Tough Decisions

[cal2692]

The situation: Seperated for a few months from my wife after being asked to leave, once again, during one of her bipolar manic eppisodes. My 18 year old daughter was asked to leave as well. I currently reside at my dad's house and my daughter stays at her sister's house with her family of four. My daughter says she will never return home with her mother because of all the drama. It is noteworthy that my daughter just started college this year and family income is limited. Also she is not ready to be on her own. Also she has a history of being a "cutter". My wife says she really wants me and my daughter back again and wants us back home. I can't say if I feel the same or not. I am on the fence as far as the future of our marriage. I am supposed to sign a year lease on a home for myself and daugher on Dec. 1st. This will be a huge financial strain on me due to the fact that I will now have a rent payment plus all the other living expenses. I also pay to help my wife as well. My "married" house is paid for thank God so I just help with the lights, water and gas. My wife is on disability with limited income. I still love my wife, we have known eachother for 25 years and married for 23 of those years. We have a long history of back and forths. I leave come back leave and come back. Now if I decide to come back, my daughter will not. I asked my daughter what she would do if I did go back and she said she would be upset and she would feel betrayed by me, thus leaving her out in the cold. I know it is probably best to stay seperated. But I also feel like I want to give our marriage a chance. My wife thinks that if i decide to sign that lease it will be the end and our marriage will have no hope. I feel if I don't, my daughter will feel betrayed and other close family members will think I am weak and roll their eyes at the situation. I know I am not supposed to worry about what other people think, but damn...it is what it is. I know this is the short version but your thoughts would be appreciated.

[Mr. Lucky]

It's a mistake to put your daughter in the middle of your marital drama, effectively forcing her to pick sides. Not a healthy dynamic for any of you.

 

Can your daughter stay with your sister? Might be cheaper to help her with expenses than renting a separate place.

 

Regardless, this is Mom and Dad's problem and should be kept between them...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Marc878]

How many chances are you up to now??????

 

Do you leave every time she tells you to?

[Grumpybutfun]

This seems an easy decision....do what you discussed with your daughter until you divorce and sell the house. Split the profits and move on with your life without the drama. Your wife is abusive and not doing what she needs to do to manage her BPD if she is tossing you and your child out of your own house. There is a poster here named Downtown who knows more about this disorder so it might be valuable to check out some of his posts.

You are abandoning and betraying your child for your wife who kicks you out and makes life difficult for everyone. You will regret not using this opportunity to leave this terrible marriage. Maybe you think this so normal because you are easy going and think love is something you feel instead of do. Tossing your family out because you aren't managing your BPD is not love. If she loved you, she would be doing more to control her outbursts with professional help. It wouldn't hurt for you and your daughter to see a therapist to help you deal with your wife's illness and bad behavior. Im not sure why you want to stay...love does not hurt our children, man. Stop putting your wife's entitlement before your children's happiness and stability. You are a father and even though your children are young adults, they need you to shelter them from your wife's abusive behavior.

Good luck, and I hope you find some peace in your life,

Grumps

[qubist]

Look at this way, she kicked you and your daughter out of the house, now she wants you back and and not willing to take any excuse you either come back or divorce. That is called mental intimidating. most likely, she has been intimidating you for a long time knowing that you would cave in. She knows that you are afraid of loosing the marriage and knows how to push you button.

Let me tell you something, she needs you and the marriage more than what you think otherwise she would've divorced you long time ago. I bet she is the one threatening you with Divorce all the time.

You've been manipulated,but part of it it's your fault. Her BDP create a pressure and instead of addressing she lets it blow out of the weakest link which is you ( no pun intended) maybe not intentionality. But you have allowed her to do it.Stay strong and let her feel it too.

[PegNosePete]

Seperated for a few months from my wife after being asked to leave, once again

 

But I also feel like I want to give our marriage a chance.

How many chances have you given it so far?

How many more are you prepared to give it?

Seems like you're flogging a dead horse, to me.

