Male / Female Friend complications

[The Prisoner]

We’ve had a platonic relationship for few years now. A second attempt after the first attempt ended in a parting after I wanted to become more than friends but that only after I had relocated some 200 miles away from her (on a change of job). A mistake! It ended in a row and we didn’t speak for some years. She said she didn’t have feelings for me, (although I didn’t really believe that then) but further than that would not discuss it, wouldn’t take my calls and broke off all contact.

 

We’ve been fortunate enough to overcome this now (many years later) and we are now very close again and we have great fun together. She is in an existing relationship. I do still have feelings for her but have decided that I will never act on them because the loss of the friendship a second time would be far too much for me to take.

 

So platonic friends with no complications is what we have both agreed and that’s fine by me.

 

Recently though when asking her advice about my current relationship and possible break-up and about a potential new girlfriend, I picked up some serious signs of jealousy. Nothing overt but some fairly clear signals that reference to the potential new girlfriend was upsetting her. Things like her referring to “whatever her name is” said with a definite edge to her voice, a keenness on her part to change the subject and stop discussing it etc. Her advice was to stay in the current relationship until I found someone better and that’s what she was going to do!!!

 

To alleviate any fears she might have about a cooling of the friendship on my change of relationship, and to make sure that she knew she was appreciated, I sent her a card thanking her for being such a good friend to me and for her advice and support. I have said (repeatedly) that I would do nothing to jeopardise our friendship and I have told her that I care for her (meaning as a friend, but maybe I should have made that clearer). She has not brought up this other person since and has not asked how things have turned out. Neither have I.

 

My question that I need help on is where that leaves us now! Do you think that the expression of jealousy was some expression of any feelings she has for me? I just cannot take the initiative here and tell her how I feel in the event she blows up again and the friendship is ruined a second (and permanent) time. I know she can be moderately devious and manipulative, so I know if I challenge her on the jealousy, she will deny it and point to a different meaning.

 

What should I do?

[Tony T]

YOU ASK: "Do you think that the expression of jealousy was some expression of any feelings she has for me?"

 

You came to the expert. I've had this same experience a number of times so I've done a lot of investigating. It's a complex psychological mechanism which has nothing to do with any romantic interest in you on the lady's part.

 

The answer to your question is a resounding NO!!! If she had an interest in you, she would tell you immediately because she knows you have feelings for her.

 

The expression of jealousy is a very normal thing that most women feel when they know there's another woman who is going to get more attention from their friend than they are. It's perfectly natural. Don't for a half a second interpret it as an interest on her part.

 

There are many women like her who don't want a romance with a particular friend but they don't want any other woman having him either. I've never understood that but that's how it is.

 

While she's your friend, she will never ever give you impartial advice where romance is concerned so don't even go there. Talk to other lady friends you know will be more objective.

 

She behaved as any woman you expressed feelings toward would behave...but it's no big deal at all.

 

I strongly advise you to get your mind off ever being with this lady and move on with your life. She's got a boyfriend and its NOT you. Remember that. People are ALWAYS with the person they most want to be with...unless they're crazy in some way.

[midori]

Tony's advice here is spot on.

 

Speaking as a woman, I know that having admirers is a very nice thing. Even when there is no way that anything will ever develop between a woman and her male admirer, she enjoys knowing that he's there admiring her. She might genuinely like him, and might wish happiness for him in a general way.

 

But the prospect of another woman coming into his life is an invariable threat to her, because it will threaten to bump her off the pedestal the guy had placed her on. I've been on both sides of this. I've had guy friends who had crushes on me eventually fall in love with other women, and I was surprised by my initial jealous reaction. Caused me to do some hard thinking about what my motives were, and since then I've been careful about how I structure my friendships with guys who are hoping for more. I've also been on the other side, that is, I dated a guy whose female "friends" were jealous that they were no longer the apple of his eye. One woman in particular was noticeably cool toward me, I'm quite sure she was not a supporter of my relationship with the guy -- and she was married to someone else! She married someone with money, a nice but rather dull guy. My (now ex) boyfriend was very charming and interesting, and this woman was used to him being in an adoring orbit around her. He was a bit secretive about his friendship with her, about their history, etc. It was one of many things that made me doubt him.

