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Marriage is completely unecessary


strongnrelaxed

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strongnrelaxed

Marriage is an institution that is no longer necessary. It is doing more harm than good to millions of good people across the world every year. Why do we still have it?

 

I suspect it has to do with lawyers. Why, for example, must one get a "Marriage license" before getting married in a church. Think about that for a minute. Why would the church be ok with the State inserting itself into a religious ceremony? Do they do this for any of the other sacraments? No.

 

Marriage is completely redundant. You can have children, jointly own property, wear rings, change your name, live together, go on vacation. You can do EVERYTHING a married couple does.There are contracts for all of that stuff and do you really need contracts? If so then you should not be together in the first place (Side note: Men - ALWAYS insist on contracts. No exceptions)

 

The issue that has come up before is health insurance. So that is the big justification for marriage. Health insurance: Really? ....Really?!

 

Marriage is a cute romantic notion of a bygone era. Customs change. This is one that needs to go.

 

What do you think?

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If one wishes to have the legal rights which marriage confers without marrying, that's resolvable. Think of it as a menu.

 

Do you want your partner to inherit? Trust/will

 

Do you want your partner to have the power to manage your affairs if incapacitated? Powers of attorney

 

Do you want your partner to make your health care decisions? DPOA and directives for health care

 

Do you want to share any assets with your partner? Partnership agreement/trust/tenancy of the commons, etc, etc.

 

That's a few of the big ones. They get more complex and costly as one ages.

 

I also noted, as trustee, that marital benefits of being the surviving spouse afforded marked amounts of income and health care benefits not otherwise applicable to an unmarried partner. YMMV on that, as policies are evolving in that area.

 

I think it's healthy to crunch the numbers and make an informed decision. On the surface, it may seem to be 'safer' to 'shack up' from a monetary perspective, but each person's goals and desires are different. For some, that works. For others, not. For others, something in between 'shacking up' and 'marriage', meaning co-habitation with varying degrees of partnership agreements. Lots of choices.

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I remember going to the courthouse in Honolulu to get our marriage license. Cost 25 bucks I think. Spent another 150 for a nice military chaplain to marry us at the beach house we were renting for a little family reunion for my exW. I think the whole 'wedding' cost under 1K, flowers and photography included.

 

It cost me nearly 5K in legal fees to make a simple trustee change which required a court appearance in front of a judge. At that time I got some estimates on legal fees to establish specific contracts, like POA's, a inter-vivos trust, land trust, will, etc. Well, let's just say I know how much it costs to do it legally and properly.

 

I mention money because it is tangible. There are a myriad of intangibles which come with marriage which may or may not be important to the partners, like social standing, religious affiliation, the 'feel' of being married, etc. I alluded to one in the prior post when, as an example, one's partner is in ICU comatose on a ventilator, one, as a spouse, has direct privileges and rights to advocate for them not afforded to an unknown third party without operation of law. It 'feels' different. Many other examples attend.

 

I went through some tough times during my M and will be recovering from the D for a number of years to come. That hasn't soured my opinion of marriage. Marriage is an agreement; an ostensibly loving contract. It's as good and as healthy as the people making their mark on it. It's completely voluntary. It's one choice of many.

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Do you really want to be boyfriend/girlfriend forever? Yes, I think marriage can sometimes be overrated. I don't like being treated like I no longer can go out with friends and have a good time as an individual or be my own person. Or treated like I'm suddenly preparing for children. From experience, marriage has made things less complicated and I enjoy the feeling of commitment of being more than just the girlfriend. A lot of times, families don't consider an unmarried couple as equal...sad but true. And yes, being married has DEFINITELY helped my H and I regarding health insurance in a few circumstances. My job doesn't offer benefits and he recently got a job with benefits that requires you to be married. I also had a job a few years back when he didn't have a job that provided us health benefits...again requiring us to be married. Health insurance is expensive to pay out of pocket.

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It may be completely unnecessary, but I love it!

 

It certainly doesn't "need to go." That's just lame. Simply don't partake any further, yourself.

