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5 years and no proposal…


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He put out an 8-10 year dating timeframe. That is what he really wants, and that’s how things are going.

 

If that’s not going to work for you, why don’t you propose to him?

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29 minutes ago, Timshel said:

If he wanted to marry you, he would be talking more about it and making it happen.

I am so sorry that the above is soooo true.

You did the right thing and waited for him to finish medical school.... but only to see your time waisted. You have a daughter or single men will say "Baggage" that drops your SMV and +5yrs waiting has not helped. He has increased his value by finishing med school and well on his way to being a doctor. He should now be attracting girls 10yrs his younger, single without baggage. After all the years in school he is likely looking at taking on a fresh nurse or two. 

It doesn't matter how you want to play the game, no man wants to raise a child that is not his own when coming to the party late. He used you, plain and simple. You tried to use him as marriage material..... He finished first. Yes it really is ruthless, if he married you and you gained his finances you would be made after any loans paid, money, status being a doctors wife, all the right contacts, live in the best part of town, your daughter going to the best private schools, attending the right dinner parties etc. 

Hypergamy can be very cruel to either party involved, this time it was you.... You shot too high. 

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1 hour ago, Caauug said:

.... You shot too high. 

How did she shoot "too high"?  She has a Masters degree in public health & is in the process of applying to medical school herself!  She may have shot too low if you & this guy can't see her as a quality achiever on par with him, possibly superior, because he doesn't have the masters degree and she did all of this while raising a child on her own while he did it the easy way.  

 

Edited by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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1 hour ago, d0nnivain said:

How did she shoot "too high"?  She has a Masters degree in public health & is in the process of applying to medical school herself! She may have shot too low if you & this guy can't see her as a quality achiever on par with him, possibly superior, because he doesn't have the masters degree and she did all of this while raising a child on her own while he did it the easy way.  

 

I think his actions speak for themselves. I never claimed life was fair.

All IMO....

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Not saying @Caauug is right, but just pointing out that women tend to value achievements / career success more than men do, so while his value as a mate goes up, hers probably doesn’t change much.

That being said, I think the actual reason he hasn’t proposed yet is because he wanted to wait 8-10 years. He said that directly. If she wants to speed that up, it’s on her to propose. It might not be the story she imagined in her mind, but it will get her an answer one way or the other.

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moonlightstar
1 hour ago, Caauug said:

I am so sorry that the above is soooo true.

You did the right thing and waited for him to finish medical school.... but only to see your time waisted. You have a daughter or single men will say "Baggage" that drops your SMV and +5yrs waiting has not helped. He has increased his value by finishing med school and well on his way to being a doctor. He should now be attracting girls 10yrs his younger, single without baggage. After all the years in school he is likely looking at taking on a fresh nurse or two. 

It doesn't matter how you want to play the game, no man wants to raise a child that is not his own when coming to the party late. He used you, plain and simple. You tried to use him as marriage material..... He finished first. Yes it really is ruthless, if he married you and you gained his finances you would be made after any loans paid, money, status being a doctors wife, all the right contacts, live in the best part of town, your daughter going to the best private schools, attending the right dinner parties etc. 

Hypergamy can be very cruel to either party involved, this time it was you.... You shot too high. 

 

1 hour ago, d0nnivain said:

How did she shoot "too high"?  She has a Masters degree in public health & is in the process of applying to medical school herself!  She may have shot too low if you & this guy can't see her as a quality achiever on par with him, possibly superior, because he doesn't have the masters degree and she did all of this while raising a child on her own while he did it the easy way.  

 

Thank you @d0nnivain! @Caauug I would not say that he is "superior" to me unless you are just comparing "doctorate" degree. There is a potential for me to obtain a M.D. but for now I make over 6 figures a year and would like to be financially stable for my daughter and I before I jump into a ridiculous amount of debt for many years. All of our friends think that I deserve better because he hasn't seen my worth. I just haven't been able to change how I feel about him until lately I've been more disappointed. I just need to have an actual conversation about where things are headed and decide.

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1 hour ago, Caauug said:

You did the right thing and waited for him to finish medical school.... but only to see your time waisted. You have a daughter or single men will say "Baggage" that drops your SMV and +5yrs waiting has not helped. He has increased his value by finishing med school and well on his way to being a doctor. He should now be attracting girls 10yrs his younger, single without baggage. After all the years in school he is likely looking at taking on a fresh nurse or two. 

It doesn't matter how you want to play the game, no man wants to raise a child that is not his own when coming to the party late. He used you, plain and simple. You tried to use him as marriage material..... He finished first. Yes it really is ruthless, if he married you and you gained his finances you would be made after any loans paid, money, status being a doctors wife, all the right contacts, live in the best part of town, your daughter going to the best private schools, attending the right dinner parties etc. 

Hypergamy can be very cruel to either party involved, this time it was you.... You shot too high. 

I'm sorry Caauug, none of this makes sense.  Hypergamy is only for the people who play those games, leave the rest of us out.

