Here's a truth about self-improvement that nobody tells you

[EthanBlack]

It's infuriating when a girl or guy gives you advice like, "Just improve yourself and someone out there will notice." Especially when said girl or guy doesn't seem to be walking the talk but is dating three people at the same time.

 

It's also very misleading advice. The implication is that if you do the hard work in improving yourself whether it's losing weight, or getting a better career or even just expanding your social life via making new friends and hobbies and interests, things will dramatically improve and soon that amazing new girlfriend or boyfriend will waltz into your life and happily ever after. Just like some hollywood movie.

 

Except that's not how it happens. It takes YEARS, literally YEARS to reap the benefits of anything you do. And even then, the benefits won't nearly be what you expected or desired.

 

A lot of people don't have the fortitude to do hard work for years without seeing any payoff. They may have the discipline to work hard for six months and then just go to a bar and have the ladies come to them. It never works that way.

 

You can only be an improved version of yourself, not totally become another person. That means, say you're a 3 in the looks department. Say you got a better job, developed a leaner and fitter body, and expanded your social circle, btw, none of these are ****ing easy things to accomplish but say you somehow made great strides in all three of these areas. You only raise your value by 1 or 2 points so you become a 5. That means, you're still not gonna be able to land that pretty girl who is an 8. She's still gonna go out with guys who are somewhat in that range and yes, those guys didn't have to nearly work as hard as you. Yah life is unfair.

 

There's also the possibility that despite all your improvements, you STILL end up with no one. There's no guarantee in life.

 

A lot of people who are at the lowest of the lows would just wonder, what's the goddamn point then?

 

The thing is, it comes down to a simple decision. How do you want to go out in life? Do you want to die like a soldier facing a firing squad or rot in a death camp with no dignity? Cause that's what it really boils down to. It's a matter of personal value and dignity.

 

Say you were gonna be alone for rest of your life. Would you rather do it having embarked on a journey of self-improvement, learnt a ton of things about both yourself and other people, maybe made a few friends along the way, and even gained some self-confidence and happiness? Or would you rather just stew in your unfortunate circumstances and being angry and jealous at everyone else more fortunate than you?

 

It really is that simple. There are people with cancer who desperately wanted to live and fought till the end and lost. And there are people who did the same and survived. Nobody ever is gonna blame someone who fought cancer valorously but died.

 

So nobody is ever gonna make fun of you for making the best of your situation and improving yourself. And if someone does, well, let that person rot in his own misery cause that's exactly what's gonna happen to him. Meanwhile, you get to live with some dignity and self-respect even if nobody wants to sleep with you and share your life.

 

Life is unfair and we all walk different paths. And we're all eventually gonna die. Even the beautiful, confident people who had it way easier than you.

[Garcon1986]

Have you tried asking people around you for referrals for dates?

 

Do you tie your happiness to the absolute notion of dating a 7-10/10 lady?

 

I understand that you are having it rough old chap. You've got friends close by? Guy friends or Friendgirls you can trust? Can you ask them very specifically about why you are being rejected?

 

Is it absolute that you must not date an Asian?

[EthanBlack]

Have you tried asking people around you for referrals for dates?

 

Do you tie your happiness to the absolute notion of dating a 7-10/10 lady?

 

I understand that you are having it rough old chap. You've got friends close by? Guy friends or Friendgirls you can trust? Can you ask them very specifically about why you are being rejected?

 

Is it absolute that you must not date an Asian?

 

All my friends are married or in serious relationships. And even when they were single, they had it so much easier. I went and did the same things as them and put in the same effort and I got nothing out of it and they did.

 

I've had too many bad experiences with Asian women that yah, I'm done. I just can't take their worshipping of white guys and looking down on any Asian man that dares to ask them out. I'm willing to date any other race including Arab/Middle Eastern, Black, Latina, White, etc. I just can't deal anymore with my own kind. The only Asian exception is a Japanese woman because I find their views/mentality are similar to that of whites and not like other Asians.

 

I grew up around white people. I was born in this country. I didn't make my first Asian friends until college. I wasn't aware there were these huge Asian communities. I have way more in common with a white person than I do with these tight-knit Asians.

 

I don't know where you live but it's not being Asian that is the problem. Asian guys don't know how to have fun and the ones that do, they tend to only feel at home in those tight-knit Asian communities. So unless you meet a white girl who has some specific interest in Asian things, yah it's not gonna work.

