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Was I inept with this.


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I found myself with a predictable yet unusual problem. The crux of it is the date I want to see again isn't interested in me "in that way" so I pretty much got friend zoned from the off. Sometimes I don't know what is wrong with me because this always happens, there is someone else who does sort of like me but doesn't very little for me despite the first date being one of the better ones I have been on.

 

Why do I like the first one more, more common ground basically. For some stupid reason I cannot divorce dating from business so I look at dates much like I would a business deal, yes I'll get slaughtered for saying that but I am being honest. One person lives 15 miles away, the other 100 miles away so already one is off to a better start.

 

I thought I showed enough interest in girl 1 but she flagged me as being "inexperienced" after one date so I think I was pretty much friend zoned then and there. I didn't help my cause much by trying to compete with a guy she is talking to who lives 1000 miles a way. Anyway after the conversation went dead I tried to revive it to be told "I don't see you like that" which I guess is a physical attraction thing.

 

Just seems I cannot win at this, I win at what I do not want and fail at what I do want. Anyone else go through this over and over again?

 

Again I am forced to look at the fundamentals here, what I could have done better, what more I could have done and its hard to understand what but clearly something didn't work.

 

Girl two isn't viable, we had one date and there is nothing left to talk about so not too sure what to talk to her about.

 

Ultimately I learnt and accomplished very little from either of these dates, the first lady I saw three times which is a record for me but maybe if I had seen the friend zone signs after date 1 I should have walked away. Is it ever possible to get past that?

 

I don't have anymore viable matches, had proper pictures taken, wrote a proper bio and its the same people it always is, extremely unattractive people which I guess is seemingly the best I can do. Either I let that bother me or I don't, sure it does bother me but I am determined to not allow it to consume me.

 

Though I did try an extremely awkward cold approach at a café I go to, it was shocking and I wont ever try that again. Looking is less awkward and the ultimate reward is the same: nothing.

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For some stupid reason I cannot divorce dating from business so I look at dates much like I would a business deal,.

 

obviously you have not figure out yet that dating is subjective whereas business is very objective...

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obviously you have not figure out yet that dating is subjective whereas business is very objective...

 

You'd be surprised how objective I can be about dates, years of being written off by dates after 10 minutes gave me the insight that I reserve the right to do the same thing. Nevertheless I am trying to learn something out of this one because the reality these decent dates only come around every 5 years so.

 

But maybe you are right, maybe I am too objective about it but how else do I judge the person unless I am moved/connect with them in some way.

 

The price I paid here was probably due to inexperience which is something that beyond my control to an extent. I am forced to go on endless dates to try and find some experience, most of which aren't dates I would want to go on to begin with.

 

What would you have done in this scenario?

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...due to inexperience which is something that beyond my control to an extent.

What would you have done in this scenario?

 

Here's a difference between men and women. Men tend to think they can control the outcome by what they do. They mostly can't. But it is the nature of men to focus on action. Women focus on being (hot) and feeling, but the reality is that women often can affect the outcome by their actions much more than they know.

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Lotsgoingon

Go on 100 more dates in the next three months ... In the next six months, go to gatherings, including business gatherings and talk to 100 different women--not just ones you find beautiful at first glance.

 

You gotta get your numbers up ... you also got to get away from trying to prove yourself worthy ... and instead focus on finding someone who really appreciates your passions and your interests (whatever they are).

 

It's possible that you're focusing too much on people who are significantly more attractive and socially skilled than you are ... Lots of folks do this, especially in online dating. The cure is to get out into the world and get to talking to real people whose photos you haven't seen before. You'd be amazed at how many people become instantly more attractive when you like the way they talk and when they express an interest in us.

 

To lower the performance pressure, I would say focus more on getting into interesting authentic conversations ... rather than finding a date. Get into 100 authentic conversations in the upcoming year ... and you'll run into someone you'll want to date ... and someone for whom you became instantly more attractive because you talked honestly about your passions and interests--and showed curiosity about them.

 

These rejections you're reporting ... statisticians would say ... you don't have enough numbers to come to any conclusions ... you're probably picking from a very small subset of people ... randomly a lot of them aren't your type. You're still learning the type of person who is your type and who is likely to be interested in you. You gotta get your conversation numbers up!

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This is what you do...find an honest female friend or a dating coach, and take them out on a date..go through the date in full...then let them give you the constructive criticism you need to go forward in improving your game.

