I Feel Like She Took Apart of My Soul.....

[AaronSG]

I don't know folks, I could just be rambling on about much of nothing here, but in recent days I've been feeling very strange and odd, and when I go about analyzing my feelings, I almost come to the strange answer, I almost always feel like my sociopathic ex-faince took part of my soul back home with her!

 

 

I don't know what to make of this, I've been in other serious relationships before, but this recent one takes the cake! Way back in High School 1985 to 1989 I had 3 very serious relationships with very normal and regular women, whenever those relations ended I never felt like they took any piece of me with them. I've been previously married to my ex-wife 1991 to 2008, my prior marriage ended in divorce, but even with the 14 years invested and instigating a divorce, even after that relationship ended I never felt like my very normal and regular person of a wife took any real piece of me with her after she was gone!

 

 

My ex-girlfriend 2010 to 2012 even after that relationship ended I didn't feel like she took any part of me with her as she left. Now here we come, my ex-faince late 2012 to 2014 this is where I am at a serious loss! It's been 3 months now since she has physically been in my life, it's been since August-7th since the last time we talked on the phone and here I am, for the life of me I can't figure out why, with this particular woman, why it feels like she ripped out part of my soul and took it back home with her.

 

 

The other women I've been with were normal in ever sense of the word compared to my ex-fiance. Some around these parts may be aware of my recent breakup story, but in a nut shell, she was a liar, a charmer, a deceiver, a manipulator, a controller, a user, a taker, at times a mild mentally abusing person, a person who rarely said "thank you" to anything that might have been given or done for her, a person who has some "entitlement" issues, a person that never once during the relationship ever said "sorry" about anything, a person who unknowingly came to me with so much damage from a life time of abuse she witnessed and suffered back at home, a person who unknowingly at first came to me a a former "cutter", damaging a very "private area of her body" when she a was a teenager, a person unknowingly at first who came to me being a person who was yanked out of the 2nd grade and never allowed to return to school, a person who unknowingly at first who was never allowed to seek out professional help of any sort for her life's problems, a person who brought her narcissistic father into my life, ect. ect. ect. ............I could go on!

 

 

Without knowing much or any of the baggage she brought into our relationship, at that, I loved her more than any woman I've ever loved before. She said all the right things, she did all the right actions, in very short order this woman almost morphed herself into what I had always thought the woman of my dreams would be. This woman was very attentive to my needs and wants and desires and at first she feed into them all and satisfied each and ever one. This woman was getting experiences of a life time with me, many to be "1st" for her, many day trips, many restaurant visits, many movie theater trips, many times hanging out with friends and family ect. ect. ect.

 

 

Granted, I wasn't totally dumb, there were the occasional "red flags" but when things were starting out for us, the red flags felt like many I might have faced before with normal woman, so blindly I brushed them off and kept going! Then one day I put my foot down and no longer allow money to be sent back home to family, and from that moment there was a total "doctor Jekyll and Mr. Hide" routine! Subsequently, the relationship, due to mischievous and manipulative reasons ends, and she goes back home to things worse off there then they were here.

 

 

Granted, I have made a lot of progress in my recovery from this situation, for nearly 3 months I've attended weekly support groups, joined many on-line support groups here on LoveShack, picked back up reading "self help" books, had many honest and open conversations about these matters with friends and family, placed myself under the care of a Psychiatrist, am taking medications, I've done a lot to help myself to get back towards making myself whole again! But that's the issue, this person who came into my life like a lovely whirlwind, full of all the hopes and promises and dreams and love, then exit's my life like a devastating hurricane and almost leaves me for dead, this is the trick here, why did I always feel whole after my previous relations with what society would consider normal and regular women, and here it is, I mess around this one person who to come to find out from all my sources is a sociopath, why with this one do I feel like she ripped out a part of my soul and took it with her? Why with this one am I having the hardest time getting back to a place in life where I feel complete? Why with this one can't I seem to get my mind and heart back on track? And the kicker here......why with this one, who did all she did to me and my family and friends, and everything her family did to the same people, why oh why does a part of me still feel so addicted to her?

 

 

I don't know, I could be making mountains of mole hills here and be rambling on about nothing, but this one I just can't figure out. I've done all the things to help myself, I've invested tons of hours watching educational videos about Narcissists and Sociopaths and Psychopaths on You Tube, I've invested a lot of time reading official medical documents on-line about these physiological labels, but still with all I've learned and all I've seen through the video's and all I've been able to take away from my support groups and talks with friends and family, why oh why, do I still feel like in some regards that I'm at a loss here?

 

 

I just can't figure why I would still be in many ways still in love, or at least addicted to a person like this, and why does it feel like they took some of who I am with them?

 

 

In certain aspects it's as if I almost feel guilty about being the victim here, which that issue alone as to why I feel that way has got me stumped!

 

 

Can someone please explain this to me, am I just stupid, am I just uneducated, am I making something out of nothing? I don't know............I just feel like she took from me parts of what makes me, me!

[Hoosfoos]

Index | A Shrink for Men

[Ronni_W]

Can someone please explain this to me, am I just stupid, am I just uneducated, am I making something out of nothing? I don't know............I just feel like she took from me parts of what makes me, me!

No, I can't explain it. No, you don't come across as "stupid" or "uneducated". No, it's not "nothing" if you feel that it is something.

 

I have to assume that you don't actually mean that she took a part of your soul. Spiritually, that's not possible.

 

Which means that I'm left with, she took a part of what you believed to be your "identity". But actually, practically speaking, it's not possible for her to have done that, either.

 

It does sound as if she hoodwinked you but good. Was part of your "identity" that you could *never* be hoodwinked as good as you were? (I'm just throwing out stuff, to possibly trigger a new line of thinking within yourself.)

 

You talked about other women as being "normal"...suggesting that, in your judgment this one was "not normal". If a "normal" woman had done all the exact same things as the "not normal" one...would that have been easier to swallow, or more difficult? Either way, why?

 

I get that you've been questing like crazy to find a nice, neat "box" into which you can fit this "not normal" one. And you've been unsuccessful, so far.

 

So. What if there is NO BOX into which she fits? What if her whole point and purpose in your life was to help you start to redefine your own ideas of what is "normal" and "not normal" for you, on a very personal and individual level? (Again, just throwing stuff out there.) What if it's not just about romantic partners or even women? What if it's about other groups and communities?

 

Or, now you're supposed to contemplate your own previously-held sense of who you are, what you stand for, what you *should* and *should not* be or pretend to be...your "identity" in the larger scheme of things?

 

What if you're not at all supposed to be comparing her as a "not normal", against all the "normals"? What if you're supposed to be asking other questions that relate more to YOU than to her?

 

I don't know. Well...I do know that you still have all of your soul, and that your sense of identity is entirely within your own power, control and authority. But other than that, I don't know.

 

Keep questing! As Mulder told Scully, "The truth is out there."

[Itspointless]

in very short order this woman almost morphed herself into what I had always thought the woman of my dreams would be.

Ever considered she might be the first person you actually gave yourself entirely to?

