How do I overcome the complications of dating and avoid drama?

[Alpacalia]

On 9/28/2023 at 11:02 AM, introverted1 said:

Of course you have.  Anyone who has used OLD has had the experience of meeting time-wasters, people who are not emotionally available, people who don't look like their photos, people who say they want one thing but actually want something else... It's the nature of the beast.  And this is why the only solution is to change how you perceive and react to the people you meet, because you cannot change the people.  Yes, you can leave OLD completely and this will reduce the number of such people you meet, but it will also reduce the number of people you meet overall. A better approach would be to accept (without negativity or bitterness) that most of the people you meet will not be a fit for you.  Use those dates to work on being your best self, practice your banter, learn to flirt...  that way, when you have a date with someone who might actually be a fit, you are someone she will be attracted to.  

I think this is great advice.

I would not approach OLD as a solution to loneliness, a cure for singledom. It's a tool to meet people who, on paper, seem to possibly be a fit for you.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Edited October 7 by Alpacalia

[Versacehottie]

8 hours ago, Lamron300 said:

This is the bit I’m struggling with. I’m getting burnt out knowing that most dates or convos from OLD don’t go anywhere. I’m not meeting people organically because I mostly working all the time, which makes me burnt out to do much else. I keep delaying joining local events.

With OLD I keep making the same mistakes and meeting the same kind of people. 

And this is your mistake over and over and over again. You don't accept things AS THEY ARE. So in failing to do that, you put outsize expectations on something that can never be the way you want it to be. It also stops you from finding alternative ways of getting to the same goal or how you prioritize things. For example, if you feel that OLD is sort of a waste of time and not particularly valuable to you in that you get burnt out and ACCEPTED that, then you would PRIORITIZE meeting people organically!  Also you need to accept that you should do it because nearly everyone looking to date uses  it but then way LOWER your expectations about it (which you seem highly unable to do with most everything). IMO, keep OLD apps running in the background and have lowered expectations about how well those dates will go (change your desired outcome, ie into just having fun or exploring a new place with a new person or improving your dating skills or simply getting that "number" that will bring you closer to your desired person). 

Idk, with many things you keep beating your head against a wall and then taking very little action. What is your excuse besides the excessive time work takes to have failed to take action on joining local events? also if you can't find time to spend a few hours socializing organically, how do you foresee adding a girlfriend into your life? BTW, not one that is financially dependent on you and where you quickly combine adding her into your work mix and moving her into your house.  A girl with some character and ambition is going to have her own life and likely to be bored or fed up with a guy that can't make some time with her and doesn't do anything socially.  You have to create "space" so this can happen. It's virtually no different whether you are using the "space" for dating time while you are looking for someone and once you've found her. You need to allot the time somehow. 

40/50 matches and a return rate of 4 is decent to good in the world of business and marketing.  Lol you know it's like 2-5%, right? That's something to keep in mind. That they were poor quality and/or didn't result in a girlfriend is a multi-factored issue. Plus you are supposedly also dating those two other girls. I think it's always good to keep those sort of percentages in mind to toughen up and keep yourself going in the face of what feels like failure. Right now you have about a 10% convert rate after matching. I still don't think OLD is the best way to go because it's effectively cold calling which is why I'm quoting cold calling percentages. I always get the sense that you want everything easy and are quick to whinge about it/anything. You aren't going to win someone over if you have a negative mindset. You have to work on that top priority IMO. 

[Lamron300]

1 hour ago, Versacehottie said:

And this is your mistake over and over and over again. You don't accept things AS THEY ARE. So in failing to do that, you put outsize expectations on something that can never be the way you want it to be. It also stops you from finding alternative ways of getting to the same goal or how you prioritize things. For example, if you feel that OLD is sort of a waste of time and not particularly valuable to you in that you get burnt out and ACCEPTED that, then you would PRIORITIZE meeting people organically!  Also you need to accept that you should do it because nearly everyone looking to date uses  it but then way LOWER your expectations about it (which you seem highly unable to do with most everything). IMO, keep OLD apps running in the background and have lowered expectations about how well those dates will go (change your desired outcome, ie into just having fun or exploring a new place with a new person or improving your dating skills or simply getting that "number" that will bring you closer to your desired person). 