 

In the beginning stages of dating, it's about having fun. Girls want to be with a guy who is fun to be around. A lot of Asian guys just aren't fun because they have ****ty lifestyles. Unlike traditional Asian culture, white girls don't judge a guy at first for his career, education and high social status. That stuff comes later when a serious relationship is in the cards. Her top priority when she decides to date someone she just met is if he's attractive and if he's fun and easy to be around. How does she feel around him and stuff like that.

 

Asian guys don't learn how to have fun with girls and put them at ease while growing up. They are instead trained to get a good career, good education and then when they finally achieve all that, it's like, "**** where are all the women and how come they are all dating these douchebags who haven't accomplished half of what I've done?"

Edited October 15, 2018 by EthanBlack

[Garcon1986]

Then I think you've found the intrinsic mismatch here? The girls around you want first to know if you are fun? I find it hard to believe that absolutely nobody in your city will help you with your dating game.

 

Why not try to be a fun guy in the modern American definition of the word, according to the classy accomplished metropolitan woman.

 

Maybe try adapting to the ladies preferences? I seem to remember you saying you live in California somewhere. That's a mecca of superficial girls and Asian girls getting white guys as a trophy boyfriend, you are right on that. But there's a bazillion different social circles. It's not possible that nobody in your city is a kind caring woman.

 

I'm trying to brainstorm other possibilities with you old chap but this sort of belief system is like a lighthouse broadcasting its position, no boat wants to go near it.

 

It's true that I've griped about my accomplishments, but I am seeking out the woman who can talk thoughtfully and deeply about what she enjoys, not the woaaaa baby let's listen to Taylor Swift party girl (I'm proud of myself for not thinking a hot girl is attractive if all she can talk about is partying).

 

 

There's a way to get out of this but you have got to accept our help here. I'll go full Asian on you (I'm proud of both of my cultures, the Asian, and the British) - a cup of tea that is already full cannot receive more knowledge, it will just overflow.

[Veronica73]

Poor you. You go around scoring other people’s worth on a 1-10 scale, and then lament that you can’t get an 8+ woman *rolls eyes*

[EthanBlack]

Then I think you've found the intrinsic mismatch here? The girls around you want first to know if you are fun? I find it hard to believe that absolutely nobody in your city will help you with your dating game.

 

When I say girls like guys who are "fun", I don't mean frat boy partying ****. I'm too old for that anyhow. Also, people's definition of fun varies greatly.

 

What I mean by "fun" is that, the guy has a fun personality. And he's positive too. Especially when you first meet a girl and are in the stages of trying to get to know each other. No need for deep conversations yet. That can come later. But it's more about positivity and expressing your hopes for the future and what is currently great about your life.

 

Unfortunately, I've been scarred by too many bad experiences that my entire outlook is colored in grey. You are correct in that whole lighthouse analogy thing. I don't think I even want to accept help at this point. I'm angry about my past and fearful of the future. I feel like I didn't deserve all the **** that has happened to me and I wonder why other guys get better luck when they hardly have even tried.

[Garcon1986]

I too feel like I have been mistreated, but on the flip side, women reject being blamed for this kind of thing - they will always tell you not my fault, for experiencing what you experienced, there was a reason you were rejected.

 

What's your profession mate? if you don't mind me asking.

 

You've gotta decide for yourself if you are going to be happy single (and I mean happy inside and out), or you want to change your outlook on life, and start dating again. The cute guys who easily get dates are going to continue to smile at you and think, oh, just keep him where he is, we'll continue to rub salt in the wound and laugh at him. That will never change. Being on the fence and grumbling isn't going to achieve anything unless, that's actually what you want.

[sabaton]

It's infuriating when a girl or guy gives you advice like, "Just improve yourself and someone out there will notice." Especially when said girl or guy doesn't seem to be walking the talk but is dating three people at the same time.

 

 

Yes, it's true.

 

 

 

If you work on yourself and you improve something that you feel that is lacking and that is keeping you from attracting a woman you are attracted to, you will increase your chances of finding a romantic partner.

 

 

 

If what you are doing isn't getting you the results that you want, making a change can increase your chances of getting a partner, tremendously.

 

 

 

 

 

It's also very misleading advice. The implication is that if you do the hard work in improving yourself whether it's losing weight, or getting a better career or even just expanding your social life via making new friends and hobbies and interests, things will dramatically improve and soon that amazing new girlfriend or boyfriend will waltz into your life and happily ever after. Just like some hollywood movie.

