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Old 21st August 2012, 4:26 AM   #1
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Thumbs down Coping with stupidity

Just registered and I'll warn you from the start, this is going to be a long post, so I might as well get into it. And it will contain dumbassery.

A few months back the sister-in-law of one of my best friends contacted me out of the blue to hang out at my buddy and her sister's urging because I had moved in her area. I had met her a couple of times, but there wasn't much of a connection. In fact, I thought the sister-in-law disliked me because she found out that I had made an off-color, joking comment about how I "could have tapped it" when I met her several years earlier at my buddy's wedding. So I was surprised that she made the effort to contact me.

I went in with no expectations - thought she'd be a way to meet other girls because I didn't think there was any way she'd like me because of the aforementioned incident. Anyway, we hang out and it goes really well, to the point where we spent at least one day of the next several weekends hanging out one-on-one, each one better than the last. The flirting picked up, culminated by a long weekend with my friend and his wife about a month or so in where there was heavy flirting between me and the sister-in-law which would have resulted in a hookup had there not been others with us. And of course, I fell for the sister-in-law. Hard.

This scared the heck out of me and got me to overthinking, because I'm generally very even-tempered and like to keep people at a comfortable distance. So while I was really pumped to see this girl again, I also was forming exit strategies in my mind, as I was freaking out about taking the leap and showing this girl how I felt. It all culminated in me getting into a drunken mess at a bar crawl on the beach, going into a rant about how "I screwed it up" when we went back to her place and basically acting like a douche. If I was a fighter pilot, I would have pulled the ejection handle.

Anyway, I sobered up and realized what I had done and immediately regretted it, but the sister-in-law was obviously unsettled by this display of raw emotion and retardism. She canceled further plans we had that weekend, didn't return one call a few days later, then returned a second call the next weekend and asked to hang out with me, only to cancel because the thing she was at before she was going to hang with me ran late. Since then I texted twice and called once with no response from her over the course of two weeks before going into no contact, which I'm at the three-week mark of carrying out.

It's obvious - she's fading and I'm not going to chase. Normally this is where I'd move on (which I've tried to do, met several women since the sister-in-law and I parted ways). I assumed that she was either a) not that into me and just didn't want to have the conversation or b) was intrigued by me and I came on way too strong/weird and she faded were the two options. But she can't fade completely because of my relationship with her brother-in-law and sister.

My buddy and his wife are coming down in a couple weeks to visit and the four of us will hang out, meaning that I will get another chance to hang out with the sister-in-law. Which got me to thinking: "Why fade when you can't fade?" Then a confidant suggested something that blew my mind -- the sister-in-law might think that I rejected her. I never thought of that, because she's quite attractive (way more than me) and successful and quite frankly, I'd have no business rejecting her. I'd have to be the dumbest person on the planet.

The girl in question is not someone who you think would fade. She's upfront to the point of being confrontational and is quite outspoken. She has a lot of guy friends and has had to have the "I don't see you like that" talk with a lot of them I'm pretty sure. But she hasn't with me. That's fine (though cold) if she had no possible way to see me again, but because of my connections with her family it's not a very viable strategy for her to use.

So I went over all of our outings and recollected the signals she gave, facepalming myself the entire time. She would feed me food off her plate instead of putting it on my plate to taste it, she asked if I "was a good boyfriend in the past" the first time we hung out, she'd change clothes after I came over to pick her up, she'd sit close to me and occasionally hold my hand for an extra couple seconds if our hands came in contact, always smile and look into my eyes, ask me to stay over even if i was sober and she was passing out, she'd come up with future plans for outings out of town, she'd mimic me and compliment me, want to pay for everything and get pissed when I'd pay, she wanted to join me on a trip to a family condo and said I could call her "my lady friend". Hell, she joined me in my bed instead of sleeping on the floor when my buddy and his wife were in town after my buddy woke her up (she passed out on the couch unintentionally) and got on the couch because his back was hurting him. Also, her sister has badgered me in the past about settling down and finding someone and has combined with the sister-in-law to try to set up dates for other friends of ours. Yet neither one of them have many any suggestions of that nature to me. I could keep going on and on.

The only negative thing she did was get a guy's number in my presence. However, even after that our flirting got a lot more aggressive to the point where we were pawing and grinding on each other at the next bar we were at. That was the night she ended up sleeping in my bed.

