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Old 27th December 2001, 2:54 AM   #1
Laurynn
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Am I stupid?

Hi folks,

Sorry to be a pest but I really need your advice.

Remember how I told you about the new guy I've been seeing? (for 3 weeks now)....well I'd originally told you that he was divorced but that wasn't entirely true. I told you all that for 2 reasons......first of all, because at the time I was given the impression from him that his divorce would be final any day now, that it was just a matter of the courts finding the time to grant it (divorces are a little different here in Canada)...and secondly, cuz I figured you'd all think I was nutso for dating a guy who wasn't yet officially divorced (he's been separated for 16 months...his "ex" has had a boyfriend all during that time and still does, so I'm told).

I'm just wondering if there are some red flags here, regarding his marriage/pending divorce, ex, etc....

He'd originally told me that everything for the divorce (paperwork) as in order..it was just a matter of waiting for the courts to get to their paperwork and grant the divorce....he said his lawyer told him it could be 3-4 months.

I then find out that it was his ex who was the one who filed for it......her lawyer apparently sent the divorce papers to his lawyer, his lawyer rewrote them (must have been something he didn't like) and sent them back. Now wouldn't you think she'd have had to sign them, then, and send them back then him sign them? Without meaning to be a prying nag, I've asked about this and I don't seem to get a really straight answer. In fact, there was one point where he seemed to ?slip up and say something to the affect that she still had to FILE them.

They were married for 13 yrs. They have a legal separation agreement and the child custody, child support and alimony stuff has all been worked out....he pays months child support and alimony...and he paid her out a fair bit (equity in their home, etc etc).

I was over there a few days ago, for breakfast...and she phoned. His boys were there.....he answered the phone, talking in a normal voice ..then he passed the phone to each of his sons so they could talk to her. He then talked to her......for a good 10 minutes....and he was speaking rather quietly, pretty much like he didn't want me to to hear what was being said. This made me feel sick inside.....

I feel uncomfortable going to his house...cuz I feel like she's all over the place. How could I ever hope to compete with the 13 yrs she's spent with him?

I know he's dated several women (nothing serious, longest gal he was with was for 5 weeks, he says) since her but I worry that maybe I'm still some kind of 'rebound girl'.....

Yesterday, Christmas Day, he wanted to call his sons from my place, to wish them a Merry Christmas...and he asked how to block out my number (he was either calling her place or her parent's place)..I asked him WHY he'd feel the need to do that......he said that "his personal life was none of her business." Also..when she called him at his place the other morning, he said he could tell that she was calling from her boyfriend's place because the number had been blocked out on his Caller ID...that that's what she did when she wasn't calling from her house/was calling from boyfriend's house.

So yesterday, when he started this bit about how each of them does their own thing and each other's personal life is none of the other's business, it really struck me strange...almost like they're both playing some kind of game.....like they're "pretending" to not be dating people.

Last night we stopped at his house and he called his kids from there......he and his boys had picked me out a small gift, so while they were on the phone, I asked him to say 'thanks' for me, and to wish them a Merry Christmas from me.......

After he hung up, I sorta chuckled to myself (and out loud)....about how weird it might sound to her when her one son would tell the other one, 'Laurynn says Merry Christmas'.......He then said to me, "what are you doing, trying to start a cat fight?" .....how the hell would that be trying to start a cat fight? If she's moved on with her life, has filed for a divorce, has a boyfriend and he's moved on with his life and is now with me, why would there be a cat fight? She shouldn't give a crap about me dating him, just as he shouldn't care that she's with someone else..or is there something else going on here?

On the wall in his living room, there are 2 pictures of his sons (school pictures)..in the middle, there's a nail hole in the wall.....it's obvious there was a large picture hanging there at one time. I see in the kitchen, there's a picture sitting against the wall, behind the garbage can....looks about the same size as the spot that's on the wall.....a picture of him and her?...family picture? I was tempted to have a look at it, but to be truthful, I didn't want to upset myself, had it been a pic of him and her.

If my friends or family knew I was dating someone who wasn't yet divorced, and who was a little vague about "when" the divorce would be final, they'd tell me to have my head examined.

Something else that I find a little strange......there was a week there, shortly after we started seeing each other (as I've written about here) where he wanted to spend every night over at my house...then we had that little episode where we had a disagreement and he 'needed to go home'....

Well it seems like he's sometimes very restless while he's here......like he's got somewhere else to be. When he's hear during the week, he'll keep his cell phone on the table with his keys but he'll always turn the ringer off....then in the morning before he leaves for work, he'll look to see who's called..always says it's "work people".....maybe not?

He stayed over the past 2 nights because he wanted to, although I told him I wouldn't be offended if he didn't want to. This morning when we got up, he seemed restless again....kept saying he had to go home and do all these things...that he had to clean his house and do laundry......made it seem like he had tons to do. When we were at his house last night, his house was truly spotless.

So he hung out at my house all day......I made suggestions to do things..go for a drive, go for a drink, go for a bite to eat...but he seemed quite content just being a slug on the couch and watching TV (I was actually kind of disappointed, actually.....I didn't get into a relationship so that we could be hermits and spend all day being slugs..anyway)....

Then tonight he got dressed (from his sweats into his jeans) and put on the new cologne I bought him......and left. I told him to check his email when he got home...well, it's now 12:37 and he's obviously not checked it yet. I know this is probably crazy and paranoid of me...but my gut says he didn't go home....that he went somewhere else. Not just cuz he didn't read his email or reply to it, but cuz he's the type who'd call to say 'goodnight' before he went to bed, and he hasn't.

I can't dump his ass or accuse him of cheating if I have no proof, and God knows I want so much to trust him....he's a good guy in so many ways.......but something just feels a little 'off' here.