My post is simple as this issue is simple.  A person either feels it or not.  There is no doubt that moonlightstar's bf is attached to her and has feelings for her.  It's not complicated, he would lock you down if he wanted, OP.  That he hasn't is absolutely no reflection on your worth as a woman, person...none.  He just isn't that into you.  Hanging around longer won't change that.

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20 hours ago, moonlightstar said:

 I've told him my timeline and he agreed and said we should see what happens.

I used that same line with an ex that was pushing to get married and have kids when I didn't want to yet. I told her we will see what happens in the future and when the time is right it will all happen. Truth is it was just a way of saying 'no' as I did not want to get married and have kids with her. Don't hold your breath on anything changing with your boyfriend in another 5 years. It's up to you if you want to keep on wasting time, or find someone that actually appreciates you for you.

Edited by Mystery4u
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If marriage is important to you and he is aware of this, then you shouldn’t have to wait this long. You should not have to ‘ask’ for marriage nor should you have to have another conversation about it. That puts you in a situation where there is an imbalance of power - you want something from him and he is not prepared to give it. This can be very subtle but devastating in the long run.

He might well love you but I sense this is about respect as well. If he hasn’t asked you by now, I doubt he will. You can hang on and hope but you will inevitably end up having this conversation with him again when your heart tells you something is not quite right. You will then feel all the less for having to bring your needs to his attention again with little effect.

It has to be your choice but remember, this is a guy who has trained to be a doctor; he is making a success of it (as you will too). He knows how to get things done - when he wants to. As long as you are in this ‘waiting for him’ position, your self esteem will crumble. You could be meeting someone who is clear he wants the same as you. Unless you are prepared to accept less than you think you are worth, I would walk. Do not say why or ask him one last time if he is likely to propose, walk with dignity and find what you truly deserve in life.

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I'm a bit irritated by how much you seem to value the label of marriage. It's just a name.

I'm a bit irritated by your frustration with friends and relatives getting married. It's not a race. It's a decision that should be well considered after regarding both your and his respective current situations and plans in life - not anyone else's timeline. Wanting to keep up with others is not a valid motivation for marriage. It can easily come across like you care more about the trophy that you can present to other women, rather than your actual relationship. If this should happen to be the impression he gets, I can understand his hesitation.

Also, he said he wanted to date for 8 to 10 years before getting married? Give him credit for being straightforward about it, and doing what he says - it's not like he deceived you in that regard, is it?

What's much more than a name or a label though, and of course you know that even better than I do, is bringing a child into this world. You told us he said he wants to, but you haven't told us how you feel about having another child with him. To me, that seems to be the more important matter, the one that you really should be on the same page about. If he wants to have children of his own, as you did, then for him, proposing to marry really should be taking a back seat to figuring out whether you are the woman to have children with or not.

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On 7/2/2020 at 7:04 AM, moonlightstar said:

Last summer was the first time I talked to him about it. I told him that I had a feeling his brother and his gf would get engaged by Christmas and that would really make me upset since they’ve only been dating for a year and half and I know everyone is different but I knew it would still make me feel bad. His response was his brother is really impulsive and he will be jumping the gun too early. Well it did happen and he was scared to tell me about it because he knew I would be upset. I found out and we ended up fighting about it because I couldn’t help but feel disappointed, angry, and sad.

First up, I want to say that I understand how you feel.   I bet you feel like you're in a whole lot of limbo.  

Howeer....you've done yourself no favours with the way you approached it above.   You've taken a joyous (if somewhat rash) occasion for his brother and made it about yourself.  The end result being that your boyfriend felt that he couldn't be honest with you.   And when someone can't be honest because they know their partner will get mad, they don't talk to us about how they really feel.   If you want solid dialogue with your boyfriend, it's helpful if you listen while keeping your emotions in check.

Would either of you be open to compromise?   What about a long engagement?  Get engaged soonish and get married when he's in a position to do so.   Try suggesting it.  If he baulks at this, then walk away because it will show he has no intention of marrying you.

Edited by basil67
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I have a good friend who dated a man for five years, she desperately wanted to get married, and he kept saying... “I love you, but.... I’m just not sure if I’m ready...”

She finally decided enough was enough. Within a year she had found someone else. Within another year she was married. They now have two kids, a beautiful new home they just built, and they are enjoying the summer as a family at their cottage....

The man who wouldn’t propose, he is also doing well. Last I heard he was living with another woman, they were not married and they did not have any children...

If you want to be married and have a child, this is not your guy. Five years is a long time to spend with someone who doesn’t share your same vision for the future. You need to find the courage to follow your dreams...

Edited by BaileyB
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I personally don't think there is a wrong and right time to getting married. You feel it, you do it. You already earn in the 6 digits, you are independant and don't need  his financial support to get by with your child. I imagine he is capable as well so ....The right time is an excuse. He wants to spend the rest of his life with you, grow with you, go through hell and back with you...or he doesn't. My ex-husband and I got marred I was 20, he was 27, and we had nothing! If we had waited for financial stability we would have waited till our 40s, if we had waited for my  job or  his to get to the next level we would have end up waiting 20 years. 

