Frank2thepoint Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I discovered this viral post on Reddit (People are just so mean to ugly women. Please be kinder, Reddit), about how a woman considers herself ugly, decided to go to a club (a very shallow venue if you ask me) to celebrate her friend's 21st birthday. She decided to doll herself up with makeup, go out, and have a blast. Unfortunately, by her claims, the opposite of having a blast happened to her. Reading the post made me question her maturity, sincerity, and ultimately her motives for this personal social experiment. Also, she refused to post a picture of herself, so the community could judge for themselves. Now I know some will argue that she has nothing to prove, take her word for it, she doesn't need to provide a photo of herself. But considering her age, modifying her looks with cosmetics, and criticizing the behavior of the male patrons in a discotheque (a very superficial place) does demand some proof of her "ugliness". Me thinks she isn't as ugly as she wants the reader to believe. What do you say folks? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
AD1980 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Clubs are very shallow that doesn't surprise me.But in general good looking people of both genders are treated better.. Women are much friendlier to my good looking friend then me it's life.. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
ascendotum Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Clubs are very shallow that doesn't surprise me.But in general good looking people of both genders are treated better.. Women are much friendlier to my good looking friend then me it's life.. Correct and correct. Its absolutely the same story for less attractive guys. For women I'd say the rejection gets cushioned a bit because of guys desire for sex. It is a little sad to read, but then I don't think women generally have much empathy for guys who struggle. I'd be curious to see what she looks like. 'butter face' girls at clubs still do okay. Non smiling or boring or low self esteem girls at clubs still do okay, whereas that would be a much bigger negative for a guy and you can't tart that up with makeup, so there are + /- in other respects with the genders. I find its the fat women who get given shyte (by both genders but definitely more so guys) when they try to dress up sexy...like 'why are bothering to try' or 'keep it under wraps' * * -not my personal comment but a common attitude. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
lollipopspot Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 For women I'd say the rejection gets cushioned a bit because of guys desire for sex. Not necessarily true. It is a little sad to read, but then I don't think women generally have much empathy for guys who struggle. So you're trying to say that "Women do it too!" to make it not seem so bad, or what? 'butter face' girls at clubs still do okay. Non smiling or boring or low self esteem girls at clubs still do okay It's certainly a common myth that no matter what a female looks or acts like, she'll still do o.k. Unfortunately, reality doesn't match that. There's a guy on this site who can't get any dates at all, who is still rejecting the "butter faced" girl in his class. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Lernaean_Hydra Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 A commenter later in the thread had this to say and I absolutely could not agree more: The thing is, the OP's story, the celebrity stories, what they all have in common: an absence of meanness. These are examples of neutral behavior. People not doing something nice for you. Not giving a stranger money so they can get into a club is not being mean. Not flirting with someone you don't find attractive is not being mean. These are not examples of being abusive or cruel; these examples don't even rise to neglect. They're not even being impolite. These are people who are just being neutral. Or in the case of the OP's photographer, paid to do a particular job. To be honest, I don't really doubt the OP's thesis. I just don't think this line of argument supports it at all. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
jay1983 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 A commenter later in the thread had this to say and I absolutely could not agree more: I ain't never had a strange woman cover my ass at the club. Link to post Share on other sites
Lernaean_Hydra Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I ain't never had a strange woman cover my ass at the club. Dude, right!? A drink, maybe but paying the fee to just get your ass in the door? Nah, never seen it...with either gender. Link to post Share on other sites
Phoe Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Other than the photographer telling her to move, no one was mean to her. I've had truly mean things happen, the examples she gives aren't even close, lol. Link to post Share on other sites