When he's here, he's very, um, frisky.....mind is constantly on sex and fooling around and being silly like that..which is okay with me, but it's almost to the point that I feel like he's only interested in getting me into bed (no, we haven't yet had sex).........In the beginning, he started out so thoughtful (god, in the beginning? haha..it's only been 3 weeks) and considerate..giving me cards, little things to show me he cared.......now it seems the only thing he's interested in is grabbing my b**bs and groping me and acting like a h*rny teenager. It feels like some important elements are missing......the 'substance'.....I don't know how to explain it but there doesn't seem to be much 'depth' there on his part........for instance, for Christmas his gift to me was a Vase. That to me is like something you'd buy your Mom or Grandma. He says he bought it cuz I needed one...cuz a couple weeks ago when he brought me home some flowers, I didn't really have one to put them in........I guess that was thoughtful of him to take note of that, but how much thought was put into picking out a Vase?

Since we've started dating, he hasn't once taken me out to dinner, 'cept to Burger King and McDonalds with his kids. Woopee doo. We seem to just spend all our time her at my house, sitting on the couch while he gropes me. I've dated schmucks in the past, and ones who didn't have great jobs like he has, and even they'd take me out for a nice dinner at some point in the beginning.

I'm trying to make my home 'too comfortable'...meaning, it's in my nature that when I'm dating someone, to bend over backwards...to be little Holly Homemaker and always be making a nice meal, everything perfect, etc........I've tried not to 'spoil him' this way.......so if I didn't offer to make something for us to eat for dinner, we'd have nothing. I know he pays a lot per month in alimony and child support, and he has a heft mortgage payment, but is that my fault?

When we first started dating, I didn't go into a lot of the gory details, but I we did get talking about past relationships and it did come out that I've been in a lot of unhappy, unhealthy relationships in the past where the guys used me, mistreated me, were very cheap, didn't make me feel very loved, etc............he couldn't stop telling me, then, how he was going to 'spoil me' and do all he could to make me feel special, like I deserved to feel (though I assured him that he owed me nothing).....but I don't see that happen and for God's sake, it's only been 3 weeks.

I don't know what to make of it all..and yes, Oliver, I do overanalyze (LOL).....but that's just me and that's how I'll always be. I'll never let him know I'm like this, cuz guys don't like that......so that's why I turn to you folks here.

Okay so it's 12:45am and he just called but I just didn't feel like answering. He couldn't stop talking about how he had to get home and that he'd be in bed by 11pm, that he had all this housework to do before going to bed, but he calls me at nearly 1am? Makes little sense to me. Nothing makes a lot of sense. I'm trying not to be so cynical and worried about stuff.....but I'm terrified that I'm going to end up getting used/hurt. I don't let him know that I worry about this, I really don't, but it's there nevertheless.

I'd appreciate your thoughts and insights

Laurynn
 
Old 27th December 2001, 3:00 AM   #2
Laurynn
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correction:

Correction..that one line should have read: "I'm trying NOT to make my home too comfortable"....

L
 
Old 27th December 2001, 4:13 AM   #3
Laurynn
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sorry, one more important detail

One more thing I forgot to mention, about his ?pending divorce.....because it was his ex who supposedly filed for it, she ultimately calls the shots as far as things proceeding. It makes me very uneasy that she could change her mind tomorrow and tell her lawyer to put things on hold (I've talked to a local lawyer about this, and she confirmed this..that the person filing has the upper hand as to whether things continue to proceed). I worry that she'll suddenly get jealous that he's happy with someone else and she'll decide she wants him back, then where will that leave me? Yes, she has a boyfriend (well, so I've been told, who knows for sure)....but after having spent 13 yrs together, *I* could be some kind of 'wakeup call' that causes her to suddenly want to reconcile with him.

I've tried not to make a big issue of this, but I've discuss my concerns with him..and he assures me that she'd never want to get back together, and that more importantly, that he'd never want to get back with her.......and that I have nothing to worry about because after going through all the separation process (division of assets, child support and alimony payments being set, her buying her own house, etc), there's no way she'd want to get back with him but....

I'm supposedly the first gal he's dated who he's introduced his children to.....obviously his kids are going to tell her about me, and judging from the phone call on the weekend, I got the impression (based on the "one word" answers that the oldest boy was giving her) that she was asking about me (maybe things like "is she there right now?", etc)......The kids bought me a little Xmas gift.....they've been to my house a few times, we've spent a fair bit of time together (shopping, going for dinner, etc etc).....if they start mentioning my name around her house, that might just be what it takes to suddenly spark some kind of 'renewed interest' in him (my guy)....and she could suddenly have a change of heart. Could he really resist the mother of his children and past wife of 13 yrs wanting to reunite their family, versus starting a life with me...someone he's only been with for 3 weeks?

It all just seems so very risky to me. The only person who stands to get hurt here, is me. Keep in mind, their marriage ended cuz she left him....she just wasn't happy and felt like she was missing on things (they married when she was 19 and he was 21).......how can he not still be hurt by the fact that his wife of so many years left him? How can he NOT look at his children and not think of her? (the youngest is a spitting image)

Yes, yes..I know, there are no guarantees in life.....I wish there was some concrete way for me to be reassured that he's over her, that there's no chance in hell that she'll wake up one day and decide she wants to be back together.

I've heard of stories in the past where a couple will split up and they'll go on with their lives, but when the person who left learns that their spouse has moved on and is happy with someone else, they suddenly realize the grass on the other side wasn't (isn't) all that green..and maybe they made a mistake.

The first time I was at his house, it was in the evening and we'd just stopped there to feed his cats...he didn't turn on many lights, but I could see a lot of his kid's pictures (framed) sitting on some kind of entertainment center......I had a good look to see if there were any pictures of his ex (just curious to know what she looked like).....there didn't appear to be any.

