Mateguarding - When does it end? [update: What to make of this?]

[howtoproceed]

It's sort of common knowledge and common recommendation to people getting divorced to never leave the house.

 

Understanding Marital Property and Abandonment in Relation to Divorce

 

I didn't even bother checking out that link because it probably says something like this is meant as general advice and suggest getting a lawyer. Well my real, live flesh and blood lawyer never said a word about me leaving.

 

And edited to add. I discovered my wife was cheating on me and had to live with her for 6 freaking long months while she continued maintaining her relationship with the OM.

 

See, why should any man or woman have to put up with that?

Under no circumstances can you wear that as a badge of honor, including I endured it for the kids or to protect my assets or anything.

It sounds like a cuckold fantasy that lasted 6 horrific months and its not something I would ever allow myself to endure.

[dreamingoftigers]

I didn't even bother checking out that link because it probably says something like this is meant as general advice and suggest getting a lawyer. Well my real, live flesh and blood lawyer never said a word about me leaving.

 

 

 

See, why should any man or woman have to put up with that?

Under no circumstances can you wear that as a badge of honor, including I endured it for the kids or to protect my assets or anything.

It sounds like a cuckold fantasy that lasted 6 horrific months and its not something I would ever allow myself to endure.

 

Not every lawyer is a great one either.

 

I had to terminate my first lawyer during custody. He was ridiculous and wanted ME practically signing everything away and I was the ONLY PRESENT PARENT. Made no sense. Sayonara.

 

My next lawyer secured everything pretty easily because it was a SLAM DUNK.

 

If your lawyer was aware that your goal was to cut and run, he isn't going to argue with you about "Staying around the kids." That's not his job. His job is to get you the best settlement within YOUR framework. Your framework is "Bye everything."

[howtoproceed]

Not every lawyer is a great one either.

 

What an idiotic comment.

 

I go though all the trouble of finding a lawyer and you defer to a link from a person named Madjack.

 

Let me put it like this: the courts can go fcku themselves - I'm not staying in a house while I wife cheats - not for children, not for assets, not for anything.

[howtoproceed]

So I broke down and read that link and as I suspected, its general advice and it defers to state law and then it dives into the issue of abandonment. That's what the link is all about - abandonment.

 

Well, I just happened to have looked that up and in my State, I have not yet and will not in the future abandon anyone.

 

- She knows I'm leaving and where I'm going

- I will continue to provide support

 

By definition, this is not abandonment.

 

Even better - it turns out there is constructive abandonment, which is when you have cause to leave and guess - infidelity is considered cause.

 

So I guess we are all lawyers just spewing out comments on the law.

[MadJackBird]

So I broke down and read that link and as I suspected, its general advice and it defers to state law and then it dives into the issue of abandonment. That's what the link is all about - abandonment.

 

Well, I just happened to have looked that up and in my State, I have not yet and will not in the future abandon anyone.

 

- She knows I'm leaving and where I'm going

- I will continue to provide support

 

By definition, this is not abandonment.

 

Even better - it turns out there is constructive abandonment, which is when you have cause to leave and guess - infidelity is considered cause.

 

So I guess we are all lawyers just spewing out comments on the law.

 

Good Luck,

 

I hope for your sake she doesn't have a nasty vindictive lawyer. I will second what was already said, There are many types of lawyers.

 

Not sure why you called out my screen name, Madjackbird is a play on words of my three precious kids names, something I care about deeply, and despite me living an almost exactly same situation as you, I always put their needs first and you can easily read through my few responses in this thread and see that theme in my response. I am not a huge contributor to this site, but when certain threads spark my interest because I have personally gone through similar situations I tend to join in the conversation. But as for now this will me my last response to this thread and to you.

 

Your screen name is how to proceed and you came to this forum with advice on how to proceed. You can now look through over 400 responses on how to proceed. Many in the last two weeks, from many various people saying the same thing I said. Please consider your kids in every decision as you move forward.

