autumnnight Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I have to confess something I am not proud of. The loving Christian is supposed to be grieved over a lack of faith, be compassionate, be long-suffering, turn the other cheek, pray for your enemies, bless those who curse you. Most of the time I can do this. But I confess with shame that there are moments when I long for the day when this will happen: "Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." I know I shouldn't feel this way, but sometimes after one too many snide remarks, just a bit more condescension than I can stand, after a little too much time ruminating on people who ask questions they don't really want to know the answer to, but rather just want to deride, something in me wants to say, "That's fine. We'll all just sit back and wait." I shouldn't feel that way. The ramifications of that should break my heart, not give me any sort of momentary satisfaction. It completely contradicts the love of Christ. But I confess. sometimes I feel it. Am I the only one? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
endlessabyss Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I never turn a cheek. If someone throws something at me I'll throw it right back. Now, most of the time, I just try to stay away from discussions dealing with people's worldviews, because it's never a civil discussion, just slanders and insults being hurled. Link to post Share on other sites
Author autumnnight Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 I am pretty much of the mind that I life my life the best I can, live by my faith without expecting everyone else is going to do the same. I try to see people as people who have value whether I agree or disagree with them. Even if I personally think their view is wacky, I assume that if it is important to them it is not my job to dance on their grave with glee, so to speak. I do not expect an atheist or agnostic to agree with me, and I assume they don't get bent out of shape if I don't agree with them. So when someone who considers themselves superior to me acts in a kindergarten bully/arsehat kind of manner, especially in response to an attempt by me to be respectful, after awhile I confess I just kinda think "okay, my hands are washed, come see me in about 100 years and let's compare notes." It only lasts a split second, but it's there, and it makes me feel really mean. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I can't really fault them for challenging my beliefs. I challenge my own every day. Yes their approach irritates me sometimes. But my irritation doesn't last long, because a) I realize I'm doing exactly the same thing they are, and b) I have no doubt - NO DOUBT - that I have executed equally irritating approaches to others about various subjects. And it's important to me to hope that we all keep asking questions, never stop searching for the answers, no matter what. Keep turning it over & around & taking it out for a spin & fine-tooth-combing it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
todreaminblue Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Hey autumn, i think if anyone found it easy to turn the other cheek or to not feel angry then no test of faith can happen.....it wouldnt mean much if you didnt Feel something it wouldnt mean much to you at all..... I know that when i turn the other cheek.......i feel pathetic.....and frustrated..and i feel anxious if i dont defend god and hsi existence.....i have to ...cant help it.......i get anxious when i am knowing what they are doing or saying to me is wrong.....and i say to myself when it is over.....next time i am not copping a beating.......stuff this turn the other cheek thing i am going to ruin them because i know i can......i can choose to do that....... then when it comes time for me to make that choice...... I choose not to ruin them......either physically or intellectually....because i think it scars me more to hurt someone than it scars me to be hurt...i cant stand guilt or knowing i have done wrong by someone...it does scar me more........i have always believed that.....and i believe that is why ....the fire in my belly is still alight...still passionate...still burning....i will not let them put it out by my retaliating....and i believe it would do just that...put out what i truly beleive in...which is peace ... if it comes to fighting for my life or those i care about that is different or being told that i can express my love for god or say he exists....that is also different.........most everything else is inconsequential.....if you look at the big picture.....but yeah i slip .....and i repent.....or i fantasize about tying people to ceiling fans and hitting top speed....that puts a smile on my face........i would however never carry through with that...or i havent yet i will update you if i do.......having thoughts and acting on thoughts are two different entities......we all have thoughts...........deb 2 Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Don't be too hard on yourself, OP. I think most of humanity has experienced most forms of sin at one time or another. Even if we're not all exactly struggling with the same problem, we've been there. And while we may be tested in a certain area, I think it can help to remember the positives that have happened in other areas. It can be somewhat relieving to remember the ways God has helped us overcome other struggles of the past. So, while "loving your enemy/love your neighbor as yourself" is something God is helping you grow in right now, I'm sure there are many other areas in which you've already been refined and changed more into God's ultimate-awesome-version of autumnnight. Well, that's the way it seems to work for me, at least. