What is the order of steps for separation/divorce

[condit]

I am married for 21 years, older kids 16 and 18. Many of my needs are not being met (social, physical, best friend, etc.). I will say that I may not be meeting all of her needs either although she never talks about "wanting" more talking, intimacy, help(?), other).

 

I have thought about talking about my "loneliness" but the more I think about it the more I don't really want to ask her to change who she has become. She is not interested in appearance, she does not have any real girfriends that she visits with, she does not share my fun and interests, and she really has been all about the kids for many years. She also works from the house doing consulting so she stays very busy with work. Where I am going with this is that I don't think I want to try counseling or even work this out since at the end of the day, this is not coming naturally to "us". I don't want to sound shallow but I really think we are 2 completely different people. I have sacrificed all fun and at 47, that is too much to waste. This is not a mid life crisis but it is a mid life realization.

 

What is the first step I should be taking? Lawyer or tell her what I want? I have a hard time going to a lawyer since she pays the bills and I would never be able to hide any kind of visit to the lawyer. I live in Pennsylvania in case that helps.

 

To ask this another way, what would be the steps in moving forward with Divorce. I get to this point every year and never go through with the next steps. Christmas, kids graduation, or other Event always has me procrastinating.

 

On another note, I can't imagine the financial ruin that is in my cards. I guess it is only stuff.... Not that important since I can't take it with me.

[TaraMaiden2]

I can't believe you'd give up on something without at least giving her a chance to know and understand where you're at with all of this.

 

Counselling is not necessarily a process expressedly gone through, to keep couples together.

Counselling is a safe environment where people can discuss things on an even, level playing field without resorting to, or descending into rudeness, shouting matches, tit-for-tat discussions, recriminations, accusations or blame throwing.

 

She stopped trying because you stopped trying. And you stopped trying because she stopped trying.

You both had a focus.

Women bringing children up, will focus on the children.

Dads generally speaking, working out of home, are less hands-on, less attached and less involved. It happens, it's nobody's fault, it's the way things all-too-often pan out.

 

Women stop paying attention to themselves because husbands lose interest and can't compete with the kids.

 

I'm merely going to volunteer some questions and I just want you to consider them.

 

How many times when the children were young, did you personally seek to obtain the services of a babysitter, and tell your wife you'd arranged everything and you were going out together?

How many times when the children were young did you say "I've got the kids, go get your hair/nails/skin done, go on, pamper yourself"...?

 

Your needs are not being met.

Are you seriously telling me you've always met hers?

 

Marriage is a partnership.

A contract between two people.

I guess it's true that she never properly stepped up to the plate, but can you hand on heart say you always did?

 

There is no 'blame' here.

But I suspect you have both shirked your respective responsibilities and failed to support, nourish and encourage one another as you both should have done.

 

Re-consider counselling, if only to bring all this to a head, discuss it, and see what you both put on the table.

[TaraMaiden2]

condit, I notice you posted a very similar thread on this very subject, back in 2011.

In it, you asked about counselling, and were urged by more than one contributor to make an appointment for Counselling.

 

Now, here you are, saying that you don't actually wish to consider that option...

 

What on earth happened?

DID you go to counselling last time?

I get the impression (please correct me if I'm wrong) that the total apathy is not on her side alone.

It seems as if you are simply floating along and maintaining your non-committal position as much as she is.

 

Has everything in the past 4 years been the same, old 'same-old'...?

Are we to receive further updates in 2019...?!

 

Coming onto this forum sporadically seeking support, but failing to follow any kind of helpful suggestion or pointers is absolutely guaranteed to move this thing forward not an inch....

 

You need to be proactive.

As they say, you need to 'speculate to accumulate'....

 

Unless you do something, nothing will change.

You need to be active to get some results, or else this will just go on, like some slow treadmill....

[condit]

TaraMaiden, I'll keep my reply brief since the intent was around the steps for divorce and not a question on counseling, meeting needs, etc.

 

In answering a few of your questions since you took a lot of time to respond x2 as well as look at my prior post:

- Yes, I organized dates without kids. She did not. I really wish she had

- I have not met her needs. I said that right upfront. I can talk 99% of the fault if we want to call it that.