 

 

No, people aren't telling you that if you improve yourself you are suddenly going to find yourself with ten, 18 year old Hayden Panettiere clones, chasing after you eager to date you.

 

 

The thing is, the vast majority of the population of the western nations is obese, or at the very least overweight, which means that if you have an athletic build,

 

 

 

you are already more attractive than most of the guys who are competing with each other to become desired by women, and selected by women, for relationships, hook-ups, marriage, whatever it is they're looking for.

 

 

Dating is hard.

 

 

 

For everyone. Men and women included, and you can be a conventionally attractive man and still have trouble dating because it's not like you are hot and then suddenly everything becomes easy for you, like some Disney movie, you know.

 

 

 

Except that's not how it happens. It takes YEARS, literally YEARS to reap the benefits of anything you do. And even then, the benefits won't nearly be what you expected or desired.

 

 

And? What's the question exactly?

 

 

 

You expect dating to be easy? Since when was dating ever easy? In the western world? Or anywhere for that matter? There's lots of grinding, dry spells, relationships where you are physically attracted to the girl but you two don't mesh well together, different life goals, or she's boring, or she finds you to be boring.

 

 

What do you mean the benefits won't nearly be what you expect or desire? What exactly are you looking for in a romantic partner? What do you bring to the table that would interest the women that you want?

 

 

 

What do you offer, and what do you want, physical characteristics, personality traits, life goals, objectives - you have to ponder about stuff like this to figure out what you want, what you truly want and then you can go out there and grind and puff and grith your teeth through the dating landscape until you find what you want.

 

 

 

A lot of people don't have the fortitude to do hard work for years without seeing any payoff. They may have the discipline to work hard for six months and then just go to a bar and have the ladies come to them. It never works that way.

 

 

No one is forcing those people to date. The Human species isn't going to vanish overnight because some women and men don't have the mental and emotional fortitude to put themselves out there looking for a partner, and that's fine. People aren't under obligation to date.

 

 

 

This is the 21th century. If someone wants to stay single for long periods of time or forever, no one is going to really care about that.

 

 

 

 

 

You can only be an improved version of yourself, not totally become another person. That means, say you're a 3 in the looks department.

 

 

What exactly does a 3 look like, and how do you come up with a number to give to a person that defines that person's value as a human being?

 

 

 

Say you got a better job, developed a leaner and fitter body, and expanded your social circle, btw, none of these are ****ing easy things to accomplish

 

 

That's true. They aren't.

 

 

 

For those who've let themselves go physically, they have a steep uphill to climb to get where they want to be at, and it's also true that it's not easy to get a better job, or to expand your social circle, but again, what exactly in life is easy for those who weren't born to be the next King of England?

 

 

 

 

but say you somehow made great strides in all three of these areas. You only raise your value by 1 or 2 points so you become a 5

 

 

That's a good improvement. Most people are average, and lots and lots of average people are happy with themselves and in good romantic relationships with people they care about and who care about them in return.

 

 

 

 

That means, you're still not gonna be able to land that pretty girl who is an 8.

 

 

 

Hmm, using your scale to evaluate a person's worth, 5 is average and 10 is the max?

 

 

 

Then that means the girl is beautiful, not pretty. If the guy is a 5 and aiming for an 8: don't you think he's reaching for someone out of his league and thus he's obviously going to end up frustrated and bitter when that same girl is going to go for a man in her own league or for someone higher?

 

 

Why fixate on someone that is more attractive than the guy, and not only more attractive than the guy but a LOT more attractive than him when he can find a girl who is a 5, like he is, and be happy with her,

 

 

and enjoy having a steady sexual life with her, and building a good, strong emotional bond that will make her want even more sex with him?

 

 

 

 

She's still gonna go out with guys who are somewhat in that range and yes, those guys didn't have to nearly work as hard as you. Yah life is unfair.

 

 

I'm confused. People pair up with the people who match them in looks, social class, more or less the same income, and the same lifegoals. This is obvious and known to almost everyone just by looking at couples walking by us in the street, and just by knowing people in general, friends, family, etc.

 

 

Why does this surprise you? Why does it infuriate you that a woman who is beautiful wants a man who is beautiful?

 

And how exactly didn't the guy have to work nearly as hard as you did? Do you think that Ryan Gosling or Brad Pitt or Tom Cruise have a body like they do by sitting at home and eating fried chicken wings while playing league of legends?

