I'm not controlling, just hurt.

[catclawtub]

I love my fiance. Very much.

 

I have had a problem with his ex since we first started dating. We've been together since late July of 2007 and we will be getting married in May of this year. (Next month! Jeez!) I would rather not get into all of the small problems we have had over her. Only what I feel hurts me most.

 

He has moved out of his apartment into mine and has had to go through his things. I have asked him to not keep photographs of her. I want to make new memories with him. I have returned the favor by not keeping photographs of my late ex. I feel it is my was of saying that I have let go and do not need evidence of the experiences I have had.

 

He doesn't seem to want to let go of them and claims he wants to keep them to know who he was. He has plenty of pictures of himself without her. Why aren't those enough? It hurts my feelings that he places so much importance on old pictures of his ex and not enough on creating new experiences with me. Why does it to be this huge cloud that hangs over my head? I also feel insecure and inadequate when I think of how important this still is to him.

 

What should I do? I have explained most of how I feel about it, but he claims that I am being controlling. I just want him to "show" me how much he cares about my feelings. It isn't a challenge for power at all...

[norajane]

It hurts my feelings that he places so much importance on old pictures of his ex

 

and not enough on creating new experiences with me

 

First, of all, those are two separate things, and they are not mutually exclusive. Meaning, he can treasure his past, while ALSO creating new memories with you in the future. Alternately, he could throw out every picture he has, and he might still not create enough new experiences with you.

 

So, you have to separate those things and decide what your issue is. Is it that he is holding on to his memories through the pictures? Or is the issue that he is not creating new experiences and memories with you?

 

Second, some people are collectors/keepers/savers and some are not. Your bf is clearly someone who saves. I have pics of myself with my exes, mementos from high school and college and little trinkets and gifts bf's have given me over the years. I don't save them because I feel something for those people that would get in the way of a current relationship. I save them because they are a part of MY past, and I don't see the need to wipe out my past or my memories just because I'm in a new relationship.

 

As an example, on all my travels, I pick up a little rock from the beach as a memento of the trip. And I call them my 'lucky rock from Santorini" or my "lucky rock from Maui" or whatever. And I have one of those little rocks in all my handbags, you know, for good luck. I'm not about to get rid of any of them simply because I went to Maui with Joe on vacation, and to Santorini with Tim, and now I'm dating Steve. Those are part of my life, my history, and they are meaningful to me completely outside the person I was with. Nor will I ever get rid of any of the photos from those vacation trips regardless of how many of them show my exes.

 

So, if your bf is like that, nothing you say is going to make him want to erase his past like that. He might pack the pictures up and put them in a box in the basement, but to throw them out would seem wrong to him.

 

And it has nothing to do with how he feels about you.

 

So focus on the new experiences with him and don't worry about his photos of his exes unless he has them framed and on the mantle over the fireplace.

[BareGoddess]

I agree with NJ 100%. I'm also a saver and if my H would have asked me to throw out pics I have just because they had an ex in them, I'd most certainly would have had a problem with that.

 

Also, I caution you to watch it with the insecure behavior. You can really push a person away with that jealousy. I'm serious. I've been on the other end of it so I know what it feels like. It gets to where you want to get away from the smothering nature of that person. And I"m not saying that you're smothering or that that will happen to you and your fiance' but I'm just mentioning it in case you recognize this in your own behavior.

[catclawtub]

I am a jealous person by nature. It tends to be a trait of the women in my family. My younger sister often relates to how I feel about certain situations. I have tried to act as though I do not care, but that does not result in my feeling any better. It is an issue I have often tried to come to terms with, but simply cannot.

 

I think that he has realized why the photographs bother me so much. He understands why I bring them up as a problem, because I see them as having potential for distressing the marriage. It's only next month and I want to bond with him, rather than have issues with the past. I just don't want her as part of what our marriage will mean.

 

 

*Also, I know that he has pornographic images of himself and her on the internet. Apparently, the images cannot be deleted unless he becomes a member. He is not willing to pay to remove them, but I feel that it should be done out of respect. I certainly would not want my ex to have such private images of me for all the world to see if we were not together. (I wouldn't have that type of thing of me on the internet in the first place, but that's just me.) Is it reasonable to ask this of him?

