The ace in the hole for average Joes

[irc333]

I have noticed that with some of the women I've dated that have actually accepted dates with me are more into personality than looks.

 

As I'm currently involved with a woman who is just that. She never even had any celebrity "heart throbs" as she's never been concerned much with physical appearances. Funnily enough, she is quite shocked as to why I haven't been snatched up already because she actually has acknowledged the fact that I'm a good catch. Now, I'm not conceited or anything, just speaking the truth.

 

I find her cute, but she, herself admits she's more of an average Jane just much as I consider myself an average Joe.

 

She is one of those very rare, unselfish, patient, and accepting ladies that I've been lucky enough to come across.

 

I've noticed some posts about how even average looking people will settle for no less than "hunks/babes" when they cannot bring much to the table themselves when it comes to their own upkeep and appearances.

 

I think that, too, was my issue with having been unattached for so long, just simply coming across women that were so overly obsessed with looks that they overlook what's important in a relationship or seeking out someone.

 

I did meet her at a public event and NOT online as she doesn't care for online dating, so that helps. lol. She also lives within' minutes from me, so we're geographically desirable...again, that also helps. We have a LOT in common, same belief systems, humor of the most obscure pop culture references, and very like minded.

 

I have to kind of laugh at the the PUA advice given on here about what a MAN can do to "attract" a woman by "creating" attraction, when in fact in my case, it happened very organically, flowed naturally, and there were NO steps taken or advice that I followed from these forums or advice given here.

 

She was simply into me because of my personality and ability to simply be myself.

 

That being said, some may still argue my point, but this rather proves that you don't have to follow any kind of PUA dating "rulebook" to attract woman, but some can simply keep doing what they are doing until they find someone that accepts them for them, yes? :-)

[Scales]

Firstly, I want to say congrats to you irc. You've been going at this for awhile, and it's always nice to see people succeed on LS. Your consistency and insights are definitely admirable. Now please excuse me while I state my long-winded opinion about PUA.

 

Let me play devil's advocate for a bit and clear a few things up about PUA. A lot of people on LS constantly dismiss pickup or "game" as some kind of snake oil for the desperate. I would have to agree to some extent. However, the core of pickup was founded on social constructs in society today which is what makes it so interesting. Courting has changed so much just over the last 100 years that many are having trouble keeping up. Others have easily adapted. The pick up community never said you can't meet women with out their tricks, only 5%(guessing) of the world population is even aware of it. They only say they can make it easier, faster, and consistent.

 

At the core of picking women up lies social intelligence which is very different from intellectualism. In fact, many people who grow up to be very talented intellectuals often lack social intelligence. They are awkward, uncomfortable at parties, and often dress how they want. There are practices and techniques to circumvent these issues that someone, who did not grow up being a social maverick, can learn. It can improve their life dramatically. You do not have to follow pick up to learn it, but you do have to identify your own social issues and consciously improve them until they are fixed. Many people don't and continue to suffer. The pick up community did at least expose people to learning to be more effective in social environments. However, they do it at the cost of taking peoples money and making them more unhappy because they are focused on getting laid rather than improving themselves.

 

It is unfortunate that the pickup community was taken over by narcissists and marketers. You can tell from all the nicknames and abbreviations they have for everything. They even have a label for every guy not in the community: the AFC (average F$*% Chump). I found this term in general to be immature and egotistical. The terms were created to put their own egos on a different level and gain imaginary superiority. Even the word PUA (Pick up Artist) is ridiculous. Should they really be considered artists? Someone praised for a beautiful skill? Not at all in my opinion. Here's why.

 

A regular average guy can find a good relationship over time. Pick up has always known that. They also know that many men feel not in control in their relationships. What pick up portends to do is shorten the amount of time needed to meet women, having sex with them, AND(this is the big one) having total control in the relationship. It isn't enough for a PUA to just meet a girl, they need the girl to completely submit mentally. The girl must deal with the man's needs, they allow them to disrespect them in ways they would never allow (like allowing them to sleep with other women), and start to enjoy being treated like objects. It's manipulative and unhealthy.

 

I did enjoy reading texts about pick up because the social aspects fascinate me, but I stopped caring about it after I read that 80% of the girls they(The two most famous PUA's Style and Mystery) picked up were from night clubs. These guys just learned to identify the most desperate girls in the club, how to manipulate their insecurities, and how to sleep with them. It's not honorable nor is it something to be admired or celebrated. They boast their ego's to such a sky high level from picking on insecure women who are drunk. Is it a skill though? Yes it is. Should they be consulted on how to create a great relationship, understand a woman's needs, or be successful in life? No. These people are manipulative at heart and men who follow them fail to realize they are also being manipulated. The same social techniques used on desperate women also work to take money from desperate men.

