Mateguarding - When does it end? [update: What to make of this?]

[howtoproceed]

She is a good mother. She had my daughters lie to betray me not betray them. They had a great time at the party.

 

If you go through with this selfish plan of yours, kiss your relationship with your children goodbye. Good Grief!

 

When all is said and done, posters like you, Mz.Pixie, GrapesofWrath, whoever are like making this wager that my children will be crushed, damaged and my relationship with them destroyed.

 

Only time will tell but if my daughters turn out like my sons and I have the same kind of relationship with them as I have with my sons, I'll be satisfied.

 

You can't that because you are on moral high ground and have a sense of indignation and are feeling quite righteous because you are so sure you are right.

[Married1988]

She is a good mother. She had my daughters lie to betray me not betray them. They had a great time at the party.

 

When all is said and done, posters like you, Mz.Pixie, GrapesofWrath, whoever are like making this wager that my children will be crushed, damaged and my relationship with them destroyed.

 

Only time will tell but if my daughters turn out like my sons and I have the same kind of relationship with them as I have with my sons, I'll be satisfied.

 

You can't that because you are on moral high ground and have a sense of indignation and are feeling quite righteous because you are so sure you are right.

 

You are missing the point. I hope for your sake; I do that you don't live to regret this.

 

If she is ready telling your children to lie, to betray you. (them enjoying the party or not is irrelevant) Do you think she is going to sit back and not lie to them? If what you are saying about her is true. Do you think she is going to sit back and tell your kids? "Daddy had to move half way across the world because of me." Not she is not. She is going to tell them you abandoned them; she is going to blame you for breaking up the family. She is going to lie, and lie some more to make you look like the bad guy.

[Married1988]

You can't that because you are on moral high ground and have a sense of indignation and are feeling quite righteous because you are so sure you are right.

 

This isn't about being right. This is about being realistic. Your wife is selfish and you are selfish. This is assuming everything you are saying is absolutely true. Then I really do feel bad for your children.

[Noirek]

She is a good mother. She had my daughters lie to betray me not betray them. They had a great time at the party.

 

 

 

When all is said and done, posters like you, Mz.Pixie, GrapesofWrath, whoever are like making this wager that my children will be crushed, damaged and my relationship with them destroyed.

 

Only time will tell but if my daughters turn out like my sons and I have the same kind of relationship with them as I have with my sons, I'll be satisfied.

 

You can't that because you are on moral high ground and have a sense of indignation and are feeling quite righteous because you are so sure you are right.

 

Well, first off, your sons have a different mother. Is their Mother a pathalogical liar who uses them betray you?

 

Second, Did you go to the other side of the world and leave your sons to hook up with younger women? Did you plan to stay on the otherside of the world and retire there a world away from your sons?

 

I have my doubts about all of this though. After all why are you still here when you have all those hot young things all over you?

[Married1988]

 

I have my doubts about all of this though. After all why are you still here when you have all those hot young things all over you?

 

I'm now having doubts if any of his story is even true. But if it is then I really do feel for his children.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Married1988

[dreamingoftigers]

I don't agree with the thought of leaving the kids with a toxic wife, but I don't agree with the "sign over all your assets to your ww while watching her date and walk all over you" either.

 

There must be some middle ground somewhere.

 

It is called litigation and being present for your children. Like 90+% of people that divorce with children do.

[Mz. Pixie]

She is a good mother. She had my daughters lie to betray me not betray them. They had a great time at the party.

 

 

 

When all is said and done, posters like you, Mz.Pixie, GrapesofWrath, whoever are like making this wager that my children will be crushed, damaged and my relationship with them destroyed.

 

Only time will tell but if my daughters turn out like my sons and I have the same kind of relationship with them as I have with my sons, I'll be satisfied.

 

You can't that because you are on moral high ground and have a sense of indignation and are feeling quite righteous because you are so sure you are right.

 

I still do not see the correlation between moral high ground and almost all of us telling you not to leave your children?

 

First of all, YOU came here seeking advice- we didn't seek you out to give it to you. You do not have to take any advice offered of course, yet when you ask for advice on a public forum you are bound to get advice that differs from your ideals.

 

I could see it if I were even fussing about you hooking up with Chinese women, but I am not.

 

Do you what to know why you keep saying we are giving you advice from moral high ground and the like?

