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Am I with the wrong person?..."political"

Getting Married Cold feet to pre-marital stressors--the place to discuss all the issues that come with saying "I do."

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Old 6th February 2017, 12:33 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by lana-banana View Post
Healthy relationships are about shared values, especially the ones we hold most dear. Why should political values be exempt?
Don't think most here are saying they should be and I'll accept a relationship is easier if the fundamental political and social values are shared.

But there are good people on both sides of the divide. Asserting that either camp has cornered the market on "misogyny and racism" - amongst other sins - is naive, simplistic and counter to some of the values the OP has professed to hold.

I can question my partner's beliefs. Questioning their integrity without considering a greater context is its own lack of tolerance...

Mr. Lucky
"Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not; remember that what you now have was once among the things you only hoped for." - Epicurus
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Old 6th February 2017, 1:09 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by ConfusedAF View Post
"As am I. And to me, that liberal set of values includes tolerance for the beliefs of others and their right to express them. Can't have it both ways.." Comments like that is what I was referring to. People are free to express their thoughts, but that doesn't mean I won't have an opinion about that. Anyway, he and I disagree all the time about a lot of things and that is not the problem. As I also mentioned, to me this is different due to the misogyny, racism, etc that has been so prevalent in this election. It's not about me just wanting to be right. It's about values. .
Yes and your values do not match. Break off the engagement and perhaps you will meet another man who has the same values as you. At least you will know you when the next election starts in 4 years that you are with someone who has the same values as you.
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Old 6th February 2017, 3:45 PM   #48
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Thank you, Lana-Banana, for putting that into words so eloquently. This is what I've been trying to say.

And thanks for the rest of you for your perspective and advice!
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Old 10th February 2017, 11:22 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by ConfusedAF View Post
Thank you, Lana-Banana, for putting that into words so eloquently. This is what I've been trying to say.

And thanks for the rest of you for your perspective and advice!
I'll be honest, ConfusedAF. I have similar beliefs to yours and in your situation I would be seriously re-thinking my relationship.

I haven't had any problem in the past getting along with people who consider themselves more to the right - Bush II voters, McCain voters, Romney voters - I disagree with them, but I understand their perspective and I enjoyed intelligent political discourse with those people in the past.

However, a wrench has been thrown in the wheels this election cycle. Trump embodies everything that I consider to be a "line in the sand," as it has been mentioned earlier in this thread. There is absolutely no way I could be in a relationship with someone who voted for or supports him. I spend my mornings calling local, state, and national representatives (have you downloaded the Countable app? It's an incredible tool for keeping up to date on what legislature is currently being debated by our representatives. It outlines the best ways for you to make your voice heard.), and I spend many of my afternoons or evenings participating in local progressive action committees that put together everything from peaceful protests to information booths.

In all of this, my husband has been a partner and a support. While we may disagree on some small specifics, we are both horrified by the state of our government and national culture ATM and it has actually brought us closer together.

I just can't imagine coming home to someone every night who not only disagreed about how scary of a time this is, but who then tried to convince me that my efforts for change are a waste. They're not. They're important. This is history - for better or for worse.

So, OP, I absolutely think you are in the right to re-examine this relationship. I would likely not be able to continue in it if I were in your shoes.
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Old 10th February 2017, 11:23 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by lana-banana View Post
Mightycpa, you are one of my all-time favorite people on these boards and are as wise as the day is long, so your take on this has really surprised me. The OP is wondering whether she can date someone who doesn't share her values, who has repeatedly been dismissive of issues she cares about, and who upholds a philosophy she ultimately doesn't agree with. Those are good questions to ask. But rather than address her concerns you set up strawmen that portray the OP as a complete radical nutjob. Per your assertions if she doesn't like his opinions then she must be judging him as a person, she's obviously intolerant and a hypocrite, she must think everyone who disagrees with her is racist and misogynistic and her boyfriend deserves better. Or something.

Just two examples:

No right-thinking person would agree with this proposition, because it is insane. Misogyny and racism are not even remotely like murder. Misogyny and racism are complex evils that arose out of millennia of societal norms, cultural traditions, gender roles, and so on. Everyone perpetuates some degree of misogyny and racism, and we live within a system that promotes them to some way. They are concepts to be recognized and mitigated. They are not singular actions.

