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No logic to this whatsoever


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Old 23rd May 2015, 11:58 AM   #1
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No logic to this whatsoever

I've been on and off dating sites, and dating apps for the past few years. I've sent out literally hundreds of proper, mature, respectful messages to women trying to get a date. But my rate of return on those messages is easily below 5%. Most of the women view my profile after getting the message, but never reply.

After spending a good amount of time with no luck, one tends to get frustrated with the lack of success. This led me to start sending out rants, or venting about the dating process.

Low and behold, the success rate of replies jumped to 80% at the very least. And on top of that, not only do many of these women converse with me, a good amount of them actually end up wanting to meet me. Why?? I do not understand the logic of this? Why do women ignore a guy when he approaches them properly, but when he is bitching and moaning he gets attention?

If you ask just about any woman, she will tell you that its unattractive when a guy complains, especially about dating. If you ask just about any woman what kind of message she would like to receive on a dating site she will tell you a nice polite message, not too short, not too long, that states interest in her, and includes a topic or two that shows you read her profile and share interests.

So....then WHY am I getting the complete opposite reaction of what women say they want??

And please dont bow out, dodging this topic by saying "Well its online so thats why". These are real people online. They are the same people as you, the same people that have a job, have kids, and interact socially just like anyone that doesnt use online means.
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Old 23rd May 2015, 12:19 PM   #2
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I dont know but I think there are mainly two types of people who have success online dating.
1. People who are attractive
2. People who find someone they have a lot of in common with.

You may be more successful when complaining because, I think most people who try online dating have problems of some sort with dating - nobody around, too picky, cant get a date irl, too shy, no experience talking to people irl, so when you complain about something they can complain about too, it can connect two people. However if you are sending them negative rants about women, then they are just arguing with you or trying to prove you wrong, because you are provoking them, when provoked people tend to react. While this may get you a good response rate, I dont think it will give you success in getting dates.
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Old 23rd May 2015, 12:41 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Elif View Post
I dont know but I think there are mainly two types of people who have success online dating.
1. People who are attractive
2. People who find someone they have a lot of in common with.

You may be more successful when complaining because, I think most people who try online dating have problems of some sort with dating - nobody around, too picky, cant get a date irl, too shy, no experience talking to people irl, so when you complain about something they can complain about too, it can connect two people. However if you are sending them negative rants about women, then they are just arguing with you or trying to prove you wrong, because you are provoking them, when provoked people tend to react. While this may get you a good response rate, I dont think it will give you success in getting dates.

I am not utilizing this process as a tool to "trick" women into dating me. I've only made the choice to meet 1 woman that was a result of my rant type message. I do not intentionally send the message in hopes to get a date. I intentionally send the message out of frustration, and the need to vent. The offers to meet me come as an after effect.

I'd say 75% of the women that engage me with conversation are not doing so in a provoking manner. Very few argue. Many of the women actually apologize, probably because they either realize or already know that they probably hold their standards too high, or feel guilty about ignoring so many guys, i dont know.
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Old 23rd May 2015, 6:22 PM   #4
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I've never done online dating so I cannot speak from experience, but I thought I would offer my thoughts on this in case it helps.

I have heard a lot of horror stories from people I know who have used online dating and they have used various sites.

Most of the horror stories involved people who claimed to be one way in their profile and then, when met in person, were actually quite different. It seems that people tend to embellish their profiles in order to catch attention on these sites.

Keeping that in mind, perhaps the reason you are seeing a higher engagement rate when you rant (a/k/a drama) is that the women on these sites are attracted to drama...although I'm sure their profiles don't state that.

If it were me, and I was experiencing the same results you are experiencing, I would consider that perhaps I was trying to meet people in the wrong venue.

If you are the type of guy who is honest, polite, respectable, decent and genuine, then you want to meet women who have those same qualities. Maybe those women are not in online dating sites....or maybe just not the particular sites that you are using.