 

The answer is simple. You know deep down inside that this is not the right thing to do- and it makes you angry that we disagree with what you are doing to your kids.

[jimmytwowheels]

I don't have kids. I'm happily married with an amazing wife. I've never cheated. But I have been cheated on before.

 

 

I don't think it's right to abandon your children. But I don't think you're going to abandon your children, I think you're going to go have some fun in Asia (it's a fun place) and when you've cooled off you'll return and reset your relationship with your children.

 

 

I don't understand what people are asking of you.

 

 

>you marry a woman and provide for her

>you have children with her

>you are faithful to her

>she betrays you in the deepest way

>she refuses to even be repentant

>she gaslights you

>she shows signs of cheating again

>she mocks you and belittles you in person and to others

 

 

Their solution?

 

 

>leave the house you paid for

>pay her money to live in your 4 bedroom house while you rent a bachelor pad

>slowly crumble as a man and a person when she starts bringing her new man into your marital bedroom.

 

 

 

 

Nah man. You won't do any good hanging around. Go clear your head, but don't forget your daughters are stuck with a liar. Get back to them soonest.

[MadJackBird]

I don't have kids. I'm happily married with an amazing wife. I've never cheated. But I have been cheated on before.

 

 

I don't think it's right to abandon your children. But I don't think you're going to abandon your children, I think you're going to go have some fun in Asia (it's a fun place) and when you've cooled off you'll return and reset your relationship with your children.

 

 

I don't understand what people are asking of you.

 

 

>you marry a woman and provide for her

>you have children with her

>you are faithful to her

>she betrays you in the deepest way

>she refuses to even be repentant

>she gaslights you

>she shows signs of cheating again

>she mocks you and belittles you in person and to others

 

 

Their solution?

 

 

>leave the house you paid for

>pay her money to live in your 4 bedroom house while you rent a bachelor pad

>slowly crumble as a man and a person when she starts bringing her new man into your marital bedroom.

 

 

 

 

Nah man. You won't do any good hanging around. Go clear your head, but don't forget your daughters are stuck with a liar. Get back to them soonest.

 

You are missing a lot of details.

 

He left the house and the kids. That's not going to look good for him with the divorce settlement. He is entitled to half the house assets so even if he gets an apartment he's going to get paid if he gives up the house... Or he didn't have to run out of the house and demand she leave if she didn't want to be married to him and wanted to cheat on him. Establishing primary care of the kids in the process.

 

Her cheating has nothing to do with his obligation to provide child and maybe spousal support, however he stated she makes more then him so if he tried for shared care or more parenting time she might pay him.

 

>you marry a woman and provide for her

>you have children with her

>you are faithful to her

>she betrays you in the deepest way

>she refuses to even be repentant

>she gaslights you

>she shows signs of cheating again

>she mocks you and belittles you in person and to others

 

Wow you could have said this about my former wife, and probably numerous others. Big difference is I didn't throw a hissy fit about it and run off half way across the country. I got myself into some IC, support groups and did any and everything I could to maintain some amount of consistency and love to my kids.

 

He acts like his situation is so special and different and he has been sooooo soooooo wronged. Well it's not that different... Many many of us have been married to serial cheaters with major personality disorders and have had figure out how to make the best of it and move on with our lives, and many many people would do any and everything for their kids, a lot of people don't get that chance though even after being the victim of adultery because of the divorce laws. He need only read any number of the other threads in this very forum to see his story isn't that special or different.

[howtoproceed]

@Jimmytwowheels

 

Thanks for summing up where I'm coming from so precisely.

And I won't abandon my daughters. I'm going to see them for a few days next weeks and I'll be back over Chinese New Year and then again over the Summer. But you hit the nail on the head:

 

>you marry a woman and provide for her

>you have children with her

>you are faithful to her

>she betrays you in the deepest way

>she refuses to even be repentant

>she gaslights you

>she shows signs of cheating again

>she mocks you and belittles you in person and to others

 

This is exactly what happened. I'm not saying I was a saint or a perfect husband, but I made personal and professional sacrifices to provide and got zero appreciation from her. I mentioned this before because it just shows how she thinks and how she trashes me. I lost my day job and immediately got a job delivering pizzas - I mean like the next day I was delivering pizzas just to bring in some income. Two months later, I got a new day job. Its all documented and time stamped in the termination letter and the new contract start date. She was telling people I was "unemployed delivering pizzas" for 6 months. First of all, how could I be "unemployed delivering pizzas?" That shows just how unappreciative she is. When I showed her the documents proving I was old of work (a day job) for 2 months, she became agitated and told me to "stop talking." That shows her contempt for me.