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Arieswoman Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Autunmnight, Yes, Christians are exhorted to be merciful and compassionate, but not to waste our time on those that don't want to listen ;- https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+10:14 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I shouldn't feel that way. The ramifications of that should break my heart, not give me any sort of momentary satisfaction. It completely contradicts the love of Christ. But I confess. sometimes I feel it. Am I the only one? I think it's probably a human tendency most people with a sense of empathy/morality would have - whether they practice a faith or not. People want to be proved right....and sometimes that desire to be right, or to prove another person wrong can be a corrupting force. People being happy to see another person hung, drawn and quartered just so long as they feel that they've been vindicated or proved right in some belief they hold. Abusers do terrible things to their victims, they rationalise it in victim blaming terms - and then do even worse things to the victim in order to prove to themselves that their abusive behaviour is right/justified. There are times somebody has wronged me, and I've thought "hope you get yours"...but then sometimes something bad has then happened, and I've felt fairly terrible for them. Fantasising about something bad happening to a person is a sort of coping mechanism, but it's not a very healthy one. I think if you go the step further and imagine the realistic aftermath of that bad event and how you would realistically feel about it then that's generally going to be enough to chase the desire for something bad to happen (to the other person) away. Especially when it's over something like a disagreement over philosophical or religious beliefs (or lack thereof) - where the other person's personal belief is not actually causing any harm to anybody. Link to post Share on other sites
Robert Z Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) Why do these conversations come up in the first place. I think you need to understand that we've all heard it all before. Why do Christians think they have secret knowledge? This is where I get an attitude about evangelicalism. It assumes that the converted is superior to the non convert, and it shows! Even worse, that absolute belief that creates the sense of superiority is based on faith, which amounts to nothing but voices in your head and feelings. You said it yourself. Just wait! You have secret knowledge, right? Maybe your problem is in the mirror. "Just wait" is just another way of saying, I'm hope I'm right. You want your faith vindicated. And you want to see those who don't agree suffer. Edited February 11, 2015 by Robert Z 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author autumnnight Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 Why do these conversations come up in the first place. I think you need to understand that we've all heard it all before. Why do Christians think they have secret knowledge? This is where I get an attitude about evangelicalism. It assumes that the converted is superior to the non convert, and it shows! Even worse, that absolute belief that creates the sense of superiority is based on faith, which amounts to nothing but voices in your head and feelings. You said it yourself. Just wait! You have secret knowledge, right? Maybe your problem is in the mirror. "Just wait" is just another way of saying, I'm hope I'm right. You want your faith vindicated. And you want to see those who don't agree suffer. Feel better now? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I think it's probably a human tendency most people with a sense of empathy/morality would have - whether they practice a faith or not. This didn't really read right in the context. I meant most people with a sense of empathy/morality would feel guilt about wishing ill on somebody. It doesn't mean that in a moment of anger they're not going to. And that includes people of a religious faith. If you own it, you can likely manage it. The problems set in when instead of facing up to and owning their personal feelings of wrath towards others, people of faith search for reasons within their faith to justify and act on that wrath. Link to post Share on other sites
youngskywalker Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) There was a time when I felt the same way. Then I realized it was because there is no true justice or fairness when it comes to god. If god cannot cause fairness in this life then why should I expect it in the promised one to come? I guess that would be one of those questions that you say I don't really want to hear the answer to lol Edited February 11, 2015 by youngskywalker Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) I have to confess something I am not proud of. The loving Christian is supposed to be grieved over a lack of faith, be compassionate, be long-suffering, turn the other cheek, pray for your enemies, bless those who curse you. Most of the time I can do this. But I confess with shame that there are moments when I long for the day when this will happen: "Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." I know I shouldn't feel this way, but sometimes after one too many snide remarks, just a bit more condescension than I can stand, after a little too much time ruminating on people who ask questions they don't really want to know the answer to, but rather just want to deride, something in me wants to say, "That's