Scared of the unknown

[uncertainty]

Hi everybody. I have been married for 8 years and have a 5-year old. I've been seriously contemplating divorce for almost 2 years, and I even told him last December that I was thinking about it. I know it's the best thing. I'm not sure we should have gotten married in the first place, but sad to say, I think the ticking of my biological clock blinded me from reality. There's no attraction to him left. We haven't had sex in well over a year now, and I don't even care anymore. I won't go into details of everything that's gone on, but I'll summarize.

 

There was an inappropriate internet relationship which got to the point that he invited her over while I was out of the state. She couldn't come according to the chat. At first when I confronted him about it, he denied it completely. after I told him I had the chat logs, he denied remembering it, even though he'd chatted with her only a few days prior. He then said IF he did it, it was just all in fun and he would have never let her come. I had a late miscarriage/stillbirth earlier that year and he was chatting with her while I was on bed rest and even the night I went into labor. Later it was inappropriate texts with a co worker where he said he loved her and suggested doing something (he didn't specify) with her that his wife (me) wouldn't like. He again said it was all a joke.

 

He's emotionally distant and dismissive, he makes mean-spirited jokes and tells me I'm too sensitive and to get a sense of humor. He repeatedly jokes about a young gay family member of mine even after I've asked him to stop. We have different political beliefs--ive become more liberal you could say--and he mocks mine. I've been seeing a counselor to cope with my conflicted feelings and she has suggested that he is emotionally abusive. That thought had never crossed my mind, but now I wonder if she's right.

 

He loves our daughter I know that, and she loves him. I don't agree with his parenting a lot of the time, I think he's too hard on her. Yelling, spanking, using brute force to get her to her bedroom when our she won't listen. It's not to the extent that I'd want to take her from him, but I do worry about it. I've tried to discuss it with him but he says I'm overreacting--as with everything else.

 

What keeps me here? I've been a SAHM mom. His work schedule varies and doesn't allow for me to hold down a job without day care and we decided together that it wasn't worth it. So I haven't worked in years. I have no family here, neither of us do. Our nearest family on either side is over 400 miles. And I would have nowhere to stay if I left. We had agreed before our daughter was even conceived that we wouldn't raise a child here and we wanted to raise her near family. Four years ago, he "officially" began the job hunt, but truthfully, he's never looked, beyond emailing a resume here and there, with no following up in any way. My daughter will be starting school this fall, so I feel like time is crucial. I am still adamant about not raising her here. The schools are failing, the economy is terrible, and crime rates are high. I don't have a degree, and we'd be living paycheck to paycheck. If I moved near my family, id be able to go back to school and provide better future for her, she'd have family to help look after her and to have a close relationship with, and she'd have a better education as well. It's even more important to me for her to grow up knowing her grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins given that she is an only child. I will be 40 next year and I've lost 4 babies since I had her, so I don't think that is going to change. She wants a sibling so badly, and I grieve for her over it. Having cousins and other family around I hope could make up for it, at least somewhat.

 

But I'm scared. Scared he or the court wouldn't allow the move and I could be stuck in the state for the next 10-plus years. Or of losing custody all together. I don't see any reason that would happen, but it happened to a friend of mine because her ex had the money to drag out the custody process and paint her a bad mother. My husband's family is very well off and his mother is overbearing and possessive over her grandchildren--wanting to take my daughter on an over a week-long vacation clear across the country without telling us when exactly she'd bring her back! So he'd probably do anything she said. I have an overwhelming fear that if his parents were to foot the legal costs, he'd manage to destroy me. Again, I don't see what grounds he'd have. Given that I'm willing to offer a generous visitation schedule and even pay for travel expenses out of the child support, the lawyers I've consulted with seem to think the law would be on my side, but I've seen it happen.

 

Well, this has gotten long, so I'll end here. Any advice/words of wisdom are appreciated!