 

Their solution?

 

 

>leave the house you paid for

>pay her money to live in your 4 bedroom house while you rent a bachelor pad

>slowly crumble as a man and a person when she starts bringing her new man into your marital bedroom.

 

 

"Crumble as man" is exactly what I'm talking about. Actually, that's what has been happening for the past 18 mnths. I have been crumbling as a man by Mateguarding this thing on the prowl for something better.

[howtoproceed]

@Madjackbird

 

He left the house and the kids. That's not going to look good for him with the divorce settlement.

 

Are you a lawyer or something because my lawyer did not say one word about me leaving the house. For example, he didn't suggest I move back in asap. What court would tell a man he has to live with his cheating wife? She was cheating, I have the texts to prove it and I wasn't about to put up with that so I left. That's my story for the courts.

[MadJackBird]

@Madjackbird

 

 

 

Are you a lawyer or something because my lawyer did not say one word about me leaving the house. For example, he didn't suggest I move back in asap. What court would tell a man he has to live with his cheating wife? She was cheating, I have the texts to prove it and I wasn't about to put up with that so I left. That's my story for the courts.

 

It's sort of common knowledge and common recommendation to people getting divorced to never leave the house.

 

Understanding Marital Property and Abandonment in Relation to Divorce

 

And edited to add. I discovered my wife was cheating on me and had to live with her for 6 freaking long months while she continued maintaining her relationship with the OM.

Edited November 29, 2016 by MadJackBird

[howtoproceed]

It's sort of common knowledge and common recommendation to people getting divorced to never leave the house.

 

Understanding Marital Property and Abandonment in Relation to Divorce

 

I didn't even bother checking out that link because it probably says something like this is meant as general advice and suggest getting a lawyer. Well my real, live flesh and blood lawyer never said a word about me leaving.

 

And edited to add. I discovered my wife was cheating on me and had to live with her for 6 freaking long months while she continued maintaining her relationship with the OM.

 

See, why should any man or woman have to put up with that?

Under no circumstances can you wear that as a badge of honor, including I endured it for the kids or to protect my assets or anything.

It sounds like a cuckold fantasy that lasted 6 horrific months and its not something I would ever allow myself to endure.

[dreamingoftigers]

I didn't even bother checking out that link because it probably says something like this is meant as general advice and suggest getting a lawyer. Well my real, live flesh and blood lawyer never said a word about me leaving.

 

 

 

See, why should any man or woman have to put up with that?

Under no circumstances can you wear that as a badge of honor, including I endured it for the kids or to protect my assets or anything.

It sounds like a cuckold fantasy that lasted 6 horrific months and its not something I would ever allow myself to endure.

 

Not every lawyer is a great one either.

 

I had to terminate my first lawyer during custody. He was ridiculous and wanted ME practically signing everything away and I was the ONLY PRESENT PARENT. Made no sense. Sayonara.

 

My next lawyer secured everything pretty easily because it was a SLAM DUNK.

 

If your lawyer was aware that your goal was to cut and run, he isn't going to argue with you about "Staying around the kids." That's not his job. His job is to get you the best settlement within YOUR framework. Your framework is "Bye everything."

[howtoproceed]

Not every lawyer is a great one either.

 

What an idiotic comment.

 

I go though all the trouble of finding a lawyer and you defer to a link from a person named Madjack.

 

Let me put it like this: the courts can go fcku themselves - I'm not staying in a house while I wife cheats - not for children, not for assets, not for anything.

[howtoproceed]

So I broke down and read that link and as I suspected, its general advice and it defers to state law and then it dives into the issue of abandonment. That's what the link is all about - abandonment.

 

Well, I just happened to have looked that up and in my State, I have not yet and will not in the future abandon anyone.

 

- She knows I'm leaving and where I'm going

- I will continue to provide support

 

By definition, this is not abandonment.

 

Even better - it turns out there is constructive abandonment, which is when you have cause to leave and guess - infidelity is considered cause.