fine. We'll all just sit back and wait." I shouldn't feel that way. The ramifications of that should break my heart, not give me any sort of momentary satisfaction. It completely contradicts the love of Christ. But I confess. sometimes I feel it. Am I the only one? Hi Autumn, What you are describing is pretty common. For example, here is a Psalm composed by Asaph. Asaph was a gifted poet and musician. In Psalm 73 Asaph describes how it seems that the wicked can do anything they want, and reap all types of rewards. Meanwhile, Asaph noticed those that strive to live a righteous life seem to receive nothing for it. In the next stanza, God shows Asaph the harvest of a life of sin... A psalm of Asaph. For I envied the arrogant when I saw the prosperity of the wicked. They have no struggles; their bodies are healthy and strong. They are free from common human burdens; they are not plagued by human ills. Therefore pride is their necklace...They scoff, and speak with malice; They say, “How would God know? Does the Most High know anything?” Surely in vain I have kept my heart pureand have washed my hands in innocence. When I tried to understand all this, it troubled me deeply till I entered the sanctuary of God; then I understood their final destiny. Here is the full clip, which I recommend Playing Psalms 73 by Alexander Scourby - picosong What we are basically talking about here is the sin of pride. Pride is a sin that every person has to put into check on a daily basis....actually more like several times a day. Each day we have to ask God to reveal to us if there is any pride within our hearts. Pride is the sin that caused satan to fall, and it is part of our fallen nature to revert back to a prideful mentality. It is natural for us to do. The fact you actually know this about yourself (and all of us are guilty of pride!) is a sign of salvation. Salvation is not about us being perfect, but about acknowledging to God we are not perfect. We are humbling ourselves to God. It is the opposite of pride; humility. A lot of times we believe our opinions are the best, we are better than others, that we can say what we want and too bad how it injures another (a common form of pride especially on internet mediums). Edited February 13, 2015 by TheFinalWord 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author autumnnight Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 I think there is definitely an element of pride. I think even more, though, for me, is an understanding of when I am allowing my emotions to start leading. When it becomes about the flesh, for lack of a better word. See, I get into the mindset, without realizing it, that somehow God "needs" me to defend Him and make sure no one is making fun of Him....or something like that? It is hard to explain. But it is really silly. That is like saying Beethoven needs me to convince people he knows how to read music. I don't need to do that. All they have to do is listen to the 9th Symphony. lol OK, that is a bad analogy, but basically when I start worrying and getting fixated on "convincing," I am working out of my swim lane and above my pay grade Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Good points! Yes, we have to listen to the Spirit to determine if we are witnessing or arguing from pride. Often, we may only plant seeds, which seems to have no effect and can become frustrating. For example, I think back to a woman I would talk to that was a Christian at work. During this time, I hated God and would mock Christianity. This woman was really humble (had 4 kids, husband addicted to drugs and left her, had a really labor intensive job and tons of health problems), but she never complained, which intrigued me. When opportunity arose we would discuss religion. She never got upset or argued with me, but would give me answers to questions I had. She never directly converted me, but the small seeds she planted did influence me (almost 10 years later her words still resonated). Even though she had no earthly power, she had tremendous power of the Spirit. Often, our words may seem to fall on deaf ears. What we can do is plant/water seeds and pray God grows them. “So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.” Don't give up or stop witnessing 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author autumnnight Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 Good points! Yes, we have to listen to the Spirit to determine if we are witnessing or arguing from pride. Often, we may only plant seeds, which seems to have no effect and can become frustrating. For example, I think back to a woman I would talk to that was a Christian at work. During this time, I hated God and would mock Christianity. This woman was really humble (had 4 kids, husband addicted to drugs and left her, had a really labor intensive job and tons of health problems), but she never complained, which intrigued me. When opportunity arose we would discuss religion. She never got upset or argued with me, but would give me answers to questions I had. She never directly converted me, but the small seeds she planted did influence me (almost 10 years later her words still resonated). Even though she had no earthly power, she had tremendous power of the Spirit. Often, our words may seem to fall on deaf ears. What we can do is plant/water seeds and pray God grows them. “So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.” Don't give up or stop witnessing That's what I want. I don't want to be hard or jaded or assume an attack. I want to be loving and consistent without taking up offense. Link to post Share on other sites
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