lost job to "an older woman" - what do you guys think of this

[pathfinder5465]

i was interviewed for a high caliber excutive secretary type of position in a civic/public agency. I have 20 years of experience in the workforce and have carried many executive positions and have a pretty qualified skill set. the position was what was called an "interim" one which is basically a temporary one (but for In-House temps). They interviewed two people. I was the first. the older woman was second.

 

i am not a sore loser about not getting the job. i think the thing that has been bothering me is that i always seem to make it as the second candidate and then ultimately everytime someone is hired they are older. this seems to happen repeatedly. i am not THAT young. i am 37 years old. i look about mid-20s. i feel lke this has been a continual detriment in my career hunt.

 

back to the story-finally yesterday, when i was turned-down the interviewer's said to me that "i interviewed wonderfully, i had impressive qualifications and WAS their #1 choice however the woman they decided on was just older and seemed like she could get along better unsupervised."

 

i felt really frustrated at this. i thought to myself all night "my qualifications were good but my age wasn't a fit?" isn't that ageism???? this morning on the advice of a friend i called the interviewer back once more. i told her i just wanted "to clarify something for future reference" then i asked her how old they thought i was. she proceeded to explain to me it wasn't neccessarily the woman's age but the fact that she had raised eight kids and been an entrepreneur herself.

 

an entrepreneur i can understand, and my respect to all mothers 1 kid, or 10, but some how it seems unfair to hire someone based on the assumption that they will function better in a sitution because god granted them a different life than someone else.

 

anyway, i feel really unsettled about this and discouraged too.

[Lil Honey]

Originally posted by pathfinder5465

seemed like she could get along better unsupervised.[/i]"

 

the fact that she had raised eight kids and been an entrepreneur herself.

 

based on the assumption that they will function better in a sitution because god granted them a different life than someone else.

 

Pathfinder:

 

I can understand your frustration, but I think the above portions of your quote could hold some answers (IMHO).

 

Now, I'm not saying that you can't do these things or haven't done these things. I don't know you. I'm just tryng to think the same way the employer has . . .

 

"Get along better unsupervised" could mean that they feel she will be able to take control of any situation without having to ask for guidance. It could mean that they feel she is highly organized, prompt, assertive.

 

They mentioned her being a mom (of eight kids, no less). It doesn't have anything to do with God or her life being different necessarily. It might translate (to them) that she is able to manage time, finances, crisis, different personalities. I think the fact that she previously owned a business means the same thing . . . she basically has the experience to know what works and what doesn't.

[tattoomytoe]

if you are really SORE and BITTER you could claim discrimination, especially if they actually said it was the age that got her the job.

 

i was hired b/c of my age, among other things, and was even TOLD this by the HR head! i was shocked she would tell me such a thing! talk about Liability!

[pathfinder5465]

I see the point you've both made but something doesn't seem right. After this incident I googled "ageism in the workplace" and every single article that came up was geared toward ageism toward older people. even the law that covers "ageism" applies only to 40 year olds and up. in the meantime the 30 somethings are not covered when currently the majority of national employment levels are dominated by the over 40 year olds aka baby boomers.

 

honestly, it is not that i'm bitter but i am baffled and i am discouraged. i feel like everywhere i turn there are no open doors because the opportunitys are being held for those that in a few years will be exiting the workforce to retire.

 

i have been stuck as an hourly worker the last 7 years of my life as soon as i entered the shcool system in which i seek a job. no benefits, no stability and no recognition for my hardwork and most of all limited opportunity to grow and utilize the very modern skills i can bring to the team. most of the people hired have less advanced skills but more seniority or more years on the earth.

 

i dunno. i do see everyone's point. i just feel like the opportunity to advance is being blocked. i feel invalidated and am starting to feel incredibly inadequate and i guess that's the problem.

 

thanks for your input folks.

[Lil Honey]

Pathfinder:

 

I've rearranged your paragraphs to make what I see a bit more clear, since my attempts to explain what I mean don't always go so well. LOL

 

Originally posted by pathfinder5465 and i guess that's the problem.

That could very well be. Look at what you said.

 

honestly, it is not that i'm bitter but i am baffled and i am discouraged. i feel like everywhere i turn there are no open doors because the opportunitys are being held for those that in a few years will be exiting the workforce to retire.

 

i have been stuck as an hourly worker the last 7 years of my life as soon as i entered the shcool system in which i seek a job. no benefits, no stability and no recognition for my hardwork and most of all limited opportunity to grow

 

i just feel like the opportunity to advance is being blocked. i feel invalidated and am starting to feel incredibly inadequate

 

Is the potential employer picking up on this negative feeling?