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Marriage is an institution that is no longer necessary.

 

 

 

I agree thats why I plan to never get married. I know I am just as committed to my boyfriend as any wife is to her husband. To me its just a piece of paper.

 

I can however understand why some people would want to get married. There is something romantic and special about pledging to love each other "until death do us part"....(not that alot of people actually follow that)

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IMO, it's cheaper to get married than it is to file all of the paperwork/hire an attorney for MOST (but not all) of the same benefits. Social Security, pensions and other related survivor benefits are given to married couples. My fiancee works at a university - a fairly progressive one at that - and the one benefit we got?

 

I can go to counseling sessions up to 6 times per year as his domestic partner for free. WOO-HOO. Meanwhile, once I marry him, I get a ton of benefits...including going back to school almost for free.

 

In case others didn't know, universities tend to be very big on same-sex/domestic partner benefits. So, I'm kind of getting ripped off. :D

 

The reasons why people marry are completely individual. I really DON'T think there's anything wrong with marrying just for money - as long as people are upfront about it. I don't think there's anything wrong with marrying JUST for love, either. Usually, it's a mix of reasons for people.

 

Social standing is VERY powerful. I'm not in the Bible belt, but even where I live, there's a strong religious influence. We were not treated particularly well before our engagement: we were 'living in sin' to most people (including his parents).

 

After the engagement, suddenly I'm my in-law's 'daughter,' they're thrilled about grandkids, OH, the wedding! and on and on. The sad thing is, a lot of people are like my in-laws, and that can have a dramatic impact on a relationship. Note that I NEVER said this is the reason why we chose to marry. I'm simply talking about one of the many scenarios I experienced, and which I know is a pressure and sometimes a reason that others get married.

 

Marriage isn't for everyone. And it's not for everyone who goes ahead and gets married. Some people are better off alone, or better off practicing serial monogamy, or better off being with whoever, whenever. But I can't make that decision for everybody. Marriage still offers some pertinent benefits. More and more, these benefits are being offered to non-marital partners, which I think is great. But to entirely dismiss marriage then as useless is a bit of a stretch, I think.

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strongnrelaxed
What do I think? I just want to know who appointed YOU judge and jury? I've just read about 5 different threads here and you were in ALL of them, spouting the same anti-marriage drivel post after post after post.

 

Have you made it your mission to try to convince everyone that YOUR opinion is the only one that matters? If you spent even half as much time on an anti-drug or anti-smoking board typing your message over and over and over, it might actually be productive.

 

And that's what I think.

 

I am indeed posting anti-marriage messages. Because someone needs to say it. I am no judge, no jury, and my opinion is most certainly NOT the only one that matters. YOU said that, not me. In fact my opinion is in the minority.

 

I am happy when I receive responses like yours. Because young men read these posts and they see how people like you react to my posts. Marriage is a horrible horrible contract for men these days. It is a nightmare and very close to slavery.

 

Yes, I said it. Marriage is like slavery for men. Don't believe me? Check your state's divorce laws and get back to me.

 

It is just a raw deal. And men fall for it millions of times a year because they "fall in love" with women. And so many of those women have other intentions and they are not what I would consider "love".

 

The secret it out ladies. More and more men understand how wrong this has all become. Call us names, say we're gay for not getting married. Or we have commitment issues, or we are evil or part of some patriarchy. It is irrelevant to us. We are on to the insanity and we are having no more of it.

 

If you are in support of such an atrocity, go ahead and say so. My purpose is not to please you. In fact, I enjoy giving people like you the opportunity to our yourselves for the vicious creatures you are. This is much more effective than me just sitting here "spouting drivel"

 

Thanks for the assist!

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strongnrelaxed

 

Marriage still offers some pertinent benefits...But to entirely dismiss marriage then as useless is a bit of a stretch, I think.

 

Marriage gives virtually no benefits to men whatsoever. It is a very bad contract for men. The funny thing is that the terms of the contract are clandestine until the divorce. THEN you find out the terms of the contract.