The other day when I was over there (and again yesterday), there seemed to be a picture that I'd not seen there previously...it was a pic of his ex, along with the kids......I could almost swear that it hadn't been there before.

Maybe I should just forget about him....I've already got doubts and fears and by virtue of this 'divorce' thing, I'm in a rather precarious position...maybe I should just find someone who's never been divorced, or someone who's at least been divorced for quite some time and no risk of any of this crap happening.

Sorry for writing so much..but this really isn't something I can discuss w/ anyone else. I appreciate your help

L
 
Old 27th December 2001, 9:40 AM   #4
Crystal
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Re: sorry, one more important detail

my goodnes, i've gotten all stressed just reading all this. i already want to dump him my self and break his rotten little neck. you can never replace his wife of 13 years, so don't even begin to try. you can only create new lives, new memories, etc. in my humble honest opinion, i would dump this guy by now, just for still being married and blocking out phone numbers, not wanting to do nothing but sit around and play sexual teasing games, hell maybe he's just trying to break you because you wont have sex with him.

i don't know what else to say other then this sounds like a mess already and only after three weeks. sounds like you have a green eyed monster playng a role here too which is only going to make things worse.

find someone who doesn't have so much crap going on in their lives. maybe he is good in some ways and that is what made you like him in the first place, but that part of him seems to of fallen off by the wayside and so soon.

what ever you decide, try to look at the big picture here, you do a good job at putting it in a post but have you really throught it through. you may end up getting hurt even more along the way and it seems that way all ready. my vote is to get out while the getting is good, just tell him either the truth or make things up like he does. this guy just sounds like a flake. warm wishes and good luck
Quote:
One more thing I forgot to mention, about his ?pending divorce.....because it was his ex who supposedly filed for it, she ultimately calls the shots as far as things proceeding. It makes me very uneasy that she could change her mind tomorrow and tell her lawyer to put things on hold (I've talked to a local lawyer about this, and she confirmed this..that the person filing has the upper hand as to whether things continue to proceed). I worry that she'll suddenly get jealous that he's happy with someone else and she'll decide she wants him back, then where will that leave me? Yes, she has a boyfriend (well, so I've been told, who knows for sure)....but after having spent 13 yrs together, *I* could be some kind of 'wakeup call' that causes her to suddenly want to reconcile with him. I've tried not to make a big issue of this, but I've discuss my concerns with him..and he assures me that she'd never want to get back together, and that more importantly, that he'd never want to get back with her.......and that I have nothing to worry about because after going through all the separation process (division of assets, child support and alimony payments being set, her buying her own house, etc), there's no way she'd want to get back with him but.... I'm supposedly the first gal he's dated who he's introduced his children to.....obviously his kids are going to tell her about me, and judging from the phone call on the weekend, I got the impression (based on the "one word" answers that the oldest boy was giving her) that she was asking about me (maybe things like "is she there right now?", etc)......The kids bought me a little Xmas gift.....they've been to my house a few times, we've spent a fair bit of time together (shopping, going for dinner, etc etc).....if they start mentioning my name around her house, that might just be what it takes to suddenly spark some kind of 'renewed interest' in him (my guy)....and she could suddenly have a change of heart. Could he really resist the mother of his children and past wife of 13 yrs wanting to reunite their family, versus starting a life with me...someone he's only been with for 3 weeks? It all just seems so very risky to me. The only person who stands to get hurt here, is me. Keep in mind, their marriage ended cuz she left him....she just wasn't happy and felt like she was missing on things (they married when she was 19 and he was 21).......how can he not still be hurt by the fact that his wife of so many years left him? How can he NOT look at his children and not think of her? (the youngest is a spitting image) Yes, yes..I know, there are no guarantees in life.....I wish there was some concrete way for me to be reassured that he's over her, that there's no chance in hell that she'll wake up one day and decide she wants to be back together.

I've heard of stories in the past where a couple will split up and they'll go on with their lives, but when the person who left learns that their spouse has moved on and is happy with someone else, they suddenly realize the grass on the other side wasn't (isn't) all that green..and maybe they made a mistake. The first time I was at his house, it was in the evening and we'd just stopped there to feed his cats...he didn't turn on many lights, but I could see a lot of his kid's pictures (framed) sitting on some kind of entertainment center......I had a good look to see if there were any pictures of his ex (just curious to know what she looked like).....there didn't appear to be any. The other day when I was over there (and again yesterday), there seemed to be a picture that I'd not seen there previously...it was a pic of his ex, along with the kids......I could almost swear that it hadn't been there before.

Maybe I should just forget about him....I've already got doubts and fears and by virtue of this 'divorce' thing, I'm in a rather precarious position...maybe I should just find someone who's never been divorced, or someone who's at least been divorced for quite some time and no risk of any of this crap happening. Sorry for writing so much..but this really isn't something I can discuss w/ anyone else. I appreciate your help L
 
Old 27th December 2001, 10:14 AM   #5
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Re: Am I stupid?

1. "Now wouldn't you think she'd have had to sign them, then, and send them back then him sign them?"

Not necessarily. If the other parties doesn't agree with all the changes, they may negotiate for weeks in memos, court sessions, email, mediation, etc. Attorneys are taught to generate fees and they can't make a living if they make everyone's life simple, fair and logical.

You may think these things were all worked out but I've seen divorces and other legal cases strung out 10 or 15 years. These are unusual but there NO agreement until the papers are signed...and even then, either party can go back to court for changes, amendments, increases or decreases in monies paid, etc. Marriages may not be forever in some cases but divorces can be some cases, especially when there are children.

2. "and he was speaking rather quietly, pretty much like he didn't want me to to hear what was being said. This made me feel sick inside....."

No person wants someone they are dating to hear them talking to their ex (or soon to be ex). He was trying NOT to make you feel sick inside. But had he gone to another room to have this conversation, not only would you have been sick but you would have been mad as hell as well...only because he was trying to spare you this.

