and won't consider anything else. More power to you if so, but there are lots of "real musicians" out there who are driven by a craving to play. If this was her drive, then you offered it to her, knowing you wouldn't come through on the offer, then pulled the rug out at the last minute, just as she was enthusiastically enjoying herself and right at the cusp of reaching her goal, and essentially laughed at her in the process.

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I won't say we were right in how we treated her. Every practice when she would leave we'd stand around and make fun of her. She always made dumb faces when she played. It was funny. It was nothing personal.
Although I find this behavior distasteful, as musicians, I don't suppose it is unusual, but you are here wringing your hands over your lost friendship. If you were her friend, it should have been personal - a friend would have at least stood up for her when others started making fun of her. That wouldn't have made you any less of a musician, and you would have been a lot more of a friend. Whether she know specifically about the "making fun" incidents or not, I think they speak volumes about your feelings about her, and she probably got some sense of that from your other dealings with her.

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I just think she lacked a lot of talent and charisma and I'm not having that in my band. Especially for our first live gig. No way, sorry.
Fair enough - a musical and artistic decision that I accept you had to make. My difficulty is in the way you handled it, and your attitude that she should be so grateful that you did her a big favor, while you knowingly deceived her about her chances with the band.

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I also want to say that she has already had an offer to join another band. So it all worked out in the end anyway.
That's good for her...

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I just want to know how I can be friends with her again.
It may be that your behavior has revealed to her a side of you that she doesn't like, or at least doesn't understand, and she has re-evaluated her desire to be your friend.

What do you get out of a friendship with this person that you would deceive and make fun of behind her back?
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Old 15th May 2007, 12:55 AM   #7
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I didn't kick her out in the beginning because I didn't want to upset her. But I knew I had to let her go before the gig.

How am I so dense and cruel? Because I let my friend do something she always wanted and let her do it for months instead of hours?

She is a great artist and a kickass website designer. We also thought by having her in the band we could get our website done for free and our logo. Now we don't know what we will do for a logo/website. I want to ask her to do it but I don't know how she'll be about it.

Also do you think it would be wrong of me to invite her to our gig? I would really like it if she came. I need as much moral support as I can get.
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Old 15th May 2007, 1:05 AM   #8
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I didn't kick her out in the beginning because I didn't want to upset her. But I knew I had to let her go before the gig.

How am I so dense and cruel? Because I let my friend do something she always wanted and let her do it for months instead of hours?
Because you knew that "what she always wanted to do" was to play a gig, and you flat out deceived her about that. Your behavior was cruel because of the deception and mockery you perpetrated on a "friend" (to get website and logo help, no less!), and dense in that you have no empathy for her feelings of loss of the goal that she worked towards in good faith, and her feelings of betrayal at your deception and absence of good faith.

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She is a great artist and a kickass website designer. We also thought by having her in the band we could get our website done for free and our logo. Now we don't know what we will do for a logo/website. I want to ask her to do it but I don't know how she'll be about it.
I'm just going to go out on a limb here and take a guess that she might not be too favorably disposed...

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Also do you think it would be wrong of me to invite her to our gig? I would really like it if she came. I need as much moral support as I can get.
You should probably expect as much moral support, with the same amount of honesty and good faith in her heart, as you gave her.

Last edited by Trimmer; 15th May 2007 at 1:07 AM..
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Old 15th May 2007, 1:13 AM   #9
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What is my goal, my goal is to have fun doing this, not just to be in the spotlight.

What do I get out of my friendship with her? To tell the truth she inspires me. She's also very funny and she always makes me laugh. And she's also a good listener. I like having a close female friend because I don't have many.

But she has her lessdesirable qualities too. She played keys for us and one time during practice she started playing the damn Star Wars theme in between songs! What the hell? I know we weren't exactly playing anything at the time, we were just all standing around bsing, and she started doing that. Weather she says she was just being funny or not I didn't think it was funny at all. It was like she was saying "Hey! look at me! I can play star wars!"

Trimmer, your in a band. Tell me this. How bad is it that she had to write down on a peace of paper what voice to use for each song? Her keyboard had like 500 voices on it and her excuse was that sometimes she forgets what goes with what. Come on! Like it's that hard to remember what number to punch in for each song? This is why I say she lacked talent. It's not so much she played badly, but she was scateeredbrained and unfocused at times.

We have one song that is a sad war song (very Metallica "one"esque. And she used a friggin church organ sound for it. What the hell is that all about? I guess I shouldn't say she lacked talent, but she lacked musical common sense.
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Old 15th May 2007, 1:15 AM   #10
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I just had a thought. Perhaps we just don't do well wiht Keyboard players. We had a guy on keys before her and we booted his ass out because he sucked.

I've also noticed that people who play keys are usually wierd odd people. I don't know... just my observation.
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Old 15th May 2007, 1:15 AM   #11
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yep

Thank you Trimmer-

"You should probably expect as much moral support, with the same amount of honesty and good faith in her heart, as you gave her."

Girl, you need a wakeup call. How can you treat a person like this and then expect her to remain your friend and/or do favors for you? FOR FREE nontheless! You are not this girl's friend. You are out for all you can steal/abuse, and are either too selfish or too clueless to cop up to it.

