That damned weight issue.

[spookie]

The entire Western World didn't suddenly decide the be lazy. Obesity is more complicated than that. Yes, in general the proximal cause is an imbalance between calories in and calories out, but the distal causes are why obesity has skyrocketed since the 80s.

 

Try reading this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2722412/ or at least the conclusion.

 

And the ab thing is totally different for guys and girls. Women need some fat to remain fertile. I hope spookie can get the body she wants, but your arrogant assumptions who people who don't have ideal bodies are ignorant.

 

Yes, thank you.

[USMCHokie]

LOL I didn't think y'all were judging ME!

 

I appreciate the advice, but the main reason I shared my story was to point out that not all people who aren't losing weight are not exercising / eating right.

 

Heh, fair enough...I think even I was getting defensive myself...

 

But I agree with the bolded above. There are many circumstances that would affect one's ability to lose weight, some of which are out of the control of the individual... And like you said, others are happy right where they are, and they certainly shouldn't be judged against because they don't look like celebrities.

[nddb]

There aren't many fat Ethiopeans. Think about that for a second and see how utterly insane all the excuses are. All it takes is some self-discipline.

 

Unless one can manufacture fat from thin air (and that would solve the world's energy crisis if we can grow fat in a lab out of nothing), it comes from food we shove down our pipes. Restricting intake of high calorie food/snacks, and it's not possible to become fat/obese.

 

Nothing complicated about it.

 

The typical American supermarket already has hundreds of square feet devoted to fruits and vegetables. So the excuse about lack of availability of nutritious, high quality, low calorie food is bunk.

 

Take any supermarket, and one can easily fill a shopping cart with vegetables, fruit, grains, lean meats such as chicken. No one is forcing anybody to swing by aisle 19 and take up snacks and soda drinks and bacon and doritos.

 

Exercise for toning/ripping is something else but if one simply wants to drop the weight, just drop the high calorie food/snack/pops. Yes, it is that simple.

[that girl]

I don't get all of your excuse making bull crap.

 

You can break down obesity into any level of complexity you want. It's not going to change a damn thing.

 

It's either you eat right, exercise and look healthy/fit..

OR

Become lazy, which means shame the fatty.

Oh duh! You're a troll. I forgot! And to think I just read you "never listen to women even in bed, they totally like it when you ignore their desires!"

 

It is very sad this is the only way you have to fill your days. Maybe you should read the CDC report I linked, reading is a good way to fill your lonely days.

 

There aren't many fat Ethiopeans.

Are you talking about famine stricken areas because no kidding, those people are dying.

 

But obesity is a significant problem in the developing world, including sub-saharan Africa http://www.fao.org/FOCUS/E/obesity/obes1.htm

 

Exercise for toning/ripping is something else but if one simply wants to drop the weight, just drop the high calorie food/snack/pops. Yes, it is that simple.

You're a 19 year old boy aren't you?

[gypsy_nicky]

Some of you are going off-topic. I already mentioned in my OP that we're not here to discuss people who are medically overweight. We are here to discuss people whose weight is in the medically normal/healthy range, but who also do not conform to the aesthetic ideal. And why the aesthetic ideal is below the normal/healthy range.

 

At the first sight of weight gain, I should run for a zero-tolerance exercise/diet regime??? What?! Even if said weight gain puts me OUT of the underweight category and into the normal category??? This is exactly what sickens me. Weight gain isn't necessarily bad, as long as it remains within healthy limits.

 

I think it's not only about Asian relatives being blunt, but about the ideal standard for Asians being even MORE anorexic than Caucasians. So many of my friends who are already on the lower end of the healthy range are still trying to diet themselves into oblivion. Because 'attractive' really means 'treading the borderline between underweight and normal'.

 

 

because weight can only do so much to improve appearance. It certainly does help a lot though when ones BMI is lower.

 

 

A jump in bmi is usually a 10lb increase in weight, est (that's a pretty big jump).

 

also everyone's physique is different as to where it stores fat. If you tend to store fat in your face/neck and stomach a 10lb increase will make you look even bigger.

 

If someone criticized me for gaining weight I usually fire back with imperfections I see in the other person. It stops the 'critiques'.

[nddb]

Oh duh! You're a troll. I forgot! And to think I just read you "never listen to women even in bed, they totally like it when you ignore their desires!"

 

It is very sad this is the only way you have to fill your days. Maybe you should read the CDC report I linked, reading is a good way to fill your lonely days.

 

 

Are you talking about famine stricken areas because no kidding, those people are dying.

 

But obesity is a significant problem in the developing world, including sub-saharan Africa http://www.fao.org/FOCUS/E/obesity/obes1.htm

 

 

You're a 19 year old boy aren't you?

 

That obesity reports only proves that for the upper class in the developing world that has money to spend (and some of them are uber-rich in those countries), some of them too get obese.

 

But the fact is the fact: the human body can not manufacture fat out of thin air. It comes from the junk we shove down our throats.

 

I'm far from a 19-year old. I'm approaching 50's, and been married for 20 years. My wife and I maintain our weight to 10% of our teenage weights, and both of us have always been under 20% fat. We do nothing extra-ordinary. Just not stuffing ourselves with snacks, pops, fast food (in fact, we don't even have them around the house), and take a walk around the neighborhood every few days and general working on the yard.

 

It doesn't take a 19-year-old to maintain weight if one refrains from shoving high-fat, high-sugar junk down our system and eat more veggies, fruits, grains, etc. I'm-no-longer-a-19-year-old is only an excuse.