 

So I guess we are all lawyers just spewing out comments on the law.

[MadJackBird]

So I broke down and read that link and as I suspected, its general advice and it defers to state law and then it dives into the issue of abandonment. That's what the link is all about - abandonment.

 

Well, I just happened to have looked that up and in my State, I have not yet and will not in the future abandon anyone.

 

- She knows I'm leaving and where I'm going

- I will continue to provide support

 

By definition, this is not abandonment.

 

Even better - it turns out there is constructive abandonment, which is when you have cause to leave and guess - infidelity is considered cause.

 

So I guess we are all lawyers just spewing out comments on the law.

 

Good Luck,

 

I hope for your sake she doesn't have a nasty vindictive lawyer. I will second what was already said, There are many types of lawyers.

 

Not sure why you called out my screen name, Madjackbird is a play on words of my three precious kids names, something I care about deeply, and despite me living an almost exactly same situation as you, I always put their needs first and you can easily read through my few responses in this thread and see that theme in my response. I am not a huge contributor to this site, but when certain threads spark my interest because I have personally gone through similar situations I tend to join in the conversation. But as for now this will me my last response to this thread and to you.

 

Your screen name is how to proceed and you came to this forum with advice on how to proceed. You can now look through over 400 responses on how to proceed. Many in the last two weeks, from many various people saying the same thing I said. Please consider your kids in every decision as you move forward.

 

Later and I'm out,

[Noirek]

So I broke down and read that link and as I suspected, its general advice and it defers to state law and then it dives into the issue of abandonment. That's what the link is all about - abandonment.

 

Well, I just happened to have looked that up and in my State, I have not yet and will not in the future abandon anyone.

 

- She knows I'm leaving and where I'm going

- I will continue to provide support

 

By definition, this is not abandonment.

 

Even better - it turns out there is constructive abandonment, which is when you have cause to leave and guess - infidelity is considered cause.

 

So I guess we are all lawyers just spewing out comments on the law.

Actually by defintion what you are doing and heading towards is custodial parent abandonment. Its not criminal and since thats all you care about you are right. However while maritial abandoment with just cause in the few states that are fault states is legal there is no state that allows child abandonment (the criminal one) so unless you drop a government website for that one thats just bad info to put on the web.

 

The problem with custodial abandonment. Paying your money and meeting the basic financial needs but leaving your children is that should you ever realize that your girls are more important than hurt feelings and are the bigger picture... It won't look good. At all to the court. So while you won't be fined or go to jail, you would have a hard time getting any custody of the kids. You physically leaving shows the court that while you feel legally obligated to your children you have no interest in their emotional needs. And that would be against you.

 

However, if you have no concern about being on their lives at any point. Then you can just keep sending the money and be done with it.

 

How can abandonment of children by noncustodial parents be prevented?

[eye of the storm]

If his STBXW is smart, she will refuse to let her children leave the country. She could claim that you might not let them come back home after their visitation and getting China to recognize her claims as their custodial parent would be a legal burden. Also, in the US, both parents have to sign to get the children a passport. (or they did when I got passports for my then underage children) She can refuse. You might only get visitation when you come back to their country of residence.

 

But, none of this matters. You want to go. Your wants are more important than their needs. Go. fly free.

[jimmytwowheels]

Good for you. Maybe you're a stronger man than OP. That's not the point. The point is that he clearly can't sustain this life anymore.

 

 

He deserves to think about his happiness too. I don't suggest abandoning his children, but going to take a year or two to find himself might not be the worst thing, assuming he keeps in touch with his kids.

[Mz. Pixie]

Actually by defintion what you are doing and heading towards is custodial parent abandonment. Its not criminal and since thats all you care about you are right. However while maritial abandoment with just cause in the few states that are fault states is legal there is no state that allows child abandonment (the criminal one) so unless you drop a government website for that one thats just bad info to put on the web.

 

The problem with custodial abandonment. Paying your money and meeting the basic financial needs but leaving your children is that should you ever realize that your girls are more important than hurt feelings and are the bigger picture... It won't look good. At all to the court. So while you won't be fined or go to jail, you would have a hard time getting any custody of the kids. You physically leaving shows the court that while you feel legally obligated to your children you have no interest in their emotional needs. And that would be against you.