If you were really her friend and wanted to see her fulfill her dream, you would have encouraged her to join (or referred her to join) another band on her same level- right from the beginning. You wanted the free labor and emotional superiority perks of her being there, not what was best for her.
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Old 15th May 2007, 1:57 AM   #12
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But she has her lessdesirable qualities too. She played keys for us and one time during practice she started playing the damn Star Wars theme in between songs! What the hell? I know we weren't exactly playing anything at the time, we were just all standing around bsing, and she started doing that. Weather she says she was just being funny or not I didn't think it was funny at all. It was like she was saying "Hey! look at me! I can play star wars!"

Trimmer, your in a band. Tell me this. How bad is it that she had to write down on a peace of paper what voice to use for each song? Her keyboard had like 500 voices on it and her excuse was that sometimes she forgets what goes with what. Come on! Like it's that hard to remember what number to punch in for each song? This is why I say she lacked talent. It's not so much she played badly, but she was scateeredbrained and unfocused at times.

We have one song that is a sad war song (very Metallica "one"esque. And she used a friggin church organ sound for it. What the hell is that all about? I guess I shouldn't say she lacked talent, but she lacked musical common sense.
You keep responding with how bad she is or how she was a bad musical fit for your band, or lacked the same sensibility as you. I take no issue with your decision not to keep her in the band. That's a valid artistic choice, and one you have the prerogative to make, but it could have been executed honorably.

I will say it again: You don't need to justify your artistic decisions; you are here asking about your friendship. None of the musical/artistic issues you mention (scatterbrained, unfocused, playing Star Wars, writing down keyboard patch numbers to stay organized) justifies your personal behavior toward her. I believe that you didn't treat her like a friend would have. Quite the opposite, by your knowing deception and mockery.

Do you have any empathy for how she might have felt?

Last edited by Trimmer; 15th May 2007 at 1:59 AM..
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Old 15th May 2007, 2:22 AM   #13
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I don't know if I have empathy. I feel bad for her, but hey, that's life. The world is a mean place and I think she deserved a little wake up call. And if she wanted to stay so bad she could have been a better musician.

I see it just as much her fault that she was kicked out. She could have remembered her "Patch numbers" is that what you called them? She could have stayed focused in between songs instead of cutting up playing stupid movie themes that no one else cares about.

But yes. I feel bad for her. I'm glad she was invited to join another band. But I wonder how long it will be before they too tire of her antics. I also feel bad because she is such a wasted comodity. She really does play well, but her actions cancel that out. It seems like a lot of potemtial down the drain if you ask me.

She was a lot calmer then I expected or hoped for. I was expecting her to tell me off. Instead she calmly packed up her gear while we all stood around talking about the gig. Before she walked out the door she said "Later." and that was it. I was honestly expecting a more dramatic exit, and a little disappointed she didn't give me one, being the oh-so grand performer she is.

I also feel bad that I don't have anyone to go driving with anymore (assuming she has ended her friednship with me.) Her and I used to like to go on long drives together. She is also younger then I am and I gave her a lot of guidance. Now who will she go to for that guidance?

I moved here from four states away six years ago. She is the only close friend I've had since I moved here. She's also one of the few people I can trust to watch my daughter. I won't leave my kid with anyone you know. Now who will watch my kid?

And what about her? If se doens't plan on being my friend anymore she could grow a pair and tell me instead of acting like a little coward about it. When I first asked her to come and joiun the band I asked her if things don't work out would that affect our friendship. And she told me no. That firckin liar!
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Old 15th May 2007, 2:30 AM   #14
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Did I also mention my husband and I got in a fight over this chick. Not over her, but because of her.

We threw a party a few months ago that was basically a practice but with a lot of people listening. While my husband does vocals and he was introducing the band. He introduced her as a band member and that enraged me. And it didn't help that little miss thing just gave the metal hand sign and smiled at the crown like she was important or something.

I took him down to our room and asked him how the hell he could introduce her as one of us. she isn't one of us. He said he did it out of courtesy, but for who? me or her.
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Old 15th May 2007, 2:34 AM   #15
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I don't know if I have empathy. I feel bad for her, but hey, that's life. The world is a mean place and I think she deserved a little wake up call. And if she wanted to stay so bad she could have been a better musician.

I see it just as much her fault that she was kicked out. She could have remembered her "Patch numbers" is that what you called them? She could have stayed focused in between songs instead of cutting up playing stupid movie themes that no one else cares about.
Again, I'm not focusing on the musical issues. You asked about your friendship - I'm asking if you empathize with how she felt being deceived by you about her chances with the band.

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She was a lot calmer then I expected or hoped for. I was expecting her to tell me off. Instead she calmly packed up her gear while we all stood around talking about the gig. Before she walked out the door she said "Later." and that was it. I was honestly expecting a more dramatic exit, and a little disappointed she didn't give me one, being the oh-so grand performer she is.
So you are disappointed that she made a quiet, graceful exit? That she didn't "give you" something more dramatic? You do sound like you enjoy maniuplating her.

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And what about her? If se doens't plan on being my friend anymore she could grow a pair and tell me instead of acting like a little coward about it. When I first asked her to come and joiun the band I asked her if things don't work out would that affect our friendship. And she told me no. That firckin liar!
Uh.... "if things don't work out" probably didn't include being deceived, mocked, and used by you. I give her a pass on that one.

And don't you just imagine she might be thinking, "if she didn't plan on me being in the band from the start, she could grow a pair and tell me instead of acting like a little coward about it."

This isn't about the music. Do you understand that you lied to and mocked your former friend?
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