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Relationship vs sex and a males' cold approach


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I've noticed a couple of female complaints that come up from time to time here on LS:

- men don't show interest

- men only pump and dump

 

It has struck me that these two complaints are opposite filters for male behavior. Guys who just want sex and to move on have no problem showing interest. The 'score' is the goal and they know they have to pretend interest to get the woman to bed. On the other hand, guys who want a relationship are reticent about showing interest. They are making an emotional investment and probably have enough bad experience to stand off a bit or a lot before taking a risk. I think these stereotypes hold true.

 

So my point is to tell the ladies ''you (usually) can't have it both ways''. If a guy chases hard, don't be surprised when he's 'only after one thing' (this case is no problem if she's also only after one thing). If a guy 'goes slow' (and you'd be interested in him), meet him half way. Opinions?

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I think you state a fundamental truth that most women miss. Half the time women are flattered by interest from so called players who only want one thing but they can't seem to understand why that smooth guy has no interest in settling down. Then they get made when the good guys can't sweep them off their feet.

 

I have always maintained that players give good date -- they look good, they say the right things, they can bring the romance and they love the thrill of the chase so it's all a big heady whirlwind but heaven help you if you give a guy like this your heart. If you want a keeper you have to be willing to muddle through.

 

I was 1st attracted to my husband because he is so profoundly good looking that I thought he must be a player & I was good with that. I wanted & was actively looking for all the excitement. My husband couldn't be a player with Cory Wayne or any other PUA whispering in his ear. He's just not wired that way. I teasingly call him Mr. Nomance. But he's rock steady, loyal, steadfast, funny & loving. When I want romance I design those candlelit dates & dress him up. He goes along with it & has gotten better at playing his part. When he hasn't bought me flowers in a while I stick an empty vase in the middle of the dining room table. Gee . … flowers magically appear a day or two later. He now takes pride in giving me the romantic anniversary date but that is a learned behavior. It's not his true nature so I genuinely appreciate all the effort it takes for him to design that one night date.

 

 

In any endeavor you are not going to get what you want until you figure out exactly what it is you seek.

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salparadise
On the other hand, guys who want a relationship are reticent about showing interest. They are making an emotional investment and probably have enough bad experience to stand off a bit or a lot before taking a risk.

 

If a guy 'goes slow' (and you'd be interested in him), meet him half way. Opinions?

 

 

I think a lot of women subscribe to that old sweep-me-off-my-feet bullish*t. I see it all the time online. Some even say as much in their profiles.They just aren't dealing in reality –– watching too many Disney movies.

 

I'll admit that I am a bit non-standard when it comes to all of this stuff. I like progressive, fully-functional, reciprocal women. The first thing I notice is whether they're meeting me halfway in the conversation. If I write a paragraph and ask them a question (plenty of incentive and material for discussion), and they give me a short answer... we're pretty much done at that point.

 

Why in the hell do they think that I'm going to keep on asking question and looking for new topics, making ninety percent of the effort, just to get a disappointing three word response. Or often the lamest response in the internet age, "Lol."

 

This is not just a mechanical strategy... it's an intuitive realization that this would be a completely one-sided deal, so I just let the conversation die. I bet something like eighty percent of the dialogues I've had with women online have ended with them giving me a short answer and me just not bothering to respond again.

 

Especially for us older folks, the chase is a two-way street. Nothing is less attractive than a fifty-something woman trying to act like a debutante. I want an equal partner, and they need to show me that they have the maturity and intellectual capacity to engage. /rant

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Well l dunno, but l think the one where men don't show interest is a bit of a ridiculous complaint.

lf he isn't interested he isn't interested , so next minute he's weak or his socially awkward or the scum of the earth or all men are ah's , just because he's not interested.

l mean she may as well have a tantrum , same thing.

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salparadise

Another observation/theory since we're on the subject of mature people dating online...

 

I have come to believe that only a small fraction of the women on dating sites (could be true for men too) are actually open to entering a new relationship with a real person. The majority have high walls –– defense mechanisms –– that make them risk averse. Yea, they're lonely and would like to have someone in their life, but have no ability to open their hearts. So they create an image of the ideal man, which no man will ever match, and double down on the never settle mantra. They engage only in a limited way and keep a safe distance from anyone who seems too real, and therefore risky. And even if they did start seeing someone they'd need to hold him at arm's length.