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You'd be amazed at how many people become instantly more attractive when you like the way they talk and when they express an interest in us.

 

See this has zero appeal to me at all. Absolutely none. I am not allowed the same courtesy so why should I extend this? Honest question.

 

I have been down this road before, many, many times going on dates with people I hope will wow me more in person than they do on OLD, truthfully its never been the case ever.

 

Numbers, I have been down that road too, how many honestly do I need to go on dates with, with time I simply became even less accommodating of what I totally don't like and that's a very hard feeling to disguise.

 

Sure, I chat to random people most days but its business and there is a purpose to that communication. Everything I do is outcome based, it has to be for the business I am in. I do try this and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't but partly I suppose I am not exposed to people I find attractive to begin with so when I do find someone I do find attractive any game I had falls apart because suddenly its either succeed or fail.

 

At the moment my OLD is choice is zero, nobody is viable at all but more than that I cant seem to figure out how to attract anyone, maybe defeatist radiates from me as strongly as inexperienced does.

 

I maybe need to change my entire mind set but that's going to be extremely hard without any sort of actual incentive to do so. I'll restructure a business if I can see some tangible benefit to doing so but I am not seeing much tangible benefit for me because I can never get rid of the fundamental things people seem to not like. How do I make the good things good enough for people to overlook the inexperience part, I truly don't know how to do that.

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ChatroomHero

I maybe need to change my entire mind set but that's going to be extremely hard without any sort of actual incentive to do so. I'll restructure a business if I can see some tangible benefit to doing so but I am not seeing much tangible benefit for me because I can never get rid of the fundamental things people seem to not like. How do I make the good things good enough for people to overlook the inexperience part, I truly don't know how to do that.

 

 

 

 

 

1. The tangible benefit is what you are doing isn't working, changing your mind set is the only alternative. If you want a guarantee, there is none. Fight it all you want but if you don't change your mindset, you will never find a woman to date you seriously...No debate or response needed, it is what it is and you either accept that or you don't.

 

 

2. "How do I make the good things good enough for people to overlook the inexperience part"

 

 

You mention inexperience and then mention you did the numbers game and "I have been down this road before, many, many times going on dates"...so which is it, you have experience or you don't? Sounds like you have plenty of experience dating, just not long term.

 

 

If you are only getting to date #1 or Date #2, it is very easy to bypass any questions about experience with sex or LTRs. It's really easy if asked to say, "I'm not a big fan of talking about past history on a first date, nobody wants to her my crazy ex or crappy date stories on a first date" and laugh it off and leave it there.

 

 

My question is why would people have to overlook your inexperience unless you are telling them that you are inexperienced? You want to wreck a relationship early on? Be honest and forthright and wear your heart on your sleeve and tell a girl, "here I am, take me for who I am". Frankly, by date 3 or 4 the only thing a girl really knows about me is my personality and my sense of humor. She does not know my experience, family history, political views, dating history...

 

 

3. You keep talking about your business and business success...irrelevant other than the sales process. If you have a product that is pretty good but Nike makes a better one, you don't lead with telling them that. You upsell your product and point out the benefits of your company, or customer service, or warranty, etc.

 

 

You have posted here before and the same thing holds true. Your attitude is wrong but you won't change it unless you see an easy win, instant success. Your approach and ability to sell yourself is wrong but you seem to have a list of "things I won't do because...". You keep mentioning how great you are in the business world, I am not sure why you keep mentioning the fact that because you are successful in one area of life, it automatically means you should be able to figure out another unrelated area. It's like saying you should be a great parent some day because you really know how to close a sale. Irrelevant, let it go.

 

 

So here is what I am gleaning from your posts:

 

 

You are boring on dates. Maybe a bit pompous. You are not interesting to women. In the end, you are really unwilling to change much because you are afraid to put forth effort and still be rejected so you will remain boring and uninteresting.

 

 

You are now used to being rejected and find comfort in it because it's what you know and if you changed something up and it worked, you'd probably just sabotage it so it would fulfil your prophecy of rejection. At this point, you take comfort in failing and feeling sorry for yourself.

 

 

You're personal taste in women probably fairly surpasses your own attractiveness, but you can't overcome that gap because you are not interesting enough and not willing to do the things that make you more interesting.

