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Finding out god is a monster


Spirituality & Religious Beliefs Contemplate your place and purpose in the universe.

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Old 24th August 2017, 5:48 AM   #16
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Many Bibilical authors grapple with the questions you are touching on: Why do bad things happen to good people? Why doesn't God step in? Does God orchestrate all of this, and, if so, doesn't that mean God orchestrates really awful things? I'd encourage you to read Job and Ecclesiastes. I'd also encourage you to read C. S. Lewis' "The Problem of Pain."
Thanks for the book recommendations will give these a look.
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Old 25th August 2017, 2:19 PM   #17
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I feel bad for posting this now - was in a bad place when I did. Thanks all for the responses.
I feel bad for posting this now -- God forgives you You can forgive yourself and redirect the energy from that anger to a more positive and productive use of that energy.
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Old 26th August 2017, 5:22 AM   #18
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I feel bad for posting this now - was in a bad place when I did. Thanks all for the responses.
Are you kidding me?!? I yell at God all the time. He doesn't mind. The important thing is, we're talking.
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Old 28th August 2017, 9:56 PM   #19
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Um, you are responsible for your own problems, not God. Quit blaming God and just do the best you can.
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Old 30th August 2017, 3:05 AM   #20
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Dude... how do you now "know" that god is real? Seeking feedback on a forum full of predominantly Americans, you're only going to get responses based on the Christian interpretation. The Christian's god isn't any more real than the Muslims, the Jews or even Buddha is. What made you an atheist to start with? The implausibility of the existence of a god? There's no more reason to believe in a god now, than any other time previously. Care to elaborate further on your anecdotal scenario which changed your view to there actually being a god in existence?

If I didn't know any better, I'd say you're trolling. Everything you've said is the kind of stuff I have admitted to saying I'd do if in a hypothetical scenario there were actually a god. But do you know what? Despite all the rubbish people have rammed down their throats about how god loves us, how god works in mysterious ways etc... no one knows if god actually exists. I am an atheist because I detest religions and its absoluteness and closed mindedness. I'm open to anything being a possibility, but not "god". I wouldn't even call myself agnostic, as even if there is a divine creator, there's no way that it would be anything like the Abrahamic gods of any monotheistic religion.

Don't hate something that you have no ability to know even exists. Accept that we all get handed cards, some better than others. Life is not fair, it's not shpposed to be fair. That's just tough s#!t. It is what it is and we have to make the best with what we were given. I only blame myself for the decisions I've made to get myself into a position I don't like. And I hold onoy myself responsible for digging my self out of said situation. Start looking more at yourself and how you can improve your own life. Stop looking for someone else to blame. If we all start believing in ourselves instead of some deity, the world WOULD be a better place.
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Old 30th August 2017, 7:57 AM   #21
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For most of my life I have been an atheist. Never believed in god. Religion in general just seemed kind of crazy to me. I tried to be a good person but that came from my parents raising me to respect others and try to treat others how I wanted to be treated. Not from any religious superstition. When I hit my 30's its like my entire life got just nuclear bombed. Divorce followed by going through a series of other truly terrible times which affected my family and people close to me. I guess out of desperation from the seeming catalogue of disasters and grief I started reaching for something more. I don't want to go into the details but I ended up having a pretty intense experience that left me in no doubt there is actually some form of god or whatever the hell you wanna call it.
Nuclear bombed? Really? We all have problems. Some people still alive actually got nuclear bombed. Everything they knew and everybody they've ever talked to gone in matters of seconds. You might be dramatizing your experiences a bit. I am sorry to hear about your problems, but you are definitely not the most deplorable person on this planet right now. Very likely nobody on this forum is, by any objective standards.

Now, I'd like to know what can turn an atheist into a theist. It sounds like you were a cultural atheist as opposed to an intellectual atheist. I'm not talking about intellectuals, I'm talking about the basis for a world view, nurture/culture/social versus introspection and analysis. I believe you can only discard of the foundations of atheism if you suspend critical thinking and logic. If you do that truly not even god can help you.

Unsurprisingly if you do believe and are perceptive to the real world experience, i.e. the pointless and often cause-less suffering, you must come to the conclusion that god is either evil, or powerless. And an evil god is really a devil. The old problem of evil. I don't see that super natural actor that tries to make this universe as horrible as possible. Let's not try to explain suffering with evil where chaos, stupidity and greed will perfectly do the job. So I live my life neither in fear of a god-father who cares who I sleep with and tells me what bits of my children's bodies to cut off, nor do I despair because I "know" there's this sociopathic mastermind torturing his toy-universe.

I hope you will soon do better in your life, and if you were my neighbor I'd offer any help I could. I hope you can disentangle yourself from this idea that there's a puppet master, who relieves your fellow man and yourself from responsibility of how we live with one another and the rest of our world.