ascendotum Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Not necessarily true. I agree. Of course we cant speak for people on a personal level as to what its like feels like to have interactions with the opposite sex that is only based on sex. Most unattractive guys are not going to be getting ONS/FWB, whereas a lot of the equivalent women would. Lots of guys can drop their standards a lot for some NSA sex. I'm not saying for the less attractive women involved, that's a great consolation, but for many the validation or sheer fun from sex will be better than no attention. You might say no its not you would rather be single for x yrs, but I personally know unattractive women who say otherwise. So you're trying to say that "Women do it too!" to make it not seem so bad, or what? You have wrong conclusion - No. People treating others differently because of how they look sucks but its very much human nature. It happens to both sexes. It hits women's self esteem probably a little more but because more emphasis is placed on her value being derived from her beauty. While in 21st century society is more image obsessed than ever, the empowerment of women compared to the past helps in that they don't have to rely on men anymore to choose them to be a wife and be the 'little woman'. Guys dont get judged so much on their looks but do still on their attractiveness/charisma and their ability to do well with the ladies. I feel people would care less of the equivalent article from an ugly guy and would say just say man up and try harder. I have had variable attractiveness and got treated very differently by women, so I know first hand and because of that I am conscious of not treating women differently based on how they look. There is interesting posts on that link talking about dustin hoffman's revelation on how he got treated doing tootsie. I do feel empathy for an unattractive woman, for a former slim woman who gets fat and complains of being treated differently, less so. It's certainly a common myth that no matter what a female looks or acts like, she'll still do o.k. Unfortunately, reality doesn't match that. There's a guy on this site who can't get any dates at all, who is still rejecting the "butter faced" girl in his class. To an extent I think that, but of course when it comes down to 'no matter what a female looks like' we end up with a 100% situation and of course that's crazy for any guy to say that. Testosterone and tits & ass helps motivate lots of guys. Guys who struggle who are still fussy definitely do exist. I've know then. Sometimes its not so clear cut on just looks. ie: the guy might be average looks in face and slim build but is a little short + low confidence + serious nature so struggles. He thinks wanting a slim & average face gf is not outrageous, but his other attributes that he thinks should not be a big deal are to many women, so he struggles and gets frustrated. Also effecting his mindset are his good looking friends who are going through lots of pretty girls for sex, and struggling guy thinks hey I just want 1 not ugly/plain girl who I will treat much better than a sex object. Hey I'm not saying its right/wrong for no date guy to think like this, but sometimes it not so straightforward then simply being judgmental. LPS - my comments in your post. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Anela Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I wouldn't expect a stranger to pay my way into a club, but it was unfair of them to pay for her friends, and leave her to most likely be left outside alone (or left to go home). This is mean: There was a photographer going around the club, taking pictures of the people there. I assume it was for some promo for their website or something. He got to our group, and literally circled us several times, taking several pics from different angles. I was kind of psyched about this, so I did my best to look like I was having a good time, made sure he could snap me at my best. But after a while I realized he wasn't circling us to get our best angles. He was trying to get a frame without ME. If I moved closer to the center of the group, for instance, he would tilt his camera a little the other way. I couldn't believe it until finally, he actually came up to me and asked me to get out of the shot. And the guy who danced, but wouldn't look at her, and then was all smiles with a prettier girl? That sort of thing hurts. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Just from her description of her being prodded to buy a decent outfit, doing her hair, etc., I get the idea her biggest problem is she isn't usually trying at all and now she tried and is using this experience to justify never trying to look decent again. Of course, I could be wrong. But if she has the attitude she's ugly and doesn't usually on a daily basis do all she can to look her best and present herself well, it only makes sense she has a defeatist attitude that won't serve her in a bar scene. Link to post Share on other sites