 

Next to that with personal identity we create a narrative about ourselves. Apparantly she has managed to have become very important in the story you tell about yourself (and you still give her a large part). Also read this: Neuroscientists Confirm That Our Loved Ones Become Ourselves | Psychology Today

[Itspointless]

Let me add, with the "doctor Jekyll and Mr. Hide" routine/blowing hot-cold, you have given her a lot of power (also in defining yourself) as of-course you did not want Mr Hide but your dream-woman. Perhaps even unconsciously you still hope she will see the light and with that you still give her power to define you.

 

You have to find healthy boundaries again.

[Downtown]

I mess around with this one person who ...is a sociopath.

Aaron, perhaps your Ex is "a sociopath." That is NOT what you're describing, however. A sociopath typically is a very emotionally stable person, not one who feels so empty and worthless inside that she must periodically cut herself in order to manage her emotions -- as your Ex did.

 

Moreover, a sociopath typically is very skillful at manipulating people because she carefully plans her strategy in advance and then implements this plan with flawless execution. In contrast, your Ex had to spend hours on the phone with her parents -- every night for a week -- to find out what path to follow when you refused to send more money to them. Moreover, she had been fully dependent on them throughout her entire life, to the point of always staying inside their home and not even learning how to drive -- and not even going to school after 2nd grade.

 

Importantly, if your Ex has strong traits of a personality disorder (PD), it is very unlikely she has only one. The vast majority of people having a PD also have one, two, or three others as well. The reason is that PDs are not separate diseases. Indeed, they are not diseases at all. Instead, they are simply groups of behavioral traits that tend to be seen occurring together and, at strong levels, become dysfunctional. Because the psychiatric community created too many of these PD categories, they often overlap -- with the result that a person having ONE personality can exhibit MULTIPLE personality disorders.

 

Hence, if your Ex actually has strong traits of a PD, she likely suffers from several of them. If I had to guess, I'd say you are describing strong warning signs for DPD (Dependent PD) and, to a lesser extent, for BPD (Borderline PD) and ASPD (Antisocial PD, i.e., "Sociopathy") as well.

She said all the right things, she did all the right actions, in very short order this woman almost morphed herself into what I had always thought the woman of my dreams would be.

To the extent your Ex has strong BPD traits, she will have a very weak and unstable self image. As a result, she will rely heavily on those around her to provide her with an identity and sense of direction. To acquire that identity, she will emulate the personality and preferences of someone having a strong, stable personality.

 

Hence, when a BPDer becomes infatuated with you, she will emulate features of your personality and will suddenly enjoy the activities and people you enjoy. Usually, this "mirroring" process is so nearly perfect that you BOTH will be convinced you've met your "soul mate." Importantly, a BPDer usually does not do this to manipulate you. Rather, she is simply doing the mirroring she's been doing since early childhood as a way of fitting in and being loved. She therefore will be just as convinced as you are that the two of you were made for each other. (A sociopath or narcissist, however, would be deliberately deceiving you with "bait and switch.")

 

Sadly, that mirroring is possible only because her infatuation over you is holding her two fears (abandonment and engulfment) at bay. The infatuation convinces her that you are her savior and thus pose no threat to those fears. Yet, as soon as that infatuation starts evaporating, the fears return and her idealization of you is suddenly replaced by her devalution -- or even demonizing -- of you.

 

As to her DPD traits, you describe a woman who was fully dependent on her parents 24/7 for 26 years. Indeed, since the age of 7, she never left home to even go to school. It therefore sounds like her bold move to live with you -- at the urging of parents who considered you a ready source of money -- was done mainly to please them and, to a lesser extent, to her desire to eventually switch her dependency from them to you so she will have a landing spot when they die.

 

When she was like 12-13-14 years old she used to be a "cutter.", [10/5]

BPD traits typically do not show strongly until the hormone surge occurs at puberty, i.e., at ages 11-13. As to the cutting, the APA's diagnostic manual lists "self-harming behavior such as cutting" for only one disorder: BPD. That is, of the 157 disorders listed in DSM-5, only BPD has cutting listed as a defining trait. Moreover, many studies have shown that self harm like cutting is strongly associated with BPD. A 2004 hospital study, for example, found that

Self-mutilating behavior is a symptom seen in both men and women with various psychiatric disorders, but the majority of those who self-mutilate are women with borderline personality disorder. This complex, maladaptive behavior is used by clients as a means of self-preservation and emotion regulation, and is often associated with childhood trauma.

See

J Psychosoc Nurs Ment Health Serv. 2004

.

I know at some point she had to love me, she was always saying it to me.... I miss her silliness, her cooking, her love.... [9/18 post.]

If her dominant behavioral traits are those of BPD, she very likely did love you intensely. Yet, because a BPDer's emotional development is frozen at the level of a four year old, a BPDer would love you in the same way a young child is able to love. This love, although intense, is too immature to be able to sustain a marriage or other adult relationship.

 

Another problem is that, like a young child, a BPDer cannot tolerate ambiguities, uncertainties, or strong mixed feelings. Both BPDers and young children therefore "split off" the conflicting feeling, putting it out of reach of the conscious mind. In this way, they only have to deal with one strong feeling at a time. This process is called "black-white thinking." It will be evident in the way kids and BPDers frequently use all-or-nothing expressions like "You ALWAYS..." and "You NEVER...." It also will be evident in how they categorize everyone at polar extremes, i.e., as "all good" or "all bad" and as "with me" or "against me."

 

She did come from a very dysfunctional house, a very alcoholic home, where violence between my ex-fiance's Mother and Father were pretty usual occurrences. [9/18 post.]

Most abused children grow up without developing a full-blown PD. Such abuse, however, greatly raises their risk of doing so. PDs are believed to be caused by a combination of genetics and early childhood environment. Significantly, the parents' genes and treatment of the child largely determine both those factors. A recent study of BPD, for example, found that 70% of the BPDers reported they had been abused or abandoned by a parent in childhood.

 

I very much miss the woman I first met, not the woman who put all the blame of our failed relationship on my shoulders.

One of the hallmarks of BPD, NPD, and ASPD is the refusal to accept responsibility for one's own actions. And, because BPDers have no sense of who they really are, they may be the worst when it comes to blameshifting. Lacking a strong self image, BPDers keep a death grip on their false self image of being "The Victim" -- always "The Victim."

 

No more sad boo hoo victim story's. [10/8]

As I said, if she has strong BPD traits, she frequently will seek "confirmation" that she is "The Victim" -- always "The Victim."

 

No more conspiracy theories. [10/8]

"Having stress-related paranoid thoughts or severe dissociative symptoms" is one of the nine defining traits for BPD. It is not a defining trait for sociopathy or narcissism.

 

There was a total "doctor Jekyll and Mr. Hide" routine!

This is a characteristic of BPD, NPD, and ASPD. With the narcissists and sociopaths, this behavior usually is done consciously and deliberately to manipulate you into serving their needs. With BPDers, however, it usually is not done consciously. As I noted above, the BPDer has a distorted perception of your intentions and motivations due to her black-white thinking. BPDers therefore tend to believe the outrageous allegations coming out of their mouths. And, a week later when she is saying the exact opposite, she likely will believe that too.

 

I was reeled in like a fish and was suckered from the start.

