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Anyone totally given up? How'd it work out for you?


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LightWave93

It's been, what, three years now? I've struggled and I've tried and no matter what I do to change my circumstances, I can't win.

 

I don't want to be a player / womanizer, I just want a healthy dating life. I want to meet someone, get to know them, and then maybe have a little fun or something more substantial.

 

I'm not hideous looking, I do well in life, I'd like to think all-round I'm a decent person (flaws, like everyone else, but owns / works on them). Yet I simply cannot get a woman to find an interest in me. Online or offline, it's like I'm cursed and destined to be alone.

 

It's very lonesome, and I'm tired. I don't know what to do to find success in this area.

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normal person

Where do you think the problems arise from? What's causing all this?

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LightWave93
Where do you think the problems arise from? What's causing all this?

 

Let's be nice to each other this time. I think the last thread got locked because we got heated.

 

Honestly, no idea. I've sought feedback from so many professionals, friend and family now it's ridiculous how much I've actually received, and we have identified nothing that could be seen as a huge flaw in terms of attracting a partner; for all intents and purposes I've been told I'm good-looking, smart, fun to be around and other positive affirmations.

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Have your friends actively tried introducing you to women? (My hubby and I were set up by friends many years ago)

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normal person
Let's be nice to each other this time. I think the last thread got locked because we got heated.

 

My memory isn't so great and there a lot of posters on here to remember but maybe it got locked because nothing was getting accomplished.

 

Honestly, no idea. I've sought feedback from so many professionals, friend and family now it's ridiculous how much I've actually received, and we have identified nothing that could be seen as a huge flaw in terms of attracting a partner; for all intents and purposes I've been told I'm good-looking, smart, fun to be around and other positive affirmations.

 

So do you think there could be anything they aren't telling you because it would be of no benefit of them to hurt your feelings?

 

Also, what happens when you try to date these girls? How do you do it, do they say why they won't, etc?

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LightWave93
Have your friends actively tried introducing you to women? (My hubby and I were set up by friends many years ago)

 

Nope, nor have they wingman'd me in a nightclub despite me requesting them to do so, or them spontaneously volunteering to do so (mainly because they get caught up in their own entertainment / meeting someone, which is understandable).

 

My social circle is smaller than it used to be as I cut a lot of toxic people out. The few friends I do have don't really know anyone, or their friends are already in relationships etc.

 

So do you think there could be anything they aren't telling you because it would be of no benefit of them to hurt your feelings?

 

Also, what happens when you try to date these girls? How do you do it, do they say why they won't, etc?

 

I have full confidence in my friends that they would tell me if I was doing something wrong. I have no shadow of a doubt that they are being truthful. The same sentiments are echo'd online regarding my appearance when I show them pictures of me, and although it's much harder to judge my character through online communications I have had a handful say I come across as a nice person, intelligent etc.

 

Online I get few matches, but the ones I do get I will usually make a comment based on their profile (so, basically, not just "Hi, how are you?). Most times I won't get a response, but sometimes I will. If they make decent effort then usually a small conversation will follow, but either they'll simply stop responding or they'll stop after I get to asking them out / for their number.

 

Offline, I'll usually meet friends of friends prior to a night out or something, and I'll strike conversation with them when the time is appropriate. It may be just a quick exchange, or maybe a longer discussion, but I don't have any issue talking or being playful...but even then there's no sign they are interested, and I can recognize them clear as day as I've seen it happen with other friends of mine. I don't cold approach on nights out / bars either, but I'll dance around and have fun like everyone else does.

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Are you staying age-appropriate and not trying to date young ones? That's one of the most common mistakes. The other is thinking you're more attractive than you are and being picky about how a woman looks. I really believe most people can date if they are willing to keep lowering their attractiveness standard. I realize that's easier said than done.

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normal person

I'm not sure if this conversation will be any different than the last ones. You say you do everything without issue, yet yield no results. Do you find you're seeing the same faces over and over? It might be time to move to a bigger city with a bigger sample size and wider range of possibilities.