 

However, if you have no concern about being on their lives at any point. Then you can just keep sending the money and be done with it.

 

How can abandonment of children by noncustodial parents be prevented?

 

I actually know someone IRL that had liberal visitation for a child in another state. He was unemployed for a bit and didn't visit for a year. The birth mother had his custody revoked as child abandonment. He is stil required to pay support and a huge amount.

 

Much less another country. It happens.

[Noirek]

I actually know someone IRL that had liberal visitation for a child in another state. He was unemployed for a bit and didn't visit for a year. The birth mother had his custody revoked as child abandonment. He is stil required to pay support and a huge amount.

 

Much less another country. It happens.

 

I have seen this fairly often. It isn't always the case but I just don't think the OP and many others realize the disolving of the marriage and custody disputes are separate. They think by meeting minimal legal requirements they are okay... and they certainly are better off than the parents who don't but the while emotional part of parenting is what is considered in the family courts. I know many, many people who detatch from their children. A woman left her child with friends of mine and took of with a new guy. To most people it is hard to comprehend when fathers and mothers leave their children when there are so many options to stay close to home. But that is why we have so many messed up adults.

[howtoproceed]

Noirek strings together drivel like this to make an argument:

 

A woman left her child with friends of mine and took of with a new guy.

 

His point is, like the woman who left her kids with friends, my kids will be messed up adults.

 

I'm leaving my kids with their adoring mom that they love and cherish, in a beautiful house and in a beautiful and safe neighborhood with great schools. A house we bought post-DDay by the way. I left them something like the American Dream but with a single mom point of view cause yes, she will be the custodial parent and she'll do fine.

 

I can even argue that I supported my wayward wife for at least 6 mnths past DDay so she could get her nursing degree.

 

If they turn into messed up adults, don't blame me.

[Noirek]

Noirek strings together drivel like this to make an argument:

 

 

 

His point is, like the woman who left her kids with friends, my kids will be messed up adults.

 

I'm leaving my kids with their adoring mom that they love and cherish, in a beautiful house and in a beautiful and safe neighborhood with great schools. A house we bought post-DDay by the way. I left them something like the American Dream but with a single mom point of view cause yes, she will be the custodial parent and she'll do fine.

 

I can even argue that I supported my wayward wife for at least 6 mnths past DDay so she could get her nursing degree.

 

If they turn into messed up adults, don't blame me.

 

You like to insult people who you disagree with, huh? Your wife can't be all that terrible if she is an adoring mother. Because adoring mothers don't use their kids against their poor betrayed husbands. Now, some people make better parents than spouses but not people who are as evil as you have painted your wife. Not people who drive their spouses across the world. So either you are exaggerating her behaviour to justify your own actions or choosing to be blind to the effect it will have on your children having only her constant influence in their life. If your kids grow up and are messed up it will be because of both parents' selfishness. One parent doesn't get to wash their hands of consequences and the kids. Well I mean you can, but it doesn't change reality. Ever heard of Daddy issues? Dads are important.

 

At the end of the day we are responsible for our own actions. Your wife is responsible for the damage she did to your marriage and to her children because of it. And you are responsible for abandoning your children for your own self interest over it. You had many, many other healthier (but less me centered and "fun") choices you could have made. But you cared more about your own feelings than you did for your children and so you have justified your choices. You attack and belittle anyone who calls you on it but you keep coming back so either you enjoy what you think is stirring up poo (i'm not invested by the way, you're not my husband and I am losing no sleep over this or distraught over your one line attacks) or you actually do feel guilt over leaving your children at the mercy of a woman who is apparently a horrible human being without being in their lives as a beacon of stability and love and so you look for the very few people who say what you want to hear, even if you know what you are doing makes you a crappy parent.

[howtoproceed]

Your wife can't be all that terrible if she is an adoring mother. Because adoring mothers don't use their kids against their poor betrayed husbands. Now, some people make better parents than spouses but not people who are as evil as you have painted your wife.

 

Two things jump out at more but I'm sure there is lots more.

 

First, I never said my wife was evil - I said she cheated, is not transparent, excludes me from her life, may be having an affair but certainly thinking out it, ect, ect but I never said she is evil. I don't think being a cheat makes a person evil. It just makes them a cheat.

 

Second, in fact a person can be evil and be an excellent parent. I'm sure it happens all the time.