My Mom Ruined my Relationship with my Sister

[venusianx13]

My sister and I used to be really close, in fact, we were best friends. It has become apparent to me, though, that our relationship has deteriorated because my mother has filled her head with a lot of very negative ideas about me. If my mom and I were in the midst of a conflict, she'd run to my sister and tell her her side. I've put the pieces together over time, and this explains why I have virtually NO relationship with my sister anymore.

 

I have distanced myself from my mother a great deal. I simply cannot have patience for her dramatics anymore. I won't tolerate it. I don't ever confide in her, either, because similarly, she tells my sister everything, but with her own spin on it.

 

I feel very alone in my family. I have reached a point of emotional exhaustion. I want very badly to have a good relationship with my sister again, and I fear that when my parents are gone, my sister and I will be strangers. I reach out to her, invite her to do things, call her, and so forth, but she never does the same in return and it hurts.

 

Any thoughts on how I can improve my relationship with my sister? I miss her...

[Calvin's wagon]

Hi Venusianx!

 

I'm sorry to hear about this situation. To a big degree, I can relate to your fear of becoming a stranger with your sister... And I can feel your hurt...

 

Can I perhaps ask you firstly a couple of questions, that might help me and others give you advice?

 

1. is your sister older/younger?

2. can you describe what your communication with your sister is like now? what happens when you try to talk to her about "serious" things, your, her problems, etc.?

3. do you do any non-serious stuff together, like going to the movies, jogging etc.?

4. do you live in the same city as her?

5. how long ago do you think this significant gap started/showed?

6. can you perhaps give us some examples of how/with which ideas does your mom talk to your sister about you?

7. what is your sister like otherwise when it comes to dealing with problems? and how does she feel in your family?

8. is (or was in the past) your sister open to the idea that maybe the relationships in your family weren't the best, that within the family all you had certain problems that weren't normal? Do you think she might be willing to read some literature etc. on family relationships, which would perhaps open her eyes, for example to the fact that it's not normal nor healthy that a mother tells one child how bad etc. the other children are?

9. When you say "I reach out to her, invite her to do things, call her, and so forth, but she never does the same in return and it hurts" - does it mean that she doesn't reply/come, or that she never shows the initiative to call you etc.?

10. If I may ask, what's your and her relationship with your father?

 

 

I hope I'm not too intrusive. Any answer will be helpful:) I'm sending you my best wishes!

Edited March 6, 2013 by Calvin's wagon

[venusianx13]

Hi Venusianx!

 

I'm sorry to hear about this situation. To a big degree, I can relate to your fear of becoming a stranger with your sister... And I can feel your hurt...

 

Can I perhaps ask you firstly a couple of questions, that might help me and others give you advice?

 

1. is your sister older/younger? She's younger than I am by 2.5 years.

2. can you describe what your communication with your sister is like now? We chat online once a week, maybe, and it is always initiated by me. All phone calls and invites are initiated by me as well.

what happens when you try to talk to her about "serious" things, your, her problems, etc.?

She's pretty rational and objective...gives good advice in the moment, but is pretty introverted about her own struggles. I ask her about work and such, and she'll tell me a little bit about how it's going, but only when I ask. (Work seems to be her main issue these days as she's a teacher, but has had trouble finding a real teaching job).

3. do you do any non-serious stuff together, like going to the movies, jogging etc.? We do dinner and drinks together every few months or so...at this point, that's about it.

4. do you live in the same city as her? No, she lives about 45 minutes away, but I frequent a town near where she lives often, and invite her to join me sometimes, but she usually declines.

5. how long ago do you think this significant gap started/showed? Well, probably since she was in college (4 or 5 years ago)

6. can you perhaps give us some examples of how/with which ideas does your mom talk to your sister about you? If my mom and I ever have a clash or opinion or falling out, she tells my sister, but puts a spin on it to make herself sound very victimized. If my mother catches wind of a problem I'm having, even if it's a conjecture on her part, she tells my sister. I don't share things with my mother anymore because I cannot trust her, and she is very judgmental and can be incredibly demeaning.

7. what is your sister like otherwise when it comes to dealing with problems? and how does she feel in your family? My sister is rather introverted. I consider myself an introvert as well, but my emotions are difficult for me to hide. My sister used to become reclusive when she had something going on.