[norajane]

I am a jealous person by nature. It tends to be a trait of the women in my family. My younger sister often relates to how I feel about certain situations. I have tried to act as though I do not care, but that does not result in my feeling any better. It is an issue I have often tried to come to terms with, but simply cannot.

 

I think that he has realized why the photographs bother me so much. He understands why I bring them up as a problem, because I see them as having potential for distressing the marriage. It's only next month and I want to bond with him, rather than have issues with the past. I just don't want her as part of what our marriage will mean.

 

You may have to try harder to come to terms with it, because unless those pictures are out in the open and he's looking at them all the time, they are part of his past and mean nothing to your present and future UNLESS YOU make it a problem. Pictures in box don't mean anything except that he is saving his mementos, like he saves old comic books and high school football trophies.

 

 

*Also, I know that he has pornographic images of himself and her on the internet. Apparently, the images cannot be deleted unless he becomes a member. He is not willing to pay to remove them, but I feel that it should be done out of respect. I certainly would not want my ex to have such private images of me for all the world to see if we were not together. (I wouldn't have that type of thing of me on the internet in the first place, but that's just me.) Is it reasonable to ask this of him?

THIS, is much more problematic, but easily solved. You can offer to pay for the membership so he can delete the porn pictures. I can't imagine why she wouldn't have asked him to do so, unless she doesn't know those pics are even out there because he put them up without telling her.

 

How well do you know this guy? You've been dating less than a year and are getting married next month. Are you sure you know his character? Because just as much as you are saying YOU would never put those kinds of pics out on the internet, HE clearly is the kind of guy who would and did.

[catclawtub]

THIS, is much more problematic, but easily solved. You can offer to pay for the membership so he can delete the porn pictures. I can't imagine why she wouldn't have asked him to do so, unless she doesn't know those pics are even out there because he put them up without telling her.

 

How well do you know this guy? You've been dating less than a year and are getting married next month. Are you sure you know his character? Because just as much as you are saying YOU would never put those kinds of pics out on the internet, HE clearly is the kind of guy who would and did.

 

I would rather not pay for the membership. I feel that it is his responsibility to take care of. Paying for something like that is not in my nature. She is a much different person than I am. She is experimental and open, okay with having multiple partners, etc. He said the images were put up because it was something she was into and he felt he wanted to try it as well. It was two years ago, so it is not as if this was current. She doesn't care who sees graphic images of her. It might also be that she doesn't believe something like that can come back to haunt her. She is two years younger than me, much earlier in college. At that age sometimes you think you're invincible. He knows I have no interest in sharing private sexual details with the world, and obviously it is not a problem.

 

We know each other well enough. It's almost been a year now that we have been together. He doesn't keep secrets from me and I don't keep secrets from him. We both came out of 3 year previous engagements and we know better and how to communicate. We're also going to premarital counseling sessions up until the marriage and maybe after.

 

Thanks for your insight, I really appreciate it. Settles my mind a bit.

[norajane]

I would rather not pay for the membership. I feel that it is his responsibility to take care of. Paying for something like that is not in my nature.

 

I guess you have to decide what's more important to you. Getting the pictures of him off the internet, or standing on principle regarding not paying for the membership to do so.

 

It clearly is also not in his nature to pay for getting the pictures off the internet, so if you're really concerned about it, it's going to be up to you to make it happen.

[catclawtub]

It just feels gross to me to have to pay for something in that nature. I am not morally accepting of it.

[blackbird]

To share something similar. My fiance is a musician, mainly of the electronic sort. He has samples he recorded of a girl that he had sex with a few times a few years back, of her saying stuff and moaning while they were having sex. They feature prominently in one of his older songs, and he was re-using the samples in a newer song a few months ago. I don't mind the samples in the old song, but sitting at home listening to him in the other room working on music with the sound of this girl having sex with him looping over and over again irritated me for various reasons. If I was in a certain mood it could have been sexy, but I was just trying to get some work done.