Yes, absolutely, if your Ex is a sociopath. If her traits are predominantly BPD, however, she likely was just as much "suckered" as you were. Like you, a BPDer is so blinded initially by infatuation that she is convinced you are the nearly perfect man. That infatuation, however, typically evaporates with six months of the couple living together. Yet, you got 14 months before seeing any signs she would turn on you. This is one reason I suspect DPD explains more of her behavior than BPD.

 

Why with this one do I feel like she ripped out a part of my soul and took it with her?

Because that is exactly how you should be feeling if you lived with a BPDer or sociopath or narcissist for a year and a half. Of the 157 disorders listed in DSM-5, those three PDs are the ones most notorious for making the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds. BPD is especially bad in this regard and likely produces more "crazymaking" behavior than narcissism and sociopathy combined. The result is that therapists see far more of the abused partners coming in for therapy -- to find out if they are really going crazy -- than is ever seen of the BPDers themselves.

 

The crazymaking effects of these three PDs are so well known than the abused ex-partners have given it a name: "gaslighting." The term is taken from the classic 1944 movie, Gaslight, in which a husband (Charles Boyer) tries to drive his new bride (Ingrid Bergman) crazy. His objective is to get her institutionalized in a psych ward so he can run off with her family jewels.

 

Why oh why does a part of me still feel so addicted to her?

The primary reason that BPDers have such an addictive and crazymaking effect on the partners is that (unlike the narcissists and sociopaths) BPDers are genuinely able to love, albeit in a childish manner. Moreover, while the BPDer has you up on the pedestal (i.e., is splitting you white), she behaves very, VERY good. During those good times, the partner typically experiences love and passion that is far beyond anything seen in the movies. The partner therefore reasons that, because he knows she genuinely loves him, he will be able to restore her to that wonderful loving woman if he can only figure out what HE is doing wrong. In this way, BPDer relationships tend to be as addictive and toxic as a heroine addiction -- where wonderful highs are followed by terrible lows.

 

She told my son and several friends they were not welcome in my home. [9/18]

This is a classic trait of all controlling people, a group that includes BPDers, sociopaths, and narcissists. To enhance their control over you, the first thing they will do is to isolate you away from all friends and family that otherwise would give you support. BPDers, for example, do this because they have a great fear of abandonment and thus perceive those friends and family members as a threat. Their fear is that someone will figure out how empty they are on the inside and will bring that to your attention, at which point you will stop loving them.

 

Everything started to go very much "down hill" in the relationship after I put my foot down, months before the breakup about how there will be no more sending any more money to her parents.

A sociopath will keep you around only as long as you provide money or are a source of great amusement. A narcissist will keep you as long as you continue to validate her false self image of being "The Perfect Woman." If you challenge that false image, or if she loses respect for your opinion, she will dump you.

 

In contrast, a BPDer will keep you as long as you frequently validate her false self image of being "The Victim." There are only two ways of doing that. One is to play the role of "Savior," as you did during the infatuation period. The implication is that, because you're trying to save her, she must be "The Victim." The other way -- i.e., the only other role she allows you to play -- is that of "Perpetrator," which means that she again is "The Victim" because you are the source of her every misfortune. This is one reason BPDers blame everything on their partners and accept responsibility for nothing.

 

Her Father told her that God said "Aaron is bad news, your Daughter needs to get away from him, you Daughter needs to come home"! That did it, my ex-fiance bought it! [9/18]

Yes, she "bought it" if her behavioral traits are predominantly DPD, as I suspect. In that case, she is so anxious to continue pleasing her father -- on whom she's always been dependent -- that she would be very receptive to suggestions and advice from him.

 

My father told me that I'm going to have to let my ex-fiance off the hook of blame, and put her parents, and her parents alone on that hook, hold them responsible for making the choice.[10/26]

I strongly disagree. If she has strong PD traits as you believe, she got them (through heredity or abusive treatment) from her parents -- who got them from her grandparents -- who got them from her great grandparents. Hence, by your father's way of thinking, NONE of these people should be held "responsible for making the choice." Well, of course, none of them chose to inherit a thought disorder. But, every day, they make choices about how they treat other people. Your Ex, for example, chose to lie to your mother about not having money for air fare when, in fact, she did have plenty of cash to give her parents as soon as she stepped off the plane. You should be holding HER accountable -- not her parents -- for those bad choices. Having a PD does not give anyone a free pass to abuse others.

 

If she does have strong PD traits, her emotional development is frozen at the level of a four year old. Like the PD sufferer, a child that age lacks many emotional skills through no fault of his own. A good parent nonetheless will hold him responsible for his own behavior and choices. Otherwise, he has no incentive to acquire those skills and grow up.

 

Similarly, it is important -- for your Ex's own welfare -- that she be held fully accountable for her bad choices. This means she should be allowed to suffer the logical consequences of those decisions. Otherwise, she has no incentive to confront her issues and learn how to manage them. Significantly, the logical consequence of her choosing to abuse and betray you is that she is to be cut out of your life entirely.

 

I've invested tons of hours watching educational videos about Narcissists and Sociopaths and Psychopaths on YouTube.

I applaud your courage in using this toxic relationship as an opportunity to better understand basic human behaviors. The PDs we are discussing are called "spectrum disorders" because every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all of these PD traits (albeit, at a low level if the person is healthy). Indeed, PD traits generally are essential for survival at low levels. They become a problem only when they are so strong and persistent that they distort one's perception of other peoples' intentions, thus undermining relationships.

 

Hence, learning to spot the warning signs for PDs -- as you've already done in therapy and online -- will help you have a better understanding of your own behavior. And it will help you avoid running into the arms of another woman just like the one you left. If you are interested, I describe what it's like to live with a BPDer at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings any bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, Aaron.

[preraph]

I hate to say it, but I think this woman pretended to be your perfect woman because she was a golddigger. Once that arrangement was over, she went back to her true con-artist self. I think you were very in love with the pretender and now you were very shocked and betrayed by the sociopathic things she's done and how she is now. I think you lost trust in yourself because of this. That leaves a hole. You're thinking how could someone act like they love me and not love me? Not many people can or will. But one out of 100 is unempathetic enough to do just about anything to get what they want, in this case, money.

 

I'm so sorry you got used and thrown away here. But I'm glad you learned it while you're still not too old to learn from it because there are a whole lot of con artists out there preying on men 10, 15 years older than you and taking all their money right under their noses by pretending to care about them.

[AaronSG]

I would first like to take a moment and thank all those who posted here, it means a lot to me and is very much appreciated.

 

Next, Downtown your post most of all was terribly informative and I hate to say it, but your post made kind of sit in my office chair and as I was reading all your insightful examples, I kept getting that "deer in the head lights" look and feel. Because most off all the examples your were giving in comparison to my ex-faince, when it came to "spectrum disorders" fit what my ex-faince is, what I had known of her past to have been, and even knew it fit with the little glimmers of rumored things I hear about her now, the "spectrum disorder" thing very much is like scoring a "bull's eye" on a dart board, and let me tell you Downtown, I think you hit the bull's eye!

 

Thank you for providing me some further information as so I can research some of it on my own, you aimed me into some pretty juicy information and facts and figures about the disorder. Over here we had no clue as to what "spectrum disorders" were, we didn't even really know about them or more important, we didn't know that we might had been factoring the right symptoms into the wrong disorder. We all pretty much were just reserved that my ex-fiance fit into the stereo type of a sociopath, because all the other fancy psychological labels didn't really fit. Due to being at a handicap as far as not knowing about "spectrum disorders" we could only assess with what we only knew.