I still think the "was intrigued but got freaked out by my behavior" is the most likely scenario, but if she feels I rejected her, that really throws me for a loop because I figured I was the rejectee this whole time. I'm wondering how I approach this whole thing. I was planning on the aloof friendliness at first, but if she feels I wronged her, that could be a bad idea. I also wonder if I should break my no-contact and try to hang out with her before her sister and my buddy come to visit. I was just going to wait, let emotions completely settle and hope the time apart would be a benefit to me, but now I'm wondering if I should make a move before then. I'm also wondering if she does indeed feel rejected, what that means for any chance I have at salvaging this thing. Hopefully, just being me (the me that she loved hanging out with, not the drunk douche from the last time she hung with me) reignites whatever like for me she had, but feelings are a fickle beast.

I apologize for the length and the crazy nature of this post and maybe I'm reading too much into it and it's simply a case of her "not being that into me" and trying to take the easy way out. But it doesn't seem that way. I'll take any feedback, even if it's "you're a moron." Because let's face it, I am a moron.

Cliffs: Guy likes girl, guy hangs with girl, guy does something stupid, girl fades. Guy thinks he got rejected but gets another opportunity with girl. Realizes that maybe he misread situation and girl feels rejected. Guy wonders what to do. Herp, derp, slurp.

Last edited by Simon Phoenix; 21st August 2012 at 5:04 AM..
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Old 21st August 2012, 7:35 PM   #2
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bump. I know it's long and frenetic, but I wouldn't mind some feedback.
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Old 21st August 2012, 8:08 PM   #3
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Hey, I think like most of us guy's that your overthinking things. I would just wait till the four of you get together and see what happens. It's when we over analize things that we really mess up. If she likes you then one moron moment won't ruin your chances.
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Old 22nd August 2012, 2:33 AM   #4
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Hey, I think like most of us guy's that your overthinking things. I would just wait till the four of you get together and see what happens. It's when we over analize things that we really mess up. If she likes you then one moron moment won't ruin your chances.
I hear ya. I could do a spreadsheet on each outing we had, that's how overanalytical I can be. My first instinct was to wait until the four of us got together and not try to push it beforehand and do exactly what you said. She was obviously startled so I have given her space. At the very least I'll get a chance to make a better "most recent" impression and go from there. My moron moment won't be the last moment, which is all I can really ask.
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Old 22nd August 2012, 9:48 PM   #5
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what's sad is, i could have typed the same damn stories about so many of my crushes.

without phsyically observing, i do think you have a bit of a point. actually, i'm going through something very similar, but without the intimacy. sometimes girls just...get weird. that's the nicest way to put it. you can think things are great, and suddenly they just disappear with no real explanation.

the thing that stands out poorly is her getting someone's number. if she was merely being nice and avoiding a scene of rejecting someone, that would be one thing, but if it was cooperative, i'd really think you may have been near the friendzone line with that one.

but then again, some girls are very needy about vocalization. if she felt that you weren't into it, she may have been keeping HER guard up same as you.

my honest advice on this one, i do still believe you're overthinking it a bit, and you could end up making it worse or more uncomfortable when you see her.

you already know you're going to run into her soon, so i'd say drop it and stop trying to contact her...and just play it cool when you see her. if you act like nothing is wrong, you're going to get a better reaction than if you act like a whiny emo puppy about it. savvy?
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Old 22nd August 2012, 9:59 PM   #6
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If you really like her...

Get her alone, and be honest about your interest in her. See how she reacts, and tell her everything you've told us. You have absolutely NOTHING to lose.

You sound like a nice guy. Go for it.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 1:05 AM   #7
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what's sad is, i could have typed the same damn stories about so many of my crushes.

without phsyically observing, i do think you have a bit of a point. actually, i'm going through something very similar, but without the intimacy. sometimes girls just...get weird. that's the nicest way to put it. you can think things are great, and suddenly they just disappear with no real explanation.

the thing that stands out poorly is her getting someone's number. if she was merely being nice and avoiding a scene of rejecting someone, that would be one thing, but if it was cooperative, i'd really think you may have been near the friendzone line with that one.

but then again, some girls are very needy about vocalization. if she felt that you weren't into it, she may have been keeping HER guard up same as you.

my honest advice on this one, i do still believe you're overthinking it a bit, and you could end up making it worse or more uncomfortable when you see her.

you already know you're going to run into her soon, so i'd say drop it and stop trying to contact her...and just play it cool when you see her. if you act like nothing is wrong, you're going to get a better reaction than if you act like a whiny emo puppy about it. savvy?
I'm impressed you actually went back and read that drivel. Props to you my man. I do know why she disappeared and I get it, I was expecting some blowback from my tantrum or whatever. Just didn't expect it to be as thorough as it was, which makes me think it might have been a little more complicated then her "not being that into me." It might not be, but something doesn't add up.