 

 

I have a feeling you think you are a prize for women and get dejected when they don't drop their panties at the sight of you. In other words, you are waiting for the Leprechaun riding a Unicorn, a very hot woman to fall in love with you at first sight. You'll be waiting a while longer I expect.

 

 

Basically any time you post here and ask, "What am I doing wrong because I have tried everything and it never works"...people give responses and you seem to default to:

 

 

1. I won't do that...

2. I am not willing...

3. I have tried that...

4. I shouldn't have too...

5. If a woman is kind of crappy to me, I should be crappy back because why can't I do the same? It's not fair!

6. In business I am great at Â… so I should be great at Â… in dating.

 

 

So I am not sure why you even ask anymore. Do you really think there is one gem sitting out there that someone is going to drop on you in the forum that changes your life? Because there is not, and if there was I am pretty sure you'd respond, "Yeah, no, not going to do that" anyway.

 

 

So maybe when you ask yourself questions as to why your dates fall short, I would suggest being brutally honest with yourself. You'll find your answer. Either you're ugly, disfigured, boring as hell or have a horrible personality...it is absolutely one or more of those things for sure... Really all of those can be fixed or overcome...if you are brutally honest and own up to your flaws. I get the feeling you are willing to be honest with yourself.

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Though I did try an extremely awkward cold approach at a café I go to, it was shocking and I wont ever try that again.

 

 

I would have liked to be a fly on the wall for that one.

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Lotsgoingon
How do I make the good things good enough for people to overlook the inexperience part, I truly don't know how to do that.

 

You find your niche of people who are turned on by your particular strengths and your interests ... You don't randomly date.

 

Example ... you're worried about being inexperienced ... well ... have you gone out with inexperienced women? ... They're out there ... writing basically the same words you're writing, feeling overlooked as much as you're feeling overlooked in the same frustrating, maddening way you feel overlooked.

 

Do you have any good women friends? ... Any socially smooth guy friends? You may need one of them to go with you to some parties or receptions and hear how you talk to people. You're in business. Can you afford a dating coach?

 

Look, I'm naturally great at talking to people. Still at a critical moment in my life, I had a therapist who was basically like a life coach, who helped me take my social skills to a new level. There is no shame in getting help for socializing and meeting people and developing relationships. This therapist pointed out like five easy ways I was stepping on my own feet in talking to people and helped me change.

 

Looking back, some of the things I learned from my therapist weren't just technical (though she did have some technique stuff) but more towards a deeper understanding of humans and how we interact with each other. And so many of her insights--no way would I have gotten them on my own. No f-ing way.

 

Consider a really high-level therapist. Maybe a woman ... some of the best charge a hefty fee ... You want someone who is direct and deals with your present life ... and who has high-level social skill herself. Someone who gets you ... and help you travel that gap between where you are now and where you want to be ... without posing and being fake.

 

Like you may need to go have first sessions with several therapists until you come to someone that almost immediately you know is not just good, but is fantastic. Choosing a great therapist is like dating ... You usually know by two sessions ... often by one session ... if the person is right for you. Sometimes you know in the first few minutes of a session.

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I am not allowed the same courtesy so why should I extend this? Honest question.

 

So we're talking about getting to know a person and becoming more attracted as we get to know them. There are some very average looking men in relationships, so it's clear that men ARE given this courtesy. Perhaps not by all women, but it's far from impossible.

 

The key is that the man has to have more to offer than looks. In short, time spent with them must be enjoyable to the woman.

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so it's clear that men ARE given this courtesy. Perhaps not by all women, but it's far from impossible.

 

The key is that the man has to have more to offer than looks. In short, time spent with them must be enjoyable to the woman.

 

I have never had that courtesy extended to me. In fact I used to extend that fairly often but I realised why would I keep doing that when it served no purpose.

 

An honest question here, what should women be offering men? Unfortunately I have this (wrong) idea, well in least in theory but proven correct in practice that most women just turn up and expect to be wowed. Truthfully every date I have been on has been like that barring perhaps one, they made very little effort for the date, from appearance to anything really. I go and try be enthusiastic but get no real enthusiasm back.

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You find your niche of people who are turned on by your particular strengths and your interests ... You don't randomly date.

 

Its fairly easy to answer these questions, sure I have maybe a one or two lady friends, one has tried to set me up and credit to here the people she usually sets me up with I usually like but the people themselves never like me and to be fair I am not hugely surprised because I am not what they want, why have me if you can have a lot better.