- Counseling - we talked about going and she said that she would go. At the time my kids were younger and I personally was going to "wait it out" so that I could live with/through my kids growing up. That is a choice I made and I am glad I didn't leave sooner since they have done very well. We didn't have the screaming and fighting issue so I never felt they would have benefitted by me breaking up the family at that age. I could go with the flow. Counseling took a back seat and we slid back into our "parenting" relationship.

 

The real factor here is that I have decided that we are probably very different people with different interests. I really think I may have fallen out of love which is probably hard to comprehend. Said another way, I think we really loved the "family" more

 

Now I question what are the next steps? I get that one of my first steps may still include counseling which I will pursue anyway. Not so much for the marriage but maybe we can learn something about ourselves.

 

You seem like a regular on here so I hope to learn more about your personal experiences and where your perspective is coming from. Thank you

[loveboid]

If you're ready for divorce I would start with a financial analysis. Look up the laws in your state for child support and division of assets. Many states have a formula to calculate child support that makes things easier and more predictable.

 

Research mediation: This is a lawyer who helps you two to agree to settle on a division of assets yourselves without having a judge decide for you. Having a judge decide your case gets costly. If you and your wife sign a settlement, the judge is likely to sign off on it as well. Everyone in the courtroom loves when a couple settles out of court.

 

Consult a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst. Divorce is supposed to be fair--it doesn't have to mean financial devastation.

[TaraMaiden2]

TaraMaiden, I'll keep my reply brief since the intent was around the steps for divorce and not a question on counseling, meeting needs, etc.

 

In answering a few of your questions since you took a lot of time to respond x2 as well as look at my prior post:

- Yes, I organized dates without kids. She did not. I really wish she had

- I have not met her needs. I said that right upfront. I can talk 99% of the fault if we want to call it that.

- Counseling - we talked about going and she said that she would go. At the time my kids were younger and I personally was going to "wait it out" so that I could live with/through my kids growing up. That is a choice I made and I am glad I didn't leave sooner since they have done very well. We didn't have the screaming and fighting issue so I never felt they would have benefitted by me breaking up the family at that age. I could go with the flow. Counseling took a back seat and we slid back into our "parenting" relationship.

 

The real factor here is that I have decided that we are probably very different people with different interests. I really think I may have fallen out of love which is probably hard to comprehend. Said another way, I think we really loved the "family" more

 

Now I question what are the next steps? I get that one of my first steps may still include counseling which I will pursue anyway. Not so much for the marriage but maybe we can learn something about ourselves.

 

You seem like a regular on here so I hope to learn more about your personal experiences and where your perspective is coming from. Thank you

 

Thank you so much for still being here and coming back to your thread.

Good of you to take the salient points and respond.

"Falling out of love" is really not as hard to comprehend as you might think. It happens an awful lot.

People change; they evolve, diverge, converge, meet, separate, travel on parallel tramlines and sometimes they stick it out because it's the best thing, and sometimes they knock it on the head, call it a day and go their separate ways.

I've mentioned this before (so I'll be brief, for the sake of those who may have come across this already) but there was a famous account in Reader's Digest of a couple - very much in the same situation as you guys - who mutually agreed to go their separate ways once the kids had flown the nest. Once that happened, they decided to go on one last trip together (having won a shedload of camping and touring equipment in some long-forgotten competition) so they set out for the wild blue yonder, mad a camp and went canoeing along remote waterways. The holiday took more than a month and by the end of it, they had 're-found' themselves.

It worked for them, because they (again, like you) had lived a life for the family, not for themselves.

However, I somehow doubt you recently won a shedload of camping gear, and the idea of re-discovering yourselves as a couple, after all this time, may not appeal.

I get it, it's fine. No judgement here...

 

Counselling will at least encourage a meeting of minds and laying your cards on the table.

I hope it won't be a situation where either of you will try to lay the responsibility at each others' feet (you don't sound at all the kind of guy who would, I might add) and I hope she too can deal with it sensibly...

 

My perspective comes from a background in counselling, which is why I was quick to point out the misapprehension people have about counselling. That it's a tool to fuse two people together for life, joined at the hip, event though one of them might be screaming "Cry Freedom"...!