Give him a break. He is divorcing this bxtch. She filed against HIM. She doesn't want to be married to him. But he HAS TO BE NICE until the divorce papers are signed. When somebody's got a man by the balls (child support, alimony, cash, etc.), it's only good psychology to talk kindly to them and be nice to them until they safely let go.

3. "almost like they're both playing some kind of game.....like they're "pretending" to not be dating people."

No, it's not a game...it's very much for real. Until this divorce is final, neither one wants to ruffle the other too much or rub things in the other's face. I understand this very well. They are conducting themselves kindly. From an evidentiary standpoint, your guy has absolutely no evidence she is at her boyfriends. This is completely a "conclusion of the witness" as they say.

4. "If she's moved on with her life, has filed for a divorce, has a boyfriend and he's moved on with his life and is now with me, why would there be a cat fight?"

You have to understand some, actually quite many, women. Many women (I guess the same goes for men) are jealous and territorial by nature. But at the same time they don't want to date or be married to somebody, they don't want anybody else to date or be married to them either. It's a form of insanity but it happens all over. For a lady who usually has tremendous insight into the human condition, you are just jumping all over it here.

His ex will NEVER want to face the face that this guy who she was married to for 13 years is dating, married, or screwing somebody else...no matter whether she's dating, married, or screwing the whole town. It's just nature in many people.

Your guy is in the best position to know her. He is obviously aware she is a taco short of a combination platter. He's probably a very committed guy who would have never filed for divorce but who was nevertheless very relieved when she did. Ask him.

5. "then in the morning before he leaves for work, he'll look to see who's called..always says it's "work people".....maybe not?"

Who calls him on his cell phone is very much out of his control and very much his business. I think it's an excellent idea, if the ex has the cell number and desires to exercise meanness to check on him, to turn the cell phone off when he's at your house. The guy is downright considerate as hell and you don't even appreciate it???

Do you want him taking calls from her, business calls, and other personal calls while he is at your house? That would be terribly rude. If I'm eating lunch with somebody and they start a longwinded conversation on their cell, I get up, walk out and leave them with the check. That's the understanding when we enter the restaurant.

6. "This morning when we got up, he seemed restless again....kept saying he had to go home and do all these things...that he had to clean his house and do laundry......made it seem like he had tons to do."

People get restless when they are confused, have a lot on their mind, or just want to be alone to think about matters. The cleaner a person's house, the more they desire to clean. Have you ever heard of a person who had a filthy house tell you they needed to leave your place to go clean their house...and actually did that? I promise you, he did some cleaning. People clean when they're anxious. Until his divorce is over, his kids are grown, have good jobs, have houses, spouses and children and his grandchildren are grown with houses, spouses and children, he is likely to get figety sometimes. Can you handle that?

7. "my gut says he didn't go home....that he went somewhere else. Not just cuz he didn't read his email or reply to it, but cuz he's the type who'd call to say 'goodnight' before he went to bed, and he hasn't."

He may very well be seeing other ladies without the knowledge of his children, so they won't spill the beans. But he could also just want to be alone, he could be meeting friends, he could be driving the town just thinking like I often do.

I don't think your relationship is at a stage (three or four weeks since you met) where he has to give you his minute by minute schedule. As I told you before, you are taking this whole thing WAY TO FAST, you are suffering from analysis paralysis and you are headed for the funny farm if you don't lighten up.

At this point, I am thinking you are just with the wrong guy but let me keep going and I'll consider this later. If I had to go through all the head stuff you are going through with somebody, they would be absolute history. Just forget it. Usually you would do that too. You are definitely in love...I can tell that without even asking!!!

You are putting up with stuff you wouldn't even think about putting up with in some other guy.

8. "I guess that was thoughtful of him to take note of that, but how much thought was put into picking out a Vase?"

To girls I have dated for three weeks, I give MacDonald's gift certificates. Do you think that's why they quit seeing me? At least you've got a vase to put his ashes in when you burn his butt!!!

9. "Since we've started dating, he hasn't once taken me out to dinner, 'cept to Burger King and McDonalds with his kids. Woopee doo. We seem to just spend all our time her at my house, sitting on the couch while he gropes me."

This is NOT a good or normal dating situation. Since we love you here I'm sure there's not a soul who comes here on a regular basis who wants to see you treated like this. You've only been seeing him three weeks. MacDonalds is something you do with a girl after months and months, unless you're in high school.

He should be taking you out to dinner, on picnics, walking in the park, theatre, concerts...romancing the hell out of you. Do you want to marry this guy and look back on your courting days and how he took you to Mickey D's with his kids and chased you around your house trying to squeeze your boobs??? Take a cold shower before you think about this. I know you well enough you wouldn't put up with this crap for 9 seconds with any other guy. That's why I'm telling you you need to start engaging your brain a little more and pulling in your heart until an appropriate time...like after he's been divorced a while...after you've seen how he will relate to his ex wife for the next 40 years...how his kids will fare psychologically in all this...how much money he'll have left for another family after he makes payments on the one he had, etc.

10. "it's in my nature that when I'm dating someone, to bend over backwards..."

When you bend over backwards, you get screwed. Ask Plato, Aristotle and Socrates. They came from Greece.

11. "I know he pays a lot per month in alimony and child support, and he has a heft mortgage payment, but is that my fault?"

No, but it is your fault if you make the free decision to be a part of a guy's life who's funds go first to a lot of obligations with the remainder left to take you and the kids to MacDonalds.

12. "he was going to 'spoil me' and do all he could to make me feel special, like I deserved to feel (though I assured him that he owed me nothing).....but I don't see that happen and for God's sake, it's only been 3 weeks."