 

I am forced to randomly date because I never find anyone I have much in common with so from the outset I am heavily compromising to be interested in things I am not.

 

Guy friends, again one or two, one is the mirror version of me, I don't think he has ever dated at all though. The other, well he has charm and humour in bucket loads so going out with him I might as well not exist because he gets all attention while I just throw in the odd sound bite of conversation, again the ladies wont be shopping for me when they can have that.

 

I have been out with awkward inexperienced women and the appeal is very low so I do understand why women don't like me. Equally I have been out with extremely dynamic, confident, attractive women and they do appeal to me even though I am never their cup of tea, which I guess is fine so I am forced to try and just look for more of those sort of faux dates because while I know nothing will come of it at least I get an enjoyable time on the date.

 

Therapists my take on them is well known here and contrary to what some believe I do speak out of a certain degree of experience with them , all that happens is my inherent want to debate happens and when questioned the advice given usually is based very little on fact but mostly on a supposition and a theory with often no practical base at all. I have done some reading and again I find myself questioning a lot these supposed dating advice books, more because I never actually seen any of this "advice" in practice. Sure, body language can work, there is no disputing that but when you think about it, no two people are the same so it figures that any advice given will never be universal.

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1. The tangible benefit is what you are doing isn't working, changing your mind set is the only alternative. If you want a guarantee, there is none. Fight it all you want but if you don't change your mindset, you will never find a woman to date you seriously...No debate or response needed, it is what it is and you either accept that or you don't.

.

 

Well I think there is a difference between finding someone to date and finding someone I want to date. I have been on lots of date and 95% of the people I did not find attractive, why did I go on these dates, well to see if in person there was some intangible attractive quality and because well people tell me its a numbers game...

 

Sure its easy to bypass but when you do they simply ask more as has happened to me often. I don't need to tell them I am inexperienced they simply see it for whatever reason, perhaps its a lack of confidence, me trying to be over come the fact I am inherently shy or the fact I don't do whatever the "dating manual" says you must do.

 

I tend to get completely unpacked in the space of one date, to the extent there is nothing to really talk about after that. My life is work, I made it so because I could then pretend I didn't want to date. What do women find interesting?

 

You right I do want some sort of win because why else would I want to change? Change for change sake is meaningless in my opinion. Irrelevant as to what dating strategy I adopt I always seem to get nowhere or I get lead on and used for whatever expertise of mine they may need, I don't have too much of an issue with this if I get to take them to a few dinners/lunches because I'd rather do that with someone I do like.

 

"Do the things which make you more interesting" what would these be? Everything I do I don't aim for average, I'd rather say I went on one AMAZING date with someone dynamic and attractive than go on 20 dates with people who are neither even if they ultimately do like me whereas the one amazing date doesn't.

 

I am not really a prize at all, my entire life people wrote me off as "he cant do that, he wont accomplish that" but I took that and proved them wrong in many respects so for me dating is exactly like that, its about me trying to actually achieve more than people think I can. My opinion of myself is actually quite low in terms of dating, I never have a partner for dinners and I have been going to them for years, I take a friend of mine as a "date" to events even though she isn't single, why because at least I feel like I fit in and when most of my life as been spent as misfit its quite nice to have someone pretty, articulate next to you at dinner.

 

I am probably all of those, ugly, boring, unconventional and have a personality most wont like. So what of it? The flip side is I am generous, loyal and caring but those things don't matter. Apparently.

 

What would you do if you were me?

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I have never had that courtesy extended to me. In fact I used to extend that fairly often but I realised why would I keep doing that when it served no purpose.

 

You've got a long history of rejecting women who don't fit the list of what you want. Perhaps that this happens to you in return is Karma.

 

An honest question here, what should women be offering men? Unfortunately I have this (wrong) idea, well in least in theory but proven correct in practice that most women just turn up and expect to be wowed. Truthfully every date I have been on has been like that barring perhaps one, they made very little effort for the date, from appearance to anything really. I go and try be enthusiastic but get no real enthusiasm back.

 

What women should offer men is transparency so that you can make a decision about whether or not they are a good fit for you. And remember, with the age group you're dating, a woman who's fit, slim, good looking with no kids and a great personality would have been snapped up long ago. Yes, there are some still out there, but they are going to be attracted to the kind of man who can have an easy conversation about *anything* and not be limited to mutual hobbies and interests.

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LivingWaterPlease

ZAdater, here's what I'd do were I you.