Idk, with many things you keep beating your head against a wall and then taking very little action. What is your excuse besides the excessive time work takes to have failed to take action on joining local events? also if you can't find time to spend a few hours socializing organically, how do you foresee adding a girlfriend into your life? BTW, not one that is financially dependent on you and where you quickly combine adding her into your work mix and moving her into your house.  A girl with some character and ambition is going to have her own life and likely to be bored or fed up with a guy that can't make some time with her and doesn't do anything socially.  You have to create "space" so this can happen. It's virtually no different whether you are using the "space" for dating time while you are looking for someone and once you've found her. You need to allot the time somehow. 

40/50 matches and a return rate of 4 is decent to good in the world of business and marketing.  Lol you know it's like 2-5%, right? That's something to keep in mind. That they were poor quality and/or didn't result in a girlfriend is a multi-factored issue. Plus you are supposedly also dating those two other girls. I think it's always good to keep those sort of percentages in mind to toughen up and keep yourself going in the face of what feels like failure. Right now you have about a 10% convert rate after matching. I still don't think OLD is the best way to go because it's effectively cold calling which is why I'm quoting cold calling percentages. I always get the sense that you want everything easy and are quick to whinge about it/anything. You aren't going to win someone over if you have a negative mindset. You have to work on that top priority IMO. 

I really like this post as it makes a lot of sense. I do feel OLD is a waste of time as I'm even at the point I've seen 1000s of profiles and they are so unoriginal, they literally say the same thing. I don't want to completely stop using it as there is always the chance you meet someone. I don't have patience for small talk, I am a good conversationalist and like to listen to people but there is no point talking for more than 2-3 days without arranging a date. I find this hard to get across sometimes.

I keep putting off doing more things organically and I don't know why. Well I kind of do, when I am not working I am most weekends hanging out with the people I am dating. I am only using dating as socialising and not any other activities. I don't drink much alcohol anymore as it puts me out of action for days.. a lot of the local groups are 'mid-week drinks', so I am currently trying to find alternatives. I think step one is definitely taking up new hobbies, just relaxing into things. I feel very animated at the moment. 

I like how you used a business analogy. Running two businesses I am very calm about things. If a customer goes with someone else, I am always think ahead to the next one. I have secured 3/4 jobs by the time they send a rejection email. If I don't have much work, I think positively and come up with solutions. With dating I am a bit stuck, because patience and luck is required. I have even spoken to people that if we met years before we would have got on but they had too much baggage at that point. Two people came back in 2022 trying to go back to me but obviously I was in a relationship at that time. 

It could be as simple as just trying real life interaction. A lot of my frustration/negative comes from the unknown of OLD, which doesn't exist in real life (people looking different to photos, not knowing peoples emotional availability etc). My ideal scenario is I meet someone at some sort of hobby/class and get to know them over a few weeks in different settings. I am very relaxed but I feel that I am not even in the race. I haven't been online dating for 3 months....its been ten years. Thousands of matches etc, but of what quality and what outcome? I am now 30, not 25 like when I started on this forum. I need to make some grown up decisions.

[basil67]

7 hours ago, Lamron300 said:

 I do feel OLD is a waste of time as I'm even at the point I've seen 1000s of profiles and they are so unoriginal, they literally say the same thing

Well yes, in a broad sense, most people are pretty much the same....most of us enjoy time with friends, family, travel, music etc.   If you're wanting someone to stand out among a crowd, you're expecting a lot.

Forgive me if this has been asked before....but as you've seen 1000s of profiles, are you punching above your weight?  

7 hours ago, Lamron300 said:

I keep putting off doing more things organically and I don't know why. Well I kind of do, when I am not working I am most weekends hanging out with the people I am dating. I am only using dating as socialising and not any other activities. I don't drink much alcohol anymore as it puts me out of action for days.. a lot of the local groups are 'mid-week drinks', so I am currently trying to find alternatives. I think step one is definitely taking up new hobbies, just relaxing into things. I feel very animated at the moment

This is why advice to aim for three dates per week really isn't feasable.   I mean, you'd virtually have to give up your free time to do it.   Do you still have a group of mates who you can make time for and socialise with? 

[Lamron300]

7 hours ago, basil67 said:

Well yes, in a broad sense, most people are pretty much the same....most of us enjoy time with friends, family, travel, music etc.   If you're wanting someone to stand out among a crowd, you're expecting a lot.