 

Later and I'm out,

[Noirek]

So I broke down and read that link and as I suspected, its general advice and it defers to state law and then it dives into the issue of abandonment. That's what the link is all about - abandonment.

 

Well, I just happened to have looked that up and in my State, I have not yet and will not in the future abandon anyone.

 

- She knows I'm leaving and where I'm going

- I will continue to provide support

 

By definition, this is not abandonment.

 

Even better - it turns out there is constructive abandonment, which is when you have cause to leave and guess - infidelity is considered cause.

 

So I guess we are all lawyers just spewing out comments on the law.

Actually by defintion what you are doing and heading towards is custodial parent abandonment. Its not criminal and since thats all you care about you are right. However while maritial abandoment with just cause in the few states that are fault states is legal there is no state that allows child abandonment (the criminal one) so unless you drop a government website for that one thats just bad info to put on the web.

 

The problem with custodial abandonment. Paying your money and meeting the basic financial needs but leaving your children is that should you ever realize that your girls are more important than hurt feelings and are the bigger picture... It won't look good. At all to the court. So while you won't be fined or go to jail, you would have a hard time getting any custody of the kids. You physically leaving shows the court that while you feel legally obligated to your children you have no interest in their emotional needs. And that would be against you.

 

However, if you have no concern about being on their lives at any point. Then you can just keep sending the money and be done with it.

 

How can abandonment of children by noncustodial parents be prevented?

[eye of the storm]

If his STBXW is smart, she will refuse to let her children leave the country. She could claim that you might not let them come back home after their visitation and getting China to recognize her claims as their custodial parent would be a legal burden. Also, in the US, both parents have to sign to get the children a passport. (or they did when I got passports for my then underage children) She can refuse. You might only get visitation when you come back to their country of residence.

 

But, none of this matters. You want to go. Your wants are more important than their needs. Go. fly free.

[jimmytwowheels]

Good for you. Maybe you're a stronger man than OP. That's not the point. The point is that he clearly can't sustain this life anymore.

 

 

He deserves to think about his happiness too. I don't suggest abandoning his children, but going to take a year or two to find himself might not be the worst thing, assuming he keeps in touch with his kids.

[Mz. Pixie]

Actually by defintion what you are doing and heading towards is custodial parent abandonment. Its not criminal and since thats all you care about you are right. However while maritial abandoment with just cause in the few states that are fault states is legal there is no state that allows child abandonment (the criminal one) so unless you drop a government website for that one thats just bad info to put on the web.

 

The problem with custodial abandonment. Paying your money and meeting the basic financial needs but leaving your children is that should you ever realize that your girls are more important than hurt feelings and are the bigger picture... It won't look good. At all to the court. So while you won't be fined or go to jail, you would have a hard time getting any custody of the kids. You physically leaving shows the court that while you feel legally obligated to your children you have no interest in their emotional needs. And that would be against you.

 

However, if you have no concern about being on their lives at any point. Then you can just keep sending the money and be done with it.

 

How can abandonment of children by noncustodial parents be prevented?

 

I actually know someone IRL that had liberal visitation for a child in another state. He was unemployed for a bit and didn't visit for a year. The birth mother had his custody revoked as child abandonment. He is stil required to pay support and a huge amount.

 

Much less another country. It happens.

[Noirek]

I actually know someone IRL that had liberal visitation for a child in another state. He was unemployed for a bit and didn't visit for a year. The birth mother had his custody revoked as child abandonment. He is stil required to pay support and a huge amount.

 

Much less another country. It happens.

 

I have seen this fairly often. It isn't always the case but I just don't think the OP and many others realize the disolving of the marriage and custody disputes are separate. They think by meeting minimal legal requirements they are okay... and they certainly are better off than the parents who don't but the while emotional part of parenting is what is considered in the family courts. I know many, many people who detatch from their children. A woman left her child with friends of mine and took of with a new guy. To most people it is hard to comprehend when fathers and mothers leave their children when there are so many options to stay close to home. But that is why we have so many messed up adults.