 

They enjoy the attention/validation, sometimes go on a first meetup or coffee date, and then that defensive thing kicks in and they bow out and retreat back into their emotional safety... all the while thinking to themselves, I could've had him if I wanted, but he just isn't quite perfect, doesn't meet my standards, etc. When the reality is they're scared to take a chance, and delude themselves with comforting platitudes like, "there aren't any good men left out there."

 

This is why I've backed way off on searching online for a partner. I still have profiles active but I seldom send a first message. I let them come to me. If they're willing to make initial contact there's a much better chance that they're ready to make something happen.

Edited by salparadise
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Gretchen12

Those are not my complaints. Maybe the complaints you saw were from young women. But I'll comment anyway.

 

I think you have a good advice for teen girls, college girls. Smart women learn, so by the time they reach 25 (or 30 the latest for late bloomers) they already know about the players. Mature women are less impressed by the superficial.

 

For us older daters, esp. people who've been in a LTR then resume dating, we discover that the opposite sex has also matured as we have. An update is needed. We are all less stupid.

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OatsAndHall

Unfortunately, IME, there are many guys who's primary goal in dating is to get laid. A former work colleague of mine was like this; he'd claim to want a relationship on his profile and would sell himself that way. But, he'd get laid and then ghost. If he couldn't get laid within the first few dates, he'd also disappear. And, there are the guys who are looking for a relationship but are also looking for sex early on; another former colleague of mine does this. He's actively looking for a girlfriend but he's more than happy to go to bed with a woman on the first date, whether he's really into her or not. So, I do see how women get a bit spooky in this aspect.

 

 

 

However, I do get my hackles up when anyone (male or female) makes a blanket complaint about the other gender "not being interested". There's plenty of people that are "interested"; the griping party just isn't "interested" in those particular people. As such, they either need to come to accept the fact that they've set certain standards and move on or they need to evaluate whether or not their standards are reasonable.

 

 

I've made mention of this in other threads, but I have a female friend who used to discuss (i.e. complain about) their dating life with me and we had to stop talking about it. She was upset often about her dating life and I always felt that she had the bar set too high (i.e. Disney romance high..). But, I told her exactly what I wrote in the last paragraph; grow comfortable with the bar you've set or lower it.

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I used the slang 'pump and dump' in my OP. Then I got curious about it (it has other meanings in investing and, of all things, breastfeeding).

 

I 'followed the trail' of dating usage to MGTOW, which led me to ...

OMG! Is this woman for real?? A traditional wife and mother (and BTW IMO GORGEOUS). I'm not complaining about her, only if she's real where are the 60-somethings with the same attitudes. Her husband is a very lucky man.
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It seems to me like men want sex up front then figure everything else out later. This can lead to hump and dump situations.

 

Even guys who seemed to like me wanted to sex asap. Almost every guy has wanted to have sex on the first date or meet up.

 

I don't twist a man's arm to make him get to know me. He does or he doesn't.

 

I don't think guys who try to cold approach are necessarily players. Age and ethnicity come into play.

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Showing interest and going slow is not necessarily mutually exclusive in my experience. I suppose that if anyone defines "showing interest" as "chasing me hard and pushing to go faster without me reciprocating at all", then your post would make sense. I'd hope that nobody over the age of 25 does, though.

 

 

 

It's normal and even healthy to want someone who demonstrates interest in you. Most men in good relationships do, too, and don't chase women who don't reciprocate their interest.

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I've noticed a couple of female complaints that come up from time to time here on LS:

- men don't show interest

- men only pump and dump

 

It has struck me that these two complaints are opposite filters for male behavior. Guys who just want sex and to move on have no problem showing interest. The 'score' is the goal and they know they have to pretend interest to get the woman to bed. On the other hand, guys who want a relationship are reticent about showing interest. They are making an emotional investment and probably have enough bad experience to stand off a bit or a lot before taking a risk. I think these stereotypes hold true.

 

So my point is to tell the ladies ''you (usually) can't have it both ways''. If a guy chases hard, don't be surprised when he's 'only after one thing' (this case is no problem if she's also only after one thing). If a guy 'goes slow' (and you'd be interested in him), meet him half way. Opinions?

 

yes these stereotypes as you call them are very prevalent,although nothing is an absolute either

 

a lot of the more confident guys will be in the pump and dump category (lads in their 20s anyway)

 

now your other category, these are the guys who have struggled in previous relationships or who have limited experience with women,

 

these can be older guys too who are at the point where they are afraid of women or do not want to offend a women, or perhaps also afraid off rejection,

 

so while taking it slow is ok, it is not good for a guy to become afraid of women and afraid of showing interest in a women.