[Downtown]

The situation: Separated for a few months from my wife after being asked to leave, once again, during one of her bipolar manic episodes.

Cal, I agree with Grumps that you should consider the substantial chance that your W has strong traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). If she actually has been diagnosed as having bipolar-1 disorder (BP-1), there is a 36% chance she also suffers from co-occurring BPD. Moreover, therapists have difficulty distinguishing between these two disorders in a 50-minute meeting held every week or two because it may take them two years to witness the dysfunctional behaviors you see all week long. It therefore is common for BPD to be misdiagnosed as "bipolar."

 

I mention this distinction because, whereas bipolar often can be treated quite successfully by swallowing a pill, BPD is very difficult to treat and medications will not make a dent in it. On top of all that, both BP and BPD are believed to be passed on to some extent through genetics. This means that, if your W has them, there is some risk you D may develop one or the other.

 

She has a history of being a "cutter."

Are you referring to your D or your W as "being a cutter"? I ask because the APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5) lists "self-harming behavior such as cutting" for only one disorder: BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). That is, of the 157 disorders listed in DSM-5, only BPD has "cutting" listed as a defining trait. Moreover, many studies have shown that self harm like cutting is strongly associated with BPD. A 2004 hospital study, for example, found that

Self-mutilating behavior is a symptom seen in both men and women with various psychiatric disorders, but

the majority of those who self-mutilate are women with borderline personality disorder

. This complex, maladaptive behavior is used by clients as a means of self-preservation and emotion regulation, and is often associated with childhood trauma.

See

J Psychosoc Nurs Ment Health Serv. 2004

.

We have a long history of back and forths. I leave come back leave and come back.

If your W has strong BPD traits, that repeated cycle of breakup/makeup is to be expected. BPDer relationships are notorious for having multiple breakups. A BPDfamily survey of about 460 such relationships found that nearly a fourth of them (23%) went through 10 or more complete breakup/makeup cycles BEFORE finally ending for good. About 40% of the BPDer relationships experienced at least six breakup/makeup cycles before ending. And 73% had three or more breakup/makeup cycles before finally ending. See "Results" at BPDfamily Breakup/Makeup Poll.

 

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

I join Grumps in suggesting that you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what you and your D have been dealing with. And, while you're looking for a good psychologist, I suggest you learn how to spot the warning signs for both disorders by reading about them.

 

An easy place to start reading is my post at 12 BPD/Bipolar Differences, which is based on my experiences with a bipolar-1 sufferer (my foster son) and a BPDer (my exW). If that description of BPD traits rings many bells, I would suggest you also check out my list of red flags at 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your W's or D's issues. Only a professional can determine whether the traits are so severe as to satisfy 100% of the criteria for having full-blown BPD or bipolar. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD and bipolar may help you avoid incurring or prolonging a very painful experience -- e.g., avoid taking her back and avoid running into the arms of another woman just like her. Take care, Cal.

[carhill]

Married 23 years and house is paid for? Nah, move back in, grit your teeth and plow through it, one way or another. Document, document, document.

 

Your daughter is an adult and free to do what she wants to, as are you.

 

Even if not considering a divorce, I'd get with a lawyer and understand exactly where your legal partnership stands and what impact your choices have on your life and life's work. There's zero you can control regarding your wife and, if she is mentally ill, it's next to impossible to care less than a mentally ill person cares about anything or anyone. Sure, she can care but that doesn't mean she will, and it can change at any moment, as it has in the past.

 

Gather up information, assess your options and move forward. Another separation as a fixit isn't IMO moving forward. Either rebuild the marriage as a team or end it as one party. Good luck and my sympathies.

[cal2692]

To clarify, yes it my daughter who is a cutter. She has been getting therapy as well as myself, but not until this year for me and 2 years for her. I hold myself responsible for her condition because I allowed her to remain in our toxic relationship. When I see her scars I almost loose it. It is very sad.