This guy's not so bad. When I first meet a girl, I tell her my last name is Rockefeller, I am a heart surgeon, I have offices in New York, Beverly Hills, Paris, London and Brussels. I let her know I spend three months out of the year in my places on the Riviera, on cruise ships, at various homes throughout Europe, etc.

I make it very clear to her that the wife I choose will never have to move a muscle and that the world will be hers with my $5 million per year salary and my $50 million stock portfolio.

That usually keeps them around until they look up the local real estate records and find out I live in public housing.

Men tend to tell a woman a lot of crap in the beginning and let me tell you girl, you know this better than anybody. You are in love...and I feel so terribly that it may be with the WRONG guy at the WRONG time in the WRONG place. Everything you have written is stuff you just wouldn't take from any other soul. Take a cold shower, again!!!

13. "He couldn't stop talking about how he had to get home and that he'd be in bed by 11pm, that he had all this housework to do before going to bed, but he calls me at nearly 1am?"

Perhaps he did his housework, paperwork, reading, planning, etc. and was looking forward to talking to you as a reward for himself.

14. "I'm terrified that I'm going to end up getting used/hurt. I don't let him know that I worry about this, I really don't, but it's there nevertheless."

I'm not there so I don't really know what's going on. Normally, I would tell you to tell him just how you feel. But if a lady told me this stuff three weeks after meeting her, I would flip out and dial 911.

You are way way way way way way way way into this way way way way way way too much for what it is. You are smitten with a married man, who has children, who has a job, who has things he must do. He's not a child and he has no committment or obligation to you whatsoever. At this point he is free to leave your house and go to the red light district and screw his brains out and you have no say in it and no reason to question it. You are not in a committed relationship no matter what the two of you have told each other. HE IS A MARRIED MAN WITH CHILDREN and he will continue to be the former until they agree on the wording of the divorce papers, which may be next week or next decade.

Note: I'm not going to proofread this because it's way too long so forgive grammar and spelling errors.
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Old 27th December 2001, 10:16 AM   #6
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Re: correction:

YOU WRITE: ""I'm trying NOT to make my home too comfortable"

Ok, I'm sure. And that's one thing you are doing right. However, I'd bet big bucks that subconsciously you are making it so he wants to hang around as much as possible.
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Old 27th December 2001, 10:19 AM   #7
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Re: sorry, one more important detail

YOU WRITE: " It makes me very uneasy that she could change her mind tomorrow and tell her lawyer to put things on hold"

Yes, this is possible. Do you see what you're doing here? You're right in your same old pattern, except this time you know up front that the guy is married so somehow in your mind that's OK.

No, it's absolutely find to date a guy going through a divorce but in my opinion that's the absolute worst time to strike up a relationship.

I wish that you could enjoy his company without being in love with him so quickly and without going looney everytime he says or does something that raises a red flag. There will always be red flags around a guy who is going through a divorce, who has children, and who has been married for a good while.
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Old 27th December 2001, 1:35 PM   #8
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Re: sorry, one more important detail

LOL ... Actually, there will always be red flags around most ANY guy, no matter if he's married, divorced, single, from another planet, etc. etc.

Besides, they make life interesting.
 
Old 27th December 2001, 1:52 PM   #9
Daisy
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Re: Am I stupid?

First of all, I'm not even going to attempt to cover most of this only because I've never experienced something like this, therefore I have no credibility in this kind of situation.

However, I will tell you what I would do if I were in your situation. I wouldn't dump him. I would, however, take a minor break from the situation. Perhaps, visit a friend or relatives out of town, just to get myself out of the situation without having to request a break from the relationship. Because nobody likes to hear that the person their dating wants to take a breather to figure things out, because that literally spells doom in the other person's eyes. At least it would in mine.

I think you need to take a little bit of time for yourself to let your head clear, without him being around. Because I agree with Tony in that this whole relationship is progressing WAY too fast. And while fast doesn't necessarily always lead to disaster, in your situation you have so many other things to deal with (such as him proceeding with divorce, his kids, his ex) that going fast is the exact OPPOSITE of what you need to be accomplishing in order for this relationship to work.

That's why I think it'd be good for you to take a slight breather from this relationship. Not break up with him, just spend some alone Laurynn time. It might help you calm down some and maybe it'll help clear your mind so you can obtain a better picture of the relationship. And hopefully, it'll help to slow down the relationship some, which is a major goal you need to focus on in this relationship.
 
Old 27th December 2001, 2:17 PM   #10
Laurynn
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Thanks, Tony and Crystal....

Thanks VERY much to you both, for taking the time to really tell me what you think. I feel real silly for having written all that I have, for seeming like a freaking 'relationship-hypochondriac', but I know myself....I know how hurt I can get....I know how hard I can 'fall' and I'm trying to be so careful here, I'm trying to stop from doing what I've done in the past, and that's being naive and 'blowing off' the little red flags, all for the sake of love......

I don't know if I'm falling in love with him, I'm trying not to. I've always been one to fall in love quickly...I'm trying to just take it slow and really get to know him before I totally give my heart.

A lot of the points you make, Tony, are great ones (as usual)..ones I hadn't even thought of before...particularly about his ex and all that. I don't know much about divorce....even with my divorce, it was years ago and I didn't even live in the same part of the country as my husband when I filed for it, etc etc.......mine was very simple (mostly cuz he'd have killed me if I'd have made it tough).

I've always had this rule that I'd NEVER date someone unless they were divorced.....AND, that they needed to be divorced for at least 6-12 months....so that they really had some time to mourn the loss of their marriage and deal with most of the emotions and stuff. Why did I make an exception for this guy? Well, like I said.....from the very start (before I started to dig more), he made it seem that the divorce could be final any day, that it's just a matter of the courts being so backed up (which a lawyer I talked to DID confirm, although she said it usually takes 6-8 weeks to be final, not 3-4 months like he's told me). My greatest fear has been that maybe a divorce hasn't EVEN been filed for...but I have no way (short of demanding to see documents) of finding out for sure...I can only go on what he's told me.