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It is usually about happy mediums.

Guys who go too fast or are all about sex, often get dumped by women not seeking the same.

Guys who go dead slow and stop, or are aloof and cold due to issues and baggage and timidity, also get dumped.

Women are not really there to sort out male issues.

Men are grown ups, they need to figure out their own "issues" before jumping into the dating scene.

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It seems to me like men want sex up front then figure everything else out later.

 

There is a generalization that says

 

Men need sex to feel loved while women need to feel loved to have sex.

 

That underlines the whole interaction.

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In my experience, men who have not shown interest, are really not that interested.

 

I have tried to give these types of men a chance. Invite them over, cook for them, flirt with them, brush my hand against their arm. And in every case nothing has ever progressed.

 

If a man does not take the lead in the beginning, the relationship will never move forward. Again this is in my experience.

 

Have a beautiful day.

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Men who are successful in getting women into bed are masters at selling themselves and making themselves appear to be keepers.

 

Men who fail and are awkward tend to actually be keepers. On the rare occasion men are a combination of both.

 

As mentioned above, too often women have this romcom expectation of what a man should be, and expect it to all be natural and easy, but also too often attracted to surface factors that if missing dont allow themselves to invest. Oh there's no chemistry or no butterflies.

 

I once heard a famous therapist say most women attract the man they deserve, they want butterflies but only put out bait to catch ants.

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It is usually about happy mediums.

Guys who go too fast or are all about sex, often get dumped by women not seeking the same.

Guys who go dead slow and stop, or are aloof and cold due to issues and baggage and timidity, also get dumped.

Women are not really there to sort out male issues.

Men are grown ups, they need to figure out their own "issues" before jumping into the dating scene.

 

Agreed.

There are some women who will, but I don't twist a man's arm and make him spend time with me. If a guy is trying to have sex on the first date, it looks like he's after one thing. He needs to show me that he wants to put forth an effort and get to know me. I don't count sex as an effort.

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If I write a paragraph and ask them a question (plenty of incentive and material for discussion), and they give me a short answer... we're pretty much done at that point.

 

Why in the hell do they think that I'm going to keep on asking question and looking for new topics, making ninety percent of the effort, just to get a disappointing three word response......

..... like eighty percent of the dialogues I've had with women online have ended with them giving me a short answer and me just not bothering to respond again.

These are the ones that just aren't that into you that is all. Sounds like you are learning to spot it sooner, and that is what you need to do. It doesn't mean they hate you, they may even like as a person, but they just aren't emotionally aroused enough to put in any effort,...and that emotional arousal is critical to make something work. You will get no where without it.

I've been known to cancel dates if I got a "yes" but they seemed halfhearted or nervous about it. What I'm looking for is a "yes" that sounds happy and excited.

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I have never tried to have sex on the first Date. I can't relate to that. Anyone like that is basically too over zealous. Good luck with that.

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Cinnamon_Girl

I never have fallen victim to the "pump and dump" approach.

 

When I was much younger, I had a couple of close friends who were really promiscuous. I saw both of them being the recipient of "pump and dump" many times, and saw the way people talked about them, and the hurt they went through. I never wanted to be on the receiving end of any of that. So, even if I really don't want to wait, I always wait quite some time and know a man pretty well before having sex.

 

The men who've split on me right away over this are doing me a favor.

The men who've stuck around, I know care for me.

 

And guys, if you really like a woman, and want to have a relationship with her, please don't play games like waiting so many days to text or call after a date. Especially those of you who are older, and single, like me. We're hopefully too mature for that stuff.

 

When a man goes to some effort for me, bringing flowers, wine, taking me out to nice places, dressing up, I love it, and I return the favor with home cooked meals, back rubs, buying him little gifts, putting effort into looking/smelling good for him.

 

I love it when a man holds my hand walking into a restaurant, and walking down the street, doesn't walk ahead of me.

 

These things really do impress a lot of women, and make us think highly of you. So, yes, sweep me off my feet! I do the same!

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It is usually about happy mediums.

Guys who go too fast or are all about sex, often get dumped by women not seeking the same.

Guys who go dead slow and stop, or are aloof and cold due to issues and baggage and timidity, also get dumped.

Women are not really there to sort out male issues.

Men are grown ups, they need to figure out their own "issues" before jumping into the dating scene.