I may be completely wrong, but that was my first thought after reading your original post.
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Old 23rd May 2015, 6:46 PM   #5
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Hey, why look a gift horse in the mouth? You simply accidentally connected with them on a level they can understand. The jury is still out whether this means they will date you.
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Old 23rd May 2015, 10:45 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Male View Post
I am not utilizing this process as a tool to "trick" women into dating me. I've only made the choice to meet 1 woman that was a result of my rant type message. I do not intentionally send the message in hopes to get a date. I intentionally send the message out of frustration, and the need to vent. The offers to meet me come as an after effect.

I'd say 75% of the women that engage me with conversation are not doing so in a provoking manner. Very few argue. Many of the women actually apologize, probably because they either realize or already know that they probably hold their standards too high, or feel guilty about ignoring so many guys, i dont know.
No, you misread what I wrote. I have never even replied that anyone is "tricking" anyone either.

I proposed 2 different ideas. One of them was that complaining and venting about something both parties struggle with may give them something common to bond over (most people on dating sites struggle in dating for different reasons). It would be natural that in this case offers to meet come as an after effect.

The other idea that I proposed was that in case you are sending THEM provoking messages about dating and women then it is also natural thay you can get replies, but those wont get you dates, most likely. I proposed this because I do not know what exactly you write to the.

Your situation sounds pretty logical to me.
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Old 24th May 2015, 12:12 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Male View Post
After spending a good amount of time with no luck, one tends to get frustrated with the lack of success. This led me to start sending out rants, or venting about the dating process.

Low and behold, the success rate of replies jumped to 80% at the very least. And on top of that, not only do many of these women converse with me, a good amount of them actually end up wanting to meet me. Why?? I do not understand the logic of this? Why do women ignore a guy when he approaches them properly, but when he is bitching and moaning he gets attention?
I tried a similar approach when I was using OLD. Compliments and friendly, intelligent messages did not work so well. When I started sending messages criticizing the women, I got a ton more replies, and like you, I was able to turn some of them around to where they wanted to get together.

Quote:
So....then WHY am I getting the complete opposite reaction of what women say they want??
When have you known any woman to just come out and honestly say what they want? I don't listen to what women say they want, I pay attention to what they do. Much more useful.

Quote:
And please dont bow out, dodging this topic by saying "Well its online so thats why". These are real people online. They are the same people as you, the same people that have a job, have kids, and interact socially just like anyone that doesnt use online means.
Well, it is OLD, and despite what you want to hear, that does have something to do with it. OLD still attracts certain types of people over others, so your sample does not include the type of people who avoid OLD.
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Old 26th May 2015, 3:02 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Elif View Post

I proposed 2 different ideas. One of them was that complaining and venting about something both parties struggle with may give them something common to bond over (most people on dating sites struggle in dating for different reasons). It would be natural that in this case offers to meet come as an after effect.

The other idea that I proposed was that in case you are sending THEM provoking messages about dating and women then it is also natural thay you can get replies, but those wont get you dates, most likely. I proposed this because I do not know what exactly you write to the.

Your situation sounds pretty logical to me.
OK...so no matter what causes them to respond, I visually look the same either way. Why arent any women responding to the "nice email" version of me, but I do get chances at dates from the "negative email" version of me? My photos and profile remain constant. If I have X amount of women becoming interested in me due to a negative email, shouldnt I be getting roughly X amount of women interested in me from the nice emails? The only thing I can think is that my negative email is "snapping" those women out of the trance somehow, and awakening their mind/senses.

So that poses another question....why does it take a negative email, or something that radical to get a woman to notice me?
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Old 26th May 2015, 3:06 PM   #9
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OK...so no matter what causes them to respond, I visually look the same either way. Why arent any women responding to the "nice email" version of me, but I do get chances at dates from the "negative email" version of me? My photos and profile remain constant. If I have X amount of women becoming interested in me due to a negative email, shouldnt I be getting roughly X amount of women interested in me from the nice emails? The only thing I can think is that my negative email is "snapping" those women out of the trance somehow, and awakening their mind/senses.

So that poses another question....why does it take a negative email, or something that radical to get a woman to notice me?
There are serial-killers who are in death-row but they get love letters everyday, and many of the women are young and attractive. Who knows? There are mentally ill people everywhere. Some women are attracted to negative, depressed men.

Try to get with the women who've been talking to you? Or do you want a high-quality woman? In that case you have to be high-quality yourself. Work on yourself.