 

I would learn to relate to women in a warm and positive emotional way.

 

I notice in your posts you express a lot of cold hard facts in a somewhat negative manner. Being factual and leaving emotions out of a work setting is usually a good idea. The opposite is true for dating.

 

Many women are interested in experiencing positive emotions when they date a man.

 

Also, if you're not interested in a woman, what she has to say, who she is, etc. you probably won't get very far with her.

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There's nothing you could've done ,yaknow, lt just wasn't there for her , it happens , happens with you too by the sounds, don't sweat it.

ps, and how did she know you were inexperienced btw, l really wouldn't advertise that one.

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There is a subreddit called

r/equalattraction.

 

People post a selfie and others find the physical equivalent in the opposite sex.

 

It might give u an idea of what girls u should be shooting for.

 

Tbh not sure how active it is but worth a shot.

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That's a damn good idea Crunchy, seems as it happens so often za your sights could be a mile off.

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That's a damn good idea Crunchy, seems as it happens so often za your sights could be a mile off.

 

Why thank you Haha. I'm thinking about doing the same thing myself :p

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who don't fit the list of what you want.

 

And remember, with the age group you're dating, a woman who's fit, slim, good looking with no kids and a great personality would have been snapped up long ago. easy conversation about *anything* and not be limited to mutual hobbies and interests.

 

Well again its a two way street, why should I accept what I don't like?

 

Yes, well that's hardly a motivation but anyway I admire your candid honesty. The irony about easy conversation about anything is most of them cant do easy conversation about world affairs for examples, or politics or perhaps I should go and read a Jamie Oliver cook book perhaps that's better easy conversation or how about the latest Hello magazine, maybe that's even better.

 

In case its not obvious I am being sarcastic with the book reading ideas...

 

At the end of the day I can look, go about life and look, that pretty much costs me nothing, gets me nothing either though. But seeing as I am so unlikely to meet anyone I actually want......

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That's a damn good idea Crunchy, seems as it happens so often za your sights could be a mile off.

 

Cool I'd try it but for the fact I don't feel like having my selfie on the internet. At the end of the day I want what I want, pretty face being a must among other things. Mostly I guess a connection is nice but its very rare to find and maybe I am just closed off to the idea unless there is something wow about the person.

 

Anyway what I match with on Tinder gives me a pretty good idea what is gettable and no surprise none of them are attractive at all.

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Many women are interested in experiencing positive emotions when they date a man.

 

Also, if you're not interested in a woman, what she has to say, who she is, etc. you probably won't get very far with her.

 

 

Well I guess given the choice, I'd choose work over dating and that's an easy choice to make based on which one gives me more positivity. Strangely enough it was dating which made me factual, I used to go there showing who I was, what I stood for, what I liked, a few odd funny stories but I realised this was pointless on a date because fundamentally they could not relate to me in that way.

 

 

This lady for instance would not relate to a 35 who had not dated, I told her flat out I had not dated why even bother to hide it when its so obvious already, all I am doing is telling her a piece of information she already knows.

 

 

Another wont relate to someone who works long hours, another wont relate to someone who like cars, another wont relate to someone who doesn't drink and the list goes on and on.

 

 

Do I care if they cant relate, 99% of the time I don't, but that 1% I do and that's when I meet someone I really like who could actually fit in with me and who I am. But I suppose the fact of the matter is if I were a catch, Id have found a person I liked enough to date, so that's my own reality and fact.

 

 

I am not a warm person that's another fact, I can be but I choose not to, why because if I remove the emotion from the situation I don't care if I get rejected.

 

 

The only thing I want from dating is one great experience, just one where I can say "ok that was great she was what I wanted".

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Cool I'd try it but for the fact I don't feel like having my selfie on the internet. At the end of the day I want what I want, pretty face being a must among other things. Mostly I guess a connection is nice but its very rare to find and maybe I am just closed off to the idea unless there is something wow about the person.

 

Anyway what I match with on Tinder gives me a pretty good idea what is gettable and no surprise none of them are attractive at all.

 

If ur using OLD, ur face is on the internet.

 

But this will give u a better idea of who is ur equal. Of course unattractive people will be attracted to u, but u will more likely be attracted to somone on ur level physically then those below u. Unless ur actively wanting to date up. Then it will be an uphill battle cuz those women would want to date on their level or up.

 

Yuck I hate using these terms....

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