Should Black women give non-Black men a chance?

[trinity76]

Alright, this post is loosely related to one about why Black women are at the "bottom" of the dating pool. I think we have been very vocal about our dissatisfaction with our prospects among Black men, and this has translated somehow into us being "undatable" in general. There has been a rush to compare the situation with Asian men - while I think there are similarities, I also believe that the class element is very much in play among Blacks and not really a factor for Asian men.

 

I simply don't believe it and think that it has more to do with Black women refusing to date men who are not Black. Educated, professional Black women actually have their pick of mates if they aren't "holding out" for a Black man with similar status. In particular, if you are a Black woman, what do you think/what's been your experience?

 

People on the other thread confuse race with class and general attractiveness. If you're not a racist you will appreciate human beauty by its basic standards (i.e., height, hip-to-waist ratio, facial features, etc.) and find that what you really like may be a little broader than you are willing to admit. Yes, race/class/attractiveness intersect in interesting ways, but the standard of beauty in any society is far from stagnant.

 

Example: In Roman society, a big bumpy nose was beautiful, even on women. Now it's something to get rid of with plastic surgery.

 

I actually think the white woman/black man thing has more to do with pent up demand than anything else! I mean, they have been told to stay away from one another so long it makes sense really.

 

The media shapes what we consider beautiful and desirable. J-Lo mainstreams the Black women's silhouette and now Beverly Hills housewives are getting butt implants on top of their tans. Angelina Jolie is considered more beautiful than Charlize Theron. Now I notice that the latest accessory on TV/in the movies is a Black girlfriend...let's discuss!

[Pocky]

Women should date whomever they want based on any personal preference such as race, religion, gender, age, physical appearance, current car, annual income, number of children, number of previous wives, number of OWs, number of jail time served, ability to perform in bed, size, girth and ability to refrain from eating boogers, farting and watching porn.

[alphamale]

its all about the chemistry. if it exists between two people then none of the other sheeyot matters one iota.

[st8toftheheart]

I had a girl I was very attracted to that was black. She was beautiful but nothing ever transpired because relationships are hard enough as it is, you don't need the added pressue of society as well.

 

Its a shame.

[simon_uk]

Not even read your post but in response to the title of the thread, YES of Course!

[Naive]

Originally posted by trinity76

People on the other thread confuse race with class and general attractiveness. If you're not a racist you will appreciate human beauty by its basic standards (i.e., height, hip-to-waist ratio, facial features, etc.) and find that what you really like may be a little broader than you are willing to admit. Yes, race/class/attractiveness intersect in interesting ways, but the standard of beauty in any society is far from stagnant.

 

What is hip to waist ratio???

[trinity76]

st8 - I knew a white guy in high school who used to tease me relentlessy, and I did the same. A couple of years later that turned into longing looks, flirtatious touching and banter between the both of us, but we never crossed the line and dated because of race. Now he's dead, and sometimes I wonder what could have happened if we'd decided differently. It's just sad. Life is too short I say. Love who you love and don't take anything for granted.

 

Simon - There is a lot of biological research that says males prefer a hip to waist ratio of .70 in females..that is, span of hips compared to span of waist. Hmmm, might be waist to hip but you get what I'm saying hopefully. I'm sure a biologist could say this better, but basically, no matter what the actual size of the female is, if her ratio .7 men are more likely to find her figure attractive. It indicates fertility and general health. Both Marilyn Monroe and Halle Berry have a ratio at or about .7 even though they are different sizes.

[seahorse]

Originally posted by Pocky

Women should date whomever they want based on any personal preference such as race, religion, gender, age, physical appearance, current car, annual income, number of children, number of previous wives, number of OWs, number of jail time served, ability to perform in bed, size, girth and ability to refrain from eating boogers, farting and watching porn.

 

Agree.

[XNemesisX]

Why does this topic get brought up so much?

 

It's just chemistry...you either have it or you don't and it doesn't matter what the race is. I am white and I have dated black men, white men, and Latino men (no Asians though! - too short for me!)