[howtoproceed]

Noirek strings together drivel like this to make an argument:

 

A woman left her child with friends of mine and took of with a new guy.

 

His point is, like the woman who left her kids with friends, my kids will be messed up adults.

 

I'm leaving my kids with their adoring mom that they love and cherish, in a beautiful house and in a beautiful and safe neighborhood with great schools. A house we bought post-DDay by the way. I left them something like the American Dream but with a single mom point of view cause yes, she will be the custodial parent and she'll do fine.

 

I can even argue that I supported my wayward wife for at least 6 mnths past DDay so she could get her nursing degree.

 

If they turn into messed up adults, don't blame me.

[Noirek]

Noirek strings together drivel like this to make an argument:

 

 

 

His point is, like the woman who left her kids with friends, my kids will be messed up adults.

 

I'm leaving my kids with their adoring mom that they love and cherish, in a beautiful house and in a beautiful and safe neighborhood with great schools. A house we bought post-DDay by the way. I left them something like the American Dream but with a single mom point of view cause yes, she will be the custodial parent and she'll do fine.

 

I can even argue that I supported my wayward wife for at least 6 mnths past DDay so she could get her nursing degree.

 

If they turn into messed up adults, don't blame me.

 

You like to insult people who you disagree with, huh? Your wife can't be all that terrible if she is an adoring mother. Because adoring mothers don't use their kids against their poor betrayed husbands. Now, some people make better parents than spouses but not people who are as evil as you have painted your wife. Not people who drive their spouses across the world. So either you are exaggerating her behaviour to justify your own actions or choosing to be blind to the effect it will have on your children having only her constant influence in their life. If your kids grow up and are messed up it will be because of both parents' selfishness. One parent doesn't get to wash their hands of consequences and the kids. Well I mean you can, but it doesn't change reality. Ever heard of Daddy issues? Dads are important.

 

At the end of the day we are responsible for our own actions. Your wife is responsible for the damage she did to your marriage and to her children because of it. And you are responsible for abandoning your children for your own self interest over it. You had many, many other healthier (but less me centered and "fun") choices you could have made. But you cared more about your own feelings than you did for your children and so you have justified your choices. You attack and belittle anyone who calls you on it but you keep coming back so either you enjoy what you think is stirring up poo (i'm not invested by the way, you're not my husband and I am losing no sleep over this or distraught over your one line attacks) or you actually do feel guilt over leaving your children at the mercy of a woman who is apparently a horrible human being without being in their lives as a beacon of stability and love and so you look for the very few people who say what you want to hear, even if you know what you are doing makes you a crappy parent.

[howtoproceed]

Your wife can't be all that terrible if she is an adoring mother. Because adoring mothers don't use their kids against their poor betrayed husbands. Now, some people make better parents than spouses but not people who are as evil as you have painted your wife.

 

Two things jump out at more but I'm sure there is lots more.

 

First, I never said my wife was evil - I said she cheated, is not transparent, excludes me from her life, may be having an affair but certainly thinking out it, ect, ect but I never said she is evil. I don't think being a cheat makes a person evil. It just makes them a cheat.

 

Second, in fact a person can be evil and be an excellent parent. I'm sure it happens all the time.

[LexiCat29]

I don't understand. Why are you punishing your daughters for your wife's bad behavior? What have they done wrong here?

[howtoproceed]

I guess finally manning up and growing a pair has changed how I perceive things. Like, I find this statement really pathetic.

 

I don't understand. Why are you punishing your daughters for your wife's bad behavior? What have they done wrong here?

 

What don't you understand?

What makes you think I'm punishing my daughters?

What makes you think my 6 and 8 year old daughters have done anything wrong?

[Noirek]

I guess finally manning up and growing a pair has changed how I perceive things. Like, I find this statement really pathetic.

 

 

 

What don't you understand?

What makes you think I'm punishing my daughters?