Edited March 29, 2015 by uncertainty

[uncertainty]

Has anyone been there? Just hoping for some understanding. I don't know why it's taken this long, and why I can't just say the words to him. My family tells me I'm probably imagining divorce and what the future holds to be much tougher than what it turns out to be. After all, I have their support and a place to stay with them if I need to. But they don't understand. None of them have been divorced. And I'm under no illusions...I know it's going to be possibly the hardest thing I do. I just don't know why other people can just tell their spouse it's over, but this anxiety and uncertainty is keeping me stuck. I have to find a way to do this and just let it go. I can't control how he's going to react, right?

[outthewindow]

Hi uncertainty,

 

I don't have kids so I haven't been in your shoes from that side, but my XH did continue what I consider an inappropriate emotional relationship with his ex for the duration of our marriage so I can sympathize somewhat there.

 

For me this is/was almost worse than if he have gone out and had a drunken one night stand... He was and still is invested in his relationship with his ex.. And that hurts.

 

Your husband has treated you terribly, his (at least ) emotional cheating and disrespect towards you along with him not being supportive and your lack of sex drive all add up to a man that's not committed to his marriage. I'd ask if you've tried counseling but at this point I'm not sure it would help.

 

I think your mind is made up and you will leave him at some point.

 

Make sure you get all your ducks in a row beforehand though. See a lawyer, get good advice from them. Getting back into the workforce would be a good idea too. It would help you get your hands on some money, and more importantly at this point, boost your confidence a bit.

 

As for thinking that other people 'just tell their spouse it's over' honestly, it's very rarely that simple. My marriage was awful for the last probably two years before I finally put my foot down and kicked him out, and even that was after months of him changing his mind about if he wanted a divorce or not on a weekly (sometimes daily) basis. Eventually even I had enough, and I seem to be able to take a lot of 'punishment' as it were.

 

For most people that are unhappy in their marriages and are considering divorce, actually taking that step can take months, or even years. Everyone works on their own time line, and that's ok. Don't beat yourself up about not being able to do it right now... Maybe tomorrow is the day, maybe it's next week or next month, but from listening to you, I think you will take it.

 

And it will be the hardest thing you have ever done, and it will be awful, but you'll be ok.

 

OTW

[WhiteWingedDove]

My situation was nowhere near yours (no children and .. a compromised ability to work in my chosen field due to location vs being entirely out of work) but I'll try to help.

 

Yes it IS amazingly hard to summon the courage to say the words 'I want a divorce'. Yes following through WILL be the hardest thing you've ever done (I know that and I've only begun, by physically moving 500 miles away). And no, you cannot predict his reaction - don't try too hard to!

 

You must prepare a plan, but don't expect that plan to be flawless, and don't wait until that plan is 'perfect' as it never will be.

 

It really comes down to this - do you feel it is o.k. to remain in a marriage out of FEAR under any circumstances? Because it sounds like that is where you are; that fear is the main reason you don't ask for a divorce. For me, once I realized it was fear holding me back, and how that was no glue for a marriage, I was able to overcome that fear and move forward.

 

I have been largely surprised at how well my H has taken my up and suddenly moving out with no warning. So far, we are talking about handling the divorce civilly. There is some hope on his side I'll change my mind - you might need to prepare for that, and it can be an emotional onslaught.

 

You have the complication of a child to worry about, but the help of family which I do not have at all. Believe in their support. I have one, maybe two, well trusted friends to talk to, and it has made all the difference. I'm looking for a support group, too.

 

If fear is your primary motivation for staying I think you WILL summon the courage. It may be the hardest, but it might turn out to be the BEST thing you have ever done.

Edited March 30, 2015 by WhiteWingedDove

[oldshirt]

If divorce were cheap, simple, painless and without uncertainty, we'd all be divorced because every marriage sucks to one degree or another at one time or another.

 

The truth is you will divorce when the pain and anguish of staying outweighs the cost, fear and headache of leaving.

 

From your description, it sounds like you are closing in on that day real fast.

[uncertainty]

Thank you everyone. You all made me feel better. Not quite so alone.