Do I feel bad dating someone who's legally/in the eyes of God "still married"? YES....very much so......it goes against a lot of my beliefs....it goes against how I was raised......it goes against my beliefs on marriage.....so why am I doing it? Well, 80% of the guys I've met over the past 2.5 years have been in similar positions.....or there are the ones who ARE single, but they're freaking weird.....doesn't seem to be an abundance of stable, decent, unattached men around these days, not in my age group.

As for the 'cell phone' thing.....yes, I know what you're saying....yes it IS considerate that he doesn't want his phone ringing/having to talk 'shop' while he's over here.....but I look at it from a different perspective, I guess........I've known/dated jerks who did this same thing not because they wanted to be considerate, but because they had hunnies calling them and they didn't want me to know/ didn't want to get 'caught'...

And yes, I know that guys will often lay it on pretty thick in the beginning....tell you the things they think you want to hear....to 'win you over'......to charm you. I'm very cognizant of that, to the point of being my skeptical self......but this guy seems to be even more of a boob. At least the other dudes actually made some effort to charm me, for longer than 3 weeks. This guy acts like we're some old couple, already. Here's how an evening goes...

He comes over, kisses me, goes down into the family room, plops his butt on the couch, Lisa jumps up to make coffee (he loves coffee), he grabs the remote and watches whatever the hell he wants, in between 'gropes'.....do we have any real discussions on things? (life, politics, the weather, goals in life (personal), etc etc....NO.

It really burns my ass that we spent yesterday doing absolutely nothing. THis is a great city to live in.....and there's so much to explore....and I've always thought it would be great to have someone I cared about, to explore it with. Couples, usually, get out and do things. Go to a bookstore, go for a drink, go for a bite to eat, go for a drive, go for a coffee, go see a movie, go for a walk, go visit someone, etc. Hell, I can sit at home by myself just fine. When he's here, he seems restless and says he can't just sit and do nothing, that he needs to 'keep moving' (to the extent that on Christmas Day, he cleaned my entire kitchen because he couldn't sit still)....I don't know, it's not a big deal but it seems a little weird to me.

And seriously, I'm not a materialistic person....I don't expect to be wined and dined and taken to the symphony and stuff......I don't ask for much at all (nor do I expect all that much)....but even the biggest schmuck of a guy would take a gal out for dinner at least once during the 3 weeks they've been dating. So far, I've made dinner about 4 times which is no big deal.....but I guess he just doesn't believe in going out for dinner. Or else he's cheap. Or else he's broke. Or else I've given the impression that I'm so easy to please, that i don't ask for much, that he's really running with that?

Yesterday afternoon I was starving, hadn't eaten all day...I kept telling him I was hungry but didn't really have anything good/quick in the house to make....he just said he was going home shortly and he was going to make himself a sandwhich......finally I got up and figured I better make myself something......THEN he decided he'd have what I was having and he stayed (and rather enjoyed it). Why couldn't he have just suggested we go down to the local lounge/funky pub and grab something to eat?

And this 'sexual stuff' is really making me feel like he's just hanging around cuz he's trying to get laid...nothing more, nothing less. Sometimes I feel like i'm nothing more than a piece of meat (okay, that's a little extreme but you know what i mean)...he's awfully 'bold' for someone who sometimes can seem so shy.

A few things that bug me, are when he sticks his nose in where it doesn't belong..meaning, making comments about how I keep my house. For instance, he was fixing something in the bathroom last night, and he made some smart comment about all the stuff I keep under the sink/in the cupboard....Yes, I have a lot of different kinds of shampoos, lotions, tampons, cleaning stuff, etc...so what? It's not all over the place...it's none of his freaking business. And apparently he thinks my kitchen is too cluttered......let me say, I HATE clutter..but I have a kitchen that doesn't have many cupboards, no pantry, only 3 drawers......I don't have enough room for everything.....so big fricken hairy deal.....how is that any concern of his? On Saturday when he cleaned my kitchen after breakfast (I was showering and getting ready and he was 'keeping busy'), he rearranged a few things.......making me feel like I don't know how to organize and keep my home. Excuse me?

Then a couple weeks ago, we were out shopping for xmas tree decorations......I came across a really funky bath mat that would go well in both of my bathrooms......one was $30, the other was $20.....I bought a few other things, nothing major....the bill came to $94. He kept commenting about how scary it was, the way I shop. Made quite a deal about it......it's my freaking money, buddy.....and even if i married ya (being hypothetical here), I'd be working and making good money and don't worry, I wouldn't spend yours)....

I wouldn't dream of going to his home and snooping through cupboards and organizing things. He seems bold in this regard. Yeah, I do have a lot of stuff.....but that's my business and my house is extremely neat and tidy and clean. Makes me feel like he's comparing my housekeeping abilities to his ex wife or something.......I mean, who ELSE could he compare mine to? This isn't a freaking competition. I am me, take me or leave me. This is my home, not yours. It's my money to spend, not yours.

Last night I laid in bed and decided I should try and compare his good qualities to the ones I'm not crazy about......he definitely has some good ones, and he's a good person......but there seems to be so much other sh*t to deal with here, and I think I'm just far too sensitive of a person to be in this picture........there's too much uncertainty (his divorce situation).....the fact that it's only been 3 weeks and he's no longer even trying to 'court me' (that only lasted the first week)..the fact that I feel like the biggest reason he likes me is cuz he wants to get laid.....so much other crap. Something just doesn't feel right.......

Thank you both for your thoughts and feedback......going to give it some long hard thought. And Tony, I'm really TRYING not to be loony about all this, seriously....but I'm not getting any younger and I'm trying so hard to make sure I don't repeat past mistakes....trying to hard to make sure I take a really good and honest look at the 'big picture' before totally giving my heart away.....i'm trying to be so careful because i know how hard I fall/how attached I can get....I'm trying to go into this with both eyes open.