 

But let me tell you, since having now close to 24 hours to digest and research and watch a couple related You Tube videos about this stuff, I'm amazed at what I'm finding. Just to hit on some of what you've said to me, stuff that hit home the most....

 

"Hence, when a BPDer becomes infatuated with you, she will emulate features of your personality and will suddenly enjoy the activities and people you enjoy."

 

Now that I've had time to reflect and ponder about this "mirroring" thing is a fit! For my ex-faince first came to me with her own sets of ideas and traits and personality and way of doing things, likes and dislikes, loves and hate's, interests and such. But in very short order I saw what she thought she stood for and the all that she claimed that she stood upon quickly dissolve away. At nearly "warp speed" she just about dropped everything that she thought that made her, her and quickly jumped aboard with everything I was into, with my likes and dislikes, loves and hate's, my interests, she even started to exhibit some of my own personal traits, in regards on how I do things maybe even with a little in the ways I talk, but I thought at the time it was flattering and interesting and didn't give it any thought. But now to come to find out she was morphing into basically the woman of my dreams in very quick fashion by now coming to understand that she was "mirroring" me and the people around me, it fit's!

 

It therefore sounds like her bold move to live with you -- at the urging of parents who considered you a ready source of money -- was done mainly to please them and, to a lesser extent, to her desire to eventually switch her dependency from them to you

 

And for a period of time, let me tell you, she indeed switch her dependency upon me! She became dependent upon everything that me and my family could provide her, housing, food, clothing, beauty products, money, access to my friends, access to my family, day trips out of town, restaurant visits, movie theater visits, shopping mall visits, thrift store trips, everything very quickly became based upon what everyone else could do and provide for her, and not really so much as to what she could do for herself.

 

 

Side Note On Dependency Or Trying To Lock Me In Due To The Fear Of Losing The Dependency!

 

No more than a week into our relationship she was turning up the heat about the fact that we need to "have kids" and that was always followed up with "the sooner the better"! Also, no more than 2-3 weeks into the relationship she was already talking about her strong desire to have us move out of State. She kept rambling on at times on how she'd like to move far away, where no one knew her and kept going on at times about wanting her "fresh start"! Perhaps everything she said was true and shouldn't be analyzed for content, but it stirs up two things in my head, and in the head of one person I've talked about this late last night, we both agree that if you look upon this from what we know about her, she was probably fearful about ever losing her dependency on me, she wanted to make sure she kept it, for knowing she didn't have one thing to fall back upon, other than her parents and their home back in Ohio. We think that by her wanting to have kid's so early in the game, that would be a sure shot solid way to keep me and everything that me and my family and friends could do for her "locked in"! Basically Christopher last night told me that it sounded to him that she was trying to trap you by wanting to rush into to the having kid's so fast. Also the fact that she wanted to move away so fast, to Christopher, it sounded to him that she might have been desiring to move you away from your support network and everyone in it, due to mire fact that it kind of sounded like she just wanted you to herself and didn't want anyone you knew within a 1000 miles of you, as so she could have you all to herself. Also we litely tossed the idea around that not only did it sound like she might have wanted to isolate me from support network, but maybe there's a chance that she was running from something. She might have been compelled to want to move out of a almost "worry free" and "ready made home" for her, due to the fact that she was wanting to run away as so something couldn't find her. We don't know what the "something" might be, but to Christopher it sounded a little bit like some "run away mentality" to him!

 

BPDers frequently use all-or-nothing expressions like "You ALWAYS..." and "You NEVER...." It also will be evident in how they categorize everyone at polar extremes, i.e., as "all good" or "all bad" and as "with me" or "against me"."

 

Oh my gosh, tons of that stuff, she loved to toss around saying that something or someone was either "with me" or their "against me" and if she thought something was against her, dear oh my, that issue didn't last very long, for she would do everything in her limited powers to try and isolate the problem and by using whatever means, never allow it to affect the home again....I.E....as so by pushing problem people out of our lives, namely for her own good, not mine! And there was tons of times that I witnessed her with various people use the terms "you always" or "you never" she sure had a propensity to cluster in people into these two limited category's, the "you always" and "with me" or "you never" and "against me"!

 

A recent study of BPD, for example, found that 70% of the BPDers reported they had been abused or abandoned by a parent in childhood.

 

I'll only sight examples that at least have had two different people, non corroborating, as to have confirmed the examples of abuse and exposure to questionable behaviors given to me.

 

(1) Exposure to life long domestic violence between parents!

(2) Exposure to life long verbal abuse of her Mother from her Father!

(3) Exposure to life long alcoholism of her Father!

(4) Exposure to her Fathers "off & on" again bouts with his Morphine habits!

(5) Suffering at the hands of her Father and various family members physical abuse.

(6) Suffering at the hands of her Father and various family members constant bouts of verbal abuse.

(7) One confirmed source verified to the best of their ability that around the time of the 2nd grade she suffered a couple bouts of sexual abuse from her Father, and one time from her own uncle.

(8) Suffering at the hands of her Sister's various bouts of both verbal and physical abuse because my ex-fiance's weight issues. Namely taunting and teasing her constantly because of her weight problems.

(9) Suffering at the hands of her Mother, whom if she takes any medications that by chance have a steroid in them, she rages. She has raged to the point of physical abuse upon my ex-faince at various times in her life.

(10) Exposure to her Fathers manipulations of both people and institutions!

(11) Exposure to her Mother and Fathers dishonesty towards people and institutions.

(12) Exposure to her Father legal problems, namely having the Columbus Police Departments S.W.A.T. team around the ages of 8 to 9 years old, raid her childhood home, having a loaded gun pointed in her face for minutes, as so the Police could deal with shutting down some of her Fathers illegal activities, which the illegal activities were never told to me. But the raid part of the story was told to me, by three different people.

(13) Exposure to about 6 to 7 times her family had to up root and re-locate due to her parents propensity towards bad money management as in "couldn't afford to pay the rent", my ex-faince apparently could never settle in anywhere to the point of feeling secure about her environment.

(14) And the last example......Exposure to 2 to 3 different times in her life where her Fathers abuse went beyond verbal and physical, it ventured forth into the territory of "threats of murder"! For 2 to 3 times as a child my ex-faince witnessed her Father beating his Mother to the floor and not being satisfied with just a beat down, he then went and got his 9mm handgun and pointed into his wife's face, all the while yelling things like "you better start listening to me b*tch" or "you better start doing as your told b*tch" and lastly....."I'm the King up in this mother f**ker, your nothing, your scum, the dirt under my shoes is more important than you!"! I had this story verified by three different people, who all said it was true and that her Father did do that.

 

One of the hallmarks of BPD, NPD, and ASPD is the refusal to accept responsibility for one's own actions. And, because BPDers have no sense of who they really are, they may be the worst when it comes to blameshifting.