 

 

Or do you think these guys don't spend a lot of money on their sense of fashion, beauty products, the dentist's, or that their personalities suddenly sprang from the Neverland, and they were all born charming and charismatic and confident?

 

 

Life is unfair? Sure, it is. There's millions, billions of people who are born in cultures that aren't exactly all that concerned with human rights, personal freedoms, and giving the people who live there the ability to choose their own mates, and then there's wars raging all over the world, diseases, poverty, mental problems, physical ailments..

 

 

 

I'm having a hard time figuring out how an average guy not getting a girl who is beautiful similar to these situations?

 

 

There's also the possibility that despite all your improvements, you STILL end up with no one. There's no guarantee in life.

 

 

With 7 billion people in the world, the only person who is going to end up alone - if they're really seeking a romantic partner - is if that person wants a 18 year old Angelina Jolie or a 30 year old Brad Pitt while being, way, way below their league.

 

 

A lot of people who are at the lowest of the lows would just wonder, what's the goddamn point then?

 

The thing is, it comes down to a simple decision. How do you want to go out in life? Do you want to die like a soldier facing a firing squad or rot in a death camp with no dignity? Cause that's what it really boils down to. It's a matter of personal value and dignity.

 

 

What?

 

 

 

I have no idea what you are talking about? Are you saying that if you can't get a gorgeous woman there's no point in being alive? Have you talked to professionals about these thoughts?

[elaine567]

Unfortunately, I've been scarred by too many bad experiences that my entire outlook is colored in grey.

 

Have you talked to professionals about these thoughts?

 

 

^^^^ this

..................

[brigit87]

. Unlike traditional Asian culture, white girls don't judge a guy at first for his career, education and high social status. That stuff comes later when a serious relationship is in the cards. Her top priority when she decides to date someone she just met is if he's attractive and if he's fun and easy to be around. How does she feel around him and stuff like that.

 

Asian guys don't learn how to have fun with girls and put them at ease while growing up. They are instead trained to get a good career, good education

 

...so date an asian girl. There are tons of pretty asian girls.

[ZA Dater]

Then that means the girl is beautiful, not pretty. If the guy is a 5 and aiming for an 8: don't you think he's reaching for someone out of his league and thus he's obviously going to end up frustrated and bitter when that same girl is going to go for a man in her own league or for someone higher?

 

 

Why fixate on someone that is more attractive than the guy, and not only more attractive than the guy but a LOT more attractive than him when he can find a girl who is a 5, like he is, and be happy with her,

 

 

I wish people who type this sort of advice could post a picture of themselves. My guess is they can get exactly what they want so its easy to trot out this advice at every turn.

 

 

Some might be happy settling but again I wager people who trot out this advice have never had to settle ever.

[elaine567]

...so date an asian girl. There are tons of pretty asian girls.

 

Ethan has fallen between two stools.

Apparently where he lives.

He is an Asian guy who grew up "white". His preference is not for Asian women, and many Asian girls also grew up "white" so their preference is for white guys, not Asian guys like Ethan.

Other Asian women want guys from their own tight knit Asian communities, not Westernised Asian guys like Ethan.

Sorry if I have got this wrong.

[sabaton]

All my friends are married or in serious relationships. And even when they were single, they had it so much easier. I went and did the same things as them and put in the same effort and I got nothing out of it and they did.

 

 

And what does that have anything to do with your dating life? How ''easy'' it was for your friends to date and to find women who wanted them?

 

 

 

There's billions of women in the world, there's so many men that women find attractive that aren't conventionally hot, and these men do well with women.

 

 

 

Social skills go a long way. making the woman comfortable, showing himself to be fun to be around, flirting and joking, all of that can help you a lot.

 

 

 

I've had too many bad experiences with Asian women that yah, I'm done. I just can't take their worshipping of white guys and looking down on any Asian man that dares to ask them out.

 

 

Are you seriously saying that every woman from Asia, that the majority of Asian women are rejecting every guy who is from their own race and having only eyes for white men?

 

 

 

How exactly are there 1 billion Asian people in the world from China alone if Asian women are only sexually interested in white guys? And another billion more from India?

 

 

 

When there's only 150 million white men in America and 350 million white men in Europe and many of those guys in both continent are probably too old to be considered attractive to those women that you want to get with?

 

 

I'm willing to date any other race including Arab/Middle Eastern, Black, Latina, White, etc.

 

I just can't deal anymore with my own kind.

