How do I stay safe; Flirting vs "Harassment"?

[barbossa]

I am not discounting or denying harassment in any degree

 

1)

 

I really do not even know what harassment really is in terms of black and white context.

 

Is it verbal or physical advancements made to people who are attracted to you VS not attracted to you?

 

Only people who are not attracted to you calling out harassment?

 

2) Wlit Chamberlain ( Former NBA player) claims to have sex with 20,000 women. I am sure he did not waste hours and weeks courting the girls he slept with. I don't see allegations against him. Because the girls wanted to sleep with him

 

Ever been to an Eminem concert? He yells out Suk my **** and girls swoon for him and i am sure all the groupies fight to get the honor

 

I was once accused of harassment after asking a store employee what her halloween plans were after having asked her male co-worker the same thing

 

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/601317-i-just-given-harassment-talk

 

What is the line between being confident and flirting VS someone saying calling harassment? I would like to be safe

[d0nnivain]

When you hold power over somebody at work -- when you set their hours, when you control their rate of pay, when you give any performance feed back, it's best to avoid mixing business & pleasure. I would advise than any supervisor avoid dating subordinates.

 

 

Basics:

 

 

No touching

 

 

Avoid crude language (Eminem's directive for example)

 

 

Keep your clothes ON in professional settings

 

 

Be polite

 

 

Don't single anyone out & make them feel different or uncomfortable

 

 

When you asked a female co-worker about her plans you were making conversation. You were not harassing her.

 

 

The formal legal definition of actionable sexual harassment is unwelcome conduct which is severe or pervasive, resulting in a change in the terms and conditions of employment. If both people are enjoying the conversation or activity it's not harassment. A single comment, even a particularly crude one (say a wolf whistle or a va-va voom) is not severe in the way touching would be nor is it pervasive because it's one comment not an all the time thing. Yet if every day one gender has to endure repeated comments (gay bashing jokes or comments about women based on our parts) the recurring nature of such behavior makes it pervasive.

 

 

That last piece is something most non-lawyers' miss. If the alleged victim has not suffered a job change or loss, there is no suit. It doesn't mean your company won't take action against the harasser but it might not be an actionable claim.

 

Remember the celebrities you mentioned did not sleep with their employees

[stillafool]

Do not flirt with coworkers.

[smackie9]

My Gf was accused of sexual harassment by another female coworker when she told an off colour joke....it wasn't that bad.

 

It turns out this woman has placed the same type of complaint at other places of employment to get compensation. So you will run into these idiots that enjoy the drama of being a whistle blower.

 

So you are within your rights to simply ask a coworker what they were up to for the weekend or other wise. THAT is not sexual harassment. We all know what sexual harassment is. If you are so worried about it, take a few on line courses. Most companies offer this training. My company does, and there are like maybe 20 mins long.

[CryForNoOne]

What is the line between being confident and flirting VS someone saying calling harassment? I would like to be safe

 

If they have the hots for you or not. Then even If they do and you hookup, they can always accuse you later if things end badly. That's why you always need to ask yourself if that *** is worth losing your job for. In most cases no unless you hate your job anyway...

[GemmaUK]

When you hold power over somebody at work -- when you set their hours, when you control their rate of pay, when you give any performance feed back, it's best to avoid mixing business & pleasure. I would advise than any supervisor avoid dating subordinates.

 

I would just like to point out that it doesn't matter what level she Is or you are.

Harassment can come from anyone at any level and be directed towards anyone at any level.

Hierarchy is irrelevant.

 

Assuming you are talking along work/colleague relationships here - a few more basics to elaborate on Donnivain's:

 

Asking someone their weekend plans in and of itself is not harassment as a one off question.

However, if you have asked this or other personal questions several times previously to this same person it could have been the last straw for them.

 

Don't single someone out or continue to do so.

 

Don't be intrusive with work colleagues.

Let them offer up information and don't ask is the best way forward.

Plus don't over share info about yourself unless the person is an actual close friend.

 

You say you had a harassment talk - what did they tell you?

Edited November 21, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fix quote

[Gr8fuln2020]

We have allowed so much crap go over the centuries, decades that we seem to be at a loss as to what is appropriate and what is not appropriate behavior. Don't do anything that makes anyone uncomfortable and the working place potentially hostile. If you have personal feelings that are negative, take it out of the work place. Asking a co-worker out is not sexual harassment, but repeatedly asking when it is clear that it is not welcome is. Telling 'off-color' jokes may not be a big thing to you, but it may be to another. Especially those involving sex, race, religion, etc. Why even tell such jokes? Tell them to your friends, not in the office.

 

Your HR should have handbook(s) and videos that better define what sexual harassment is. I have learned over the years that it isn't very difficult to be safe. I find that some people simply have a tough time understanding boundaries really...or accepting them.

 

Frankly, I feel that staying away from co-workers is the best advice.

Edited November 21, 2017 by simpleNfit

[d0nnivain]

I would just like to point out that it doesn't matter what level she Is or you are.

Harassment can come from anyone at any level and be directed towards anyone at any level.

Hierarchy is irrelevant.

 

 

It depends. In the US are we talking about in a court or whether your employer may fire you? As a firing offense, hierarchy may not matter. In a court / lawsuit situation, unless the harasser had changed the terms and conditions of the person's employment there is no cause of action.