 

We did do counseling very briefly, and she came to the conclusion that he shows no desire to change or to take responsibility for anything. He'd listen to me in the sessions, then basically say, "This is just how I am, I can't help how you feel." He was married before, and takes zero responsibility for that divorce. Trying to discuss anything with him or to get him to understand is like going around in circles. We don't get anywhere. I've consulted with multiple lawyers so I have a general idea of the laws and my rights. There is no waiting period here. If the divorce is uncontested, it can be over in a couple of weeks. Contested, as long as 6 months. But, they said that timeframe is mostly due to financials. Child custody is decided first.

 

Getting back into the workforce would be a good idea too. It would help you get your hands on some money, and more importantly at this point, boost your confidence a bit.

 

I have thought about going back to work, but again, I'd need day care. And also, if I'm going to move out of state in a matter of months, is taking a job here a good idea? And as long as we're married, the money would be half his. By the time we paid a sitter, it would amount to very little money, unfortunately. When fall comes, and she's in school, I could send her to the after school program, and it would be different. I realize I could end up stuck here, but moving is my goal. My dad has told me that he could probably help me find a job in his town. It wouldn't pay a lot, but it would be enough to get us through while I go back to school. I'm torn on which scenario to plan for.

[badpenny]

What would bring you happiness, and what would bring you pleasure?

 

get help where you can, but give it too.

 

Take in cleaning and ironing for others, and if you're good at sewing, offer to do minor alterations (shortening sleeves and trousers, reversing shirt collars, basic stuff, nothing you can get sued over).

My friend does this and she's built up a nice little money-earner. Nothing that will make her a millionairess, but enough to let her get her hair done by a good stylist, or buy a new pair of good shoes....

 

Do a home-study course in something you love doing. Get a qualification....

 

Honestly, with everything you have going for you, the 'unknown' is to be perceived as an awfully big adventure. You ahve help available, and a supportive dad....

You have a world out there waiting for you - and there's fun to be had.

[jakrbbt]

You have a number of logistic problems, some tough ones, all solveable. Then you also have the bogeyman of your uncooperative and powerful husband. My gut tells me that the best way to get through this (if you do divorce) is to focus on tackling the logistic problems. Some of that might take consulting with a lawyer about basic things like whether you can file and then still live in the house while you save. Whether you can move out of state or whether that'll be a legal hurdle.

 

Just remember, the optimal situation is nice, but it is not the only acceptable choice. When you are in a bad marriage, you think you need certain things to be "better" (better house, better city, closer to friends) that actually might not be so essential once you're free from the badness of a bad marriage.

 

Living away from family and school seems like a problem, but you can tackle it if you need to. Moving close to family and returning to school seems great, but remember, you may have opposition. And I can actually understand why. In most situations, it's best that a child live near both parents. Even if both parents cannot live near their own parents. I agree that you'd be so much better off with free, on-call, supportive child care in the form of grandparents. But I want to also reassure you that you can very likely do it another way and be just fine.

 

A word about one party having money for expensive lawyers. That's more of a problem if and when you-- the other party-- have some big weakness that can be exposed in court like a drug addiction or former conviction or hidden marital assets. Often, it's actually helpful for the opposing party to have a good lawyer. If he hires someone who is respected by judges, he's less likely to pull a bunch of legal shenanigans and ask for unreasonable stuff. Judges don't like that, and a good lawyer who can afford to be choose won't want to take a client who's just going to refuse to listen to legal advice and try to be a jackass instead. Good lawyers will tell their clients when they should settle, because they know the law, see the weakness in a case, and that's part of their job-- to advise the client on how to proceed, given the law. It's not their job to screw over the other side, law-be-damned. Now, some expensive but less scrupulous lawyers will happily take more money to file superfluous stuff that's likely to fail, and drag out the process, just to keep the client paying and happy. Sometimes a bully client will fire a good attorney or two and then go with one of those kinds. Even then, the law is there to protect you and your child. I'd be more worried about the judges. Many are good (depending on the jurisdiction), but sometimes it can be unpredictable and that is the bigger factor.