 

sadly to say that here at the end, and I look back upon the experience of my relationship as a whole, I can agree that there was tons of "blame shifting" going on! For whatever reason or reasons the problems that either we as a couple or she as an individual had always had to be someone else fault. Even if she was proven to be at fault for creating or generating a problem, it was never her fault, she would always pawn the blame off to something or someone else. Pretty much I usually took the brunt when it come to the blame shifting, sometimes I was just amazed with how effortlessly she would slip right out of being on the "hot seat" for something and skillfully and eloquently put someone else on that hot seat, as she would then slip out of the blame for the problem and ramble on about how someone else is to blame and generate examples, even if dishonest, as to why that person may be at fault.

 

a BPDer is so blinded initially by infatuation that she is convinced you are the nearly perfect man

 

Oh yeah, in very short order, and I mean at like "warp speed" she was constantly bombing me with terms like "your so perfect" or "your the man I had always dreamed to be with" or "your my soul mate and if you ever left me I'd probably have to kill myself because no other man will do" and "I feel like you were created just for me"! Bomb after bomb after bomb of this love stuff, all with statements as already described attached.

 

those three PDs are the ones most notorious for making the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds. BPD is especially bad in this regard and likely produces more "crazymaking" behavior than narcissism and sociopathy combined. The result is that therapists see far more of the abused partners coming in for therapy -- to find out if they are really going crazy -- than is ever seen of the BPDers themselves.

 

Crazy thinking, you want crazy thinking, yeah, after she departed I felt like I was going out of my mind, not because I was badly missing her, this wasn't the type of going crazy because you are missing someone, no, this was real life mental crazy that I was feeling! I got to a point where I couldn't take the crazy thing anymore, I went to a local hospital and checked myself into their psychiatric wing! I spent 5 days there, meeting with social workers, talking to their resident psychiatrists and through just about every time I would rewind the VHS tape and play the situation back for them, step by step, all of it, they sometimes would joke and ask me if my ex-faince was still in town, I'd ask why? They sometimes would tell me that she sounds like she need professional help as well, and that if she would have still been here they'd commit her a**!

 

But there's a little side note to the crazy factor, through all that I've endured at the hands of my ex-faince and her family, all that I've gone through, I knew enough to know when to say when and got myself the professional help I needed. My ex-faince, forget it, for anyone to expect that after returning back home in Ohio is going to take any step up to the plate and seek out help for herself, forget it! Because at certain times in our relationship when times might had been a little rough, I'd suggest that perhaps we seek out some help and go see a consoler of some sort, to help us get us through this hard time. Her response to every suggestion "No way Aaron, your dreaming, people like us don't do consolers, we never have and never will".....and that was that and would kill that conversation!

 

Unlike her, I've since been maintaining seeing my psychiatrist and taking my prescribed medications. Also maintaining my attendance at my 3 weekly support groups meetings and talking with a new therapist. I got the help I needed, my ex-faince, her people don't do mental health help! So any chance that she could have been assisted by seeking out trained professional mental health advisors since being back home, as to maybe help her learn and evolve from this, it ain't going to happen! In essence, her and her people appear to enjoy being stuck right where they are, for what ever reason(s) they like being where they are at in life, or perhaps fear getting help because like when you peel back an onion, it exposes layers and layers, maybe there's something inside those layers her and her people don't want anyone to see, just a thought!

 

the logical consequence of her choosing to abuse and betray you is that she is to be cut out of your life entirely

 

Done, I have maintained strict "no contact" with her since that hurtful phone call back on August 7th, when she blasted me with such things like "I don't care about you anymore" and "I don't care what you and family do with their lives" and "a real man would have cared enough to keep helping my family" and "you need to get some help Aaron, you've got issues, and your issues alone drove me away from you" and "Don't call me or talk to me anymore about anything, we're done, we're over and I'm glad, for at least I'm back with the true people who love me" and "get yourself better for the next woman you'll meet, get better and don't make the same mistakes with her as you did with me" ect. ect. ect...........it was a very hurtful and unbelievable phone call............but once again, everyone else is to blame! Never once coming clean as towards what her parts of our demise were, nope, never, she never uttered anything as towards taking responsibility for anything, she always loved to make it someone else fault.

 

So I've maintained strict "no contact" and have since then deleted my Facebook account, deleted my Instagram account, deactivated my Twitter account and submitted my letter of resignation to my now former on-line gaming group, the very group that I meet my ex-faince in all those years ago, I quit the group as to not to take the chance of bumping into her on the groups voice communications program, or running into her on one of their game servers! I've also blocked her from accessing my You Tube channel and have also blocked her through my phone company and e-mail services.

 

I feel like I'm just taking my first baby steps as towards researching these "spectrum disorders" but with what little I know about them right now, I'd have to guess that my ex-faince falls more so within the "DPD" side of the spectrum! I'm just making a educational guess, but I'd say that's where she fits!

 

This all has been very helpful to me Downtown, thank you for this and giving me the opportunity to do further study and research, as so I can do my best to learn something here. Mainly as so I might not make the same mistakes twice, and that is to attract and get a woman like my ex-faince back into my life again!

Edited November 2, 2014 by AaronSG

[Downtown]

Aaron, thanks for the prompt feedback. I'm glad to hear you found the information helpful.

 

Over here we had no clue as to what "spectrum disorders" were.

All ten personality disorders (PDs) are spectrum disorders. A disorder like BPD, for example, is not something -- like chickenpox -- that you "have" or "don't have." Rather, it is something we all have to some degree. This reality is not apparent in the APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5) because anyone falling short of satisfying 100% of the diagnostic criteria is said to "not have the disorder." This is as silly as categorizing everyone above 6'5" as "tall" and everyone below that height as "short."

 

Of course, psychologists have been well aware of this silliness since the PD categories were adopted in 1980. They nonetheless adopted this absurd binary approach to diagnosing PDs largely because the courts (who don't like to institutional people) and the insurance companies (who don't like to pay for treatment) insisted on a diagnostic bright line that would be set very high. Moreover, the psychologists feared that a graduated approach to diagnosis (e.g., low, normal, moderate, strong, severe) might produce inconsistent results all over the country.

 

Hence, the binary ("yes" or "no") approach the APA adopted has been an embarrassment to the psychiatric community for nearly 35 years -- a problem they are in the process of correcting. The graduated approach almost made it into the new manual released last year (i.e., DSM-5) but, at the last minute, the APA membership decided to delay its introduction until more research has been done.

 

We think that by her wanting to have kid's so early in the game, that would be a sure shot solid way to keep me ... "locked in"!

Yes, both BPDers and DPDers tend to quickly "lock in" the relationship because both groups have a great fear of abandonment. But there also are differences between these two groups.

 

The primary difference is that, whereas DPDers are emotionally stable, the BPDers are unstable. Indeed, BPD is the only PD for which a defining trait is instability. As I understand it, the main reason for this instability is that BPDers have not only a great fear of abandonment (like the DBPers) but also a great fear of engulfment, i.e., the feeling of being controlled or suffocated by your strong personality during intimacy.

 

This instability primarily arises from the fact that these two fears lie at the opposite ends of the VERY SAME spectrum. This means that the BPDer is always in a lose-lose situation. As she moves away from one fear to avoid triggering it, she necessarily is drawing closer to triggering the other fear. That is, as she pushes you away to stop the suffocating feeling of engulfment, she will start feeling -- a few days or weeks later -- a strong fear of abandonment. The result is that a BPDer typically goes through a repeated cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back. Indeed, it is this repeating push-pull cycle that is the strongest sign of emotional instability.