 

Would you sign a business contract like that?

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Yes, I said it. Marriage is like slavery for men. Don't believe me? Check your state's divorce laws and get back to me.

 

I don't believe you because marriage is NOT like slavery to men, unless the man has colluded in participating in a master / slave type of a relationship. If he has, then he shouldn't complain. Anyway, the personal experience of a slavish type certainly can't be properly extrapolated to apply to all married men everywhere. Like, my husband, for example. A happily married man and the master of his domain. :love:

 

 

The secret it out ladies. More and more men understand how wrong this has all become. Call us names, say we're gay for not getting married. Or we have commitment issues, or we are evil or part of some patriarchy. It is irrelevant to us. We are on to the insanity and we are having no more of it.

 

If you are in support of such an atrocity, go ahead and say so. My purpose is not to please you. In fact, I enjoy giving people like you the opportunity to our yourselves for the vicious creatures you are. This is much more effective than me just sitting here "spouting drivel"

 

Thanks for the assist!

 

Wow. What an odd rant. "The secret is out" ??? :laugh: What exactly is the secret?

 

I hope you feel better now that you've got that off of your chest.

 

Who is this "us" and "we" that you speak of, though? Are you purporting to speak for all men, or even a large group of men? I hope not. I know lots of men, married and not - none of them would be pleased to have you as their spokesperson and you'd be ousted post haste!

 

So don't get married. I'm not going to call you gay, evil, or anything at all. I think you have made it clear that you would be an awful husband with such an attitude, and I'm thankful that no woman is going to have to find out about that after getting yoked for life with you.

 

So get on with enjoying your bachelor life, and more power to you for being true to yourself. But your conspiracy theories? Laughable.

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strongnrelaxed
I don't believe you because marriage is NOT like slavery to men, unless the man has colluded in participating in a master / slave type of a relationship. If he has, then he shouldn't complain. Anyway, the personal experience of a slavish type certainly can't be properly extrapolated to apply to all married men everywhere. Like, my husband, for example. A happily married man and the master of his domain. :love:

 

 

Wow. What an odd rant. "The secret is out" ??? :laugh: What exactly is the secret?

 

I hope you feel better now that you've got that off of your chest.

 

Who is this "us" and "we" that you speak of, though? Are you purporting to speak for all men, or even a large group of men? I hope not. I know lots of men, married and not - none of them would be pleased to have you as their spokesperson and you'd be ousted post haste!

 

So don't get married. I'm not going to call you gay, evil, or anything at all. I think you have made it clear that you would be an awful husband with such an attitude, and I'm thankful that no woman is going to have to find out about that after getting yoked for life with you.

 

So get on with enjoying your bachelor life, and more power to you for being true to yourself. But your conspiracy theories? Laughable.

 

Thanks!

 

Again, your comments about me being an "awful husband" without knowing me says more about you than it does me, I think.

 

Young men who read this are getting a world class education about how things really are. If a man speaks out about these things, he gets the sort of response you provided. That is what I mean when I say the secret it out.

 

Men get royally screwed in marriage. It is a very very bad thing when you separate out the emotions. And that is another thing that men are waking up to - the harsh realities of modern marriage and divorce are bizarre to me. Pointing this out elicits attacks against ME! That is too funny. Divorce laws are screwed up and I am an awful husband for pointing this out.

 

Well done. This is exactly what young men need to see.

 

There are other forums out there with thousands of men saying the same thing I am here - so have at it. This is not for you it is for young men who are reading it.

 

The myth of marriage is fading away. Finally.

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I don't agree with the OP and I am glad I am married but when you think about it there is nothing that you get from marriage that you can't get from shacking up. At this point it is strictly symbolic. There is no actual need for it.

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I don't agree with the OP and I am glad I am married but when you think about it there is nothing that you get from marriage that you can't get from shacking up. At this point it is strictly symbolic. There is no actual need for it.

 

Technically there are a few needs. Carhill pointed them out in this thread already.

 

Of course that depends on what you want.