 

But well...I will admit that I don't see as many black women with white men for some reason. I think I gave my opinion on this the last time this was brought up. I think a lot of people are intimidated by black women. They usually appear to be stronger willed and more assertive. Maybe some white guys are scared of that.

 

Originally posted by trinity76

Angelina Jolie is considered more beautiful than Charlize Theron.

 

I don't understand what you were meaning by this. They are both white

Not to mention Angelina Jolie may just be one of the most beautiful women in the world - - she's probably going to be considered MUCH more beautiful than LOTS of other women. Especially Charlize Theron (I don't find her that attractive, personally).

[XNemesisX]

Now I notice that the latest accessory on TV/in the movies is a Black girlfriend...let's discuss!

 

I have noticed this too though!

Maybe it's going to become more of the "in" thing to do now, just like it has been for black men to date white women in recent years....?

 

OH...and one of my best girl friends is black and she actually refuses to date a black man. (Going back to your original question). She says that she much prefers white men over black men because (at least the younger generations of black guys) appear to be too vulgar and players, and just overall rude, in her opinion. And she definitely has NO problem in the dating department. She gets asked out more than any of us! Black guys have gotten pretty mad at her though from time to time over her always dating white men only though....

[mental_traveller]

If you like non-black men, then go for them. If you don't, then don't. Pretty simple!

[trinity76]

XNemesisX,

 

Yes, they are both White, I just think it is funny that a lot of Hollywood sex sembols are considered beautiful because of their "African" features. When I saw Angelina Jolie the first time I thought she was of African descent. And we all know what people say about J-Lo LOL.

 

I don't know that this topic is brought up a lot, but I started the thread in response to the other one about Black women "losing out" on mates to other women and feeling rejected by White men. I have never met a Black woman who felt rejected by men who were not Black, quite the opposite actually. I was really surprised that some non-Black people had the perception that Black women felt this way because it is totally inaccurate.

 

I still like Black men but I abhor the whole "playa" persona. Any man can treat a women with disrepect seeing as how most cultures are misogynistic, so it's something you face as a woman all around.

 

But yep, it's pretty simple to me too. Be with the person who makes you happy and vice versa.

[The Outsider]

Trinity, as a black man I also notice a lot of black women who refuse to ever give black men a chance. You mention that educated black women are 'holding out' for black men. I see the opposite. Of the nice attractive educated black women I have seen the majority have no interest at all in black men dispite of and without knowing about our impressive credentials. As a very well educated black man in the North East, if you take the policy that I am only interested in other educated black women you're going to be lonely, which is ok for me. There are others like me. If you met me you would never believe I had any difficulty getting women, and I don't but they're not other educated black women. No black man would ever tell this to you to your face, myself included. We don't like to admit having any difficulty getting women but its true, I'm sure you know other black women who would never give a black man the time of day. While you are willing to criticize men, why don't we ever critize and talk about those women? Now a days, I see more of them than men.

[NYCmitch25]

Black women are beautiful despite the pop culture ideals of beauty shamefully still prevelent thoughout even the 80s and 90s. Today, things seem to be changing a bit in pop culture but still it's impossible to ignore the fact that standards have been set. The irony is that you profess Hollywood should learn to love the black woman and then you proceed to illustrate "them" in the same light with your J-Lo and Jolie comments. But then again, I think your point isn't completely lost because it raises the subjective topic of appearance and what is universally beautiful. However, these universal features of beauty transend all races since they are unaffected by features of environmental influences. for instance, short stocky people live in colder climates where taller long limbed people deal with heat better and are from warmer climates.... Interestingly Africans are the tallest *and* shortest people in the world. I suggest you think more openly about Africans as well, they all don't look the same.

 

Also, people (Americans in particular) know very little about races and the world for that matter, many of these stereo types feed off these types of ingnorant behaviors. I'm just as annoyed when blacks say whites can't get into hip-hop or dance when whites paint a similar picture (interestingly, in the 50s whites believed blacks couldn't play b-ball among other things). The fact is that we are all have been cut from the same perverbail African cloth a mere 60K years ago and all of us can be linked genetically (DNA) back to a single tribe... Just imagine that greater than 90% of our family history resides in Africa, how could we possibly be all that different?

