Moria Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Cannot believe it. Lost promotion to new hire. Here I am in line for promotion. Say all the right things and have been at company over a decade in increasing responsible roles. The position comes open. We are both interviewing. Part time folks are not protected by seniority clause so we are both given equal hearing. 3 interviews later. I am not in the running at all and he is announced as the new manager. Good grief. What do I do now? The boss states she defferred to the panel of nonsupervisory persons. No one has said a word to me. I sent a note to one on the panel to have coffee sometime and hope there is a followup discussion some time. Is it proper for me to phone someone on the panel? What did I do? Do I bring this to a grievance and risk losing any work at all? Is it possible it is a credit check? Over 9 years ago we had a bankruptcy but it has since been without a concern. Please advise. I want to be dignified and it is the 3 rd time in 2 years. I am happy with my work and get wonderful reviews. Past positions were in other departments. This position is in my own department. The past managers hired never had three interviews including panel interview but it could be how rules are now interpretted under new director. It was nice to have a full hearing, all were polite but how does one learn the true reasons not hired? Should I change companies completely? Link to post Share on other sites
brashgal Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 You already work for the company, correct? I can't imagine them running a credit check on you as you are already employed there. Guessing there is something else that made you a secondary candidate. I would definitely ask all the panel members what you could do to be more competitive in the future. Depending upon what they tell you, you might decide to leave the company. It does not bode well that your boss is not discussing why the other candidate was chosen unless s/he had no input to the hiring process. Chin up - best to come across positive and direct, no whining, no waffling. Link to post Share on other sites
amerikajin Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 This is going to sound blunt, but I base this on my experiences of having seen this type of situation before. Basically, they don't think you're the person for the job. I don't know why that is, but if they insist on hiring outside three times in two years, chances are, you'll never get the job. My other hunch is, it probably has more to do with their personal perception of you rather than your actual merit. Someone, or perhaps more than one person, doesn't like something about the manner in which you conduct yourself, which is not necessarily saying that they don't like you; it's just that they see some kind of personality flaw that, in their minds, doesn't fit with the position they're hiring for. They can't see you in that position. That's what it comes down to. I know that's blunt, but that's my take on it. I've seen this happen before in a number of situations and every time, this has happened it has been related more to personality issues than merit. In short, get a new job when you're ready, and just quietly leave on good terms. They'll understand, and they'll probably be supportive as long as you don't try to torch them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Becoming Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Agree with both of above. Ask for specific feedback as to why you aren't promoted, what you could be doing that you haven't. Could it possibly be sexism? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Moria Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 Moving forward. I did get some feedback, the panel does not want to be on record or ackwardly trash the other person but they are very very sympathetic. Spoken encouragement to hang in there and see how hurt I am. The boss even is going out of the way to increase my assignments and utilize me. Whoopee....meanwhile I am questioning how much of a doormat I really am and would it not be nice to have someone just say....you have too many children and commitments, too many distractions and we need you for your flexibility...but really I need the benefits and the focused support and cannot wait forever. Company obviously can endur training and waiting til new person is up and running. Is it sexism, ageism and just plain personality. Probably. Meanwhile 4 coworkers have appproached me to file a greivance. I love what I do. I just want to be recognized and properly backed up. Serve my company and my time. Boss knows that they have my loyalty, flexibility and passion. How can I get an edge on the competition? When I was asked what would you do if you do not get the job....I should have said, leave. Perhaps we all are self actualized and doing what we are meant to do and it was mine to lose. They see me as useful in a random nonambitious way to fill in and be all things to everybody. Job hopping is stressful too.....to leave is to admit defeat. I need some new skills in negotiation and expectations. If I expect to be promoted .....somehow I need to get others on the same mindset... Link to post Share on other sites
amerikajin Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Moria, You said that you have children and commitments. Unfortunately, some employers do discriminate against married women, assuming that they are 'too busy' to take on the extra work load. I wouldn't file any grievances. I also think you did the right thing by not saying anything to them about what you'd do if you didn't get the job - they could use that against you if you had. I think the thing to do now is find a place that's more open-minded about your advancement. Sorry this didn't work out. It probably had nothing to do with merit, but I find that a lot of jobs really aren't about merit anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
brashgal Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 ....they are very very sympathetic. Spoken encouragement to hang in there and see how hurt I am. The boss even is going out of the way to increase my assignments and utilize me. Whoopee....meanwhile I am questioning how much of a doormat I really am and would it not be nice to have someone just say....you have too many children and commitments, too many distractions and we need you for your flexibility...but really I need the benefits and the focused support and cannot wait forever. ....................... They see me as useful in a random nonambitious way to fill in and be all things to everybody. Job hopping is stressful too.....to leave is to admit defeat. I need some new skills in negotiation and expectations. If I expect to be promoted .....somehow I need to get others on the same mindset... Ouch, I was kind of afraid of this. Pity won't get you a promotion and of course they can't say anything about your outside commitments, that would constitute discrimination (but you know that). Unless your load lightens (kids move out or somehow they perceive you have fewer commitments), their treatment of you probably will not change. Or if there is major management turnover (new players, new attitudes). If it's a good job and company and there is possibility of interesting lateral movement then staying there may be best for now. You have to decide how badly you want the management title and what your prospects are outside the company. Good luck - hope the planets align for you soon. Link to post Share on other sites
justagirliegirl Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 I agree with amerikajin. You have been there a long time. If you were going to get promoted, they would have done so by now. There is something. Hard to say what it is. Maybe they think you have too much home responsibilites. Maybe it is relationships at work. Many times friends of the boss get promoted. Those who network and such get ahead. As for staying until you promoted, that is usually a dead end. It becomes trying to prove you are worthy to them and letting other good opportunities pass you by. Kind of like trying to win approval from a critical parent type of thing. I knew one woman who worked at a place for 20 years trying to get promoted to manager. It never happened. They just never saw her as management. I would start looking elsewhere for a place who will value your skills. Many times you will find yourself in a much better situation than you could have ever imagined. Link to post Share on other sites
Becoming Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 When I was asked what would you do if you do not get the job....I should have said, leave. Sounds like you answered yourself here. Perhaps we all are self actualized and doing what we are meant to do and it was mine to lose. Now, wait a minute. Don't go dissing someone in LS! Most importantly, don't allow that self-defeatist talk to run your life. You deserved this promotion. Four other people verified this with their advice to file a grievance. You don't deserve to have been treated this way. There's no doubt that mommies are discriminated against in the workforce because the workforce assumes people have wives to look after children. That's the way the whole thing was set up, and we haven't figured out how to make the switch well. Do you have to miss work because they're sick? Do they feel they can't depend on you as a result of missed days? Then you're just not in a family-friendly environment and you may need to look for another place that is, one that will appreciate what they have in you. But if you don't appreciate you and stand up for yourself, it won't matter where you are. Leaving isn't admitting defeat; it's going on to get what you deserve in a place where your gifts will be fully utilized for the good of all. You're right: I need some new skills in negotiation and expectations. If I expect to be promoted .....somehow I need to get others on the same mindset... May you learn not only to toot your own horn but to blow it triumphantly. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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