Good luck
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Old 8th September 2017, 6:01 PM   #22
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For most of my life I have been an atheist. Never believed in god. Religion in general just seemed kind of crazy to me. I tried to be a good person but that came from my parents raising me to respect others and try to treat others how I wanted to be treated. Not from any religious superstition.
Hi, Jimmy-J.
The 'commandment' or 'admonishment' or 'teaching' to treat others as you yourself want to be treated is indeed one given by Jesus when he attained Christ Consciousness, so I'm not sure if people would consider that as atheisim, gnosticism, agnosticism or something else. In any case, the labels and judgments of 'men' (carnal-mortal humanity) are completely irrelevant and unimportant.

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I don't want to go into the details but I ended up having a pretty intense experience that left me in no doubt there is actually some form of god or whatever the hell you wanna call it.
Again, it does not matter how we want to label it. Labels and appearances 'amongst man' mean nothing. Your experience is valid because you experienced it; YOU can testify and witness to it. Similarly Jesus could witness and testify to truth that the scribes, Pharisees and even his own disciples did not yet have the consciousness to see (they were as spiritually blind then as are still almost all of us at this point in the evolution of consciousness of humanity on this planet). Don't let any other person/guru/leader/teacher fool you into thinking that you are 'less spiritual' or 'more atheist' than they, in their spiritual ignorance, deem themselves to be.

Are you okay with calling yourself 'a seeker of truth' - scientific truth and spiritual truth?

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But different to what most seem to get from belief or knowledge there is a god, this hasn't served to comfort me in any way shape or form. ... now I can't help but see God as some kind of awful monster. I know now without a shadow of a doubt he is real and its worse for me then the alternative.
I get your perspective. But then you also say, "but any karma I have received has so outweighed anything bad I have done its incomprehensible. I made mistakes in my life but nothing to warrant what I have gone through."

Given that you seem to accept the Cosmic-Universal Law of Karma, I have to assume that you also accept the 'notion' of reincarnation (which is referred to in both the Old and the New Testaments, so even the most ardent and devout Christians ought not be ignoring it as a spiritual reality). So then I would have to ask if you have taken the time and made the effort to understand the mistakes you have made in previous lifetimes?

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I have no respect or understanding for a god who operates the way he does.
Well, sure - who would? But. Are you okay with saying that you have no respect or understanding for a god who operates the way that you currently think God does?
Because. What if God - the real, true, ever-transcending God our Creator is not responsible for or desiring of any of your suffering or my suffering or the suffering that we can clearly see is happening on planet Earth, not only through embodied Lifestreams but also in the nature and animal kingdoms? Not a for-sure but just a 'what if'?

Obviously a god that allows any of this garbage to happen is not worthy of anything positive, useful or worthwhile --- but if you go inside (to where Jesus directed us to go to find the kingdom of Heaven), then do you really think or feel or believe that the God that you find there, within your own Self, condones or desires or takes any pleasure in what you and I and billions of the rest of us are perceiving and experiencing as reality on this planet right now? Or is it more likely that there are some mistakes and flaws and misunderstandings going on that might be related to our own misuse of our free will and our other creative tools, abilities and power?
Not a for-sure but just a 'what if'?
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Old 21st September 2017, 7:46 AM   #23
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I had a conversation recently with someone who had the "monster" mentality about God. They were having "fear" about the prediction regarding September 23. They wanted to know how we can believe in a wrathful, vengeful God who wants to destroy the earth and leave some people behind for a while to suffer through the destruction of the world as we know it.

I told them it might help if they try to think of the God-Man relationship more like a parent-child relationship. Abba is another word for God and it's equivalent to Dad, a let's say, softer reference for Father.

If a Dad buys his child an expensive toy and the child isn't treating it with respect, he will take it away from the child and, maybe give it back later when the kid seems to have learned the lesson. And, he'll do that before the kid completely destroys it. And, if its already destroyed, he's not going to buy a new one very readily at least. In our case, we have really messed up the planet he gave us and actually on the verge of destroying it, BUT DAD has actually promised to give us a new one!

This friend said, well, why do we all have to pay for our brother breaking his toy. That is kinda about the fact that all the kids probably have a history of not respecting what they have at some point or another, so the message needs to be delivered to them all.

Dad is going to give us a new "toy" for sure. And, yeah, some of us will have to suffer the consequences for a while but have a second chance if we show we really got the message during that time. It's real test of what's in our hearts if we have behaving "better" in times of trouble, that's for sure. Like the people who help others during storms and earthquakes, even though they've lost a lot too, instead of looting and taking advantage of people and being selfish, etc.

So, if some of us are still here suffering the consequences but demonstrating we actually understand, we may get to enjoy the new toy too . . .
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Old 23rd September 2017, 3:56 PM   #24
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I made mistakes in my life but nothing to warrant what I have gone through. I have no respect or understanding for a god who operates the way he does.
Sounds like you think that you have gone through bad things in life more than any other person. Have you ever read the true story of how the Christian Amish people reacted to the crazed killer that went into the elementary school and killed a bunch of their little children?