 

 

 

You are enraged at Asian women according to your experience only wanting to date white men but you aren't interested in dating Asian women, who are your own race?

 

 

 

T

he only Asian exception is a Japanese woman because I find their views/mentality are similar to that of whites and not like other Asians

.

 

 

 

What exactly are those views and mentalities from white people that Asians do not have?

 

 

I grew up around white people. I was born in this country. I didn't make my first Asian friends until college. I wasn't aware there were these huge Asian communities. I have way more in common with a white person than I do with these tight-knit Asians.

 

 

Right, and the Asian-American women you want also grew up around white people and spent most of their time with Anglo-Saxon men, and you're annoyed that those same women want men who share the same culture they have except these guys are ''white'' and not Asian?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the beginning stages of dating, it's about having fun. Girls want to be with a guy who is fun to be around. A lot of Asian guys just aren't fun because they have ****ty lifestyles

 

 

Then be a fun guy to be around? What seems to be the problem? ****ty lifestyles? What do you perceive to be an unhealthy lifestyle?

 

 

 

 

 

. Unlike traditional Asian culture, white girls don't judge a guy at first for his career, education and high social status.

 

 

Man, you're all over the place with all of these weird generalizations. White people this, Asian people that, Asian people bad, white people amazing, being Asian as a man is awful, being Asian as a woman is amazing, so much hamstering and putting the blame on everyone but yourself for not having what you want.

 

 

What do you want? Do you want an Asian girlfriend or do you want a white girlfriend? There's lots of Asian men with white American women, go out and talk to them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That stuff comes later when a serious relationship is in the cards. Her top priority when she decides to date someone she just met is if he's attractive and if he's fun and easy to be around. How does she feel around him and stuff like that.

 

 

Then become sexually attractive, workout, visit the dentist and get braces, go to the dermatologist and clear your acne and skin if you suffer from that, get a good haircut or shave it all off if you are going bald, find clothes that look good and mold well against your body type, develop good body language and posture, develop your social skills, and there you go, you can have white women as your romantic partners.

 

 

 

 

 

Asian guys don't learn how to have fun with girls and put them at ease while growing up. They are instead trained to get a good career, good education and then when they finally achieve all that, it's like, "**** where are all the women and how come they are all dating these douchebags who haven't accomplished half of what I've done?"

 

 

Why don't you become a motivational coach for Asian men?

[elaine567]

I wish people who type this sort of advice could post a picture of themselves. My guess is they can get exactly what they want so its easy to trot out this advice at every turn.

Some might be happy settling but again I wager people who trot out this advice have never had to settle ever.

 

OK but this is also pertinent.

 

Why does it infuriate you that a woman who is beautiful wants a man who is beautiful?

 

 

It is a two way street.

Why would a beautiful, stable, caring, desirable woman "settle" for an average/below average guy, when her options in the main are of a higher standard than that? Why would she sell herself short?

[sabaton]

...so date an asian girl. There are tons of pretty asian girls.

 

 

I'm perplexed by what he wants. Reading his previous posts it seems he has accomplished a lot with his life, and that on paper he is everything that a woman from his culture could want,

 

 

 

but in one hand he complains that the women who are part of his culture are too demanding, and then he claims white women just want a guy who is fun and attractive and that's all it takes, AND THEN he complains about being a 3 and wanting girls who are 8s and impossible for him to reach.

 

 

It's like reading a ping-pong self-debate he's having with himself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wish people who type this sort of advice could post a picture of themselves. My guess is they can get exactly what they want so its easy to trot out this advice at every turn.

Yeah, you think that women are only dating men who are much more attractive than them or something?

 

 

like how most women and men are average and there are a very few handfuls of men who are above average, and then an even fewer amount of men who are above average, and then even less men who are cute, handsome, hot, and yet most men find themselves at one point or another in a few romantic relationships, a few hook-ups, and most men do end up getting married.

 

Why is it that when someone doesn't go all, ''oh yes, men have it terribly bad if they are average looking, they should just give up and become monastic monks if they don't look like Chris Hemsworth, and that's the only guy women want!'' someone shows up and accuses the person of being attractive.

 

 

I'm 5'7'' and 132lbs at 10% body fat, I'm tiny, bro, with the ''biggest'' I've ever been was 140lbs. I am hardly what you or most people would consider to be ''hot.'' I'm probably below average in the eyes of many, many people. Remember that the world is not just North America and Europe.

