Suggestion: if you can, get a friend to assist

[nospam99]

First, take any advice I give with 'a grain of salt' because, at the moment, I'm as 'unsuccessful with love' as, well, a lot of the single, ISO posters here.

 

But I've noticed (as I bet almost all of us have) a few 'regulars' (seems like a few more males than females) who keep posting about repeating cycles of ''I'm lonely and don't want to be, the opposite sex sux (in a bad way), oh something good happened, I can't believe it, it was a false positive, I'm giving up and quitting dating forever, I'm going to try again'' and then rinse and repeat. At the risk of being obvious, those regulars are not going to get any more help or useful advice here than they've already gotten.

 

So my suggestion, possibly impractical to the point of impossible because of limited social contacts, is to enlist the help of a friend, not online but IN REAL LIFE. There is no way 'us' non-experts on LS can see what's really going on in the dating/love lives of the unfulfilled posters (mine included). Only someone who is physically there can see and maybe spot the behaviors and false starts that a 'seeker' may be making that are sabotaging their efforts. This covers everything from photos and profiles online, for those folks like me who use OLD to meet, to behavior in social venues: parties, bars, meetups, the office (careful USA men!), and on the street (i.e. mall, supermarket, church, library).

[edgygirl]

I see your point. I don’t think it is helping them going over and over the same themes. It’s not like any of us can really tell what the problem is. And honestly it’s not like they really are open to take advice although they think they are. But if they had a friend that could do it, wouldn’t they already go that route?

[elaine567]

Trouble is these friends likely need to be brutally honest if they are to be of any real help and brutally honest friends tend to find themselves dumped pretty quick, as egos are often fragile and criticism is not well taken in real life.

 

Many unsuccessful daters are not too good in the close friends department either, so finding a buddy who can give helpful advice may be just as impossible as finding a date...

[some_username1]

The biggest problem the male posters here seem to have is they are very immature/ego driven and lack a sense of perspective that only time can give them.

 

I say this because I was exactly like them at their age (mid 20s to early 30s)- very petulant, I would swing wildly from giving up dating one day, to back on the apps the next and then the day after that being treated like crap and lapping it up because at least the girl was hot, then when the girl ditched me she was a bitch and I was never going to speak to women again etc. An all too familiar pattern here on LS. Everything is about immature extremes of emotion/behaviour.

 

Then, towards my late 30s, it all just clicked and I got that sense of perspective that there is more to life than women and that i have wasted some of the best years of my life being miserable because women wouldn't celebrate my genius. I can't get those years back and I wish I knew this back then as it was ultimately my choice to be miserable rather than spend my time investing in who I was to make myself happier which would have at least made me a better person to be around. Honestly I recall former colleagues at the time telling me how I needed to buck up and reading some threads on here the posters make me think that is how I must have come across to my colleagues and I'm blown away because constant misery is not fun to read much less be around!

 

I have tried explaining this to those posters but they just don't see it and refuse to change because their ego makes them think they have all the answers already. They are here not genuinely to receive the best advice and take it on board, but rather to get the advice that confirms their biases or some specific piece of easy advice that both makes them feel better and solves their problems without requiring them to do any work on themselves. It just doesn't work like that for some of us. You have to find happiness within yourself and a woman is a nice bonus. That advice os given regularly and I can't recall seeing anyone actually go "yeah, I'm gonna do that!", most likely because being so zen about 'your lot' is DAMN HARD, it takes a long time and people want quick fixes that pay off tomorrow. So I've now realised that you just can't get this reasoning to stick with the guys- they have to get to that place where life experience makes things finally click for them.

 

As for getting friends to help, that can be a tough thing as a guy because most of us have that competitive streak and we all want to date the hottest woman as an aid to display dominance over your social group. So guys will often not go out of their way to give their friends a leg up.

 

I have quite an altruistic nature, if I have met the woman of my dreams and a girl who wasn't quite as great came along I would do what I could to fix her up with a friend- my friends however would rather have her as a bit on the side than give me an opportunity to date her. Women are a resource just like money and as men we want it all for ourselves, even if we don't need it. That's just how it is and I think it's fairly universal. If you have a male friend who is trying to fix your singledom then trust me, you have found a good one!