Forgive me if this has been asked before....but as you've seen 1000s of profiles, are you punching above your weight?  

This is why advice to aim for three dates per week really isn't feasable.   I mean, you'd virtually have to give up your free time to do it.   Do you still have a group of mates who you can make time for and socialise with? 

Thousands of profiles over ten years isn’t a lot. And I mostly swipe left. 
 

Need to make new friends who are into the same things as me. A lot of my good friends live far away, now. 

[Alpacalia]

I think it's probably because you're expecting someone to stand out on OLD, while in reality, everyone seems kind of the same because they're all following similar templates (filling out the same prompts, choosing photos that are popular among daters, etc.).

You say that you prefer someone to capture your attention and stand out from the crowd, but in the end, the reality is that most people are just trying to present themselves in a way that they think will attract potential dates. OLD has become a numbers game for many people. They are swiping through hundreds of profiles in search of their perfect match, and in doing so, they might not be fully present or invested in each individual.

It makes it seem as though people are interchangeable or not putting in much effort, when in reality they may just be overwhelmed with choices. Try not to put too much weight on it and to continue meeting people in real life as well. That way, you can form a more well-rounded view of someone rather than just what they present on their profile.

[basil67]

10 hours ago, Lamron300 said:

Thousands of profiles over ten years isn’t a lot. And I mostly swipe left. 

Thousands of rejected profiles is a huge amount.  And the reason it's gone on for 10 years is likely because you're swiping left on so many.  How is it that all these thousands of woman aren't good enough for you to bother speaking with?   Serious question.  What do you see which makes them undatable?

Given the amount of time you've been single, you're obviously doing something wrong so perhaps changing your criteria a bit would help?

Quote

Need to make new friends who are into the same things as me. A lot of my good friends live far away, now. 

Good idea.  What kinds of things do you enjoy doing with mates?  

Edited October 8 by basil67

[Weezy1973]

4 minutes ago, basil67 said:

How is it that all these thousands of woman aren't good enough for you to bother speaking with?   Serious question.  What do you see which makes them undatable?

Yes this, plus it seems like the women you’re swiping right on and getting dates with aren’t good matches for you. Your “picker” is off.

[Alpacalia]

2 hours ago, basil67 said:

Thousands of rejected profiles is a huge amount.  And the reason it's gone on for 10 years is likely because you're swiping left on so many.  How is it that all these thousands of woman aren't good enough for you to bother speaking with?   Serious question.  What do you see which makes them undatable?

Given the amount of time you've been single, you're obviously doing something wrong so perhaps changing your criteria a bit would help?

Yeah, sorry mate, if you've been doing this for *ten years* and haven't managed to find a single shred of blame for yourself in how it just hasn't worked... I mean, maybe the problem starts with you. I don't know what the root cause of the issue is - whether it's shallow criteria, not being open enough about what you want, inability to connect with people, etc.

My point is, if you're having all this "drama", maybe the problem starts with your approach and criteria rather than the women you're swiping on. And I stand by that point. It's not about blaming you, it's about helping you examine your own behavior and patterns so that you can find success in dating.

[Lamron300]

4 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

Yeah, sorry mate, if you've been doing this for *ten years* and haven't managed to find a single shred of blame for yourself in how it just hasn't worked... I mean, maybe the problem starts with you. I don't know what the root cause of the issue is - whether it's shallow criteria, not being open enough about what you want, inability to connect with people, etc.

My point is, if you're having all this "drama", maybe the problem starts with your approach and criteria rather than the women you're swiping on. And I stand by that point. It's not about blaming you, it's about helping you examine your own behavior and patterns so that you can find success in dating.

I’ve had three relationships from online dating in those ten years, I don’t mean I’ve been single for ten years.

[Versacehottie]

On 10/7/2023 at 1:10 PM, Lamron300 said:

I really like this post as it makes a lot of sense. I do feel OLD is a waste of time as I'm even at the point I've seen 1000s of profiles and they are so unoriginal, they literally say the same thing. I don't want to completely stop using it as there is always the chance you meet someone. I don't have patience for small talk, I am a good conversationalist and like to listen to people but there is no point talking for more than 2-3 days without arranging a date. I find this hard to get across sometimes.