I actually don't have too much of a story to tell; first husband (very young, huge mistake, best let sleeping dogs lie!) second husband, two kids with a result much the same as yours. (So I DO empathise, even though it may sound as if I didn't) and the third (one I happily wouldn't have married, but lived with in a contented state of partnership, but who is 'set in his ways' and wanted the official paperwork, 'because'. So we married.)

 

Quite a bit of road under these little feet....

 

I wish you well.

Keep in touch, let us know how you get on.

Always here as an ear if you need one.

 

[oldshirt]

Condit, I have read both of your threads. Our situations have some major differences but we also have some striking similarities.

 

 

I will invite you to read through my recent thread, "Things have been going downhill but last night about sent me over the edge." That thread is in the marriage/long term relationship section.

 

That thread is now closed as of this morning but as you read through that, there is some great information and advice. Much of that will also be very applicable to your situation.

 

 

I want to specifically recommend reading the posts by Why1234 and to look at some of the other sites that he references.

 

 

 

 

Read through those posts and the posts by Why1234 and I think you may get a little better idea of how to proceed.

[oldshirt]

You said you don't want to see an attorney first because she may find the attorney fees.

 

 

 

 

What if she does? What will she do and what will her reaction be if she finds out you are seeking legal counsel to divorce?

[loveboid]

Condit, you financial situation--meaning she would notice if you paid for lawyer fees--is common and divorce lawyers are well aware and accommodating. This is a reason why divorce lawyers will talk to you for free when you first consult them.

[minimariah]

What is the first step I should be taking?

 

you should sit down with your wife & tell her that you want a divorce.

 

why would you want to hide it anyway...? you want a divorce, no need to hide anything from her - let the law & your lawyer do whatever needs to be done to file for a divorce & start the process.

 

so tell your wife first, visit the lawyer immediately after that. ask about your rights... after that, you should sit down (with your wife, if possible) & break the news to your kids.

 

and then go to individual counseling - it is important to know where your marriage failed. you decided to marry this woman, YOU chose her & suddenly - after 15+ years you realized you're two different people? why didn't you see that in the very beginning? & if you fell out of love, why did you fell out if love? why did you let your marriage get to the point it has?

 

once you have answers to all of these questions, you'll learn and grow from it and won't repeat the same patterns in your next relationship so an individual counseling is a MUST.

 

also - is there anyone else in the picture, are you seeing someone else? is the house yours - is there a possibility that your wife might kick you out...? do you have a place to stay in case that happens? do you have a steady source of income, a job? is there a possibility of your wife taking some kind of "revenge" on you in terms of money & assets?

Edited October 4, 2015 by minimariah

[condit]

Thanks all for the thread references, responses and advice.

 

To answer the other questions; No, there isn't anyone else in my picture and as far as a place to stay, I would have to figure that out. I am fortunate in that my family is somewhat close by so I could fall back on their homes temporarily.

[ShouldGo]

Scary similarities, wow.

 

With your wife do you go out to dinner?

 

Ever do anything with other couples?

 

Do she come up with ideas of fun things to do?

 

Any other niceties from her?

[Popsicle]

These are refreshingly honest posts, condit. I like it.

 

I agree with the poster above who said that it's probably best if you just tell her that you want to divorce. That is what I did. But be prepared for her to be upset.

 

Her being upset is just something you have to expect and be ready to deal with for a while. People don't like change, but one day she will get over it. She can't hold you hostage in a marriage you don't want to be in anymore. No one can. There is calm after the storm though for both of you. I am well beyond my divorce and we have both moved past it now.

 

Start with speaking to a reputable lawyer and do what they say.

[condit]

Scary similarities, wow.

 

With your wife do you go out to dinner?

 

Ever do anything with other couples?

 

Do she come up with ideas of fun things to do?

 

Any other niceties from her?

 

 

- Out to dinner - Yes, I always ask her to clock out on a Friday or Saturday and we explore. This is always my doing.

- We do some things with other couples but again it usually takes me to get us to move on this.

- She does not come up with fun things to do! That is my problem. There are a lot of fun woman out there! Honestly, she is not that adventurous or fun. People are different...

- Niceties are rare or non existent. She doesn't do niceties for our friends or relatives and I sort of think that she could be the one to run those down. It is a little "weird" when the man sends hand written thank you notes for nice get togethers, etc. I don't mean to set anyone off with this comment. In my family and friends, this would be different. I still do it! Simple text, etc.