 

I didn't tell him to stop using it, but he did take it out that night because it was clearly putting me in a bad mood, after we talked about it. In his mind I was being irrational because to him, it's just another sound in his sample library, it's not something he has an emotional attachment to, and he's not thinking about the girl when he hears the samples. He just likes the way they sound. I totally believe him on this, but I still was not comfortable listening to those sounds at that time, for various reasons, mostly emotional/irrational. I let him know this, but also let him know that I did feel that my reaction was emotional/irrational, and that I did not feel like he was under an obligation to remove them. Either way, he chose to respect that I didn't want to hear those sounds and removed them.

 

The difference here is that it doesn't bother me one whit that he had the samples still in his library, or that they were in his older song. It bothered me when I had to listen to it over and over again because he was working on the song. My fiance also has some pictures of his exes. As long as he's not framing them and putting them up on the walls, or keeping them in his wallet, or making elaborate shrines to them, I don't care.

 

He also owns at least one video of him having sex with an ex-gf. I've never asked him to get rid of it either, nor do I feel the need to. I know he has it, but I also know he's not secretly watching it and jerking off to it or anything. As long as it's not in my face, and not taking up his mental space, it's not a big deal to me. If it started to bother me that he kept it, though, I know he would get rid of it -- but then he would insist on talking about why it suddenly bothered me.

 

That the mere act of his keeping these old pictures bothers you does sound like insecurity to me. By targeting that as the problem you're glossing over the real one. You think that your fiance might still harbour feelings for his ex. Or that he's not 100% committed to your relationship. Or that you don't fulfill his needs. Etc. If you didn't have that fear, these photographs wouldn't throw you in the way that they have. I don't know your fiance, so I don't know if that's an irrational fear on your part, or a real one. Either way, you should think about that and talk about that with him, not focus on the pictures.

 

I agree with you on the pictures on the internet; it's distasteful to leave those up. It seems pretty insensitive of him to refuse to remove them and blame it on not having the money to do so. It makes me think of at least two distinct possibilities. First, that he really does harbour some sort of attachment to his ex and doesn't want to get rid of reminders of her. Second, that he feels so little attachment to his ex that when you freak out/get hurt about things like this, it weirds him out and puts him on the defensive, like you're accusing him of/blaming him for something he hasn't done. Then he just gets stubborn, like if he were to get rid of the photos, he'd be validating your worries and admitting to having done something wrong. I suspect the latter, or some version thereof, is much more likely, but I do not know your fiance. I suggest talking to him in a non-accusatory manner and trying to share your feelings in a way that doesn't make him feel like you're telling him he's doing something wrong, that he doesn't love you enough, etc.

 

Looking back over this message, I feel that I've come across as overly chastising. I get irrationally insecure/jealous myself, and that's why I wanted to respond to your message. There are probably things I get insecure about that wouldn't make youblink an eye. At any rate, I feel it's best to try to work through these things at the root instead of just getting rid of the triggers. Best of luck.

[blackbird]

On second thought, reading over the thread again, I am going to say something that I mean to sound chastising.

 

You may not think you're controlling, but I think you may, at times, have more of a need to be 'right' and to be told your way of looking at things is the correct one, than you have a need to share and come to an understanding with your partner. You feel something negative from the pictures, so you need your fiance to agree with you that it's bad to keep them and if he doesn't, you assert that it's because he doesn't love you enough. That's what it sounds like. Having to be the one that's "right" IS being controlling. It's also manipulative. You're trying to change his behavior by making him feel like he is inadequate in some way instead of trying to look deeper at the real issues.

 

I do the same thing sometimes so I can recognize it when I see it. It's not healthy.

[catclawtub]

On second thought, reading over the thread again, I am going to say something that I mean to sound chastising.

 

You may not think you're controlling, but I think you may, at times, have more of a need to be 'right' and to be told your way of looking at things is the correct one, than you have a need to share and come to an understanding with your partner. You feel something negative from the pictures, so you need your fiance to agree with you that it's bad to keep them and if he doesn't, you assert that it's because he doesn't love you enough. That's what it sounds like. Having to be the one that's "right" IS being controlling. It's also manipulative. You're trying to change his behavior by making him feel like he is inadequate in some way instead of trying to look deeper at the real issues.

 

I do the same thing sometimes so I can recognize it when I see it. It's not healthy.