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LightWave93
Are you staying age-appropriate and not trying to date young ones?

 

That's a little awkward to answer, as I am in an environment predominately of 18-21 year olds (I'm 25), however generally speaking I've noticed the women here will go for older men, and I've never had it be said or alluded to that age is my problem. We're pretty much all on the same footing in life anyway, working towards education, albeit I have more work / life experience.

 

I do try and aim for women in their 20's, however.

 

The other is thinking you're more attractive than you are and being picky about how a woman looks. I really believe most people can date if they are willing to keep lowering their attractiveness standard. I realize that's easier said than done.

 

I try not to think about my attractiveness. I spent years thinking I was really ugly as a result of any attention from women, but I've been reassured time and time again that's not the case. In fact, I've been told by many people (including women) that I'm "above average", "handsome" and "should be getting dates / flings".

 

I go for a variety of women, as I find many different types beautiful. What I have noticed, however, is that I don't have many friendships with above-average looking women whereas I get on completely fine and have good friendships with average-to-below average women. And for the record, most of my friends are female, and I've been told outright I'm comfortable to be around.

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LightWave93
I'm not sure if this conversation will be any different than the last ones. You say you do everything without issue, yet yield no results. Do you find you're seeing the same faces over and over? It might be time to move to a bigger city with a bigger sample size and wider range of possibilities.

 

With respect, I think one of the reasons why our conversations went nowhere previously is because some users assumed I was lying, and there was a lot of nitpicking (on both sides). For example, I've never said I do anything with issue, it's just that I've done all the common advice strategies and non of them had worked out for me. I had to drop many of my hobbies / jobs because I got overwhelmed with how miserable they made me feel not making any friends / dates, and decided to focus on my studies (which I've just graduated with a top degree, so that worked out okay :laugh:).

 

I can't move to a bigger city with a bigger sample size. I have another year of study. Furthermore, I travel around a fair amount as I live in an area surrounding by many towns / cities in the UK, so with online dating in particular I'm in range of a rather large pool.

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You say that you have conversations with the women you meet, but do you actually ask them out? In other words, do you swing and miss or do you just sit back and watch the balls go by...

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LightWave93
You say that you have conversations with the women you meet, but do you actually ask them out? In other words, do you swing and miss or do you just sit back and watch the balls go by...

 

It varies greatly. Women will usually speak with me, have a good time with me etc, but there's never any sign of attraction there which I can recognize clearly when I observe similar habits from friends (which is odd, as subjectively I am more attractive / outgoing than them, and have been told as such). On the rare occasion I feel the interaction went well enough to warrant asking them out, then I will do so. This is met with rejection, which I take well and have no issue with other than...well, that it always happens.

 

Funnily enough, a lot of my female friends have said I'm attractive, charming etc, and many who do have boyfriends have told me that at one point or another their partners saw me as a threat to their relationship. I also had an occasion months ago when I was told that a group of around five girls, two of which were homosexual, commented on how attractive / interested I was when I had left the room. Allow me to have this minor brag; usually I come here with only negatives to say.

 

I don't meet that many women, though. I never feel into the more expansive social circles and I never meet anyone through the activities I do, which is frustrating.

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Your guess is as good as mine. Dating can be difficult at the best of times, it's hard to say what the problem may be... I wish you good luck with your search!

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One thing you definitely don't need to worry about is being a womanizer.

 

 

 

You need to get dates for that to happen.

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That's a little awkward to answer, as I am in an environment predominately of 18-21 year olds (I'm 25), however generally speaking I've noticed the women here will go for older men, and I've never had it be said or alluded to that age is my problem. We're pretty much all on the same footing in life anyway, working towards education, albeit I have more work / life experience.

 

I do try and aim for women in their 20's, however.

 

 

 

I try not to think about my attractiveness. I spent years thinking I was really ugly as a result of any attention from women, but I've been reassured time and time again that's not the case. In fact, I've been told by many people (including women) that I'm "above average", "handsome" and "should be getting dates / flings".