8. is (or was in the past) your sister open to the idea that maybe the relationships in your family weren't the best, that within the family all you had certain problems that weren't normal? Do you think she might be willing to read some literature etc. on family relationships, which would perhaps open her eyes, for example to the fact that it's not normal nor healthy that a mother tells one child how bad etc. the other children are?

I don't know if she'd go so far as to read about our family dynamic...I've known my mother tells her things, and I've tried to talk with her about it, but I don't want to make her feel like I'm forcing her to choose sides, which is usually what she accuses me of. When I am with her, I just try to be good to her and show her that I'm not a horrible person, as my mom portrays me to be at times.

9. When you say "I reach out to her, invite her to do things, call her, and so forth, but she never does the same in return and it hurts" - does it mean that she doesn't reply/come, or that she never shows the initiative to call you etc.? She'll accept invitations if she is able, but she won't reciprocate invites. If I want to visit her, I feel like I have to invite myself over. I call her sometimes because I miss her, but she never, ever calls me.

10. If I may ask, what's your and her relationship with your father?

For me, it's rocky. Growing up, my dad was pretty harsh with me. He was part of a generation that was hit (not just spanked, but belted, etc) for punishment. That is how he disciplined me growing up, but strangely enough, I had a pretty good relationship with my dad as a young girl. It was when I was older that I resented him and his temper. I began standing up for myself. I think my sister was spanked once or twice growing up, but not nearly like I was. For her, now, the relationship is just fine. She doesn't see his anger issues anymore because she lives about an hour away from our parents' house. But yes, he has a very, very short temper. And I realize people cannot reason when they are angry, but he becomes downright crazy. The times in between, though, he's way more down to earth than my mother. Strangely enough.

 

 

 

I hope I'm not too intrusive. Any answer will be helpful:) I'm sending you my best wishes!

 

 

Thanks, CW. I realize this situation is pretty complicated...I wish it weren't. Thanks for your help with it.

[Calvin's wagon]

Hey:)

 

I don't have time at the moment to write a longer response, but I'd just like to ask a couple of questions regarding what you wrote:

 

1.) "I don't know if she'd go so far as to read about our family dynamic...I've known my mother tells her things, and I've tried to talk with her about it, but I don't want to make her feel like I'm forcing her to choose sides, which is usually what she accuses me of. When I am with her, I just try to be good to her and show her that I'm not a horrible person, as my mom portrays me to be at times. "

 

When you say that "she" accuses you of forcing her to choose sides, do you mean that your sister accuses you of that, and not your mom? (I just want to be certain that I got it right)

 

2.) Has your sister ever shown you by words that she thinks you're a "horrible person"? Or that she thinks that the things you do (and that your mother dislikes) are problematic, weird etc.?

 

3.) Have you ever asked/talked to your sister about this situation, the growing gap, your mom's actions etc.? Judging from the above quoted part, I gather your sister acknowledged that there's a bad situation, but maybe it would help us to hear more about how she reacts if/when you have tried talking to her about it.

 

For example, have you ever asked her sth like "Sometimes I feel like we're growing apart. Do you feel like that too?"?

 

4.) I'm really sorry to hear that about your father... From what I've experienced in my family (and it wasn't nearly as bad) and what I've seen/read, I understand how this type of behaviour has a deep deep impact on children in adult life.

 

5.) "but I frequent a town near where she lives often, and invite her to join me sometimes, but she usually declines."

 

Does she usually give you some sort of reason, or is it just a plain no or no answer?

 

6.) Have you ever (recently) asked your sister for advice regarding some of your problems? Do you think she might be willing to give you advice, or would she see it as a burden? Because I'm thinking that maybe this way:

- she'd hear about your problems directly from you,

- and, more importantly, maybe that would bring you closer together, and maybe she'd feel more invested in your life etc.? I'm just thinking out loud at the moment...

 

7.) Has your sister always been so introvert? To the outside world, to you...? Even when you were growing up and were best friends?

 

8.) Do you perhaps know what is her social life like now? You've mentioned that she's preoccupied with her work. Does she socialize a lot with other people etc., or is she more reclusive to others as well?