As for the number thing, that was weird. We got to the bar, she put her arm around me pretty aggressively and I went kind of cold for some unknown reason. Then we sit at a table with these two guys (there were no other tables and they let the four of us sit there) and she's talking to one of them. I wasn't really paying attention that much until I saw them exchange numbers (he was a tourist from out of town, so it wasn't a real threat). That seemed to wake me up, as I started flirting with her pretty hard core and she reciprocated. If her sister (who got pissed at my buddy suggesting that the two of us were hooking up) wasn't there, I would have made my move that night and almost certainly have been successful. But I just kept it at heavy flirting to avoid that scene and was passed out by the time she climbed in my bed later that night. Hindsight being 20/20 I would have just gone for it, though not necessarily when she climbed into bed with me barely awake. But yeah, it was almost like she got the number to "wake me up" or something, and it worked, because I escalated the flirting game that night.

I'm definitely overthinking (also am cursed with remembering everything I do drunk unless I black out, which is rare) and that's why I'm using this forum -- would rather hem and haw here and act "emo" and get it out of my system because I agree, being a whiny bitch isn't going to get me what I want, be it her or closure. I'm going to hold tight (like I said, I haven't attempted to get a hold of her for three weeks) and not contact her until we are scheduled to hang out, then go from there. Not going to worry about what she might be thinking or try to manipulate the situation, I'm just going to be me. Before I went into Retardo Montalban mode, that was working just fine.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 1:09 AM   #8
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If you really like her...

Get her alone, and be honest about your interest in her. See how she reacts, and tell her everything you've told us. You have absolutely NOTHING to lose.

You sound like a nice guy. Go for it.
Yeah, we'll see. I always feel that "the talk" is a move of desperation and would rather just try to slide back in and regain the footing I had, but it might be necessary in this case. It's apparent she was shook/confused/angered pretty substantially for her to pull back the way she did, so maybe I have to bite the bullet and have that conversation. Of course, if this was an 80s teen flick the conversation would be money as hell
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Old 23rd August 2012, 1:39 PM   #9
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I'm impressed you actually went back and read that drivel. Props to you my man. I do know why she disappeared and I get it, I was expecting some blowback from my tantrum or whatever. Just didn't expect it to be as thorough as it was, which makes me think it might have been a little more complicated then her "not being that into me." It might not be, but something doesn't add up.

As for the number thing, that was weird. We got to the bar, she put her arm around me pretty aggressively and I went kind of cold for some unknown reason. Then we sit at a table with these two guys (there were no other tables and they let the four of us sit there) and she's talking to one of them. I wasn't really paying attention that much until I saw them exchange numbers (he was a tourist from out of town, so it wasn't a real threat). That seemed to wake me up, as I started flirting with her pretty hard core and she reciprocated. If her sister (who got pissed at my buddy suggesting that the two of us were hooking up) wasn't there, I would have made my move that night and almost certainly have been successful. But I just kept it at heavy flirting to avoid that scene and was passed out by the time she climbed in my bed later that night. Hindsight being 20/20 I would have just gone for it, though not necessarily when she climbed into bed with me barely awake. But yeah, it was almost like she got the number to "wake me up" or something, and it worked, because I escalated the flirting game that night.