 

Occasionally, he lets me be right about something. Most of the time I give up on arguments and let him be right. What I think bothers me most is just that I don't think he understands how the pictures make me feel. He just doesn't seem to 'get it', you know? I'm looking past the pictures now, even though I'd prefer them gone. My main concern is the photographs online. I want those gone for sure. It makes me sick to my stomach. I know he loves me and I will have to focus on that sometimes. I just get scared and lash out. I don't want her placed on a pedestal, because that's how it feels when I think about him keeping photographs. Sort of 'the one that go away' sort of deal.

[blackbird]

Occasionally, he lets me be right about something. Most of the time I give up on arguments and let him be right. What I think bothers me most is just that I don't think he understands how the pictures make me feel. He just doesn't seem to 'get it', you know? I'm looking past the pictures now, even though I'd prefer them gone. My main concern is the photographs online. I want those gone for sure. It makes me sick to my stomach. I know he loves me and I will have to focus on that sometimes. I just get scared and lash out. I don't want her placed on a pedestal, because that's how it feels when I think about him keeping photographs. Sort of 'the one that go away' sort of deal.

 

Here's a question for you: is your fiance still in contact with this ex? Do they ever hang out? Talk online? Has he ever given you any other reason to feel insecure other than these photographs?

 

If not, I suspect he's just being bullish about removing those online photographs because it's something he doesn't care about, and hey, maybe he wants YOU to feel what HE feels too. Why does it have to be about him feeling what you feel, and not the other way around? (That said, I still think it'd be respectful of him to remove the online photos, and it sucks that he's being so dismissive about it. That would be hurtful to me as well.)

 

Sounds like this has become an 'issue' and an 'argument' rather than a discussion, where the way one of you feels must be 'right' and the other party is in the 'wrong' and must give in. As my fiance often says to me when we're headed down this road (and I fully agree with), what's important is communicating, not being right or wrong.

 

As much as you want him to understand your feelings, you need to strive to understand his as well, and to show him how you are trying to do so instead of pointing your finger at him as the one who is being inconsiderate and uncaring. For all I know of the situation (not very much) maybe he is being inconsiderate and uncaring, but I do know that going in with that assumption when there are other possibilities to consider rarely helps.

 

My thoughts on this change if he's still in regular contact with the ex.

[catclawtub]

Here's a question for you: is your fiance still in contact with this ex? Do they ever hang out? Talk online? Has he ever given you any other reason to feel insecure other than these photographs?

 

If not, I suspect he's just being bullish about removing those online photographs because it's something he doesn't care about, and hey, maybe he wants YOU to feel what HE feels too. Why does it have to be about him feeling what you feel, and not the other way around? (That said, I still think it'd be respectful of him to remove the online photos, and it sucks that he's being so dismissive about it. That would be hurtful to me as well.)

 

Sounds like this has become an 'issue' and an 'argument' rather than a discussion, where the way one of you feels must be 'right' and the other party is in the 'wrong' and must give in. As my fiance often says to me when we're headed down this road (and I fully agree with), what's important is communicating, not being right or wrong.

 

As much as you want him to understand your feelings, you need to strive to understand his as well, and to show him how you are trying to do so instead of pointing your finger at him as the one who is being inconsiderate and uncaring. For all I know of the situation (not very much) maybe he is being inconsiderate and uncaring, but I do know that going in with that assumption when there are other possibilities to consider rarely helps.

 

My thoughts on this change if he's still in regular contact with the ex.

 

He only runs into her on occasion on campus. They're at the same university, while I attend another university close by. They used to speak to each other more frequently over the phone, but it became uncomfortable for both of us because often times we would be together. It just makes things awkward. She cheated on him and dumped him after 3 years, and until I became engaged to him, I believe she viewed him as a safety net if things with her current boyfriend didn't work out. Her current boyfriend is a bit of a mysoginist and won't let her do things. She makes me insecure because I was aware that she wanted to get back together with my fiance up until our engagement. She had tried pretty hard in the beginning of our relationship and that was tough on me. I'm still paranoid.

 

I agree with the right and wrong thing too. I know completely that there is no right and wrong when there is an argument. When you're emotional, being rational isn't a huge concern.

 

He deleted the pictures last night, although things are on edge at the moment. I think we'll have to have a heart-to-heart this evening. We have a counseling session tomorrow too, so I'm sure it'll come up. Emotional rollercoaster, here I come...!