 

I'd have to guess that my ex-fiance falls more so within the "DPD" side of the spectrum!

Yes, that was my guess too. I suspect that DPD explains more than BPD for two main reasons. One is that BPDers are unstable and you've not mentioned anything about your Ex being emotionally unstable, as would be indicated by repeated instances of push-away and pull-back. Such a cycle, as I explained above, would occur if she also has an engulfment fear in addition to the abandonment fear.

 

An interesting issue, then, is whether you saw behavior indicating a strong engulfment fear. Of course, she would not have said, "I am feeling engulfed and suffocated by your strong personality, Aaron." Instead, what happens is that her subconscious protects her from the rising fear by creating anger and projecting it onto you.

 

At a conscious level, she is totally unaware of the projection and only knows that she is angry with YOU -- at which point she will create an argument, over absolutely nothing at all, to push you away. Moreover, she will be firmly convinced the absurd allegation coming out of her mouth is true. And, because this engulfment will be the worst during intimate moments, a BPDer generally will create the very WORST fights immediately after or during the very BEST of times, e.g., right after an intimate evening or in the middle of a great vacation. Does this sound familiar?

 

The other reason I feel BPD may play a secondary role is that BPDers are filled with self loathing and hurt carried from childhood. When one of their two fears is triggered, they typically release their anger outward by throwing a temper tantrum lasting several hours. This is why nearly all the descriptions you find online about BPDers describe them as being very verbally abusive and loud -- a description that doesn't match anything you've said about your Ex.

 

Instead, you say that the closest she ever came to badmouthing you was the time she left you and arrived at her parents' house, at which point she said you were a bad person (most likely to please her parents). It therefore sounds like she doesn't have the anger problem that is so characteristic of BPDers.

 

Yet, before we jump to that easy conclusion, I note that a small portion of BPDers (I would guess 5% to 10%) react to fear by turning their anger inward, not outward. I mention this group because this turning the anger inward is far more self destructive than releasing it outward onto a loved one. So, not surprisingly, this group is much more inclined to do self mutilation, like the repeated vagina cutting done by your Ex. Hence, when expressing their anger, these folks do "acting in" instead of "acting out."

 

Because these "act in" BPDers usually do not yell or throw temper tantrums, they are called "quiet borderlines" in the literature. This does not imply, however, that they won't punish you when angry. You will be punished but they will do it "quietly" with snide, passive-aggressive remarks or actions -- or with icy silence, cold withdrawal, and sulking. Like all other BPDers, they are convinced they are victims. They tend to carry that notion to a greater extreme, however, by portraying themselves as helpless, poor little victims (e.g., "Oh woe is me"). Does this sound familiar?

 

I ask because, if your Ex really did exhibit emotional instability and passive-aggressive displays of anger, I would have to conclude that you are describing behaviors closer to BPD than DPD. So far, however, you've said nothing pointing to that conclusion.

 

I might not make the same mistakes twice, and that is to attract and get a woman like my ex-fiance back into my life again!

Aaron, I realize you dated several healthy women before living with your Ex. Yet, if she is a DPDer and/or BPDer as you suspect, your problem over the next year or two will not be attracting those women but, rather, seeking them out. Once you've been placed high on a pedestal and adored as God's gift to womankind, you likely will find it difficult "to settle" for a normal, healthy woman for a while. That, at least, has been my experience.

 

What I did was to give myself time to heal before dating and then, when I started going out, I had to keep reminding myself -- on every date -- not to expect the intense passion and fireworks one is able to enjoy within the first two weeks with a BPDer. Moreover, I found myself wanting to walk right on past all of the emotionally available women (BORING!) until I found a woman who desperately needs me. Because they are masters at projecting vulnerability (think "Marilyn Monroe"), I've never had to worry about attracting them because I can spot their vulnerability across a crowded room. It is "catnip" to excessive caregivers like me.

 

Thank you for providing me some further information as so I can research some of it on my own

At risk of overwhelming you, Aaron, I will suggest three more titles. Because it is so difficult to find any good information about quiet BPDers online, I will mention two articles: Schreiber's Borderline WAIFS and Mahari's Quiet Borderlines. If one of those descriptions matches your Ex's behavior, it most likely would be Schreiber's discussion of the quiet BPDers, whom she calls "waifs." I also suggest you read Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with BPD. It is my favorite of the 15 articles at BPDfamily. Even if your Ex's issue is predominantly DPD, I believe you will find that article helpful.

[AaronSG]

Thank you Downtown for your continued insight in regards to my matter, it is very much appreciated.

 

Now I'm just going to do my best to try and hit on some of what you've said and perhaps give the best answers I can.....

 

you've not mentioned anything about your Ex being emotionally unstable

 

This is sort of hard thing to gauge in regards to my ex-faince, while I was with her she almost never shed one tear about anything. Excluding December-12-2013, on that night a phone call came in from her Father, before talking to his Daughter he wanted to make sure I was up and awake enough to deal with what he had to tell her, no problem Dad, I'm up and for her any way I can. The phone then got handed to my ex-faince and at that time he advised her that her Sister has tragically died in a car accident, she was dead and so forth. That night and subsequent days following my ex-faince cried, screamed, wallowed, sobbed, shook her fist at God, a large amount of "why's"? But other than that situation I never really witnessed my ex-faince be overly emotional about anything, sometimes to the point where I once in a while thought that she might have been void of expressing emotions, or on some levels incapable of having emotions! But let me tell you, where she might have been naturally weak in the empathetic and sympathetic and crying department, she made up for with almost giving off the sense that perhaps her primary emotion was anger. She used to love to boast to me and others that she was the type to never let go of a grudge, and better yet, she boasted how she'd never forgive anyone that she has a grudge with! And at some very, and I mean super rare moments, she did tip her hand a little and tell myself once and some others that her main emotion is being "mad"!

 

Yes, both BPDers and DPDers tend to quickly "lock in" the relationship because both groups have a great fear of abandonment

 

That's what we thought, the example of wanting us to start popping out kid's so soon in our relationship to others was a huge "red flag", which we now kind of know why, she wanted to "lock me in" as so to have almost a guarantee that I would never leave her!

 

As far as the second part of that, the "abandonment" factor, I would suspect after all the childhood examples I gave in my previous post, the always moving around as a child and never being allowed to feel comfortable in any one place, never feeling secure with her always fluctuating childhood environments, seeing her Father as a child drug away several times by Police and feeling the abandonments with each situation, while with me, her continued paranoia about who she might lose next, her child and adult isolation by living the bulk of her life in a bedroom and pretty much only having a computer with the Internet as her only contact with the outside world, her sensitivity towards what people think of her and hoping that they think enough of her to stay in her life ect. ect. ect. the list could go on!

 

That is, as she pushes you away to stop the suffocating feeling of engulfment

 

The "engulfment" factor, as far as I can tell there was none! She never gave any indications that my "at times" intense love that I could bring upon her was making her feel uncomfortable. She never once complained about me ever "smothering" her or perhaps "leave me alone and give me some space", she never once said anything close to that. If anything I was always getting the continued impression that I wasn't smothering her enough, for she would really press herself upon me almost constantly, as if she almost always wanted "more and more" and that "enough was never enough" when it came to me drowning her with my love, with my gift, with my time, with my money, she never ever told me she felt smothered or engulfed!