 

---

 

Ok, so much for now. I hope that next time I'll be able to give you some more advice and not just ask so many questions... Best wishes

[venusianx13]

Hey:)

 

I don't have time at the moment to write a longer response, but I'd just like to ask a couple of questions regarding what you wrote:

 

1.) "I don't know if she'd go so far as to read about our family dynamic...I've known my mother tells her things, and I've tried to talk with her about it, but I don't want to make her feel like I'm forcing her to choose sides, which is usually what she accuses me of. When I am with her, I just try to be good to her and show her that I'm not a horrible person, as my mom portrays me to be at times. "

 

When you say that "she" accuses you of forcing her to choose sides, do you mean that your sister accuses you of that, and not your mom? (I just want to be certain that I got it right)

 

Yes, my sister accuses me, in a way, of pitting her against my mom which is absolutely not what I'm trying to accomplish.

 

2.) Has your sister ever shown you by words that she thinks you're a "horrible person"? Or that she thinks that the things you do (and that your mother dislikes) are problematic, weird etc.?

 

No, not in the same way my mom conveys disapproval of me. It's shown in a more vague way, is the only way I can explain it. I just chalk it up to my mom having gotten her on the same wavelength as her.

 

3.) Have you ever asked/talked to your sister about this situation, the growing gap, your mom's actions etc.? Judging from the above quoted part, I gather your sister acknowledged that there's a bad situation, but maybe it would help us to hear more about how she reacts if/when you have tried talking to her about it.

 

For example, have you ever asked her sth like "Sometimes I feel like we're growing apart. Do you feel like that too?"?

 

Maybe once a year I will mention it to her. I did recently, actually, which is what motivated me to write my original post about it. She pretty much told me (via text message) that she did not feel such was the case, was sorry I felt that way, and closed the conversation. That's usually how it goes.

 

4.) I'm really sorry to hear that about your father... From what I've experienced in my family (and it wasn't nearly as bad) and what I've seen/read, I understand how this type of behaviour has a deep deep impact on children in adult life.

 

Thanks... it's not that I was "beaten", I hate to make it sound that way, but it was definitely harsh and a bit scary. Like I said, it caused me to resent my dad later on.

 

5.) "but I frequent a town near where she lives often, and invite her to join me sometimes, but she usually declines."

 

Does she usually give you some sort of reason, or is it just a plain no or no answer?

I'll ask her ahead of time, and she'll say she'll get back to me, but she doesn't. I'm not really sure if she's just busy or doesn't want to.

 

6.) Have you ever (recently) asked your sister for advice regarding some of your problems? Do you think she might be willing to give you advice, or would she see it as a burden? Because I'm thinking that maybe this way:

- she'd hear about your problems directly from you,

- and, more importantly, maybe that would bring you closer together, and maybe she'd feel more invested in your life etc.? I'm just thinking out loud at the moment...

I go to my sister with things sometimes, but not much anymore. I often felt I was burdening her. And now with this dynamic she has with my mom, I'm a bit afraid to. I'd like to open up to her more...and I would like for her to open up to me as well.

7.) Has your sister always been so introvert? To the outside world, to you...? Even when you were growing up and were best friends?

Growing up, yes, my sister was one to contain her emotions. She'd go into "quiet mode" when something was bothering her. However, she was not shy with people, for the most part. She was more outgoing than I was. In other words, she was well-liked, but never wore her emotions on her sleeve.

8.) Do you perhaps know what is her social life like now? You've mentioned that she's preoccupied with her work. Does she socialize a lot with other people etc., or is she more reclusive to others as well?

She seems to have things going on, socially. She'll tell me she's busy (part of her excuse much of the time) but I'll see that she's gotten together with girlfriends and such relatively frequently and I end up feeling bad about it.

---

 

Ok, so much for now. I hope that next time I'll be able to give you some more advice and not just ask so many questions... Best wishes

 

 

Thanks again...I hope I've explained things adequately. I really appreciate the attention you're giving this situation of mine.

[pcplod]

The short answer is "No". This is because it is down to your sister, not you. If your sister was a sensible and responsible person, she would want to hear your story, but I assume from the gist of your story she hasn't.

 

You do have to remember that you are only related by genes. She is ONLY your sister, not your friend. Friendship is not something that comes by way of inheritance, it comes by way of actually caring and being interested. You don't have to be genetically-related to achieve that.

 

About the only thing I have in common with my brother is that we share a mother. I rarely contact him because we have no interests in common and have a completely different philosophy on life. He only ever contacts me whenever he wants something practical from me. I am completely accommodating of that. I have no real regrets. It is what it is.