Get interesting hobbies, learn new foreign languages, choose a sport and take part it in. Become more social, in person, with as many people as you can.
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Old 27th May 2015, 10:25 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Elam View Post
There are serial-killers who are in death-row but they get love letters everyday, and many of the women are young and attractive. Who knows? There are mentally ill people everywhere. Some women are attracted to negative, depressed men.

Try to get with the women who've been talking to you? Or do you want a high-quality woman? In that case you have to be high-quality yourself. Work on yourself.


Get interesting hobbies, learn new foreign languages, choose a sport and take part it in. Become more social, in person, with as many people as you can.
This thread has NOTHING to do with me asking for advice on how to get women.

Its about why women respond to negative but ignore positive.
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Old 16th June 2015, 10:13 AM   #11
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OK...so no matter what causes them to respond, I visually look the same either way. Why arent any women responding to the "nice email" version of me, but I do get chances at dates from the "negative email" version of me? My photos and profile remain constant. If I have X amount of women becoming interested in me due to a negative email, shouldnt I be getting roughly X amount of women interested in me from the nice emails? The only thing I can think is that my negative email is "snapping" those women out of the trance somehow, and awakening their mind/senses.

So that poses another question....why does it take a negative email, or something that radical to get a woman to notice me?
Well, most of the time "nice" bears no meaning. Everyone is or can be nice to a degree ( and everyone is a little bit sht, too). What you have to be is interesting to them, have something to say, or find a connection. Maybe you are writing to women you have absolutely nothing in common with, or the common things are just too trivial? Lets say a woman gets 10 messages of niceties a day.. what makes yours better? Shes probably already had this conversation before.. several times...
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Old 16th June 2015, 11:24 AM   #12
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I can understand the increase in responses. There are just as many angry, jaded women out there who are mad at the opposite sex as there are men. Misery loves company. A romantic date idea would be a candle-lit rantfest followed by tickets to a set of man-bashing/woman-hating comedy shows.

It could be true love!
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Old 16th June 2015, 10:08 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Elif View Post
Lets say a woman gets 10 messages of niceties a day.. what makes yours better? Shes probably already had this conversation before.. several times...
I get that. So in turn, what makes her anything special to me? I think a lot of women rely on their looks/sex appeal to win a guy over, rather than having to "prove" their worth the way a guy typically does. The guy has to make it look like he is somehow better than the 25 other guys knocking at her door(even if he's really not). Its this level of unrealistic competition that causes a lot of guys to lie and feed women BS when courting them..
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Old 16th June 2015, 10:23 PM   #14
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When you stop trying to put out a nice facade to the world and start getting real things tend to fall into place in every aspect of life. It worked for me.
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Old 16th June 2015, 10:55 PM   #15
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So that poses another question....why does it take a negative email, or something that radical to get a woman to notice me?
Because women get too many compliments, IMO. If you look through their messages online, you will see a ton of guys telling them how beautiful they are, how they have a great smile, nice eyes, ect. Even an average looking girl can post a (probably touched up) pic on Facebook and she will have a bunch of guys tell her how hot she is. All of those spineless losers playing into her ego and kissing her behind. When you send a message that criticizes her a bit, that makes you stand out.

As an example, I am a gun collector, and I go shooting often. As a result, I'm pretty good at it. I see a lot of profiles online of women shooting guns, and 95% of the time, they are not doing it correctly. I will send them a message saying I like their gun, but their shooting form is a bit off. That has always gotten a reply.

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Originally Posted by Elam View Post
Try to get with the women who've been talking to you? Or do you want a high-quality woman? In that case you have to be high-quality yourself. Work on yourself.


Get interesting hobbies, learn new foreign languages, choose a sport and take part it in. Become more social, in person, with as many people as you can.
When using OLD, it seems a guy would have to do all of those things just to get a reply from an unemployed, overweight single mom. I have many interesting hobbies, am very outgoing, know some spanish, have a decent career, am somewhat educated, own my own home and a nice car. Still, almost zero women online would talk to me. It's just something about OLD. Out in the real world, it's totally different. Just had another young girl hit on me today.
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