[chillii]

l've suggested that a few times to people here and some have but sounds like they weren't much help.

Someone pretty clued in here even offered but she didn't even get a thank you , l told him he was crazy should've taken up that one.

A friend who isn't really a friend and l think they'd get some honest help.

 

Because the trouble is it's awkward when you actually know someone even though you can spot it a mile away. l know a few but in all honesty it's their personality.and l don't have that kinda patience for pet projects like that.

l've known them both a long time and years ago l use to say a few things but neither ever got it and what they've both needed is a personality transplant anyway tbh. So where do you even begin.

[ZA Dater]

Trouble is these friends likely need to be brutally honest if they are to be of any real help and brutally honest friends tend to find themselves dumped pretty quick, as egos are often fragile and criticism is not well taken in real life.

 

Many unsuccessful daters are not too good in the close friends department either, so finding a buddy who can give helpful advice may be just as impossible as finding a date...

 

 

 

OP I have tried this over the space of years and it doesn't really work, well in my case it doesn't because when you think about it, why would said friend not want these ladies if they are so "perfect" so I just get the impression that a lesser is being passed on to me because if this person was so fantastic why isn't said friend dating them or chasing them.

 

 

When someone I do like, very rarely, comes along said friends provide no assistance at all because apparently "she isn't for you". Whatever that's supposed to mean.

 

 

Said friend is no of the opinion I should just pay for sex. Apparently that will sort out all my dating problems.

 

 

I don't believe people actually want to help people in a meaningful way, especially those who struggle because they don't understand why people struggle to begin. Instead they see such people are projects to try and manage.

 

 

I mean I know how to fix why I struggle but ultimately I don't have that power, all I need is one person I like to like, just one, give me maybe 2 weeks of what dating is like, let me decide if I like it or not, a contrived pay day wont accomplish that.

[JuneL]

More often than not, these individuals just wanted to vent on here and have a pity party. They really didn’t want to fix their situation, as it would take too much work.

[ZA Dater]

More often than not, these individuals just wanted to vent on here and have a pity party. They really didn’t want to fix their situation, as it would take too much work.

 

They say if the shoe fits, wear it, so I will.

 

What if fix exactly? Dating relies on not just one person, it relies on the fact there needs to be mutual attraction and I have come to the conclusion for some of us that will never, ever happen. That cannot be "fixed". Its either there or it isn't, some people are universally attractive, some are just not.

 

Those issues cannot simply be fixed.

 

The world of dating is an intolerant place, I don't really feel much for ladies who battle at dating because ultimately they have the choice, guys do not, nothing I have seen suggests that struggling guys ever have much choice but to land up settling for someone they don't really want but because there aren't any other alternative its deemed to be ok.

 

There is indeed good advice to be found, try be confident, try look good but those things only work so well if your pool is right to begin with, people are told to work on themselves, which is well and good but society doesn't do projects, that blond wont take me on as a 34yo virgin because I wont make her happy but that bad boy will so absolutely nothing I can do will get me a win in that situation as the quiet reserved guy.

 

At the end of the day I don't believe struggling daters ever become successful daters because the spectre of society is too prevalent.

Either you date down or date nothing. Or you walk around window shopping or searching for friend zone which from my point of view might be as good as it can get for me.

[Ronni_W]

Only someone who is physically there can see and maybe spot the behaviors and false starts that a 'seeker' may be making that are sabotaging their efforts.

This does not take into account, though, all the coaches, therapists and counselors who do good work via long-distance, by whatever electronic means.

 

If people give an accurate and honest portrait of what they're thinking and doing, and what is motivating them, then it's really not that difficult for anyone on the outside

to see where that person (with the issue) may be going wrong, especially if the observer has already faced and successfully overcome that same hurdle or barrier, or negative psychological pattern.

 

I think that there are a lot more mental health care professionals who post here, than we might think; and, in general, many people demonstrate sensitivity and good insight.