I keep putting off doing more things organically and I don't know why. Well I kind of do, when I am not working I am most weekends hanging out with the people I am dating. I am only using dating as socialising and not any other activities. I don't drink much alcohol anymore as it puts me out of action for days.. a lot of the local groups are 'mid-week drinks', so I am currently trying to find alternatives. I think step one is definitely taking up new hobbies, just relaxing into things. I feel very animated at the moment. 

I like how you used a business analogy. Running two businesses I am very calm about things. If a customer goes with someone else, I am always think ahead to the next one. I have secured 3/4 jobs by the time they send a rejection email. If I don't have much work, I think positively and come up with solutions. With dating I am a bit stuck, because patience and luck is required. I have even spoken to people that if we met years before we would have got on but they had too much baggage at that point. Two people came back in 2022 trying to go back to me but obviously I was in a relationship at that time. 

It could be as simple as just trying real life interaction. A lot of my frustration/negative comes from the unknown of OLD, which doesn't exist in real life (people looking different to photos, not knowing peoples emotional availability etc). My ideal scenario is I meet someone at some sort of hobby/class and get to know them over a few weeks in different settings. I am very relaxed but I feel that I am not even in the race. I haven't been online dating for 3 months....its been ten years. Thousands of matches etc, but of what quality and what outcome? I am now 30, not 25 like when I started on this forum. I need to make some grown up decisions.

well thank you...I don't know that I was saying OLD is a complete waste of time. Lol, i wasn't giving you license to bash on something more and place blame. What I'm saying with the majority of my posts is that if you take responsibility then you can take action. So thus if you feel OLD is less effective for you than it should be, YOU need to change your approach to that venue and/or find other venues. I'm not here to keep piling on or fueling your excuse-making machine lol, tough love but I stand by it. It's you negative bias that is affecting EVERYTHING you do, even taking the advice I gave and that you seem to like about OLD just above, you take it on to further whinge and say you've seen 1000s of useless and boring profiles. 🙃🙄 I wonder what they thought about yours....just saying. I am of the opinion that many things can only be "boring" if you yourself are being "boring"...I mean it might be too overly positive or generalizing for you to comprehend but yeah they might not be "your person" but each person has some value and interests and SOMETHING you can usually talk to them about. I already told you as you've described your life, I would find that boring--even though I know there is much more to you, just inherently and because of what you write here. But yeah, if you have no time and thing walking your dog is attractive and respond with a lot of the reasoning you do here, I'd absolutely think you are conveying "boring". Like someone said, I'm not saying this to tear you down but so that you start seeing things from other perspectives and get to the point where you can utilize these perspectives for some growth and improving your outcomes. 

From the concrete stuff you said, above, here is what I would do as a plan in your shoes.:

*Keep OLD running in the background.

*Stay on the apps but make it less of a focus, chose a small amount of time to give it per day or every other day. Idk maybe 20-30 minutes? 

*Don't complain about conversations going on and on without meeting up quickly. Actually DO something about it. Try to meet up within the week once you match with someone and chat a tiny bit. Somehow I get the feeling that you not having much time is part of the reason why you aren't meeting these people right away--be honest if it's not just the other person, but is YOU with the tough schedule as well which is causing this. Use the app texting to chat a little and set the date. Don't feel super obligated to keep talking on and on. Even once you set the date, save conversation for the date not texting beforehand. If someone is reluctant to meet up, don't get negative and fatalistic just be nice but put her on a back burner  (can explain more if you need). Don't unmatch but stop investing much...ball is in her court if you asked her out with a solid date/day in mind and she is waffling. You sort of need to churn and burn to get momentum, traction and get through the numbers of meeting people to find the right person. I feel like while I say this--you are going to really struggle with doing it. I've said it before you need to change your outlook and expectations for this part to go well. It is also the same when you meet people organically--you want to use the momentum to get on the date to see if there is mutual and progressing interest there. No harm, no foul if there isn't. It's just a fun night. If you are truly a good conversationalist, um yeah this shouldn't be a problem and should be "relatively" enjoyable for you even if it's not a love match. 