L
 
Old 27th December 2001, 3:30 PM   #11
Laurynn
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Tony, more......

Tony and everyone, thanks a million for being here for me....I can't tell you how much I appreciate having you all to 'vent' to.......and I so very much appreciate the time you all take to wade through my novel-length ramblings and respond. I must come across as a whackjob but I'm really not (lol).

Just doing housework and thinking more about things. He hasn't called yet today (said he was only going to work til noon) so maybe he's p*ssed that I didn't answer the phone last night when he called at nearly 1am. The email I'd sent him was just a brief one, thanking him for such a nice Christmas....it was probably one of the nicest ones I've had in many years. Anyway....he didn't even bother to respond to it (maybe he didn't read it? though I told him to check his email when he got home)...which is sorta weird for him. Anyway, whatever.

I did make it clear to him last week (and I was being very truthful) that if after 3 months he still wasn't divorced, I wouldn't be able to continue w/ the relationship......that I've been down that agonizing and frustrating road before and I don't deserve to go there again......he became quite 'quiet' and it wasn't like I was giving him some kind of ultimatum, I was just being honest. He lead me to believe from the start that everything was worked out and that it wouldn't take long ...but that doesn't seem to be the case now...so who the hell knows what's going on. He seems so vague about things....either because he doesn't know or maybe it's that he does know but knows I'd be upset to know that nothing's really happening.

And yes, he's more than free to date other people and leave my house and go somewhere else..fine and dandy...but then get out of my life because that's not my style. Yes, it's only been 3 weeks, that's not a long time but I'm a one man woman and I expect a one woman man......

There's something else I find very strange......he has this obsession with washing his clothes, and doing housework in general. He claims to only have 2 pairs of jeans. So if he stays overnight, he makes this big deal that he has to drive 30 minutes all the way home to wash his jeans....some weird assed line about how they get baggy after he wears them and how the denim rubs on his hips and irritates his skin..weirdest damn thing I've ever heard in my life. Or yesterday he made this big deal out of having to get home so that he can wash his kid's bedding......he won't be getting them til next week..but he says he doesn't like to leave it til the last minute, til they're "there" because then they go out and do stuff and they come home late and their bedding is still in the wash. What the hell? He gets them for 2 days, every 2 weeks.....what's the big deal? He says he never washed their bedding 2 weeks ago and that's why he MUST do it now (um, I clearly recall him telling me 2 weeks ago that he DID their bedding, cuz I remember thinking what a good Dad he was/how most guys don't think of washing their bedding)....so he lied?

He spent much of yesterday going on and on about all this stuff he had to do at home...painting, cleaning his (spotless) house, the kid's laundry, bla bla...making me feel like I was taking up his precious time...but what does he do? He sits there on my couch all day and does nothing......I was just telling him "well go already, if you have things to do, just go and do them then"......he was almost making me feel guilty for ?keeping him there at my house...like I was getting in the way of all this stuff he had to do.

I've seen him come here after work....stay for a bit.....go to something he has to do (work related), then drive allllll the way to his house to pick up some clothes or wash some jeans, then drive all the way home. To make a long post slightly shorter, it's almost like he's always looking for excuses to get back home.......but they're pretty freakin' lame excuses.

The other night, we had to drive all the way to his house cuz he said he had to feed his cats...so we get there and I had to REMIND him to feed his cats.......he talked to his kids on the phone and put a few dishes in the dishwasher.....we drove all the way there for that? Does he have some sort of emotional tie with his house? Does he get homesick or something? Does he miss his ex wife and need a little 'fix' so he has all these weird excuses as to why he needs to drive across the city for some lame reason to go there (yet come back here???)

Sometimes he'll say something while we're talking..mostly joking, and I won't really understand what he's saying..so I'll ask him to explain what he means and he'll be a little condescending and tell me to "relax"..or that I'm too uptight.....No, that's not it.....it's that I just don't understand if he's being a smart ass or if he's actually making a point about something. Aside from what it appears here (my long worrisome posts), I'm a pretty laid-back person..or have become this way as I've gotten older....I try not to take things so personally and to just blow a lot of things off rather than making a big deal out of them.....I've come a long way in this regard........

Oh I don't know, I guess I'm just rambling here. Sorry. Either this guy doesn't know a lot about how to 'court' someone, or his heart's not in it (but his p*cker surely is)......I'm very flattered that he's so physically attracted to me but do I feel special? Not really. I sometimes just feel like a piece of meat.....a conquest.....a sexual challenge....a place to go to get a good cup of coffee......b**bs to grope.......we act like some old couple who can't keep their hands off each other. Maybe this is all part of the reason his wife left....maybe she just didn't feel very special and she grew frustrated and figured she was missing a lot from him. He's not really one to share his feelings ....

Something that doesn't seem right....when we go to bed at night (when he stays here, which hasn't been much lately due to having his kids, which is fine with me)...he's not one to snuggle or cuddle.....we kiss and fool around a little, he then rolls over and it's as if I'm not even there. In the morning, does he roll over and give me a hug and say "good morning"? No. Not a lot of affection there..and if it's not there now, I doubt it will be there in time. He's only affectionate when he's groping me (that's not affection, that's hormones).

Well, I sound like a freaking whiner and complainer, and I'm sorry....I don't mean to be this way but I'm just trying to make sense of all this. I've spent so many years of my life with 'the wrong guy' and life is so short, I don't want to waste any more time........

I do care about him a lot but I do have some reservations about things.....and I have to figure out whether it's just me being a goof or whether I have legitimate reservations.

If you made it this far, God Bless ya!