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strongnrelaxed
I remember going to the courthouse in Honolulu to get our marriage license. Cost 25 bucks I think. Spent another 150 for a nice military chaplain to marry us at the beach house we were renting for a little family reunion for my exW. I think the whole 'wedding' cost under 1K, flowers and photography included.

 

It cost me nearly 5K in legal fees to make a simple trustee change which required a court appearance in front of a judge. At that time I got some estimates on legal fees to establish specific contracts, like POA's, a inter-vivos trust, land trust, will, etc. Well, let's just say I know how much it costs to do it legally and properly.

 

I mention money because it is tangible. There are a myriad of intangibles which come with marriage which may or may not be important to the partners, like social standing, religious affiliation, the 'feel' of being married, etc. I alluded to one in the prior post when, as an example, one's partner is in ICU comatose on a ventilator, one, as a spouse, has direct privileges and rights to advocate for them not afforded to an unknown third party without operation of law. It 'feels' different. Many other examples attend.

 

I went through some tough times during my M and will be recovering from the D for a number of years to come. That hasn't soured my opinion of marriage. Marriage is an agreement; an ostensibly loving contract. It's as good and as healthy as the people making their mark on it. It's completely voluntary. It's one choice of many.

 

I hear you carhill. I could not possibly disagree with you more about marriage being a "loving contract" I can't even get my head around those two words in the same sentence. When I think of love the last thing that comes to mind is a contract.

 

Do you see how that works? Do you see how you have been duped into believing that love and contracts go together. Someone recently said to me "love with your heart, but use your brain for everything else"

 

Marriage as it currently stands in America, is a lose lose proposition. Everyone loses their basic freedoms and dignity. If you decide that marriage is NOT for you, then you lose a hell of a lot more than your dignity. I am sure you are all to familiar with this given your circumstances.

 

Listen, despite what I say about marriage, I am actually very romantic. I just think that contracts, documents, rings, money, wedding cakes, and all that jazz takes away from the beauty of what should be a simple, caring and beautiful connection between two people.

 

For some reason, we have codified marriage, taxed it, corrupted it, poisoned it, and turned it into some other thing that does not resemble the vision of marriage I was raised to expect.

 

That was my childhood naivete. I was wrong and I grew up. This happens to us sometimes and I get that. But the extent to how far my romantic vision of marriage was from the reality is drastic to say the least.

 

So here I am on these boards posting as much of the truth as I can so that at least one or two young men will read it and wise up.

 

No man should ever acquiesce to such a ridiculous deal. it is just insane for any man to agree to this crap any more.

 

We know better now.

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Technically there are a few needs. Carhill pointed them out in this thread already.

 

Of course that depends on what you want.

 

I agree but make it okay to give power of attorney to anybody you want and it would eliminate the need for it. I just think marriage is quickly becoming an obsolete institution. It sure as hell does not promote stability and commitment anymore.

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Do you see how that works? Do you see how you have been duped into believing that love and contracts go together. Someone recently said to me "love with your heart, but use your brain for everything else"<snip>
Then follow your path. That's a choice allowed by the freedom of being a living organism. I personally feel it's a valid choice and path. That's the difference between us, essentially. There's really no room in your world for the both of us, so there you go. Good luck.
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strongnrelaxed
Then follow your path. That's a choice allowed by the freedom of being a living organism. I personally feel it's a valid choice and path. That's the difference between us, essentially. There's really no room in your world for the both of us, so there you go. Good luck.

 

That is not a fair assessment. I do understand that people get married for all sorts of reasons. I married for emotional reasons. I am getting divorced and all of the emotion suddenly seems embarrassingly childish and naive. I don't even know how to face my young sons now and explain to them how I allowed my self to actively pursue such an arrangement.

 

I just posted a short "story" in this section. Perhaps that will shed more light on it when presented in a different way.

 

I still have hope for relationships. I just think that marriage poisons the whole thing. I am an old school man in this way - when I shake your hand, I f-ing mean what I am saying. Contracts are necessary, but that changes the nature of the trust in my view.