 

 

For example:

 

 

Bob & Mary work together. Every day Bob hits on Mary & asks her out. She repeatedly says no. After a few months she reports Bob to HR. HR tells Bob to stop but doesn't do anything else. Mary cannot win a lawsuit against the employer. She has endured pervasive unwelcome conduct but the terms & conditions of her employment have not changed. If the employer moves Mary's desk to a less desirable location to get her away from Bob, then she could sue but what would her damages be if her salary was still the same? If the company moved Bob, Mary could not sue. If the company fired Bob, Mary still can sue because immediately upon learning of the problem, the company took swift decisive action to protect Mary.

 

 

The employer may be within its rights to fire Bob for annoying Mary & thereby disrupting her production, which costs the company money.

 

 

All in all if you are pain in your boss's tail, the company will find a reason to let you go.

[Gr8fuln2020]

BTW, some companies have very specific policies involving dating co-workers. Be aware.

[stillafool]

I personally don't think it is a good idea to ask out your coworkers. If they don't want you it will make them feel awkward around you and if they are interested in dating you it's even worse because you don't know how this relationship will pan out and it may affect your job. It's just best to keep your dating life separate from work.

[carhill]

Sexual Harassment and You

[basil67]

I would classify harassment as "repeated, unwanted physical or verbal advances" When I say 'repeated' I mean more than once.

 

And to be safe, I wouldn't hit on anyone you work with.

[smackie9]

I have to say, there are different circumstances to what is harassment. I feel what should be added is just plain saying or doing things that are not appropriate at first shot.

 

I had a male coworker asked me "theoretically" as he put it, would I strip for a party if maybe if he asked me....

 

The problem is, no witnesses, his word against mine, case closed. It was noted in his file, but nothing ever came of it. But that was years ago. I'm sure things would be different today.

[carhill]

As those who would insult me right before landing that first fist used to say, it's just words, right?

 

I think 'fat faggot' was a favorite.... IDK, were they flirting?

[barbossa]

I would just like to point out that it doesn't matter what level she Is or you are.

Harassment can come from anyone at any level and be directed towards anyone at any level.

Hierarchy is irrelevant.

 

Assuming you are talking along work/colleague relationships here - a few more basics to elaborate on Donnivain's:

 

Asking someone their weekend plans in and of itself is not harassment as a one off question.

However, if you have asked this or other personal questions several times previously to this same person it could have been the last straw for them.

 

Don't single someone out or continue to do so.

 

Don't be intrusive with work colleagues.

Let them offer up information and don't ask is the best way forward.

Plus don't over share info about yourself unless the person is an actual close friend.

 

You say you had a harassment talk - what did they tell you?

 

A male manager I was friendly with pulled me aside and told me I had made a employee uncomfortable

He told me he was obligated to tell me

It didn't matter how I tried to defend myself

The damages were done

 

The incident made me fearful. Made me just want to be robotics to females I met

[alphamale]

what about all the powerful women who sexually harass men at work. I've seen it myself. No one is talking about that.

[basil67]

what about all the powerful women who sexually harass men at work. I've seen it myself. No one is talking about that.

 

Well START talking about it. Go write a blog and try to get it picked up by a major news source. The only reason that women are getting on top of this stuff is because we talk about it and raise awareness.

[GemmaUK]

A male manager I was friendly with pulled me aside and told me I had made a employee uncomfortable

He told me he was obligated to tell me

It didn't matter how I tried to defend myself

The damages were done

 

The incident made me fearful. Made me just want to be robotics to females I met

 

Sounds like she didn't make a complaint but rather mentioned it and mentioned her uncomfortableness around you.

 

What have been your previous interactions with this lady?

[S2B]

I am not discounting or denying harassment in any degree

 

1)

 

I really do not even know what harassment really is in terms of black and white context.

 

Is it verbal or physical advancements made to people who are attracted to you VS not attracted to you?

 

Only people who are not attracted to you calling out harassment?

 

2) Wlit Chamberlain ( Former NBA player) claims to have sex with 20,000 women. I am sure he did not waste hours and weeks courting the girls he slept with. I don't see allegations against him. Because the girls wanted to sleep with him

 

Ever been to an Eminem concert? He yells out Suk my **** and girls swoon for him and i am sure all the groupies fight to get the honor

 

I was once accused of harassment after asking a store employee what her halloween plans were after having asked her male co-worker the same thing

 

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/601317-i-just-given-harassment-talk

 

What is the line between being confident and flirting VS someone saying calling harassment? I would like to be safe

 

You go to work to do a job. Do that job and keep your mouth shut and your hands to yourself. That way there's no confusion on your part and no accusations from co workers.

[stillafool]

what about all the powerful women who sexually harass men at work. I've seen it myself. No one is talking about that.

 

Don't worry, it's only a matter of time before that issue blows sky high.

[SpinScratch]

You go to work to do a job. Do that job and keep your mouth shut and your hands to yourself. That way there's no confusion on your part and no accusations from co workers.

 

Idk. I know a lot of married couple that met at work. And a lot of them still work in the same place.

 

OP I dated a woman from work for a couple months earlier this year, but we dont actually work around each other. Just be friendly, you know when a woman likes you as something more than a just a co-worker (I hope). If you find yourselves seeking each other out at work, I dont think it would be harrassment to ask her to do something outside of work. But you never know nowadays. Just dont be even the slightest bit pushy about it, especially if you are a superior.