 

I note that a small portion of BPDers (I would guess 5% to 10%) react to fear by turning their anger inward

 

My ex-faince soon showed me through examples on how she handles such things as anger and stress, she showed me that she was a "stuffer", very slow to express or show anger "outwards" almost always with normal everyday frustrations and stress she would suppress rather than express! But when it came to the not so normal common variety anger and stress, you know, that multi-dimensional anger, the type that involves one to think outside the world of things being just "black and white", if she ever had to deal with anything that would thrust her into the world of the "gray area", forget it, she'd blow a head gasket, if anything, and I mean anything made her feel like she was inside the "gray area" or show her that there is indeed something other than "black and white" and she'd have to face the fact that sometimes with situations there is a "gray area", talk about her turning into Mount Saint Helen's, watch out world, her she blows!

 

Like all other BPDers, they are convinced they are victims. They tend to carry that notion to a greater extreme, however, by portraying themselves as helpless, poor little victims (e.g., "Oh woe is me"). Does this sound familiar?

 

Oh hell yeah, this sounds very familiar indeed! Tons of "boo hoo" stories, tons of "let me tell you what they did to me" or "everyone is out to get me, I need to watch my back" or "everyone seems to want to hurt my feelings" ect. ect. ect. She sure could roll with the "I'm a victim" story's! Interesting thing is, she'd sometimes go one further and justify by providing evidence, real or fictional, in regards to why she's the victim and everyone else is to blame!

 

Instead, you say that the closest she ever came to badmouthing you was the time she left you and arrived at her parents' house, at which point she said you were a bad person (most likely to please her parents)

 

Yes, the bulk of her "badmouthing" or "trash talking" me was days after her return home to Ohio. The premise to that August 7th phone call wasn't to be critical, or judging of her. I merely called her to make sure she made it back home safe and sound, to make sure she was alright, and yes I'm guilty of of one thing during that call, and that is my issue with being codependent. Because even after she left me all "scorched Earth" style, after all that I told her "if there's anything you might need more from me in the future, give me a call, we'll talk about it"! But she didn't once appreciate the fact that I was concerned, no, she just wanted to go all "World War III" on me, perhaps her parents were there, listening in on the phone call, making sure she bottom lined everything harshly, so that her parents felt certain that they were done with me once and for all.

 

But there were some minor moments that when she was with me, she'd give me a little badmouthing, especially when she felt that such things as her education were coming into question! She was super sensitive about how people perceived her, especially when it came to her limited education, she never liked feeling that people were judging her on her education, or judging her with what she knew. If she ever felt like she was being judged or perceived as a 2nd grade drop out, man she'd blow the roof off the place! Another "hot button" as towards getting some badmouthing would be if anyone talked badly about her family! If she felt like her family was being judged in any way, or if certain proven facts would come up in conversation with myself, with my family or friends, if anyone brought up anything about how bad her parents were, she's blow a head gasket and badmouth anyone who might be uttering such words.

 

So what do you think?

 

Downtown I do appreciate the help here, it is very much helping me to realize a great many things! Also, this process your graciously going through with me here is also helping my healing! Thing are now in better perspective for me, I'm starting to understand as to why she was the way she was. I'm starting to realize that I was less and less the primary cause of her anger, frustrations, her issues rather it be adult or child issues, I'm realizing that I had very little to do with those. I'm now more so feeling like I was a fancy new car sitting at a car dealership and here comes along my ex-faince who wanted to do nothing more than take me out for a very long test drive, and when the test drive was over, she appeared to have no reservations about returning me back to the dealership and walking off the car lot, never to return! Rumor has it she's already targeted her next "test drive", it's someone I know, one of the members of my former on-line gaming group! She had lite interests in this person before she met me! Now I guess she might have the opportunity to take another car out on a test drive, I hope this test drive goes better than the one she took with me, I hope this one at least get's some considerations as to being worthy enough towards buying!

 

I'd love to warn him off, but he's the type of person who likes to think he's got all the answers and always boasts to people that he's the type of person who always knows what he's doing! So I wish him the best of luck and forgive me if I think out load........."better him than me"! And when he figures out when it's to late what he's gotten himself into...........at that point........may God have mercy upon his soul!

 

Again thanks for everything, I look forward to see what you think of my responses!

Edited November 3, 2014 by AaronSG

[Downtown]

If she ever had to deal with anything that would thrust her into the world of the "gray area", forget it, she'd blow a head gasket.... talk about her turning into Mount Saint Helen's, watch out world, her she blows!

Aaron, what does "blowing a head gasket" and the volcano analogy imply? I ask because you don't describe her as being tempestuous or throwing temper tantrums. Instead, you state that "there were some minor moments that when she was with me, she'd give me a little badmouthing."

 

So what do you think?

What really matters is what YOU think, Aaron. You likely know a thousand times more about her behaviors over the past two years than any human being on the planet. My goal, then, is to simply point you to good information about PD traits so you can decide, for yourself, which warning signs seem to apply.

 

As for the behaviors you describe in this thread, I still feel they are most consistent with DPD red flags -- together with a few overlapping traits of BPD. Your description does not suggest a predominance of BPD traits because, as I noted above, that would require emotional instability to be strong and persistent.

 

This process is also helping my healing! Things are now in better perspective for me.

Most guys walking away from a failed relationship will heal the fastest when focusing on their own issues and not looking back. That doesn't work too well, however, for us caregivers emerging from a toxic relationship. We have so much empathy and such low personal boundaries that we become too "enmeshed" with our partner's personality -- to the point that we have difficulty seeing where "our problems" end and "her problems" begin.

 

Hence, although it seems counter-intuitive, the quickest way for us to start seeing our own issues is to spend a few days figuring out the contribution our partner made to the toxicity. Then, by subtraction, we are able to more easily see what our contribution to the problem was. Namely, we are able to see that our repeated efforts "to help her" constituted enabling behavior that was counter-productive.

 

I'm now feeling like I was a fancy new car sitting at a car dealership and here comes along my ex-fiance who wanted to do nothing more than take me out for a very long test drive. Rumor has it she's already targeted her next "test drive."

Nice analogy. It likely is closer to the truth than you imagine. Although DPDers and BPDers love very intensely, they do so in an immature manner that often results in splitting -- where the loving feelings are placed out of reach of the conscious mind. The result is that, while these folks can love very intensely, there is a shallowness to that love because it will seem to be turned off and on like a light switch. The analogy I often use is that their feelings are like a river that is a mile wide and an inch deep.

 

This shallowness means that, despite the intensity of their need for others, they do not necessarily attach strongly to specific individuals. This means that, although the woman feels deeply attached to you, she is more attached to the role you play than she is to your personal attributes as an individual. This also means she likely will become quickly and indiscriminately attached to others when she loses you (or loses interest in you). Hence, it is the strength of the dependency needs that is being addressed and the attachment figures (e.g., YOU) are basically interchangeable. When you are no longer someone she can rely on, her attachment to others may be a haphazard process of securing the protection of the most readily available person having the power to provide nurturance and care.