I do very much appreciate all the responses so far. QuIBIST you nailed me down to a T! You guys may have saved my life and my sanity. Thank you.

[jakrbbt]

Your staying or leaving is not, is NOT, going to cause anyone to cut themselves, hurt themselves, it won't even "cause" a divorce. (Because you'd be leaving an unhealthy, untenable situation, and it's that, not merely the fact that you sign a lease, that "causes" a divorce.) I'm glad your daughter is in college. Let her know her parents love her, your adult issues are yours, you and your mother are both going to do what you have to, and she (daughter) is still loved and supported. Tell her not to take your marriage onto her shoulders like Atlas.

 

It sounds like her mother has her feeling anxious, like unless mother has everything she thinks she needs, mother will literally die. That's not healthy for daughter, not fair, and it's also not true. What you can do is reassure her without criticizing her mother.

 

I would also consult a lawyer about the timeline of the move, if you move. And hard finances are better than toxic relationship.

 

Sounds like everyone's panicking. Your ex and daughter are very likely to be just fine if you move out. Your dilemma is partly illusory.

 

Your only decision is, what is a basically healthy and sane life for you. That's all you can do. Choose that one.

[turnera]

she has a history of being a "cutter".

 

I am supposed to sign a year lease on a home for myself and daugher on Dec. 1st. This will be a huge financial strain on me due to the fact that I will now have a rent payment plus all the other living expenses.

 

I still love my wife, we have known each other for 25 years and married for 23 of those years. We have a long history of back and forths. I leave come back leave and come back. Now if I decide to come back, my daughter will not. I asked my daughter what she would do if I did go back and she said she would be upset and she would feel betrayed by me, thus leaving her out in the cold.

Your daughter needs you. She has been SEVERELY damaged by having a mom like she has.

 

She needs you to put HER first for once. You can get back with your wife later, years later. Right now, your daughter needs stability and to know she is valued. If you move back, it will be a selfish choice and it will severely affect your daughter - for life.

 

Do the right thing.

[cal2692]

My daugher tells me she is looking forward to the move. She came with me to look at the rental. I am looking fwd to the move, more so now than ever. My gut instinct tells me I am doing the right thing. After discussing with my shrink and reading the plethora of advise given here. I am going to take this giant step off this cliff of life. I have no desire to pursue any equity of the married home. It used to belong to my wife's grandmother. When she passed, the family sold it to us. Im sure the home will be willed to our daughters in the end. That is if my wife doesnt do anything to compromise the free and clear property.

[qubist]

Your wife needs lot help. Hopefully she is getting some therapy. I believe the move is better for the 3 of you, it'll give your daughter the peace of mind she needs, it'll give a chance to break away from the abuse so you can work on yourself. It is also good for your wife too, she might not see it now, but she needs a reality check. Combined with therapy she can finally face her issues rather than put them all on you. She will be mad but she will come asking for you.

[cal2692]

One thing I am certain of. If you "poll the audience" you will generally get the right answers. My biggest regret is I should have done this early on. I cant believe I delt with all this for so long. The definition of insanity.....lies at its core with all this. I will continue to post my progress, feelings and concerns here as well as continue with my therapy. To be honest, I got more insight with this forum than I have with my therapist. But to be fair, my therapist is still in the info gathering stages with me. Again, thank all you all!

[Grumpybutfun]

You don't have to do this alone. There are always people here who have tons of life experience and give support. I'm glad you and your daughter are breaking free of this nightmare. I'm also glad you have a therapist.

Best,

G

 

 

Thanks @Downtown for the information....I knew if you saw this thread, you would come through.

[PegNosePete]

Im sure the home will be willed to our daughters in the end. That is if my wife doesnt do anything to compromise the free and clear property.

Such as remarrying? What if she remarries a man with a kid, puts the house into joint names, and then your ex dies before her new husband? The new husband will inherit the house and will it solely to his own kids. Your daughters will get nothing.