 

You may well be grieving over something that it might be in your best interests not to.

[Dragonfruit]

No offense, but she sounds to me like she is a rat, turning on you in order to get mommy's approval. If I were you, I would make some of your good friends your sisters, for life, and leave that dysfunctional mess at a great distance.

 

When you feel like you have to repeatedly explain that you are not actually an evil witch to someone- and they try to shush you but believe you actually are an evil witch- then I think it is time for them to take a long hike off a short pier, regardless of who they are. I did not hear that she shushes your mother when your mother twists your words and actions into inaccurate ugliness. She has chosen her side and she is an adult. That is on her and nobody else, imo. Trust me, it doesn't get better with time.

 

Also, harsh whippings, scary whippings, yes I do think that is abuse, regardless of what your father came from. Abusive families often focus it on one child (and it sounds like you've gotten both the physical and emotional), whereas neglectful ones focus it on all of them. It appears she has sold you out and bought in with your parents, she is one of them. Maybe they are the kind of family who needs a card at Christmas and such, if that, that much of a distance. I do not think you need to be where you are not treated with love and respect. If they mistreat you then they do not deserve to have you. Just my opinion, and good luck to you.

Edited March 9, 2013 by Dragonfruit

[Dragonfruit]

Also... abusive people need someone to pick on. Don't be surprised, if you back out, that mother turns on sister. Maybe then she'll see it more fairly herself.

[Nyla]

Mothers who are dysfunctional like to pit siblings against each other.

 

My mom and my eldest brother love to gossip about me behind my back.

 

My eldest bro is a mama's boy who runs to my mom with all of his business, as well as mine.

 

Now I hardly talk to him because I want to keep some things private.

 

Be careful what you share with your sister. She needs acceptance from your mother and will stop at nothing to get it.

[Calvin's wagon]

Hi Venusianx:)

 

My advice, having read all the posts in this thread, would be the following (feel free to disregard anything):

 

I'd try to give your sister (in person!) a package/letter, in which you'd explain your worries about the two of you growing apart. I'd try to make the letter as little as possible about your mom, and as much as possible about how you miss the times when you were best friends etc., and how much you appreciate having her in your life, spending time with her, giving and receiving advice, etc.

 

I'd also include two books in the package - I've mentioned them before and I almost always recommend it to people, because they've really opened my eyes. Toxic parents (Susan Forward - you can download it for free and print it, if it's cheaper than buying it) and Families and how to survive them (by Skynner). I think they're not so expensive on amazon or other sites like that.

 

In the letter, I'd ask your sister to read them whenever she will have time/be willing to. I'd tell her that you've read them (read them first:)) and that they really helped you - I think this will make it easier for her to read.

 

I'd also make sure to state explicitly that you are not blaming her and that you are not trying to "turn her" against her mom, and that that is the point of those books and what your trying to do - that there wouldn't be any "sides" in your family where she'd have to chose. And that you think these books would be really helpful in you two becoming closer like you used to be.

 

So basically, try a neutral/upbeat approach, but give her the tools she needs to realize what's going on. After that, it's up to her, you can't make "the thirsty people drink water"...

 

In the end of the letter, I'd tell her that unless she wants to speak about it, that you won't give her any more literature or do anything that would make her think that you're trying to turn her against her mom, and that you'll go on like you two did in the past (small talk, etc.)

 

And I'd make sure to point that whenever she'll need you and will want to be be a bigger part in your life, if she will want to talk to you about anything, that you will be happy to be there for her, because you love her and don't want to lose her.

 

 

---

 

I know it's long and complicated, but I'd do this, because then I'd know I did "everything" I could without risking pushing her away too much, and that she had what she needed to realize what's going on.

 

If you just give her the package, she will be able to read the letter/books when she feels like it/safe, and she will be able to return to them at anytime, even if she will initially be reluctant to talk to you about it or think about.

 

(Because her refusal to think about it, talk to you about it etc. are all part of defense mechanisms, with which she's trying to protect herself from realising what horrible things your parents have been doing to both of you. And it takes time and effort to recognize and "ignore" those defense mechanisms and to work on the issues.)

 

And after you give her the package, I'd go on as usual, like you did until now. Stay in her life, even if at the moment it means low-key, without spending much time, without telling her of your problems etc. Make her music cd-s, nice birthday surprises etc. Because by being in her life, it will be easier for her to realize and to change...