[ZA Dater]

I have tried explaining this to those posters but they just don't see it and refuse to change because their ego makes them think they have all the answers already. They are here not genuinely to receive the best advice and take it on board, but rather to get the advice that confirms their biases or some specific piece of easy advice that both makes them feel better and solves their problems without requiring them to do any work on themselves. It just doesn't work like that for some of us. You have to find happiness within yourself and a woman is a nice bonus. That advice os given regularly and I can't recall seeing anyone actually go "yeah, I'm gonna do that!", most likely because being so zen about 'your lot' is DAMN HARD, it takes a long time and people want quick fixes that pay off tomorrow. So I've now realised that you just can't get this reasoning to stick with the guys- they have to get to that place where life experience makes things finally click for them.

 

As for getting friends to help, that can be a tough thing as a guy because most of us have that competitive streak and we all want to date the hottest woman as an aid to display dominance over your social group. So guys will often not go out of their way to give their friends a leg up.

 

Bottom line is not guy is going to help another guy get something better than he himself can get, all he will do is try motivate for you to like girls he doesn't like but pretends to like so that you might like them too.

 

Honestly maybe more guys need to be called out, I'd actually find a certain degree of acceptance if a friend told me I would never be able to date, heck I might even stop trying if I was told that. My own interest is largely novelty related, I want to be hugged, I want to take someone to dinner, I want to take someone on holiday but would I want to do any of those things more than once, not so sure to be honest.

 

My life is ok, its just incredibly lonely and without any for of affection at all.

[PRW]

More often than not, these individuals just wanted to vent on here and have a pity party. They really didn’t want to fix their situation, as it would take too much work.

That is a big one. A lot also just want you to tell them what they want to hear too.

[PRW]

The biggest problem with friends helping is that the friends don't know what they are doing either. It is the blind leading the blind.

[JuneL]

The biggest problem with friends helping is that the friends don't know what they are doing either. It is the blind leading the blind.

 

But at least, statistically speaking, it’s super unlikely their friends don’t have a lot more success in the dating department.

 

There’s really so much your friends can help you. You can’t expect them to be your therapist and to baby you. It’s too much work.

[PRW]

But at least, statistically speaking, it’s super unlikely their friends don’t have a lot more success in the dating department.

Not from what I have seen. Most of my social life involves time spent with a "Singles" Meetup group of over 3000 members. People tend to hang out with people (clicks) who are just like they are. So they just co-miserate together.

 

Friends seem fond of saying things like, "Just be yourself" which is the worse thing you can tell someone considering it was their "self" that got them into the mess. I don't tell them that obviously.

 

Now, I have friends (believe it or not ) but I never offer advice to friends who don't ask me for it. Sometimes I can gently move a conversation into the dating topic if the current conversation lends itself to that, but most people are still too stubborn and set in their ways (bad habits) that they will not listen or implement.

[basil67]

Bottom line is not guy is going to help another guy get something better than he himself can get, all he will do is try motivate for you to like girls he doesn't like but pretends to like so that you might like them too.

 

I find this line of thinking quite bizarre. First is the assumption that the friend is single. What about a guy who has a girlfriend and he wants to introduce you to one of her friends? That's how my hubby and I met.

 

Second is the idea that a particular great woman is great for all men. Different people like different things. This great woman may have ideas or hobbies or interests which don't match with your mate, but may well work for you. For instance, if I was single and met a great guy who was a gym junkie, I probably wouldn't be interested - but I'd certainly introduce him to my single gym junkie friend.

[basil67]

Friends seem fond of saying things like, "Just be yourself" which is the worse thing you can tell someone considering it was their "self" that got them into the mess. I don't tell them that obviously.

 

Society says "just be yourself". Society says "no, not like that"

 

Perhaps a better saying would be "be the best version of yourself". Only the most conceited would think they have no room for improvement.

[chillii]

Funny thing.

l just had a few beers with one of the guys l know with troubles tonight.

And he was actually talking about he's women shortage as he usually does. But when we left he shook hands like a little girl so for a start if l was inclined the first thing l'd say is , ffs shake a hand like a man will ya.