Marriage is to go through life *together*, intership or not. 

You've waited long enough, actually you've waited too long, it's your responsibility in this story. If a man doesn't want to marry after 2-3 years he'll never. 

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1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

OP, just propose to him. It’s 2020. And that way you get an answer.

It's not the same.

She wants him to propose as he is the one stalling.
She doesn't want to force his hand so he has to give in or he just says no..
Neither will feel good to her.

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38 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

It's not the same.

She wants him to propose as he is the one stalling.
She doesn't want to force his hand so he has to give in or he just says no..
Neither will feel good to her.

But he already made clear the 8-10 year timeframe, and she dismissed it as less important than her timeframe. If she’s the one that wants to marry sooner, it’s up to her to instigate it. 

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5 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

he already made clear the 8-10 year timeframe

I know, the OP should have listened.
Never a good idea to ignore clear messaging in favour of what you think SHOULD happen.

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11 hours ago, Giovane said:

I'm a bit irritated by how much you seem to value the label of marriage. It's just a name.

I'm a bit irritated by your frustration with friends and relatives getting married. It's not a race. It's a decision that should be well considered after regarding both your and his respective current situations and plans in life - not anyone else's timeline. Wanting to keep up with others is not a valid motivation for marriage. It can easily come across like you care more about the trophy that you can present to other women, rather than your actual relationship. If this should happen to be the impression he gets, I can understand his hesitation.

Marriage is not just a name or label, though. It means many things, objectively speaking (legally, culturally, religiously). And, most importantly, it means a lot to her. Of course, it might simply be a label to you. And that's fine. But you are not her. 

It's unfortunate that she chose to focus on other people's relationship milestones while talking to her boyfriend about her desire to get married soon. Because that gives the impression that she wants to get married since other people are getting married. But we know that that's not actually true. She indicates she was straightforward with him about how important marriage was to her early in their relationship. I think she is bringing up other people's milestones now because she feels like the voiceless partner in the relationship (completely my opinion; of course I may be wrong). He seems to have more say over how things progress than she does. When you feel like you have less control than your partner, chances are you're going to try to use external "evidence" to support your argument. You may feel like your perspective is not enough to convince the other person.

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What exactly is going to happen if you did get married, though? You'd move there, move in with him? Hope that you get into med school in the same location that he ends up? What if you don't?

I think that even among people who do want marriage (not everyone does), it means different things to different people. To some people, like yourself, it means an emotional commitment to a person. To other people it may mean a different stage in their own life, or a legal/financial commitment, or til death do them part, etc. Some people I know wouldn't get married if one party was still in school or there was a good chance that they'd have to carry on long distance. Some people (including myself) would not ever marry a person that they have never lived with - it's too big a risk IMO.

I'm not saying we're right and you're wrong or anything like that. Each viewpoint is valid. All I'm saying is that from my point of view he has pretty solid reasons. I'm a woman and I wouldn't want to get married in your situation either.

Edited by Elswyth
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We live in different times now. Used to be marriage was the logical next step after dating for a period of time. It was just what you did. Those times are over. Marriage is now not necessarily a next step, but a new direction. Fewer and fewer are taking this direction now. Theres just no reason to. People move in together, have kids, and then wait for a marriage proposal. I dont know when it got this way, but it certainly takes the motivation out of marriage. I assume you dont have kids together, so there isnt that now, but still, its just not a logical next step anymore. It seems people either definitely want to get married, or they definitely dont want to get married (but they never say that because its just easier to drag it out and not cause a fight). If someone doesnt want to get married, pressuring them to get married will only cause fights. Its an incompatibility.Its important to you to get married, but its just as important to him that he doesnt want to get married. At least not now.

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Blind-Sided
On 7/2/2020 at 11:29 AM, Weezy1973 said:

He put out an 8-10 year dating timeframe. That is what he really wants, and that’s how things are going. If that’s not going to work for you, why don’t you propose to him?

That's a bad idea.

One of my female friends was in a similar situation.  She dated a guy for close to 6 years, and he didn't seem to want to move forward.  While he was a nice guy... he didn't really want to move out of his situation. (being a man child. late 20's and mom taking care of him) They broke up over it... but after 7 months or so, got back together.  At that point, she proposed to him, and more or less had to plan the entire wedding. Her hopes were, he would become a better person and turn into a "Husband" once they were together, and moved into the house they bought together.   So... only 6 months after that... she realized that he wouldn't change, and now she has become his "Mom."   She wants things to work, and she truly loves her partner... but she is tired of not really having a "Partner" in life.   She is currently working on her divorce because she realizes he will never change.   

OP... you cant force people to change.  You will either have to accept his timeline, or you will have to just move on. 

 

Edited by Blind-Sided
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On 7/2/2020 at 11:29 AM, Weezy1973 said:

He put out an 8-10 year dating timeframe. That is what he really wants, and that’s how things are going.

 

If that’s not going to work for you, why don’t you propose to him?

HIS time frame is 8 to 10 years.  They've been together for 5 years.  She can propose and if he accepts, they will be engaged for 3 to 5 years ;)

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