 

I go for a variety of women, as I find many different types beautiful. What I have noticed, however, is that I don't have many friendships with above-average looking women whereas I get on completely fine and have good friendships with average-to-below average women. And for the record, most of my friends are female, and I've been told outright I'm comfortable to be around.

 

So realizing I have only the info you give me to draw conclusions from, it doesn't seem like it's an age problem if you're trying to stay in the 20s. That's not a big gap.

 

You have only women friends who you consider below average. Honestly, I think that is probably the attractiveness level who finds you attractive. So I kind of think that is the issue. You may be around so many young women in their prime that your measure of attractiveness is skewed. But just because they're plentiful doesn't mean that pool will choose you IF there's what they consider better candidates. Again, just going by what I can glean from what you say. I think that group who is drawn to you even if it's just friends is your dating peer group. Good luck.

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normal person
That's a little awkward to answer, as I am in an environment predominately of 18-21 year olds (I'm 25), however generally speaking I've noticed the women here will go for older men, and I've never had it be said or alluded to that age is my problem. We're pretty much all on the same footing in life anyway, working towards education, albeit I have more work / life experience.

 

Herein lies the problem. You're 25 and everyone else is up to 7 years younger than you. Women very often do like older men, but it's usually because with age, they have success, prestige, an established career, etc. You're older and at the same stage in life as they are, so your age gives you no advantage, it actually works against you.

 

I try not to think about my attractiveness. I spent years thinking I was really ugly as a result of any attention from women, but I've been reassured time and time again that's not the case. In fact, I've been told by many people (including women) that I'm "above average", "handsome" and "should be getting dates / flings".

 

I'm not making any determination or insinuation about you but if you're attractive, you attract people. There's no upside for your friends to tell you things they don't find appealing about you. I'm not saying they're lying, but if what they're saying doesn't match reality, maybe take what they say with a grain of salt. If everyone tells you how great you are at something, but objectively you have no results to speak of, maybe you should reassess which gauge is the more accurate one. I'm personally one to think the market is always right regardless of my own opinions on things.

 

Maybe they're withholding something like "you're a great guy ...but you're 6 years older than me and still in school and it's kinda creepy," or "you're a great guy and you should be getting dates... with people your own age."

 

It varies greatly. Women will usually speak with me, have a good time with me etc, but there's never any sign of attraction there which I can recognize clearly when I observe similar habits from friends (which is odd, as subjectively I am more attractive / outgoing than them, and have been told as such). On the rare occasion I feel the interaction went well enough to warrant asking them out, then I will do so. This is met with rejection, which I take well and have no issue with other than...well, that it always happens.

 

If you want a girl to like you, you usually have to make her feel something. If they merely "have a good time," there is a lot of room for misinterpretation, and a lot you could probably do better. You need to excite her emotions somehow. Usually it's done by being interesting, funny, etc. It's an uphill battle if the only thing they comes to mind when they think about you is that you're "nice."

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LightWave93
I think that group who is drawn to you even if it's just friends is your dating peer group. Good luck.

 

They're my friends. Nothing more.

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LightWave93
Herein lies the problem. You're 25 and everyone else is up to 7 years younger than you. Women very often do like older men, but it's usually because with age, they have success, prestige, an established career, etc. You're older and at the same stage in life as they are, so your age gives you no advantage, it actually works against you.

 

 

 

I'm not making any determination or insinuation about you but if you're attractive, you attract people. There's no upside for your friends to tell you things they don't find appealing about you. I'm not saying they're lying, but if what they're saying doesn't match reality, maybe take what they say with a grain of salt. If everyone tells you how great you are at something, but objectively you have no results to speak of, maybe you should reassess which gauge is the more accurate one. I'm personally one to think the market is always right regardless of my own opinions on things.

 

Maybe they're withholding something like "you're a great guy ...but you're 6 years older than me and still in school and it's kinda creepy," or "you're a great guy and you should be getting dates... with people your own age."

 

 

 

If you want a girl to like you, you usually have to make her feel something. If they merely "have a good time," there is a lot of room for misinterpretation, and a lot you could probably do better. You need to excite her emotions somehow. Usually it's done by being interesting, funny, etc. It's an uphill battle if the only thing they comes to mind when they think about you is that you're "nice."