 

So my advice is this: forget this friend. Sometimes you need to be strategic in the friends you select and maintain. There are a couple of reasons why this woman is not a good friend for you to have: 1. you admit you still have feelings for her, and you're clearly prone to reading into what she says and does in the hope that maybe she's got feelings for you too. 2. she may well engage in subtle forms of sabotage for any other relationship you form. No matter how much the two of you have in common, those are two BIG REASONS why you should just steer clear of her. She's not really a friend: you wish she were more, and she's not capable of acting in your best interests. She would not be happy for you if you found a good relationship with another woman.

 

If you insist on keeping her in your life don't talk about your romantic life. It's none of her business, and anything she might have to say on the subject may well be poisoned.

[The Prisoner]

Thanks for the advice. I feel a bit betrayed by all of this, and a little angry! How can a "close friend" behave like that! If the roles were reversed, yes I would feel hurt and jealous but I would NEVER attempt to sabbotage any prospective relationship she might have just to maintain the status quo.

 

At the moment I really want to confront her about this and her motives and be dammed! Would continuing to talk about this other person make her see sense at all by bringing the matter to a head?

 

If this is all true, then I feel really let down!

[Tony T]

YOU ASK:

 

1. "At the moment I really want to confront her about this and her motives and be dammed! Would continuing to talk about this other person make her see sense at all by bringing the matter to a head?"

 

WHAT??? What matter??? There is no matter. The issue is all over. Talking about this with her will make you look like a fool and make her VERY uncomfortable.

 

Didn't you read midori's most eloquent post above. She is a lady and and very smart one and you were lucky enough to get her to give you a priceless response. Read it again.

 

Now, if you are in the habit of confronting dogs for barking and birds for chirping, maybe this is some sort of thing you do. But I promise making any kind of a deal out of this will NOT endear you in any way to this lady.

 

We have explained her reaction as fully and clearly as possible. Leave it alone!!

 

2. "If this is all true, then I feel really let down!"

 

Why? I don't understand that at all? Now, I am quoting from your first post: "So platonic friends with no complications is what we have both agreed and that’s fine by me." YOU WROTE THAT!!! Now, when you wrote that were you lying or trying to kid yourself??? If you are platonic friends, or you feel like she is a platonic friend, you would not have asked the above question. Me thinks you speak with forked tongue or just aren't being honest with yourself. It almost sounds like you called her to ask her for this advice in order to get a response of some sort from her. What did you want her to say, "OK, I'll break up with my guy right away and I'll be your new girl?"

 

Listen to me. If you make an issue of this, bring it upto her at all, or act immaturely like you can't handle a platonic friendship with her, you will eventually become an annoyance to her and she will send you cruising.

 

I personally don't understand why you would even want a friendship with somebody you want more from. It's not fair to either of you.

 

Spend a few days sorting out your feelings. I think you're real confused. If she was just a platonic friend to you, you would not have reacted so intensely to what, as we have clearly explained to you, was just a very normal reaction a lady would have to news that she was possibly going to have to give up her throne in the eyes of a male friend...that's ALL there was to it...over and out.

 

Maybe you have been let down...but it wasn't your lady friend who did it to you...it was YOU, yourself. Don't be so mean to yourself. And, by all means, leave your lady friend alone and don't bother her with this stuff. She's got a boyfriend and you need to find a nice girl you like that you can enjoy spending time with.

 

You have to give her the benefit of the doubt that she was giving you her honest opinion of your new love situation. How could you possibly go back to her and confront her about the views she gave you without absolute, conclusive evidence that she was trying to sabotage your happiness. I think she was just irritated that you chose her to ask instead of somebody else...and she may have very well felt you were trying to get some sort of rise out of her for which she could be equally pissed at you for. From the gitgo, there was no way you were going to get pure, unbiased advice from her...a girl who knows how you feel about her.

 

Again, back off...leave it alone...and get your love advice elsewhere.

 

This forum is always a great place to start.

[The Prisoner]

Hey Tony, thanks but all I was trying to say is "is she a true friend"? I would expect a true friend to want what I want for the reasons that I want it and to be happy for me and support me to the hilt, even if it meant that they might be out of the picture a little. I would for her, no doubt. Is it not her that is behaving immaturely in this jealous reaction when there's no substance to it? Rather like "I'm taking my ball home" "Fight for what you want" is okay, but "Fight just to stop someone else getting what they want" is surely wrong, or at least it is in my book.