 

and utilize the very modern skills i can bring to the team. most of the people hired have less advanced skills but more seniority or more years on the earth.

 

Or this positive one?

 

Think about how you present yourself with your body language and choice of words. I'm not saying that this is where the "problem" lies. It's just a thought . . .

[Elmo]

Federal age discrimination laws only apply to those over 40.

 

I have a guess about the situation you described...but it is only a guess, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

In large companies that I have worked for, I've observed that the "exec secy" role is kind of a "mother" role. No, I'm not being sexist...just an observation.

 

I worked at a huge media/film company in LA for 5 years....the exec. assistants to the very top eschelon people were over forty, dressed very conservatively, acted with the utmost discretion, never chit chatted with other "assistants".

 

My guess is that you come across as too "young" because...well, you come across as too young! It is probably the way you dress, that you smile too much, seem to open and friendly. This is NOT what this kind of position calls for, frankly.

 

Just my 2 cents....could be wrong. But, if I am right about your demeanor, way of dress, personality....this isn't really the job for you anyway.

 

Have you tried a different career path....maybe sales? Just an idea.

[SixthSt.Girl]

I haven't really noticed "reverse ageism" much, though a similar incident happened at my previous workplace, a jewelry store. The manager and I exited at around the same time, and we witnessed some of the interviewing for her position. I was surprised that the owner chose a 53-year-old woman for the job. I think the primary reason he chose her is because of all her past years in jewelry, though most recently, she was a secretary. I don't want to sound discriminatory, but I don't think he realizes how physically demanding the job can be. This woman is 53 and is used to a desk job. I was just a saleswoman, but over four days in a row, and I was worn out - and I'm 23. It's a lot of standing in one place and we tend to get busy in spurts, which can be a shock when you sometimes sit for hours at a time with no customers. The store is so small that the manager has to do a lot of the selling and customer relations, not just directing and making decisions. The former manager was 38, and a big part of why she left is because of fatigue and stress. I don't think that's directly related to age, but I just can't see a 53-year-old in that kind of role.

 

I was recently hired as a management trainee for a drugstore, and they specifically targeted recent college graduates w/o a lot of experience so they could more or less mold them to fit the role. They liked that I wasn't opposed to re-locating - I mentioned I was single and wanted to move and experience new places because nothing was holding me to my hometown. I also have to work long hours on my feet, be able to lift and do any of the positions in the store, and drive almost an hour to work. I don't think many people can make that kind of sacrifice - my age definitely works in my favor, but even I am semi-tired out after just a couple days. So, I think ageism definitely works both ways.

 

I worked for a state business in college, and it seems like the main qualifications for a secretary were blonde, pretty, and willing to put out. Most of the lower-level secretaries were younger, but the secretaries to the administrators were 40+. Those few were the only ones that actually were competent and got anything accomplished. Of course, being a state business, only about 10% of all employees actually did a full day's worth of work.

[pathfinder5465]

it's really great to hear the input. still a bit frustrating to accept but very well-taken. i have been thinking about it and the thing is I AM almost 40. I just tend to come off 10 years younger and well let's be honest, i like that. outside of the workplace, who wouldn't. And just for the record, I do not really go out of my way to do that. it's just that i am energetic, and dedicated to living a healthy lifestyle and evidently it pays off to a small degree.

 

in regards to professional matters, i go out of my way to be as professional and respectable as possible. in fact at interviews I am dressed professional, speak in an articulate manner(though you can't always tell by my message board typos ), educated, experienced. but I'm blessed with looking young and I continue to seize each day instead of get bogged down. like i had said, i am 37. and i definately have the qualifications of a mature person. that's the part that is disheartening because it's just assumed a woman cannot be experienced yet vivacious. had the woman beat me out because she had a master's degree or because of another professional trait i would not have been so affected. as it stands though, i have a university education and chose to postpone family for my career and the fact that she dedicated most of her life to family with no education made her qualified for a top level administrative position....

 

so anyway the other big twist of fate is I GOT THE JOB AFTERALL!!!!!! but only through default. The other lady thought about it over the weekend and declined the position. YOU CAN BET I AM GOING TO DO MY BEST TO EXCEL IN THIS POSITION AND MAKE THEM EAT THEIR DAMN STEREOTYPES. HAH!!!!

 

 

 

the responses so far have been so interesting I hope to see them continue coming. in the meantime thanks to everyone and their points of views and wish me luck folks!