 

I'm not going to debate the age thing again. I'm not sure about your experiences but where I'm from, age isn't an issue. And like I've said, I aim to date in the same bracket as me.

 

As for feedback vs reality. I agree. It doesn't make sense, albeit those positive characteristics do have a good inflence on my professional and personal life outside of dating.

 

I'd like to think of myself as funny and interesting. Others have said I am too.

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normal person
I'm not going to debate the age thing again. I'm not sure about your experiences but where I'm from, age isn't an issue.

 

Something is the issue. You say it's not your age, you say it's not your personality, you say it's not your look, you say it's not anything discernible. My guess is that it's your age coinciding with your stage in life. The girls in school likely see you as too old, or too old to be still in school, and the girls your own age likely think you're too behind the ball.

 

And like I've said, I aim to date in the same bracket as me.

 

So are these 25 year olds still in school like you, or are they well into their careers already? Maybe the issue isn't age, but stage in life. As I said, women tend to like older men because they're established. If you're trying to date women who are your age but already years ahead of you in terms of career and lifestyle, you're fighting an uphill battle with her because the rest of her dating pool is on par with her or beyond. Women want to advance their lifestyles and standards of living, not go backwards.

 

 

As for feedback vs reality. I agree. It doesn't make sense, albeit those positive characteristics do have a good inflence on my professional and personal life outside of dating.

 

I'd like to think of myself as funny and interesting. Others have said I am too.

 

If I were you, at some point I'd stop leaning on things people have said about me if those things don't match reality. If everyone tells me I'm a great golfer because I have a great swing and the best clubs, but my score is still terrible, maybe I'm not such a great golfer after all. There seems to be a big disparity between peoples' opinions and reality. Maybe they're not telling the truth, maybe they're withholding something, maybe they're just bad judges. Whatever the reason, perhaps it's time to reexamine. If you really can't find the problem, maybe it is something more discrete like your age. People have nothing to gain by telling you it's an issue. If you've never heard that, I can see why you think it's not a problem. But there's no reason for anyone to vocalize it. And because you seem to think that nothing else is the problem, and/or you have hard confirmation that the other things aren't the issue, what makes you think you can rule it out? Until you can find a more believable reason for your lack of success, this should be the main suspect.

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They're my friends. Nothing more.

 

I mean yes they're your friends -- but they're also the group who feels equal to you and probably your best dating pool if you want to date -- not necessarily those particular friends, but in that attractiveness range and interests range.

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LightWave93
Something is the issue. You say it's not your age, you say it's not your personality, you say it's not your look, you say it's not anything discernible. My guess is that it's your age coinciding with your stage in life. The girls in school likely see you as too old, or too old to be still in school, and the girls your own age likely think you're too behind the ball.

 

 

 

So are these 25 year olds still in school like you, or are they well into their careers already? Maybe the issue isn't age, but stage in life. As I said, women tend to like older men because they're established. If you're trying to date women who are your age but already years ahead of you in terms of career and lifestyle, you're fighting an uphill battle with her because the rest of her dating pool is on par with her or beyond. Women want to advance their lifestyles and standards of living, not go backwards.

 

 

 

 

If I were you, at some point I'd stop leaning on things people have said about me if those things don't match reality. If everyone tells me I'm a great golfer because I have a great swing and the best clubs, but my score is still terrible, maybe I'm not such a great golfer after all. There seems to be a big disparity between peoples' opinions and reality. Maybe they're not telling the truth, maybe they're withholding something, maybe they're just bad judges. Whatever the reason, perhaps it's time to reexamine. If you really can't find the problem, maybe it is something more discrete like your age. People have nothing to gain by telling you it's an issue. If you've never heard that, I can see why you think it's not a problem. But there's no reason for anyone to vocalize it. And because you seem to think that nothing else is the problem, and/or you have hard confirmation that the other things aren't the issue, what makes you think you can rule it out? Until you can find a more believable reason for your lack of success, this should be the main suspect.