I'm definitely overthinking (also am cursed with remembering everything I do drunk unless I black out, which is rare) and that's why I'm using this forum -- would rather hem and haw here and act "emo" and get it out of my system because I agree, being a whiny bitch isn't going to get me what I want, be it her or closure. I'm going to hold tight (like I said, I haven't attempted to get a hold of her for three weeks) and not contact her until we are scheduled to hang out, then go from there. Not going to worry about what she might be thinking or try to manipulate the situation, I'm just going to be me. Before I went into Retardo Montalban mode, that was working just fine.
right on! it's tough though, i know, but it sounds like you're at least aware of the possible mistakes, and what to try and not do the next time around. maybe she's just a fickle cold fish and it was zero to do with you. some people are just like that, and you may be assuming it's based on what happened and in reality it may just be her acting crazy of her own free will
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Old 23rd August 2012, 1:48 PM   #10
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right on! it's tough though, i know, but it sounds like you're at least aware of the possible mistakes, and what to try and not do the next time around. maybe she's just a fickle cold fish and it was zero to do with you. some people are just like that, and you may be assuming it's based on what happened and in reality it may just be her acting crazy of her own free will
Always a possibility. Logic and feelings don't often mix, especially with women (no offense ladies), so there's always a chance of it being a random flake out. You can never take that option off the table. Guess we'll see. At least I have a chance to see -- a lot of guys in my position never get that.
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Old 1st September 2012, 7:07 PM   #11
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Mini-update on this one (might as well update both threads that I created on this). Actually texted her yesterday. I wanted confirmation on some tickets that she was supposed to get us for next weekend, asked my buddy about it and he said he didn't know and I should get in touch with her. So I did. She texted me back right away, answered my question and then asked me how I've been. I told her, asked how she had been and we had a brief text conversation which I didn't drag out. Today she texted me out of the blue offering me tickets to a sporting event tonight (she is a sales manager for a professional sports team). I couldn't go and denied them, but at least the "fade" seems to be over and has me optimistic for next weekend.
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Old 4th September 2012, 2:17 PM   #12
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at least it sounds like it won't be crazy awkward!
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Old 4th September 2012, 7:56 PM   #13
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at least it sounds like it won't be crazy awkward!
Yeah, I think that potential hiccup has been avoided. Who knows what'll happen, butthe fact that she offered me tickets unprompted isn't a bad thing. But I'm pretty sure I got the overthinking completely out of my system and I'm back to the way I was.
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Old 8th September 2012, 6:29 AM   #14
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Yeah, I spoke too soon. Hung out with her tonight and she was pretty cold. Not unfriendly, but definitely distant and definitely seemed annoyed with me quite a bit for doing and saying stuff that she loved before. Definitely running the auto-rejection playbook to a T. Occasionally she would let her guard down and allow herself to laugh at a comment I made and I could definitely tell she was conflicted about laughing/enjoying something I said and whatever guard she put up. She'd start smiling and laughing at something I said or did, then a few seconds later act annoyed and try to ignore me.

I didn't really pay it any mind and did my thing, but there was definitely some awkwardness that was 100 percent on her end. My buddy definitely noticed all of it and felt that I did a good job of not reacting to it and felt that she was the one thrown off and acting weird.

Anyway, might see her and her sister for breakfast tomorrow (might not) and will hang out with her Sunday, though not as long as I originally thought. I guess I'm not surprised at the resistance, but I was hoping it'd be easier. Maybe just making it through the first day will melt some of the ice and she can relax and stop acting all weird, but I'm thinking this could be a long process. And a process that might not be worth undertaking. I really like her, but maybe it's time to completely move on. If some sort of closure is what I get out of this weekend, then it'll be a net positive.
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Last edited by Simon Phoenix; 8th September 2012 at 6:46 AM..
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Old 10th September 2012, 5:56 PM   #15
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Another update for whoever cares: she was much better yesterday. Was actually chatting with me one on one about things, more open toward laughing and smiling at things I said. I think me ignoring/not reacting to her attempts to rile me up actually broke her anger down quite a bit. I didn't give her any ammunition to justify her Friday behavior, so she definitely dialed it down quite a bit.

It still wasn't completely ideal and she didn't flirt with me at all (and neither did I with her for that matter), so it was pretty much like the two times we hung out before we started seeing each other every weekend in that respect. It was quite an improvement from the other night though. She hugged me when we parted ways yesterday (didn't hug me at all Friday) and told me that "I'm sure I'll see you soon." Not sure what the hell that means -- whether she's going to try to hang out with me or giving me the open invite to call her up. Not too worried about it.

I'm not sure where I'll go from here. I won't completely shut that door, but I don't think I'm going to be very aggressive toward "winning her back" or whatever. Not sure if it's a worthwhile quest, because her behavior Friday did put me off quite a bit, even if it was improved yesterday.
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