Phoe Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 And the guy who danced, but wouldn't look at her, and then was all smiles with a prettier girl? That sort of thing hurts. Sure it hurts, but it's not intentional cruelty on his part. This happens to EVERYONE. everyone has moments where a guy/girl is clearly, visibly interested in someone else. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Anela Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Sure it hurts, but it's not intentional cruelty on his part. This happens to EVERYONE. everyone has moments where a guy/girl is clearly, visibly interested in someone else. And them all being ready to leave her outside? That wasn't mean? I think it was. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Lernaean_Hydra Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Other than the photographer telling her to move, no one was mean to her. I've had truly mean things happen, the examples she gives aren't even close, lol. I wouldn't expect a stranger to pay my way into a club, but it was unfair of them to pay for her friends, and leave her to most likely be left outside alone (or left to go home). This is mean: And the guy who danced, but wouldn't look at her, and then was all smiles with a prettier girl? That sort of thing hurts. There's this school of thought that's been floating around the internet for a while (further given credence by some third wave feminists) that states that basically NOT buying a woman drink, cat-calling her, or dancing with her is some form of intentional cruelty almost worse than flatout calling her ugly. It's called "street dismissal" (the so-called opposite of street harassment). Now, some of the anecdotes given are examples of extremely rude, awful and yes actually "mean" behavior - intentionally letting a door close on a woman, making a point to address everyone in a group of friends EXCEPT her, etc. But the majority are like this woman's supposed encounters. There's a strong undercurrent of sheer entitlement. I mean, I hate to say it but if you think a group of random strangers not falling all over themselves to pay your way into a venue you should really readjust your perspective on the world and the way it works. While yes, it might hurt your feelings to discover guys don't want to throw money at you but they're not exactly being malicious for not doing so. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Lernaean_Hydra Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 And them all being ready to leave her outside? That wasn't mean? I think it was. She specifically stated: but I was holding up the line, my friends weren't about to enter without me Link to post Share on other sites
Anela Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 There's a strong undercurrent of sheer entitlement. I mean, I hate to say it but if you think a group of random strangers not falling all over themselves to pay your way into a venue you should really readjust your perspective on the world and the way it works. While yes, it might hurt your feelings to discover guys don't want to throw money at you but they're not exactly being malicious for not doing so. I hope you aren't referring to me personally, because I've never expected that sort of thing. I do think it's unfair of them to decide to pay for her friends, but leave her out in the cold. I don't care about third-wave feminism. I'm referring to kindness. These guys offered to pay - I don't think that they asked them to, did they? Link to post Share on other sites
ThaWholigan Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Her story is actually a pretty common one. It's not right of course, but I've actually seen with my own eyes much, much worse examples of girls being mistreated in nightclubs, particularly if they are seen as conventionally unattractive. I think her post is a poignant one and I don't think she's wrong for being pissed but she's pretty much preaching to the choir. Link to post Share on other sites
Gloria25 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I need to see pics in order to better comment here... Any who, yes, clubs are full of douchey people...they are not looking to get to know you. I only liked clubbing cuz of the dancing to lights, fog, and loud music... Believe it or not, at the clubs I dance alone or there's a bunch of space between me and the guy (unless he came with me to the club ) I mean, I'm not letting some guy come and dry-hump me. He can hire a hooker for that. I stopped going to the clubs cuz I grew out of it, it's expensive; and, got tired of people stepping on my nicely painted tippy toes, people spilling drinks on you, and people who are just rude. I mean, I posted here about the guy who I had to throw on the floor for putting his hand on my butt...and there's been other times that guys don't leave you alone. I mean, one time I was dancing by myself and this guy kept on like getting closer and I backed off, turned away and then he had the nerve to grab my arm and I had to push him off. He's lucky he didn't end up on the floor like the other guy. And, then there's the pushy chicks...again, I'm dancing by myself and the chicks wanna come and grind on you too. I don't like aggressive chicks trying to grind on me either. So, this "social experiment" was done in an environment that is just full of people that are just gonna be rude and pushy anyways Link to post Share on other sites