 

In closing, the social ides used at the core of pick up are still golden. Ideas like: body language, social value, maintaining a strong frame, maintaining eye contact, how to create stimulating conversation, how to not come off needy, and how to dress well. These are all about self improvement in social situations and can improve your life dramatically. Following the narcissistic and expensive path of the pick up community is not necessary to apply these ideas to your own life. If you focus on self improvement, PUA ideas can be quite useful as long as ignore all garbage thrown in about getting laid all the time.

 

TL;DR The social ideas presented in pick up are very useful to most people. Pick up artists are narcissists who abuse these ideas in order to make money and have sex. They are not to be celebrated(not that anyone was).

[irc333]

 

In closing, the social ides used at the core of pick up are still golden. Ideas like: body language, social value, maintaining a strong frame, maintaining eye contact, how to create stimulating conversation, how to not come off needy, and how to dress well.

 

 

I had to bold "needy" as I sometimes think this was the brunt of my problem when socializing with women, though "needy" is a subjective term (from a perspective), so its been rather hard to gauge whether I'm consider "needy" or not from a specific woman.

 

I surmised it as, if she's interested, she won't consider you "needy", if she's not interested, you'd be considered "needy". lol.

 

Though lately, I've learned to keep things light in conversion, but still some women think JUST because you're talking to them, you're about to ask them for their hand in marriage, so some women can be presumptuous enough to think that you're "interested" in them simply by talking to them.

 

I'm like "get over yourself"

 

I think I had a recent revelation when a woman showed her cards of narcassism. I knew her for a time in Meetup, and I was going around taking photos of poeple. I took one of her and she said, "So...what are going to do with that picture?" and I responded, "Post it on the Meetup site" and she said, "Oh, you're not going to blow it up and hang it on your wall? Har har har har!"

 

And I gave her a dirty look and said, "Seriously, get over yourself!"

 

That took her down a peg and felt pretty good on my part to put her in her place.

[preraph]

You hit the nail on the head. Half the problems of the posters of this board are they all want the perfect looking dream girl like they see on tv, and that just isn't going to happen unless they're a perfect looking dream guy better than what you see on tv (who tends to put average joes with dream girls because the creators also have the same issue as the people on this board). This board is full of guys verging on inadequate because their confidence is so bad that are trying to learn how to work up their nerve to go after women way out of their league. And they don't realize that if they'd stop thinking about women way out of their league and date women maybe they think aren't all that, then they'd at least build their confidence and hopefully in the process learn that women are good for more than just to look at.

 

Having things fall into place as they have for you is what happens when people grow up a little and actually get to know some women and stop being shallow and realize that women are people, not just a sexual object for them to "obtain" any way they can.

 

Congratulations!

[AD1980]

You hit the nail on the head. Half the problems of the posters of this board are they all want the perfect looking dream girl like they see on tv, and that just isn't going to happen unless they're a perfect looking dream guy better than what you see on tv (who tends to put average joes with dream girls because the creators also have the same issue as the people on this board). This board is full of guys verging on inadequate because their confidence is so bad that are trying to learn how to work up their nerve to go after women way out of their league. And they don't realize that if they'd stop thinking about women way out of their league and date women maybe they think aren't all that, then they'd at least build their confidence and hopefully in the process learn that women are good for more than just to look at.

 

Having things fall into place as they have for you is what happens when people grow up a little and actually get to know some women and stop being shallow and realize that women are people, not just a sexual object for them to "obtain" any way they can.

 

Congratulations!

 

Oh please the idea that all of us struggling guys are going after super models is lAughable..average looking women can be shallow as well..

 

As far as leagues you say that as if it's easy to know who's in your league like people have their attractivenes level writer on their forehead

[guest569]

Congrats there is a lot of advice on here about how to look and act, but you have found someone who likes you for who you really are.

[Smilecharmer]

I think you are right. Find someone who likes you for you. At the need of the day it isn't looks that keeps relationships strong and forges strong bonds but personality, faith and chemistry. Aside from my husband the best chemistry I ever had with anyone was a short unattractive at first, auto mechanic who was just as sweet as he could be. After falling for him he became very cute to me because he was a smart, sweet funny guy who was also altruistic. I did break up with him because he decided he didn't want to have kids and I did. Otherwise we might have gotten married even though none of my friends understood the attraction based on looks. He had the most beautiful dark brown eyes, such soulful eyes.