 

 

 

 

Delays or hold back usually involve wanting to know her a bit more first, unsure about her , simple as that,

And one big reason can often be she's the one with the issues he doesn't wanna sort out for her.

Believe me, you should see some of the messes out there.

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And guys, if you really like a woman, and want to have a relationship with her, please don't play games like waiting so many days to text or call after a date. Especially those of you who are older, and single, like me. We're hopefully too mature for that stuff.

 

When a man goes to some effort for me, bringing flowers, wine, taking me out to nice places, dressing up, I love it, and I return the favor with home cooked meals, back rubs, buying him little gifts, putting effort into looking/smelling good for him.

 

I love it when a man holds my hand walking into a restaurant, and walking down the street, doesn't walk ahead of me.

 

These things really do impress a lot of women, and make us think highly of you. So, yes, sweep me off my feet! I do the same!

 

From your keyboard to god's ear. Must be my looks then :(

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  • 2 weeks later...
I've noticed a couple of female complaints that come up from time to time here on LS:

- men don't show interest

- men only pump and dump

 

It has struck me that these two complaints are opposite filters for male behavior. Guys who just want sex and to move on have no problem showing interest. The 'score' is the goal and they know they have to pretend interest to get the woman to bed. On the other hand, guys who want a relationship are reticent about showing interest. They are making an emotional investment and probably have enough bad experience to stand off a bit or a lot before taking a risk. I think these stereotypes hold true.

 

So my point is to tell the ladies ''you (usually) can't have it both ways''. If a guy chases hard, don't be surprised when he's 'only after one thing' (this case is no problem if she's also only after one thing). If a guy 'goes slow' (and you'd be interested in him), meet him half way. Opinions?

 

 

What you are talking about is simple yet profound at the same time. I see this everywhere with women. They go for whoever makes the right moves and don't have patience anymore for they guys they are actually interested in.

 

 

And then it gets even worse because you have things like the marriage forum on LS, DeadBedrooms on redit..etc. Men are trying to weed out women who are what they call "future fakers". These are women who try to appear very sexual at the beginning of a relationship with the only purpose being to secure that guy. After she gets committed or married, the sex instantly drops off.

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Lotsgoingon
When a man goes to some effort for me, bringing flowers, wine, taking me out to nice places, dressing up, I love it, and I return the favor with home cooked meals, back rubs, buying him little gifts, putting effort into looking/smelling good for him.

 

Most likely you ALREADY like these guys who bring you flowers and take you to "nice places." Those can add to a romantic vibe that is already there--they don't create attraction.

 

Flowers, in my experience, if you're not already committed, are a complete waste of time. I have never heard a story from a male friend of mine who bought flowers who thought this changed anything. Flowers can confirm what's going on ... not create it ...

 

BTW: lots of players have figured out that bringing flowers and going to nice places can fool a woman about their intentions. Not against this, but they are merely ornaments. Players use flowers and so on to set up pump and dump.

 

In fact, one technique that pimps use when they are first recruiting a woman to work for them ... is to give her flowers, treat her to super nice dinners, hand her some money ... and then ... right when she's least expecting, they let loose with devastating violence ... The woman is left disoriented and confused ... and terrified ... and is easier to push onto the streets.

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I have always hated cut flowers, as 1)they are contrived and false, and then there is 2)they are in fact dying/dead.

Who wants to be handed a bunch of dying/dead things?

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Happy Lemming
I have always hated cut flowers, as 1)they are contrived and false, and then there is 2)they are in fact dying/dead.

Who wants to be handed a bunch of dying/dead things?

 

I've dated a couple of women that loved flowers. Flowers are my usual "go to". I'll gauge her reaction and adjust accordingly. For one woman in particular, I'd usually stop by "Trader Joe's" on my way to the date and see what they had on sale. She was always excited to get them.

 

And I dated another woman that hated flowers (like you) but preferred treats. Her favorite were the yogurt covered pretzels. At that time, there was a factory near my work that would sell their over-runs, cheap. So I would stop by there after work on Friday and get her some sweet treats.

 

I remember taking fresh strawberries to one woman and she absolutely loved them. She thought that was such a great and unique little date gift.

 

Another liked wine... any kind.

 

Current girlfriend likes books, so the used bookstore is visited from time to time, so I can find a something for her.

 

Each woman is different, the guy just needs to figure out what item brightens her day and work along those parameters. There is some "trial & error" but he'll figure it out.

 

I don't like showing up for a date empty handed. A small gift goes a long way.

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