[trinity76]

Outsider - That's amazing to me. You and you friends are like the spotted owl of BUPs. I lived in the NE for a few years and, although this is anecdotal, never met one Black woman who didn't have a preference for Black men. We're certainly prisoners of our own experiences most of the time, but I met and know countless Black women who, while seeing their educated, successful male counterparts with women of other races, won't go there themselves. They actively rebuff men who are not Black. LOL what I need to do is start a dating service...sounds like the right people are not getting connected! I know at least 10 who'd love to meet a man like you, most in the NE! Ha, if you live in NYC let me know. In any case, you sound like a balanced, optimistic individual despite any dating woes. One thing though: I didn't criticize any Black men and wouldn't without taking the same critical eye towards Black women (depending on the issue). We are often our own worst enemy when it comes to men of any phenotype.

 

NYCmitch - Appreciated your comments except for one: I didn't say Hollywood should profess to love anyone. What I said is that Western society often appropriates something that is beautiful and noteworthy from African culture, "whitewashes" it, and then presents it back the next new thing. It's ironic that "the booty" became popular because of J-Lo's success (who isn't White, but is a fairskinned Latina nonetheless). Her body is nothing out of the ordinary in certain populations, and pretty much every Black actress in Hollywood has a curvy body. A similar thing happened when Bo Derek wore cornrows.

[NYCmitch25]

NYCmitch - Appreciated your comments except for one: I didn't say Hollywood should profess to love anyone. What I said is that Western society often appropriates something that is beautiful and noteworthy from African culture, "whitewashes" it, and then presents it back the next new thing. It's ironic that "the booty" became popular because of J-Lo's success (who isn't White, but is a fairskinned Latina nonetheless). Her body is nothing out of the ordinary in certain populations, and pretty much every Black actress in Hollywood has a curvy body. A similar thing happened when Bo Derek wore cornrows.

 

I understand your intentions and it's completely true but I think you have to be very careful in how you state them because in your case you are unintentoinally furthering what you are seemingly aruging against. In other words you were stating that stereotypical comments made towards blacks (b/women) were only considered accepted after white culture had adopted it -- which means you are conceeding to these stereotypes in the first place! This is ironic because it's being said in a way to bring into light stereo types and pop culture and now minorities are excluded but accepting then in doing so..

 

I think if you picked a different example such as "corn rows" or "urban clothing" or even music for that matter it wouldn't have invalidated your point. I think music is a great example, most of the music in the world is heavily influenced by Africans to the point that people don't even know it's origins. Brazilian, Cuban, the Salsa movement, Fado, Flemenco (rumba), and American Pop to name a few. Elvis is a good symbol of this, extremely racist and ironically mimicing black music.

 

Modern society is just like this as you've mentioned, in my area "white culture" had it's laugh at urban/black culture such as Rap, "climbing all over each other" (saying hi), urban words thoughout the 1990s. However, now it's become widely accepted to have Rap-style lyrics in Pop/Alternative music, to do the "man hug", and say bling-bling. It's amazing that the black population is only 15% of the population in comparison to their cultural influences. I guess being copied is the humblest form of flatery..

 

 

ps. since when did having a big booty become a physical trait of Black women? Do you get it ?

[The Outsider]

Yes, NYC. How did you guess? Look for the well dressed black men walking the sidewalks, we're the only ones who don't get cabs. I thought about the dating service thing, really just having common places where young black singles to go and meet. They have them in the south but around here I don't know of any. I know of some guys who date 'other women', but many of them you women could take away so easily because you're what they really want. I keep hearing there are so many women out there, where is this hideout? I think what may also help, is if (assuming that this is not already the case) more black women approached black men. If you know of a decent man that is not already with a 'sister', introduce yourselves. I would be shocked if that happened. While I get many stares and glances, even those who rebuff us stare or glance in disgust at the black man that may be more of men than their white 'gods', so you never know whats behind those looks. In any respect, your comments definitely increase my optimism. Thanks.