 

 

 

 

 

Some might be happy settling but again I wager people who trot out this advice have never had to settle ever.

Listen, no one is telling him to settle. And I don't see the point of accusing people that they never had to settle. For every girl that I've dated or hooked-up, I had to compete with other guys to get. You know how many guys are there after average and above average and attractive women? I didn't whine that I'm not 6 feet tall like the others are, I didn't whine that I'm a shrimp of a man that isn't going to potray the role of Captain America anytime soon, and I didn't cry my eyes out for not being blue eyed and blonde haired. I went out, and approached the women who were giving me signals of interest, and I smiled. And I talked. And I impressed them, with my words, with my self-confidence and with my sense of humor.

 

 

All personality traits that took me years and years to acquire after much effort and rejections.

 

 

It is a two way street.

Why would a beautiful, stable, caring, desirable woman "settle" for an average/below average guy, when her options in the main are of a higher standard than that? Why would she sell herself short?

Because there's a lot of young men who think they are entitled to young, beautiful women. They believe themselves to have a right to sexual access/relationships/marriage/children with women way out of their league because usually they are from traditional cultures where women have little choice in the partners they end up with, and those men are impressing the women's fathers, not the women themselves, and how they do that is with money, social status, and family connections.

Edited October 15, 2018 by sabaton

[brigit87]

Why would a beautiful, stable, caring, desirable woman "settle" for an average/below average guy, when her options in the main are of a higher standard than that? Why would she sell herself short?

 

Perfect point Elaine!

[Garcon1986]

I'm in the Bible Belt currently and hear about, just from walking around the hospital, tons of women who initially picked the cute guy, and then realized that he is a jerk, or abusive, or creates a lot of drama, and then constantly complain to their girlfriends about how rough their relationship is. It's rampant here, literally all over the place. These social butterflies could have picked a guy who is a little less hot but then, as a reward, got a stable loving husband.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Does it never cross the mind in those folks, that they made the wrong decision?

[elaine567]

I'm in the Bible Belt currently and hear about, just from walking around the hospital, tons of women who initially picked the cute guy, and then realized that he is a jerk, or abusive, or creates a lot of drama, and then constantly complain to their girlfriends about how rough their relationship is. It's rampant here, literally all over the place. These social butterflies could have picked a guy who is a little less hot but then, as a reward, got a stable loving husband.

Does it never cross the mind in those folks, that they made the wrong decision?

 

Rough relationships everywhere, it is not only hot, cute guys who can be jerks and be abusive.

Plain average guys can be the same, many carry huge chips into relationships.

If only it were so simple.

[thefooloftheyear]

I'm in the Bible Belt currently and hear about, just from walking around the hospital, tons of women who initially picked the cute guy, and then realized that he is a jerk, or abusive, or creates a lot of drama, and then constantly complain to their girlfriends about how rough their relationship is. It's rampant here, literally all over the place. These social butterflies could have picked a guy who is a little less hot but then, as a reward, got a stable loving husband.

?

 

Talk to those same women in a few years after they selected the average pudgy Beta "safe" guy....They trade security for lust/attraction/love and are usually pretty miserable...

 

TFY

[No_Go]

OP, your observation is very true. You can't improve "infinitely". You can become a slightly better version of what you are by default. The thing is you can become a much worse version of what you are if you don't maintain yourself. So it's still worth it to work on self-improvement, just don't expect miracles because these don't happen.

 

For dating, the best advice is to have a good, realistic, estimate of your own desirability and choose accordingly. Otherwise you'd end up bitter and dissatisfied (both if targeting too high or too low). Same applies for jobs.

[LuckyM]

Your pessimism will undermine your efforts throughout your life. How old are you?

It is hard to judge without knowing where you are located and other details.

 

I tend to agree with you only because I have had it difficult also, partly my own mistakes, bad luck and a late start and other issues.

 

Some people go through life without major challenges and guys who have always been fortunate cannot understand, neither will well meaning others, unfortunately.

[BeenThereDoneThatttt]

I'm in the Bible Belt currently and hear about, just from walking around the hospital, tons of women who initially picked the cute guy, and then realized that he is a jerk, or abusive, or creates a lot of drama, and then constantly complain to their girlfriends about how rough their relationship is. It's rampant here, literally all over the place. These social butterflies could have picked a guy who is a little less hot but then, as a reward, got a stable loving husband.

 

Does it never cross the mind in those folks, that they made the wrong decision?