 

And coincidentally the other one is a chick 45ish we both know and she came up in convo. Turns out she had a fight with the neighbour , because ahhh, apparently he wasn't looking after her horses properly , whichhhh,.he'd bent over backwards to do just as a favor to her.

 

No surprises at all that she hasn't had a steady since early 20s.

[chillii]

Society says "just be yourself". Society says "no, not like that"

 

Perhaps a better saying would be "be the best version of yourself". Only the most conceited would think they have no room for improvement.

 

 

 

 

Yeah agree and this is the line.

l often tell someone to just be them self but it does depend on what they're doing that isn't being them self.

 

Other times though it's obvious that it's things about them self that is the actual problem .

[LightWave93]

Oh look, a thread aimed towards posters such as myself and ZA_Dater.

 

I can't speak for him, but I can speak for myself; this thread speaks volumes about A) The lack of understanding some LSer's have on our situation and B) How arrogant they are in thinking the advice they provide is the be-all, end-all of our troubles.

 

For example;

 

"Go ask a friend / a professional":- Personally, I have. I've easily questioned hundreds of people over this. Some close, some not-so-close friends, and some total strangers. The feedback is always consistent and positive. Hell, I went to a psychiatrist a couple of days ago and she said I would not need sessions as there wasn't a thing wrong with me.

 

"More often than not, these individuals just want to vent":- Ahuh, sure, that's why I've easily wasted hours on this website writing about my problems IN DETAIL so that I can get thorough, accurate advice based on good assessment. That's why I've gone to counselling, therapy, hired dating coaches, asked to review my dating profiles etc. No wonder some of my posts were looked over, assumptions made...I wasn't taken seriously to begin with.

 

"Need to be happy with yourself":- This is good advice insofar as that it's good general advice on how to live a satisfactory life. It is not, however, good advice to address dating troubles. We've all heard the suggestions to be hygienic, to go to the gym, to volunteer, to attend social events, to speak to anyone and everyone, to smile, to be giving, to push oneself out their comfort zone, to develop a career, to be financially stable, to be a general all-round good person. But what if that still doesn't help you get dating opportunities?

 

With respect, some of you need to take a good long look at yourself and actually think "Hmm, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about".

 

Clearly no one here has a favorable opinion of me, so it's a waste of time seeking advice. Thanks for being cruel and heartless; I won't be returning again.

[Blanco]

With respect, some of you need to take a good long look at yourself and actually think "Hmm, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about".

 

OK, but you first.

[some_username1]

Oh look, a thread aimed towards posters such as myself and ZA_Dater.

 

I can't speak for him, but I can speak for myself; this thread speaks volumes about A) The lack of understanding some LSer's have on our situation and B) How arrogant they are in thinking the advice they provide is the be-all, end-all of our troubles.

 

For example;

 

"Go ask a friend / a professional":- Personally, I have. I've easily questioned hundreds of people over this. Some close, some not-so-close friends, and some total strangers. The feedback is always consistent and positive. Hell, I went to a psychiatrist a couple of days ago and she said I would not need sessions as there wasn't a thing wrong with me.

 

"More often than not, these individuals just want to vent":- Ahuh, sure, that's why I've easily wasted hours on this website writing about my problems IN DETAIL so that I can get thorough, accurate advice based on good assessment. That's why I've gone to counselling, therapy, hired dating coaches, asked to review my dating profiles etc. No wonder some of my posts were looked over, assumptions made...I wasn't taken seriously to begin with.

 

"Need to be happy with yourself":- This is good advice insofar as that it's good general advice on how to live a satisfactory life. It is not, however, good advice to address dating troubles. We've all heard the suggestions to be hygienic, to go to the gym, to volunteer, to attend social events, to speak to anyone and everyone, to smile, to be giving, to push oneself out their comfort zone, to develop a career, to be financially stable, to be a general all-round good person. But what if that still doesn't help you get dating opportunities?

 

With respect, some of you need to take a good long look at yourself and actually think "Hmm, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about".