 

This is America.

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Thanks!

 

Again, your comments about me being an "awful husband" without knowing me says more about you than it does me, I think.

 

If you could read what you posted objectively, I think you would have to agree that a man who spewed such bile against marriage would certainly make an "awful husband" and should, by all means, avoid being one ever again.

 

Young men who read this are getting a world class education about how things really are. If a man speaks out about these things, he gets the sort of response you provided. That is what I mean when I say the secret it out.

 

The response I provided about my happy marriage, my not slavish husband, and how you don't speak for very many men even though you are posturing as if you do? Is that the "secret"?

 

Speak out about YOUR experience and YOUR feelings and I will respect that. Your stance of "teaching us all a lesson" produces scoffing.

 

Do you see how that works? Do you see how you have been duped into believing that love and contracts go together.

 

What makes you believe that Carhill has been duped? I'm sure he's fine with it, but can't you see how out of line you are with that? He is a grown man, who has assimilated his own experiences and what he's learned in life. I'm quite sure he's capable of forming and expressing his own views about marriage without having you there to tell him like it "really is."

 

It would be insulting, if it weren't so … weak.

 

Well done. This is exactly what young men need to see.
Why do young men need to see a hurt and bitter older man lashing out? I think they might turn away in embarrassment.

 

The myth of marriage is fading away. Finally.

 

What I really cannot fathom is why a person such as yourself, who has had a change of heart and maybe feels they've had some revelations, would believe that this constitutes an absolute reality that pertains to all other people.

 

Your marriage failed and you're hurt. I understand that. I was terribly hurt by the demise of my first marriage. That doesn't mean that everybody has to now believe that marriage is "bad." It's "good" for me. AND for my husband. Really. And we're not the only ones.

 

Live by your own beliefs. Marriage is carrying on. There are happily married people, there are miserable marriages, there are equitable divorces, and there are men AND women getting screwed over in divorces. But no matter how much you wail and moan, marriage is still happening.

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This is America.

 

Actually, this is LoveShack, and we are a community comprised of people from many parts of the physical planet Earth.

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strongnrelaxed
If you could read what you posted objectively, I think you would have to agree that a man who spewed such bile against marriage would certainly make an "awful husband" and should, by all means, avoid being one ever again.

 

Perhaps my delivery is strident. Perhaps it comes across as arrogant or absolute. But there is no amount of emotion, shaming language, subtle name calling or any other behavior that will change the reality of the situation.

 

I am not surprised that a woman would find this notion scary. I am also not surprised that you are attacking me for delivering this message. You can say what you wish about me and make all sorts of incorrect assumptions. I would expect nothing more or less from you.

 

But reality exists out there. There are people who have an experience that is very different from yours. I think you may be used to dealing with men who run away scared when you call them a few names.

 

Perhaps you too have been influenced by the television images of men as simpletons. Overweight oafs who are clueless but for the saving grace of their awe inspiring sexy wives. This image is far from the truth. You will not understand this because you are not on the receiving end of it.

 

Again, my comments to you are not for you. They are to let young men know that they should confront this sort of bullying crap at every turn. However subtle it is. That crap works in the playground and on weak men, sister, but you ain't in a playground and I am not your husband.

 

Squawk all you like. My point stands unchallenged. Modern marriage is a miserable contract for men and an awesome sweetheart deal for women.

 

This made sense in the not too distant past when men would cut and run. When financial or other brutal realities made marriage a necessity for both parties. Now it is a method of enslaving good men.

 

Any many who enters into marriage knowing this, deserves what he gets.

 

What I find interesting is that women marry men knowing that their man is entering into such a flawed deal. How can you trust your man to protect you from bad business deals after being a sucker enough to marry you?

 

Think about that! I am not trying to be a jerk here. Men need to wise up for heaven's sake.

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strongnrelaxed
Actually, this is LoveShack, and we are a community comprised of people from many parts of the physical planet Earth.

 

What I meant to say is that this is where we are in modern America today.

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