 

 

My advice to you, as an older man, is to not pay attention to someone's WORDS, pay attention instead to their ACTIONS.

 

These women may be complaining about their boyfriends, and they may even be telling you how you are gonna make some lucky girl very happy. Well, but the thing is, the harsh real truth is that these women aren't dumping their boyfriends and you are still single. So those words don't mean much.

 

What is really taking place then. Maybe her boyfriend is a jerk but he has a lot of masculine energy and rocks her world in bed. Maybe on some level she LIKES the emotional highs and lows. Maybe for every time she about her boyfriend, she talks about something really sweet and endearing he did. OR maybe she secretly LIKES that her boyfriend is a bit difficult as she gets to be the patient sweet one in the relationship. She gets the great sex and the emotional rollercoaster and she gets to hear "what a good influence" she is on him or something

 

Cynical but true.

Edited October 15, 2018 by BeenThereDoneThatttt

[BeenThereDoneThatttt]

Anyway to get back to the Original Topic on Self-Improvement and Attracting Women, it is less about what people THINK of you and more about how you make them FEEL. I know of plenty of dudes who likely have a helluva less going for them on paper than you do (probably including even looks!) who have no problems getting women to love them. And I also know of a lot of guys who seemingly have it all--money, career, a cool list of hobbies, even looks--who still can't hold a woman's interest for 10 minutes.

 

Anyway, you should do Self-Improvement for YOU, not because it will help you attract a mate. You should get into shape, learn how to surf, play an instrument, crush it in your career, travel the world, because these things bring YOU joy.

Edited October 15, 2018 by BeenThereDoneThatttt

[Garcon1986]

Good points on paying attention to what women do, rather than what they claim to like. How do you explain the massive number of divorced women with really young children in the South? It's like on OLD websites, every day I see a few.

[EthanBlack]

Good points on paying attention to what women do, rather than what they claim to like. How do you explain the massive number of divorced women with really young children in the South? It's like on OLD websites, every day I see a few.

 

I know of divorced women who are good people and their ex-husband was also a good person. You never know what can go wrong in a relationship. If you've been in relationships, you would learn to never judge others. People's relations run their course for all sorts of reasons.

 

Also, I find what you're saying kinda hypocritical. As a guy, you favor women you find physically attractive and would be more forgiving of their faults than a woman who was not as attractive. That's just human nature. Women understand this and they adjust accordingly. Ever notice the average looking woman tends to be much more attentive, and behaves just a lot better? Whereas pretty women, they're a lil more aloof, neurotic and tend to say and do whatever they want.

 

It's part of the fun of dating someone attractive. Cause in the beginning stages, she's like essentially saying to you, "Prove to me you're worthy my affection."

 

It's a challenge that should be embraced. Also, as confident and independent as she is, all women want a secure, confident, strong man whom she can depend on. It's just that attractive women can afford to be choosy and so they're gonna test you more to see what you're really made of.

 

Btw, I'm not implying you need to prove her how tough you are. When I refer to a strong, confident male, I mean someone who is positive, sense of humour, has a zest for life and is trying to live the best life he can live.

 

What I'm complaining about in this thread is that self-improvement shouldn't be seen as some sorta miracle cure. You're doing it for yourself and for the right reasons, not so women can like you. Cause there's a chance that a women won't appreciate all the things you've got going on in your life. For example, a lot of women seem to like guys who can play instruments. But if the particular girl you'er pursuing has no interest in music and doesn't care about going to live concerts, then chances are she's not gonna appreciate your hobby. Same with if you enjoy working out and staying fit. There are women out there who aren't into fitness and being active and so she's not gonna really appreciate it.

 

You're doing it to make your own life better so that when you're on your death bed, you can at least say to yourself that you tried to live the best life you could.

 

That being said, there are a lot of those "lucky" guys who have no trouble getting women and get married and have kids and when they die on their deathbed, they got a TON of regrets even though they got the wife and kids and everything. But maybe they didn't fulfill something else they wanted to do. There's research to back this up because they actually interviewed old men who were in the twillight of their life and most of these men were married and had kids and did all the conventional stuff society expected them to do. But these people had a huge number of regrets and unfinished goals.

 

So if you're gonna be the forever alone guy, you can at least go out knowing that you tried and did what you could.

 

Or you could just maintain your negative attitude and live your loser life and hate everyone else and blame your location/circumstances and never try to improve anything.

Edited October 16, 2018 by EthanBlack