 

Clearly no one here has a favorable opinion of me, so it's a waste of time seeking advice. Thanks for being cruel and heartless; I won't be returning again.

 

But this just shows how disconnected you are from the reality of the problem you are trying to solve. You seem to be asking for a magic formula that turns you into a PUA that can shag at will. You are trying to control and base your happiness on other people's will- people who have their own feelings and can choose to not have sex with you based on the most minute of criteria that you have no idea you are even conveying to them.

 

"Concentrate on improving your life" is about improving yourself because that is all that you DO have control over and the idea that if you can truly be master of your own domain (and continually singing the 'can't get laid blues' shows you do not have mastery of your own domain yet) then you will radiate happiness and will care less what women think of you because you have your own life that takes precedence. That is insanely attractive to women- they desire guys who can take or leave them and the chance to have sex with them. Working on having a fulfilling life outside of your desire to have sex is the best percentage play you have to be the kind of person other women want to date and it has the pay off that if it doesn't lead to endless sex you should have enough going on in your life that you don't care and aren't posting on loveshack obsessing about it.

 

As I have said many times before, it has taken me life experience to understand why this is such good advice. You just can't see it because you are young, led by your hormones and compare your life with the life others seem to lead thinking that it's a valid comparison. I would be interested to see how you view things in 12 years time. I expect your outlook will have changed drastically.

[ZA Dater]

"Concentrate on improving your life" is about improving yourself because that is all that you DO have control over and the idea that if you can truly be master of your own domain (and continually singing the 'can't get laid blues' shows you do not have mastery of your own domain yet) then you will radiate happiness and will care less what women think of you because you have your own life that takes precedence. That is insanely attractive to women- they desire guys who can take or leave them and the chance to have sex with them. Working on having a fulfilling life outside of your desire to have sex is the best percentage play you have to be the kind of person other women want to date and it has the pay off that if it doesn't lead to endless sex you should have enough going on in your life that you don't care and aren't posting on loveshack obsessing about it.

 

As I have said many times before, it has taken me life experience to understand why this is such good advice. You just can't see it because you are young, led by your hormones and compare your life with the life others seem to lead thinking that it's a valid comparison. I would be interested to see how you view things in 12 years time. I expect your outlook will have changed drastically.

 

Disagree with all of this.

 

FYI I am nearly 35 and I agree with Light Wave in some respects, I am a virgin and no closer to loosing it now than I was at 22 or 25 or 29.

 

I run a property company, my days are full of thing, I do the odd merger corporate finance deal, I mix with many very successful people, by you accounts I would have the life but I don't because ever single day I wake up feeling lonely and every single day I got sleep feeling lonely. I can do whatever I want this never, ever goes away and why should it, how many people haven't experienced intimacy by 35? Id wager a small percentage.

 

So telling me to focus on life and suddenly one day everything will happen sounds like the plot of a not so good romance movie which started in some writers imagination (funnily enough I am writing a book, much of which is what I hoped my dating life would be).

 

Women want to date what they want to date and nothing will ever change that. If you aren't it, then expect to pay for it, literally or not so literally but still monetarily.

 

FYI, I sacrificed dating to build the life you so mention and what has it got me, nothing at all.

[edgygirl]

Oh - I didn’t know about the virgin part.

 

Seriously if I was a male virgin at that age I’d get experience with a few hookers. It’s probably impossible to know how to behave in a sexy way around women at that age if you never done the deed. So, to feel more comfy around other women in the future.

 

(Sorry for deviating from the OP theme. End.)

[Rayce]

That was the exact suggestion I gave him in his other thread. I think he just lacks some confidence.

[basil67]

Women want to date what they want to date and nothing will ever change that. If you aren't it, then expect to pay for it, literally or not so literally but still monetarily.

 

And you also date only who you want to date ZA. You've got quite a list list of the women who you're not interested in.

 

Now this is not a criticism - just a statement of fact. You need to do what you want to do and there's no sense settling for something which doesn't bring you joy. Just remember that your own strict parameters are contributing to the issue.