 

Yes, I have feelings for her and even if those were reciprocated, I couldn't behave like that to her and withdraw support if I thought she was going into another relationship. If it is a natural reaction, as you say, then fine I accept that, but how many guys would do that in the reverse situation? If you agree not many, then maybe that is why I can't understand the reasoning behind it. I was open with her - I didn't just tell her to get a reaction - that's unfair! I value her opinion and we have spoken freely about other relationships in the past. She doesn't get jealous of my other female friends or past girlfriends about which she knows. Why then this one!

 

If she wants me around just to make her feel good and know she has an admirer, then, I'm sorry but I do feel used.

 

Any other help or comments guys?

[Tony T]

Well, it doesn't look like you're willing to give people room to be human so you may not make a good friend for her...or anybody else until you can allow for that factor.

 

Yes, she can be a true friend...but she is human before that and she will react in ways that humans react. A dog is a dog before it's a pet or companion.

 

The bigger question is are YOU a TRUE friend. I don't think so. First, you aren't willing to be a little flexible here...and you have an agenda...you are wanting more from her than she is willing to give. I've done that myself a few times and it's not a proper or productive thing to do.

 

I can't give you a very accurate assessment of this whole situation because I didn't hear every word each of you uttered. But the MATURE thing to do is to cease asking this lady for love advice and back away from the friendship a bit so you can see reality more clearly and recognize the purpose you have for maintaining contact.

 

You were way wrong in asking a girl you like to give you advice.

 

I don't know that you are understanding the whole concept of the advice that has been given you. It is a pretty complex psychological principle so I won't hold that against you.

 

I don't think she is wanting you around to make her feel good. I'm sure she takes responsbility to make herself feel good. I don't think she qualifies as a user for enjoying having an admirer any more than Jay Leno is a user for enjoying having better ratings than David Letterman.

 

I give up trying to explain all this to you. Why don't you just confront her like you want to and screw up everything. The friendship may as well end now if this is going to drive you nuts...but just be warned she will be dumbfounded by such a lame confrontation.

 

I hope one day in life you learn to give people a little rope and cut them some slack. If you overanalyze every person's behavior and react to it impulsively, you will end up a very lonely man.

 

If you're that upset with her, just leave her alone.

[The Prisoner]

Thanks Tony. Will try to think things through and take a little time to ponder over this principle. Whilst I do understand the feeling she has about the jealosuly, I have to admit not understanding the resulting action.

 

Will try to cut some slack though and see how things settle down.

 

Will keep you posted.

 

Thanks again.

[Just A Girl2]

I'm inclined to think this description of yours really gets to the heart of what's going on with her:

 

"I know she can be moderately devious and manipulative.."

 

Wow, such admirable qualities, not.

 

I would definitely NOT misread this catty, snide little comment/tone of hers to be jealousy. She could simply be one of those people who likes to be in control at all times.

 

She was the one in control initially, right? When you made your feelings to her known......and she basically ended your friendship (wow, nice gal) for a lengthy period of time. Doesn't sound like much of a friend to me, sounds like a brat who likes to be in charge and hold control over someone.

 

Maybe she doesn't want you, but doesn't want anyone else to have you either.

 

Maybe she's just a little tease, a little game-player.

 

Why on earth would she even be jealous if she's in a relationship with someone at present anyway? Her feelings should ONLY be toward the guy she's with.........and if that's not the case, then it shows you how disloyal and deceitful she really is. You'd want someone like that in your life?

 

And don't dismiss this "devious, manipulative" stuff. Those qualities are synonymous with TROUBLE, HEARTBREAK, BS.

 

AND YES!...a 'true friend' WOULD want you to be happy, but she has made it clear that she doesn't. She likely knows you still have some feelings for her and she's just f*cking with your head, she likely enjoys that power trip of being able to do so. I'd say find a new friend.

[Tony T]

Just A Girl2 WRITES:

 

1. "Maybe she doesn't want you, but doesn't want anyone else to have you either."

 

That's the possibility I would put my money on.

 

2. "...she basically ended your friendship (wow, nice gal) for a lengthy period of time. Doesn't sound like much of a friend to me, sounds like a brat who likes to be in charge and hold control over someone."

 

I think this was the humane thing for her to do given this man's persistence and romantic fondness. Women know when they have to move out of the picture for a while so a guy can cool his jets. She was extremely honest in telling him she did not care for him in a romantic way. I know how this goes because the exact thing has happened to me on two occasions. (So I'm a slow learner)

 

Again, she certainly isn't the person you ought to turn to for love advice.