L
 
Old 27th December 2001, 7:51 PM   #12
Rachel
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Jumping in too fast

Hi Laurynn;

Remember me? The one who suffered through the horrible breakup last December. I can't tell you how much I needed everyone's support. And now I am dating a wonderful guy.... but I went through hell to get here.

Here's what I think:

1. STOP analyzing.

2.Stop OVER analyzing. You think you have no control over it, BUT YOU DO. it is very very destructive. If serves NO purpose. Take things for they are.

3. Maybe you have "skipped" the dating and jumped into a relationship. It seems to me, that you haven't had a real DATE with this guy.

Maybe since its closer to the weekend, you can ask him what special plans he's made for you....If he suggests coming over, you can say, you don't feel like staying in, and you'd like him to TAKE YOU OUT....

In general, I don't think there's too much wrong with this guy. He may be a bit obsessive compulsive, but hey, who's perfect. Accept that as a fact, and don't take it personal when he re-arranges you stuff.

Maybe you could spend more time at HIS place.

You need to DATE this guy much more often, before sinking into the relationship thing. Talk about it with him.

Good luck
 
Old 28th December 2001, 12:47 AM   #13
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My gut feeling

From reading a lot of what you have said in these posts is that you simply need to back off for a while. You need to stop having him stay over...for your sake and his.

There seems to be so much going on in your and his minds right now that you both could not possibly think straight to foster a healthy, loving relationship. I think that may explain why he has become flirtatious and groping you all the time.

You guys need some breathing room from each other to just absorb some of the good and bad moments and reflect on how things could be improved by each experience. Right now you are simply in each others faces and are stuck. Consider this, he is now focussed on the only challenge that remains..that being having sex with you.

At this early stage he should still be focussed on courting you in a romantic manner (as Tony said) and learning more about you. The thrill will go real quick if you continue this way, but I think things are still early enough that if you back off a bit and see him 3-4 times a week without sleepovers you guys can keep the spark going and learn some healthy things about each other.

I don't think he has much wrong with him, I think he has a ton of pressure and juggling responsibilities to deal with right now. If there is any concern, it may be that he is clinging to you a bit. By backing off you can find out whether he can take it like a man and still want to see you (hence he is not clinging), or that he cries like a baby and annoys the heck out of you.

Oliver
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Old 28th December 2001, 3:19 AM   #14
Laurynn
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*eerie* update

In the later afternoon, my guy called me...it was the darndest conversation.....it was nice. He asked me about my day, and asked specific things that proved he obviously 'remembers' things I tell him (bonus points there)....he then asked if I'd like to go see a movie tonight (Thurs night), then go get something to eat afterwards. I was sorta gettin' the heebie jeebies.....almost made me wonder if he'd read my posts here, somehow? (my complaining that we spend a lot of time here at my house).

He was really sweet when he got here, very attentive, not all grope-ish...very polite and considerate (not that he's not usually like this, for the most part). We went to see "Vanilla Sky" (strange movie).....then he took me to the bank, store, etc......he then took us to Home Depot to get some salt for my icy sidewalks (which I thought was really sweet...it's so nice to have a guy who thinks of things like this, I realllly appreciated that).....

We came back here to my place and we decided to order pizza....watched some TV and he was so nice......didn't have his hands all over me like usual. He left to go home around 1am and has already made plans to take me to a really cool place tomorrow night (the Calgary Tower).....that's really sweet that he's thinking ahead like that, I appreciate that, too.

I could tell he was tired when he was about to leave and I asked him why he stayed so late, that he should have gone home early cuz he was so tired....his response, "I stayed cuz I like ya"....

He was like a different person tonight......I can't see how he'd have read my posts here (or even knows about this place)....but it seems more than coincidental that he'd be so different, but I'm not complaining.

Despite everything, he really is a nice guy....and I know my family sure agree......he's polite, not the least bit conceited, down to earth, shy at times and he does have a good heart. I wish things (the divorce thing) were simpler...but I guess I can't change that..will just have to see how things go and decide from there what I'll do/where we go in the future.......I do really care very much about him.....he makes me feel good...he makes me laugh....and when he walks in the door, he does make me feel like he's really happy to see me. Guess sometimes I just let myself get overwhelmed.

Anyhoo, I thank those of you who responded for your advice and thoughts on all this.......will definitely be taken into consideration.

Hugs,

Laurynn
 
Old 28th December 2001, 5:46 AM   #15
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Re: *eerie* update

Yeah, I'm nice once in a while myself. I am really happy for you and I hope this lasts...I really do. But if this relationship is going to be an emotional roller coaster ride for you, up one day and down the other it won't be worth it.

The next time he starts acting weird, be sure to talk to him and get to the bottom of it.

You don't want a guy with a blood sugar or alcohol problem or a mood disorder. In reading all your posts, that's exactly what it looks like here. Yes, he could be an alcholic even if you don't see him ever drink. The way you describe his actions, before and tonight, is very typical of the mood swings of an alcoholic. When his time is unaccounted for, such as the other night, he could easily have stopped at a bar.

I get real mad when somebody takes one of my friends for a big roller coaster ride. I don't like it. You don't need somebody whose moods are unpredictable, who one day is cold and preoccupied and the next is sweet as hell.

All this may very well have to do with his divorce. If that's the case, expect more crap in between wonderful days like this until the divorce is final and he's over the pressure. But instead of seeking our advice, just print out what we've written already and write "ditto" at the bottom for future times.

I will say a special prayer that he was just having a few bad days when his behavior was disturbing to you and that most of the time he will be like tonight. Let's hope so. I like to be positive. I would really be happy for this to work for you.

It pisses me off when people try to make up for their crappiness with days of incredible sweetness. People have done that to me before and I don't buy off on it anymore. A crappy day is a crappy day and it doesn't get cancelled by future nice ones.

Will your REAL boyfriend please stand up???
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