I hope you find happiness with this woman. Keep updating. Happy for you.

[angel.eyes]

Glad you found someone who seems liked a great match, irc. I knew you would! Thanks for the update and best of luck with her.

[kolleamm]

Congrats on meeting someone without the use of online dating. That's something I truly admire.

[TheyCallMeOx]

I never understood the whole "PUA" system. I have a friend who spent hundreds of dollars on those kinds of videos, but talking to me has proved to be more useful than all that. PUA, to me, is manipulation. Although one-night stands and short-term dating is fun stuff, I don't find it real impressive. A man can be a pick-up artist and have sex with 10,000 women, but I think actually finding a woman for romantic reasons is a completely different process. It should be, at least. When you're someone other than your authentic self, all you're doing is putting on a mask. When it comes to long-term dating, it's really all about being yourself because...if you can't be yourself 100% of the time, you're going to show inconsistencies in your personality. When you're yourself, and a woman becomes attracted to you, she's being attracted to you. Yeah, you may get into less relationships, and have less sex when you're not being yourself, but you and 10,000 women you've "picked-up" probably aren't going to be buried next to you when you die; probably don't even want to even if they had the option to. It's about confidence in yourself, and always has been, but people try to over-complicate things. With confidence in yourself, you bring out the best in you. A smile can make all the difference, your posture, and everything else. That's just common sense. What you don't know, you learn in communication classes throughout high school and college.

 

With that being said, I'm glad things are going great for you. I hope things continue to improve in your life and you get exactly what you want.

[irc333]

I never understood the whole "PUA" system.

 

I know what you mean and some men have been known to go back to their true colors once they've gotten what they want, which had lead to the demise of relationships lasting probably a few months.

 

This whole "creating attraction" thing is something I don't go for, I didn't have to "create" anything for this woman to be attracted to me, she just simply was attracted to me.

 

Personally, and this is just a theory of mine, I think some people are compatible with only those who start off the initial courtship process.

 

You know how some methods work well with some people, I'll have to give an example of my situation. I like to keep things light, a "friends first" situation, no pressure, etc.

 

Sometimes talking to a woman without flirting with her at first and just keeping things light can attract a certain type of woman. A woman not into looks would appreciate this, while other women may find this off putting or doesn't really get them "hot and bothered".

 

A woman into brainy, intellectual guys, though these men may not be all that attractive to the general public, there are just certain characteristics that only attract a certain kind of woman.

[AD1980]

It is pretty easy to know who is in your league. If you're an average looking guy, with a regular job, and no immense talents to speak of, that super hot 20 year old bikini babe isn't in your league. Oh, and if every girl you ask out isn't interested, it can be a clue you're trying to play out of your league.

 

 

You're talking extremes most people you see everyday are either average a little above average or a little below most people you see aren't 10's

[Revolver]

You hit the nail on the head. Half the problems of the posters of this board are they all want the perfect looking dream girl like they see on tv, and that just isn't going to happen unless they're a perfect looking dream guy better than what you see on tv (who tends to put average joes with dream girls because the creators also have the same issue as the people on this board). This board is full of guys verging on inadequate because their confidence is so bad that are trying to learn how to work up their nerve to go after women way out of their league. And they don't realize that if they'd stop thinking about women way out of their league and date women maybe they think aren't all that, then they'd at least build their confidence and hopefully in the process learn that women are good for more than just to look at.

 

Having things fall into place as they have for you is what happens when people grow up a little and actually get to know some women and stop being shallow and realize that women are people, not just a sexual object for them to "obtain" any way they can.

 

Congratulations!

 

 

I've never seen the male high standards going for women out of his league thing in real life. Most average/below average looking guys I know are single and just want SOMEONE or simply took what they could get

 

 

There's a big difference between admiring the "ten" from afar and actually going after said "ten". I know tons of guys who dream of owning a porshe... But go to the dealership? For what? To embarrass themselves? Lol

[Disillusioned]

AFAIC women may like a man who has his s. together, but honestly I don't feel like I'm there yet.

 

Some people have congratulated me because I went back to school this spring, but I tell them to congratulate me after I graduate and become my own boss after this fall.

 

It's said women like "successful" men... but I wonder if success, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Being my own boss, having enough leisure time to be happy and pursue my hobbies, and not having to worry about being short of money... those things are my definition of success. I don't need to become a billionaire to be successful.