What makes you think my 6 and 8 year old daughters have done anything wrong?

 

I think because mainy fathers have a close daily relationship with their children. They hate when it gets cut in half with divorce but are still there as much as possible. The children always have daddy close and see him often in flesh. Hug him and have him come to all the important events in their lives. To see a dad throw that away because he isn't man enough to stay close to them can look like in punishment to others. I know you are convinced you aren't hurting them but I don't think you are seeing your value as a father.

 

And all the stories of your wife. I mean making your kids lie???! That is pretty evil. And if you don't like that word. That is not a wonderful mom.

[Noirek]

I guess finally manning up and growing a pair has changed how I perceive things. Like, I find this statement really pathetic.

 

 

 

What don't you understand?

What makes you think I'm punishing my daughters?

What makes you think my 6 and 8 year old daughters have done anything wrong?

 

Okay I had a laugh. You must be just having fun with people. There is no way any normal human being things running away to the otherside of the world and leaving their children behind because their wife cheated and didn't want to reconcile "growing a pair". Running away is like the opposite of that.

[Mz. Pixie]

Personal attacks are always the last resort of someone without a better argument.

[Mz. Pixie]

I don't understand. Why are you punishing your daughters for your wife's bad behavior? What have they done wrong here?

 

The reason he's replying to your post the way he did is that yes. He's indirectly doing all of this but he doesn't want anyone to tell him that.

 

He wants to pis* on us and tell us it's raining.

[dreamingoftigers]

What an idiotic comment.

 

I go though all the trouble of finding a lawyer and you defer to a link from a person named Madjack.

 

Let me put it like this: the courts can go fcku themselves - I'm not staying in a house while I wife cheats - not for children, not for assets, not for anything.

 

I'm sure the courts give a damn.

 

Whether or not you think I deferred to the link, I don't care. My point to you was that your attorney might not be Johnny Cochrane or F Lee Bailey.

 

If you review other people's separations and divorces that a whole new tank of sharks to watch out for.

 

You're welcome.

[dreamingoftigers]

I actually know someone IRL that had liberal visitation for a child in another state. He was unemployed for a bit and didn't visit for a year. The birth mother had his custody revoked as child abandonment. He is stil required to pay support and a huge amount.

 

Much less another country. It happens.

 

I've learned as a general rule to cover your a** and document the Hell out of everything.

 

The courts can have a very negative opinion unless you are backed up to the hilt.

 

I would even do anything minor that was a risk for looking bad regarding custody.

 

You can bet the wife in this case is documenting the Hell out of everything. She doesn't even like the guy. She won't likely agree to his visitation requests, even just out of spite.

 

Look at the birthday party incident. If he has any text messages or emails that show him being nasty at all, coupled with him leaving the country. Pffft. It would be pretty much over.

[dreamingoftigers]

Noirek strings together drivel like this to make an argument:

 

 

 

His point is, like the woman who left her kids with friends, my kids will be messed up adults.

 

I'm leaving my kids with their adoring mom that they love and cherish, in a beautiful house and in a beautiful and safe neighborhood with great schools. A house we bought post-DDay by the way. I left them something like the American Dream but with a single mom point of view cause yes, she will be the custodial parent and she'll do fine.

 

I can even argue that I supported my wayward wife for at least 6 mnths past DDay so she could get her nursing degree.

 

If they turn into messed up adults, don't blame me.

 

"Don't blame me, I wasn't even there."

 

Do yourself a favor and look up Wallerstein. Read the actual accounts.

 

If you aren't missing your children by now, that's really something.

 

Because they are probably missing you.

 

I haven't seen you mention how they might be feeling NOW. I couldn't imagine how much my kids would be hurting if I took off for a week, much less months.

 

I did have to take a six-week venture for work years ago and I made sure she and I talked every night. And it was still hard on her. My son is only 7 months old and he already misses me when I'm working

[William]

Folks, thanks for your participation and responses. The thread starter cooked their own goose so we'll call this one done and move on.