 

My advice would be to get a job in your area, or at least try to. I'm not saying you shouldn't even look into moving. I'm just trying to make sure you give yourself options. Daycare is a huge issue with many creative solutions. A number of companies (and tech, and code-writing, are big examples) are trying to recognize the value in employing mothers and giving them flexible schedules so they don't need day care. Getting a job seems daunting. Daycare does too. But it's just logistics. What is more daunting from where I sit, is trying to battle your husband for every penny with no fallback if you lose-- or on the other hand, staying married if you're not able to be healthy and reasonably happy. You will need a job anyway, so that is task number one. You can do it. It will make the stress of divorce a lot smaller once you have another means of support.

 

As for school/crime rate, see of you can tag along with some snobby educated people with kids, even if you can't send your kid to their school. Having educated friends will help your child a lot, even if she's in a mediocre school in a bad city. And you can cobble together playdate trades instead of day care. I am naming tasks that seem impossible, but try. It's been done before.

 

Also tactically, if you can come up with post-divorce solutions that are good for the child and your h can't reasonably object to, then you'll be in a better position in court.

 

My off-the-cuff take on your husband is that he sounds very insecure and not very wise or mature or constructive about it. Remember, the main point of a divorce judgment is to get the kid situated and doing well. Your H may forget that if he gets angry or feels threatened, but you keep your eye on that, and you'll come out ok.

 

Please keep posting! Good luck on the job/income/childcare hunt which I see as step one.

[jakrbbt]

Thank you everyone. You all made me feel better. Not quite so alone.

 

We did do counseling very briefly, and she came to the conclusion that he shows no desire to change or to take responsibility for anything. He'd listen to me in the sessions, then basically say, "This is just how I am, I can't help how you feel." He was married before, and takes zero responsibility for that divorce. Trying to discuss anything with him or to get him to understand is like going around in circles. We don't get anywhere. I've consulted with multiple lawyers so I have a general idea of the laws and my rights. There is no waiting period here. If the divorce is uncontested, it can be over in a couple of weeks. Contested, as long as 6 months. But, they said that timeframe is mostly due to financials. Child custody is decided first.

 

 

 

I have thought about going back to work, but again, I'd need day care. And also, if I'm going to move out of state in a matter of months, is taking a job here a good idea? And as long as we're married, the money would be half his. By the time we paid a sitter, it would amount to very little money, unfortunately. When fall comes, and she's in school, I could send her to the after school program, and it would be different. I realize I could end up stuck here, but moving is my goal. My dad has told me that he could probably help me find a job in his town. It wouldn't pay a lot, but it would be enough to get us through while I go back to school. I'm torn on which scenario to plan for.

 

I didn't see this and I have something to add-- Yes, I'd advise that you get a job in your area first. If you go to court and you basically represent that the only option you're willing to pursue is moving far from your child's other parent, and not trying to work nearer by, you may invite some negative findings against you having as much custody or parenting time. So don't make that mistake. The same goes for finding reasons not to go back to work e.g. it's not worth the cost in day care et c. Most child support calculators take day care expenses into account. (In my case, I'd have ended up paying for almost all of my ex's daycare if he had needed it-- but we probably don't live in the same state so look into your state's child support calculator).

 

It's common for SAHPs to resist going to work, and courts see a lot of that and they do not like it. There are reasons that the SAHPs mention-- real reasons-- but the truth is, courts have no system whereby they can fund nonworking parents. (If they did, the working parents might prefer to be the single, funded SAHP too, and there might be a race to stop working, for one thing). I am not saying that's how it should be. I'm just making sure you dn't shoot yourself in the foot in court by making the very common mistake of failing to seek employment.

 

Going from SAHP to working parent is a huge leap, in many ways. You will think of money differently. You will begrudge the day care, not having needed it before. You will feel guilty and like you are wasting your time and money. You are NOT. You're gaining independence and you're ensuring a stronger position on having sole or joint custody and parenting time.

 

Working--even temporarily, even if you'd rather move in a few months, even with not much to show after day care expenses-- looks like responsible parenting in the eyes of the court.