Author Frank2thepoint Posted October 25, 2014 Author Share Posted October 25, 2014 There's this school of thought that's been floating around the internet for a while (further given credence by some third wave feminists) that states that basically NOT buying a woman drink, cat-calling her, or dancing with her is some form of intentional cruelty almost worse than flatout calling her ugly. It's called "street dismissal" (the so-called opposite of street harassment). I can understand not buying a woman a drink or dancing with her as "street dismissal", but cat-calling? Cat-calling isn't really dismissing the girl. There is some kind of attention and acknowledgment of her existence when cat-calling. There's a strong undercurrent of sheer entitlement. I mean, I hate to say it but if you think a group of random strangers not falling all over themselves to pay your way into a venue you should really readjust your perspective on the world and the way it works. I strongly agree the poster feels entitled to attention. She selectively gave her account of her experience at the night club, focusing on things that made her feel not the center of attention in that moment. Such as when she was trying to enter the club, and the men were rummaging through their wallets looking for money to cover her entrance. Maybe those men were low on cash. And the guys that were avoiding contact were probably guys that didn't want to give money because they thought she is another club going chick looking for a free entrance. To boot, she mentioned there was an ATM nearby, but she refused to withdraw money to cover herself, as if using an ATM is a social faux pas. I need to see pics in order to better comment here... I agree. I call bullsh*t on this girl's rant. At my current juncture of my opinion, she is just looking for attention and a free ride through life. She has no qualm with playing the victim card for something superficial and asinine. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
OwMyEyeball Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Dear Society, Your indifference towards me activates my self-awareness, which in turn stokes my doubts and fears. Please change. Sincerely, Someone whose feelings were hurt 8 Link to post Share on other sites
PJKino Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 No offense but this is about an eight of what unattractive men go through at these places and in general. If she had to be the pursuer and actually get rudely shot down hundreds of times shed probably be suicidal if something like this really gets her down. Plus as a women she has a support system and people saying how great she is while unattractive men are told to man up show confidence and stop whining 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Maleficent Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 There's this school of thought that's been floating around the internet for a while (further given credence by some third wave feminists) that states that basically NOT buying a woman drink, cat-calling her, or dancing with her is some form of intentional cruelty almost worse than flatout calling her ugly. It's called "street dismissal" (the so-called opposite of street harassment). So now it's badly seen when a man buys you a drink (he wants to get in your pants( and catcalls (just plain rude) he is also an ass for NOT doing it? HOw the hell does that work? Link to post Share on other sites
Gloria25 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 No offense but this is about an eight of what unattractive men go through at these places and in general. If she had to be the pursuer and actually get rudely shot down hundreds of times shed probably be suicidal if something like this really gets her down. Plus as a women she has a support system and people saying how great she is while unattractive men are told to man up show confidence and stop whining Well, I hope I'm not being shallow, but I've never really been attracted to the guys I've seen in the club....Seems like there are more hot chicks than hot guys. There's days I think they pay those chicks to come into the club to drum up guys to come in and/or those are just girls doing a "girls nite out" and have no intention of meeting guys (but are all to happy to have guys buy them drinks). 1 Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 So I read the article whilst watching the story on CNN about the homecoming prince shooting up the school and wonder what's become of us. As to the social experiment, there is plenty of precedent in mainstream media where an otherwise attractive anchorwoman/talking head would don the fat suit and ugly herself up and wander around with a hidden camera following. It's a cruel world. The only protection some have is our socialized and legal inhibition about ending others violently. I guess it's fortunate for them that we're civilized. They can get away with more without consequence. Mostly. I hope the young lady gains such a perspective, presuming authenticity of her account, hardens up a bit and joins the real world. Perhaps find some different friends too. Other stuff in life to do. Oh, one tip: When going out in public, always have money. That's a consequence of equal rights. Enjoy! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
OwMyEyeball Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 So now it's badly seen when a man buys you a drink (he wants to get in your pants( and catcalls (just plain rude) he is also an ass for NOT doing it? HOw the hell does that work? It only really works if you see each sex as a monolithic hive-minded entity devoid of personal preference and incapable of change. Then, anything one member of the hive says applies to the entire collective. Confusion sets in one member makes a statement contradictory to what another has previously stated. It almost leads one to conclude that women are individuals. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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