Have you gone through tougher times than the Amish? Yea I know the Amish seem weird but that is not the point; the point is they went through hell and did not react like you are acting now. What is the difference? Below is some links and some quotes if you are interested:

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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-the-happening

When Roberts began tying the girls up and pulled down the window shades, Esh Sr said, children began weeping with fear. “The boys were terrified, too,”

It is believed Roberts planned to sexually molest the girls during a lengthy siege. He told them, survivors said, that he was angry at God because his baby daughter had died despite his prayers. He also said he had molested two young female relatives when a teen, a claim that was never proven. When the troopers came, he fired at each of the 10 girls, then shot himself dead


Amish Forgive School Shooter, Struggle with Grief : NPR
Last month, it was announced that the Amish community had donated money to the killer's widow and her three young children.
It was one more gesture of forgiveness, gestures that began soon after the shooting.

Donald Kraybill, is a sociologist at nearby Elizabethtown College and co-author of Amish Grace: How Forgiveness Transcended Tragedy.

"I think the most powerful demonstration of the depth of Amish forgiveness was when members of the Amish community went to the killer's burial service at the cemetery," Kraybill says. "Several families, Amish families who had buried their own daughters just the day before were in attendance and they hugged the widow, and hugged other members of the killer's family."



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I actually have developed a deep hatred and anger towards god.
Well, believe it or not Jimmy you have improved from a complete apathetic unbeliever to a believer with hatred. The opposite of love is not hate but apathy.
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Old 1st October 2017, 5:14 PM   #25
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Hmmmm... its a tough question you propose. You want free will, or you want God to control you and everything around you? Or you want just the right amount of choice and for him to pick you up when you fall and limit bad things?

I had bad things - nasty things happen to me - I was mad at God for a long time. But after I while I just figured he was not micro managing the world, and more or less I was on my own and ***** just happens.

My pastor said once in a sermon - that we used to have a paradise (Eden) and everything was perfect and provided. We were asked to just obey and follow a few (one) simple rule given to us. Nah - we wanted free will and choice and to see for ourselves - so we got kicked out of the garden in to the big random world to go figure it all out and was told "its tough out there kids - good luck - love you !"
I don't know what faith your pastor belongs, but his teachings IS NOT of traditional Christian teachings. God did not expel humanity to be left to themselves. In fact, the entire bible is about how God is very much involved.

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OP, your post puzzles me and this is why-

Many people claim to be 'Atheist', although blame God/Christianity for everything under the sun... then in the same breath support religion/other religions/faiths.

It makes no sense to me, as if one is truly an atheist why do they consider 'God' or gods at all?

If they really believe that God/gods do not exist then why do these non entities bother them so much, why the hate?

Why hate something that does not exist? Is it because someone else believes, so hate on them because they believe in a particular way?

Bottom line, one cannot hate something that does not exist (in their mind), either it really does exist, or hypocrisy/denial is taking place.
The OP WAS an atheist. He is now struggling b/c he believes in a god, but that god, for him, is inadequate. I have known many atheists and none of them claimed to believe in a god or any deity.

I am where the OP is, non-believer became a believer. Soon realized that whomever this God is, he is way too hands-off! I consider myself a deist.

It's easy to blame God, but the most influential element to man's faith are those who claim to believe. Believers, more than anyone else, directly affect our perceptions and belief system. I believe in good and evil and there are a lot of evil people who claim to be believers. Our world, for much of the social issues especially, are a result of false believers.

Someone said that the opposite of love is not hate, rather it is apathy. I disagree. Apathy, in this context, is sometimes explained, however unfortunate. But hate is an active defiance, contradiction to love. People who hate, devil or not, are active participants to the destruction of decency.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 3:17 PM   #26
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Believers, more than anyone else, directly affect our perceptions and belief system.
If only believers could understand the truth of this. I heard a preacher once say "no man has seen God....they see US and decide what to think of God."

Thing is, we humans are creatures of extremes. You've got the extreme Pharisee and anger group over here, who see sin under every doily, must point it out, stomp on it (and whichever people they think are committing it), and spread conviction and condemnation wherever they go. Then you have the "God-hippies." They think that feeding the 5,000 while toking a doobie and hanging with sinners was all there was to Jesus. Any whiff of a moral absolute is totally killing my vibe with your judgment, man.

A real reading of the Bible (which is the book of the Christian faith, so doesn't make much sense for someone to say they believe and then dismiss it) makes it clear that God is balanced. He's warm and loving and fuzzy, but he also expects holiness and obedience.

And we don;t always understand him because he is bigger than us. And when push comes to shove, that's the issue....we don't want a god who is bigger than us because, in the end, WE want to be our own definition of god.
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