[SoThatHappened]

Aaron,

 

Your post strikes a chord with me as I'm fairly certain my ex exhibited strong BPD traits. If it's not BPD, it's something that's "not normal", for lack of a better term.

 

As usual, Downtown is superb in providing information.

 

I will tell you that my ex left me somewhat scarred, more than any woman has before. I'm 34, and have had short-term and long-term relationships end. I spent 7 months with the last ex, and came out of it a different person. Completely and utterly confused is how I could describe it.

 

Learning about PD's helps a ton in trying to make sense of things. Downtown and others have helped me a lot when trying to reason why my ex could/would do the things she did.

 

However, what truly helped me, was to realize that there are things I can't fix or change when it comes to someone with these traits. I spent a few weeks delving into BPD and PD's in general, saying "aha!, that's it!" the whole time.

 

But, I didn't move on until I realized that there was nothing I could do, and there was nothing I could change. That, essentially, I dodged a bullet.

 

I spent more time wanting to prove my ex was "damaged" than I did working on myself and why I ignored so many red flags in the first place.

 

I was as naive as anyone because as you mentioned, none of the other women from my past exhibited these traits. Therefore, I didn't have a past experience on which to base the latest red flags.

 

You're hurting and probably think you're nuts. It's normal, and it's healthy that you can hurt (meaning you can still love) and that you can try to process things like a normal-functioning person.

 

However, I moved on after I realized that no matter what problems my ex had, I'm better off. It took a while, but you will get there too.

 

You'll still have feelings and some hurt, but once you start trying to look at it from a logical perspective, you'll feel much better.

 

Imagine if you married this girl and had children. That has helped me immensely.

[Gatema]

Downtown.....

I think there should be a prerequisite in place before people are allowed to join LS. That requirement would be reading your last few posts to Aaron.

 

When people are in dire need to find some answers associated with their break up, in my opinion, reading your comments would help them significantly.

 

You've taken some very challenging, comprehensive, and factual research and given it clarity to those less familiar with this topic area.

 

I appreciate your masterfully written, and precisely done pithiness, using the lexicon most often used in the discovery, or the search for, those with a suspected personality disorder.

 

Bravo!

[AaronSG]

Thank you one and all for your continued participation here in this topic area! It is very much appreciated and all the information that has been contributed here so far has been very helpful and very informative. So thanks guy's, now I'll do my best to address some people here and do my best to try and answer some questions or at highlight and hit on some things.....

 

preraph........you said

 

I hate to say it, but I think this woman pretended to be your perfect woman because she was a golddigger

 

You know preraph I made the very big mistake on actually once upon a time calling that to her face! There was day, I'd say pretty close to maybe like 9-10 months back that we kind of got ourselves into a heated late night discussion, and wouldn't you guess what the topic was about, yup, it was about money! So here she is, telling me that here real soon we should think abut perhaps sending more money to her parents, for they wanted to start to plan some sort of a quick out of town day trip some where and needed some assistance doing it. Mind you, we'd just got done a week earlier sending her parents $75.00 via Pay Pal, to help pay their gas bill and to put some gas in their truck! And now here we were, once again having a conversation about money and how so urgent it is to forward some more the her parents. I must have woke up on the wrong side of the bed that day, because during my little rant about how much more do I need to do for these people, she said...'as much as it takes, after all I'm your Fiance and their going to be your in-laws, don't you want to be a good man and help your family out? My answer, if I recall, I think I might have yelled something like "If this is your version of what a being a member of your family means, being money hungry all the time, I want no part in being a member of a family that are nothing but a bunch of money sucking gold diggers!

 

Let me tell you, that did it, the volcano blew it's top, tons of "how dare you's" and a lot of "your a real jerk for saying that" and "you got the nerve to call us gold diggers, okay silver spoon in the mouth boy" and "them fighting words Aaron" and finally "tread litely Aaron, tread litely, for you never quite know what might happen next"! So yeah, telling everyone that night that they all were nothing but a bunch of gold diggers, it didn't fair to well for me, I think that night I ended up sleeping on the sofa.

 

But yes, I agree, gold diggers would be a proper term as to describe these people!

 

Downtown.....you asked

 

Aaron, what does "blowing a head gasket" and the volcano analogy imply?

 

Well, in short, it's kind of just what it sounds like, if my ex-faince was to say "blow a head gasket" that means her anger had gotten the best of her to the point where she kind of went verbally crazy motivated by pure anger. Kind of like a cafe mocha at Starbucks, you know that white colored froth on top, imagine thats verbal anger and the employee making the drink wasn't paying attention and that froth in droves ran over the lip of the glass and just kept running down the side of the glass and dripped all over the floor, that analogy is what she would do by blowing a head gasket, her verbality would run-ith-over and in the end, like with the mocha that has now dripped all over the floor, in the end, the result of her verbality could be very messy as well. Also the volcano analogy fit's this example as well, for both mean pretty much the same thing.

 

SoThatHappened......you said

 

Imagine if you married this girl and had children. That has helped me immensely!

 

Oh yeah, let me tell you, that with the situation now over and the dust in many ways is now settling for me, and now that I can think about much more clearly, oh yeah, I'm now so glad that there wasn't a marriage to deal with, but more important than that, I'm now so more glad that we didn't have children. A marriage can be "gotten out of", I should know, back in 2008 I went through a divorce. I know marriage's can be ended, but children, there's no end to that. I would have then been permanently linked with my ex-faince for life, just on the mire fact that we had a kid together. Oh my, compared to where she came from and went through as a child and compared to what I lovingly went through as a child, talk about the clashing of two much different parenting styles. The fact that there was no marriage and the fact that there were no children to me now a days is a "blessing"!

 

Gatema......you said

 

When people are in dire need to find some answers associated with their break up, in my opinion, reading your comments would help them significantly!

 

Well thank you, I really never knew to think that perhaps the things I have said here might be a help to anyone! If any of what I've said here in regards to my own thoughts or going about answering Downtown here can help anyone else out there than I feel good. As I'm taking a dive into trying to figure this "spectrum disorder" stuff out, if anything I have to say about it, by posting it here helps anyone else out there than I feel it to have been an honor to help that individual out and perhaps educate them in the process.

 

But again thank you one and all for your participation here, again it's very much appreciated.

Edited November 5, 2014 by AaronSG

[Downtown]

If my ex-faince was to say "blow a head gasket" that means her anger had gotten the best of her to the point where she kind of went verbally crazy motivated by pure anger.... Also the volcano analogy fit's this example as well, for both mean pretty much the same thing.

Aaron, yes, I have a good idea what it's like to blow a head gasket or explode like a volcano. What confuses me, however, is reconciling those statements about her erupting into rages with your comment about her never badmouthing you until the August phone call. I also am unable to reconcile it with your following comment:

 

But other than that situation I never really witnessed my ex-faince be overly emotional about anything, sometimes to the point where I once in a while thought that she might have been void of expressing emotions, or on some levels incapable of having emotions! [Your post #10.]

[SoThatHappened]

A marriage can be "gotten out of"...

A joke I'll never forget from a comedian I can't remember:

 

"When I got married, I thought, 'This is it. I can't bail now.'

 

Then when we had kids, I thought, '$h!t!!! I coulda left!'"

 

Not much to do with this thread, but a little comedic relief that rings true.