 

---

 

If you want, I'm sure we'd all be willing to give our thoughts on how to phrase the letter, if you decide to write it.

 

---

 

Have you talked to your therapist about her? What could be done? Maybe ask your sister to help you by coming to one of your sessions? I think it might be to early for that, but perhaps you and your therapist will find a way...

 

---

 

Ok, I have to go now, but I'll try to catch up today or tomorrow.

 

Best wishes:)

[venusianx13]

Thanks for everyone's replies. I appreciate the outside opinions as well as advice.

 

CW - Thank you, I will check out those books. I had forgotten to look for them, but I definitely need/want to read them myself. And then if one or both strike a chord with me in regards to my family's dynamic, I will ask my sister to read them. She may or may not want to, I'm not sure.

 

I love my sister and don't want to lose her. Yes, my mom is toxic and even my therapist has said this. As for my sister, I see that my mother has certainly gotten to her (in regards to pitting her against me, in a way), but I still see her as being a good person. The thing is, I've been good to my sister, and really wish she'd see who I am through MY actions, rather than through my mom's words.

 

When I do see my sister and brother in law, we have fantastic times together, though few and far between. I asked them over for dinner, and we are planning something for just after Easter. My boyfriend is also quite fond of them, though he understands how I feel in regards to what is happening with my sister, and is very supportive of me.

 

With the way my relationships within my family have ended up, I have often wished to just LEAVE and start over somewhere. I wouldn't do it, though, because of my son, and secondly, my boyfriend. He wants a family with me and will be moving the relationship forward in a next few months. He is also looking forward to being a step-dad. I'd like for that to be my fresh start. I don't know what will happen with my mom and my sister, but I'd like to hope for positive changes (though I wouldn't bet on it).

[Calvin's wagon]

Hey:)

 

I was glad to read your last post, it seemed to radiate a lot of (careful) optimism, positive energy and determination in it!

 

I really understand that often you wished you could just leave! (I've had that wish at times). Sometimes things really get so tough in life, but I'm glad you have such great things in your life, especially your son and your boyfriend. And I think it will be a positive fresh start!

 

It is important to bear in mind that you have complete freedom and power in determining the boundaries you want to have with your family members!

 

 

I hope that sessions with your therapist, prayers, those books (or other books that your therapist/other posters on this forum would suggest) and other things will help you gain wisdom, calm and strength you need.

 

 

My advice (to emphasize again) is to give your sister all the "tools" necessary to save herself from her mom's negative influence (even though she's an adult and has responsibility for herself, she's still very much a victim of toxic parents), without overwhelming her or making her feeling pressured.

 

For that she will need, in my opinion:

- information necessary to realize the toxicity of the situation (books, internet links etc.)

- information about help, which will enable her to seek help easily once she starts thinking about help (for example, perhaps your therapist could suggest a good therapist in the town your sis lives, and you could enclose the name/phone number of that therapist -> that way, when she will start thinking about talking to someone, she won't be able to sabotage herself by saying "I don't know which therapist is good, I rather not risk etc.", and that way if she decides, it will be easier for her to get good help.). Also perhaps some links/phone numbers of free phone lines for people who want to talk about their issues.

- time&space for her to open her mind to this (hopefully somewhere along the line her husband will give her a gentle nudge as well...).

 

 

After presenting her with the tools, it's important for you to remain present in her life, insofar is it doesn't become too hard for you or starts to have too great of an adverse affect on your life (your health, relationship with your son, boyfriend etc.), try to do what you have been doing so far, i.e. try to spend time with her (and brother in law), make her feel loved and wanted,..., without pressuring her to change etc., so she will have a feeling that the doors are open for her if/when she decides to change sth about herself, about her relationship with you!

 

Again, I advise you to talk to your therapist, maybe some other people as well, check the internet etc., before deciding how to proceed.

 

 

I really hope it helps. My mom hasn't had almost any contact with her side of the family since 10+ years ago, because in a way her mom and sister (especially sister) conspired against her after the death of her dad (inheritance etc.). She tried to re-establish contact several times, but to no avail... So I know a little bit about this, and that's why I'm carefully optimistic and think there is much hope for you and your sister!

 

Best wishes:)

Edited March 11, 2013 by Calvin's wagon
bolded part