 

Can you PLEASE just accept the fact that people are not lying to me and just move this discussion forward? I have, quite literally, had hundreds of people, online and off, friends and strangers, professionals and coaches, tell me the things I have described in this thread. I understand and agree it is very odd given the circumstances, but by insisting people are withholding the truth we end up just revisiting that point and make no progress. I cannot stress enough; I have no reason to believe these people have lied to me. I've had two women this very week tell me they are really surprised i have no luck with dating, and a guy say if I lived closer to him he'd buy me a drink because I'm an awesome guy to talk to.

 

I go for many types of women. Some are "more advanced" than me, but the majority are less so or on-par.

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LightWave93
I mean yes they're your friends -- but they're also the group who feels equal to you and probably your best dating pool if you want to date -- not necessarily those particular friends, but in that attractiveness range and interests range.

 

They don't show an interest in me either. No woman from any walk of life does.

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normal person
Can you PLEASE just accept the fact that people are not lying to me and just move this discussion forward? I have, quite literally, had hundreds of people, online and off, friends and strangers, professionals and coaches, tell me the things I have described in this thread. I understand and agree it is very odd given the circumstances, but by insisting people are withholding the truth we end up just revisiting that point and make no progress. I cannot stress enough; I have no reason to believe these people have lied to me. I've had two women this very week tell me they are really surprised i have no luck with dating, and a guy say if I lived closer to him he'd buy me a drink because I'm an awesome guy to talk to.

 

I go for many types of women. Some are "more advanced" than me, but the majority are less so or on-par.

 

I'm not sure what you expect to get out of this forum, then. How do you expect to make progress? Everything that gets suggested as perhaps part of the problem is most definitely not the problem and is vehemently shot down. You say you do every single thing right, and won't entertain examination of the circumstances. I don't see what anyone could tell you that you wouldn't say "No, that's not the problem, trust me. Plenty of people have told me that isn't the problem."

 

My point being, if people tell you you don't have a problem, yet here you are, miserable, unable to escape a problem, what does it matter what they say? Why do the opinions of others mean anything when the evidence to the contrary is so prevalent and inescapable over a span of years?

 

I'm not saying your friends are necessarily wrong, but I am saying the market is always right. If I were you, I wouldn't be above entertaining some outside perspectives considering none of the perspectives you've got up to this point have held much weight.

 

So is there anything that you think might be the problem that's worth discussing, considering everything else that gets posited is not the problem?

Edited by normal person
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I really believe most people can date if they are willing to keep lowering their attractiveness standard. I realize that's easier said than done.

 

99% of the time, anyone who cannot find a date just needs to lower the attractiveness threshold of the people they are willing to date. If you truly want a date, focus on those slightly below average girls at first.

 

People are full of crap. ...

 

I think it comes down to the looks also.

 

OP, you're young. Hit it and quit it (the uggos who want you, forget their feelings) like it's no one's business. My guess is you'll gain knowledge and insights from the experiences, that you otherwise would not. Have them on the side while you pursue the ones you want. Maybe you'll realize you can't get the ones you want.

 

I don't know if it'll change your predicament in the future (i.e., you gain these experiences, but you're still in the same predicament). But my guess is you'll be better off, maybe. I guess I'm saying if I got to do age 25 over again, I'm plowing (the uggos, everything). Put a bag over her head, and it's all the same.

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Trying to find out why one can't get a date is a mystery.

 

i would just try to concentrate on situations that make you happy. You don't have to try to date to give value to yourself.

 

I just think that things just fall in place and no major planning is going to make it work one way for one vs the other.

 

My buddy SA met his wife in 1988. Married her in 1997. Broke up in 2017 and has new Girl frirend now.

 

I have had a GF since hs in 1989/1990/2012 technically. I have had lots of dates and romantic situations. I can't tell you why I have a hard time with dating myself.

 

For me I think I have to let a woman find me. My search never results in anything happy for myself. So once again, I say let the search go and be happy with your life now.

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