Bzuh? That is the polar opposite of logical. Not choosing something is not by definition the wrong choice. In this (already farfetched) example I think we'd agree that someone who actively opposed feminism would be a much worse position than someone who simply didn't protest for feminist causes. In this case, the OP's boyfriend doesn't seem to support feminist causes. It does not at all follow that he is a racist or misogynist, because not supporting something does not mean opposing it. Literally no one has said that in this thread except for you.

For some reason you are trying to paint the OP as an insufferable Social Justice 101 Tumblr-posting shrieking harpy and deconstructing that instead of talking to the very real person here. Being disappointed by her partner's reaction to current events does not mean she doesn't support free expression or different opinions. The point about how she might be so dangerously intolerant as to cause some kind of scene with a business partner or boss is beyond absurd. Once again there is no evidence anywhere that the OP can't get along with someone who thinks differently than she does, but you are implying she clearly can't handle it.

I welcome a broad spectrum of opinions, but that doesn't mean I welcome all of them in my potential life partners. There is a difference between a healthy exchange of ideals or making polite conversation at a cocktail party and spending the rest of your life with someone. If my fiancÚ woke up tomorrow and said "honey, I don't believe in climate change and I really think abortion ought to be outlawed", that would be the end for us.

Healthy relationships are about shared values, especially the ones we hold most dear. Why should political values be exempt?
You're very sweet too. Thank you.

It's a fair point you make. Nevertheless, I think what I've set in a framework is valid.

Take issue X. It doesn't matter what it is. Your beliefs about it fall somewhere in this spectrum:

I dont care .................................................. ..................... Life or death
Now, multiply that by however many issues are encompassed in the whole "he doesn't care enough" judgment.

What she's described about him is that as far as she can tell, nothing approaches "Life or Death" for him. He's a live-and-let-live sort of guy, even on her life and death issues. She, on the other hand, has many things to think about that skew closer to "Life or Death".

Read carefully:
Originally Posted by ConfusedAF
This makes me question the kind of person he is and his values.
I didn't say that lana. She did. That statement alone tells the tale. We know what she meant: He's one of THEM. I didn't know before, but he's one of THEM. OMG! What do I do now?

There's another post around here somewhere by Gaeta, where her pal euthanized her dog, and Gaeta is convinced that she should have spent the money to save the dog instead of spending 4 times more to get another dog. So, she's done with this friend. It's pretty much the same thing. What they both seem to lack, however, is the courage of their convictions. They're coming here for support, I think because somewhere deep down inside, they know that this is not the most noble of behaviors. If they had no doubts about their actions, they'd brag about these decisions, not question them. These doubts come from within, and for good reason. They are both judging the worth of other human beings that they know not to be evil. That's a little over the top, and somewhere inside, they know it, and it doesn't make them feel good about themselves. So they come here looking for moral support, for people to tell them they're doing the right thing, because they need more people to be on their side to balance out the bad they feel about themselves. A crowd with them will make them feel correct. A crowd against them would make them think twice.

Ironically, CAF wants the same thing from her man. Approval and agreement. She wants him to tell her she's thinking the right thing on those other issues. He's not meeting her need. Make no mistake about it. This is a need on her part, and he is not delivering.

That's really all I'm trying to point out.

What's the right decision? I don't know. But I know this: To love someone is to accept them for who they are, warts and all, and to love them anyway. She can't, whether she knows it or not. It all goes back to her value system. He doesn't qualify. It's probably hard to tell yourself that truth.

To your other point, do I think you guys are a little loony left? Sure I do! But I don't mind, that's what makes you who you are. Good for you! And, it's beside the point. She could be a John Birch Society conservative and I'd think the same thing. It's not right or left for me. It's right or wrong, but she has every right to be wrong in my eyes, and I'm only chiming in because she asked for opinions. I'm hoping I can help open her eyes.

If she had asked for only the viewpoints of those who agree, I'd have shut up and moved on.

Anyway, I hope you're doing well out there. I still credit you with my favorite post ever! Nobody has even come close.
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