*Use the extra time you've gained and made space for to make a better social life/hobbies/interests for yourself. I keep harping on "making space". I think there is no point in wanting a real relationship as much as you do and continuing to date two women who you don't plan to do that with. How desperate are you?!!!???! I mean, you mention vaguely that taking time and I'm sure it does...and simultaneously you complain about not having proper time to find and meet the right one. Also there is the theory that if you are "sufficed" in some way, ie in this case some emotional/physical needs met, you are not going to be that motivated in an effective way to propel yourself to action where you truly do still feel a need. You are wasting  your own time and resources to keep dating these two. Plus it's bad karma and messy and misleading. I feel like you are probably stringing one or both along in some way.

The bolded might be one of the best things I've ever heard you say. Shows positive mindset, low expectations and that you are in charge of your own destiny. Let's face it even in business it does require patience and luck!! You are probably just better at business than you are at interpersonal relationships. Also with business you BELIEVE you can thus it affects your outcomes positively, in how you think of addressing it and coming up with solutions and the way you apply yourself...whereas with love you are down and out. Basically somehow you need to do the same mindset layered onto dating (probably a little more vulnerable to do so and you probably have some personal work to do to be as attractive as possible to others and it still won't all be in your control--but neither is signing new clients!).  LOL ACCEPT THIS: you are not going to get certainty with dating...stop being frustrated about it and accept it. Embrace it in a way, ie "well I never saw that coming". You are 30 years old but your mentality is heavy like someone who has been greatly put out by life and it's just starting. Jeez. Why would you want or imagine that there would be certainty...it's people. Dating is people. People surprise us all the time. Prepare to be pleasantly surprised or prepare to be frustrated and disappointed. You have yourself so conditioned for the latter that's all you see. It also has you paralyzed. If you've literally seen 1000s of disappointing profiles over a period of 10 years and DID NOT CHANGE SOMETHING in your approach then who is to blame? Why are you blaming 1000 people for being lame effectively when you banged your head against the wall for 10 years doing something that doesn't pay off? Also I'm being funny but things are rarely black and white so I highly doubt that there were no "good" people in there but that what you are doing in reviewing the profiles or your mentality is bombing some aspect of this. It's not all on "them" for sure. 

second bolded, thank the lord! So happy you said this. Finally. Please stick with this idea. Good luck

[Alpacalia]

19 hours ago, Lamron300 said:

I’ve had three relationships from online dating in those ten years, I don’t mean I’ve been single for ten years.

Right.

But if you've had 3 relationships it doesn't sound like it's been a waste of time. Sure you've had to put in the work and wade through a lot but you still ended up with relationships out of it. But scrolling through 1000s of profiles and finding each one boring sounds like a personal problem, to be honest.

Not everyone will have a well rounded profile, but not everyone is limited and dull either. It's like saying you've made small talks with 1000s of people, surely everyone can't be a waste of time? And what small talk? Where? Text? Exchange a couple of lines then get to the point and ask someone out. Idk, from what you've mentioned, it doesn't sound like Online dating is the problem here.

Maybe your own expectations vs reality or impatience is the problem? 🤷‍♀️

By 25+, majority of people will be looking for something committed and stable. So online dating might not be as fruitful as days of the past unless you accept that. You're also "going steady" with two women at the same time  and somehow you feel it's because they are limiting/dividing? While dating also sounds unreasonable.

Could it be that monogamy is just not your thing?

We must remember that we can't change things we can't change. It's a market place, it's no longer what it used to be. Too many people are now dating. We see people complain about the same thing from BOTH genders everywhere online. The problem might be better fixed by changing personal frame of reference rather than look for huge changes to be made on other people's part.

When you expect people to be so well rounded, it's kind of like how someone can have a good CV but then they aren't great for the job. If you don't find interest after a few lines, you lose hope about originality. I mean who are you to expect that in the first place? Do you have all the traits you expect from others? At this point, hoping for something like that from a stranger from the internet seems like icon of idealistic perfectionism.

People won't be original and interesting to you in that short snippet. It's just quick information for them.

Edited October 10 by Alpacalia

[Wiseman2]

20 hours ago, Lamron300 said:

I’ve had three relationships from online dating in those ten years, I don’t mean I’ve been single for ten years.

Paradox of choice. Try to narrow things down. Being all over the place contributes to burnout from having to sift through all the clutter and noise.