[that girl]

it doesn't take a 19-year-old to maintain weight if one refrains from shoving high-fat, high-sugar junk down our system and eat more veggies,

But you assume that everyone who is overweight is eating loads of junk food and don't have say PCOS or another condition that makes weight loss difficult.

 

Just not stuffing ourselves with snacks, pops, fast food (in fact, we don't even have them around the house), and take a walk around the neighborhood every few days and general working on the yard.

And not everyone has these opportunities. In the US, overweight and obesity is most prevalent in low income areas and the reasons for that aren't lazyness. Low income neighborhoods are often lack access to healthy foods (just a bodega and a Mickey D's), low income neighborhoods often lack safe spaces to walk or exercise, and people who are working two jobs don't always have time to exercise or hunt down groceries.

 

I think it is pretty obvious from my posts in this thread that this is something I have training in. If a friend was talking to me about weight loss, I would encourage them to exercise and cut down on junk food. A lot of people could lose 10-20% of their weight easily.

 

But I also know enough about obesity to know that these moral judgments are shortsighted and don't address what is really going on. John and Sally might just be lazy, but you have no way to tell whether the fat guy who delivers you pizza is fat because he is lazy or if he is fat because of a thyroid condition (not the norm, but possible) or if he is fat because he works two jobs to support his kids and eats pizza everyday because it is free and Becky really wants to go on that field trip. Lazy pizza delivery guy is a totally different story than thyroid problem pizza delivery guy or working two jobs pizza delivery guy.

 

I think it is very telling that a thread about how a woman is bothered by the fact that he totally healthy weight elicits comments about how lazy fat people are. And how a comment about how an active woman who eats well is still 10 pounds above swimsuit model weight brought up comments about how she could get those 10 pounds off.

[nddb]

But you assume that everyone who is overweight is eating loads of junk food and don't have say PCOS or another condition that makes weight loss difficult.

 

 

And not everyone has these opportunities. In the US, overweight and obesity is most prevalent in low income areas and the reasons for that aren't lazyness. Low income neighborhoods are often lack access to healthy foods (just a bodega and a Mickey D's), low income neighborhoods often lack safe spaces to walk or exercise, and people who are working two jobs don't always have time to exercise or hunt down groceries.

 

I think it is pretty obvious from my posts in this thread that this is something I have training in. If a friend was talking to me about weight loss, I would encourage them to exercise and cut down on junk food. A lot of people could lose 10-20% of their weight easily.

 

But I also know enough about obesity to know that these moral judgments are shortsighted and don't address what is really going on. John and Sally might just be lazy, but you have no way to tell whether the fat guy who delivers you pizza is fat because he is lazy or if he is fat because of a thyroid condition (not the norm, but possible) or if he is fat because he works two jobs to support his kids and eats pizza everyday because it is free and Becky really wants to go on that field trip. Lazy pizza delivery guy is a totally different story than thyroid problem pizza delivery guy or working two jobs pizza delivery guy.

 

I think it is very telling that a thread about how a woman is bothered by the fact that he totally healthy weight elicits comments about how lazy fat people are. And how a comment about how an active woman who eats well is still 10 pounds above swimsuit model weight brought up comments about how she could get those 10 pounds off.

 

I think I got the gist. Nothing is ever anyone's own responsibility. Got it.

[Sphere]

I think I got the gist. Nothing is ever anyone's own responsibility. Got it.

 

Unfortunately, passing the buck has become a common trend.

 

People need to start taking responsibility for their decisions/actions.

 

It's no good gorging on unhealthy foods and then whinging about how you can't find a woman/man that wants you.

 

Yet we are constantly told "it's ok to be overweight", "it's a social norm". I believe in San Francisco, it's even celebrated somewhat?

 

Fast food is ok in moderation, a treat once in a while. And someone who said something about Salad bars and juice bars. Those places have just as many calories as KFC. An average smoothie can have nearly 1000 calories in the drink itself. I have bought a salad pot that was 496 calories, that's over 100 calories more than a Cornish Pasty, a meat & potato filled centre with pastry wrapped around it. Yet, all these foods are ok in moderation, providing you do not exceed your daily calorie allowance and importantly exercise.

 

The problem with overweight people is that they over indulge in bad foods and do very little exercise. Yet we have women who are quick to defend these people. I wonder if these said women would date an overweight person? Would they choose an overweight man over a fit and healthy man? Would these women pick Danny Devito in his prime over Robert Pattison for instance? I doubt it.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

Oh good gawd enough with the excuses already and thats coming from a overweight women who happens to be enjoying a bowl of cookie dough ice cream with magic shell chocolate sauce on top and drinking it all down with a coke!

 

Look no one is forcing this stuff down my throat and I know I prob should have chosen the fresh melon sitting in the fridge instead but I didn't will I pay for this indulgence tonight yes of course so but it was MY CHOICE..

 

I know that and I also know I will have to walk that much more tomorrow in hopes of some what making up for it.

 

I guess I can curse my sh*t genetics as I walk tomorrow as well but really were is that going to get me? eh..

[Els]

THIS. This is the whole problem. Spookie does not NEED to 'bring it to another level'. She is already at 21, the lower range of the scale, with moderate muscle mass (judging from her activities), she does not NEED to lose another 10 lbs to be a medically ideal weight! In fact, doing so would put her BMI at 19, putting her at the borderline for being underweight.

 

This is the whole question I'm putting forth.

[Sphere]

Oh good gawd enough with the excuses already and thats coming from a overweight women who happens to be enjoying a bowl of cookie dough ice cream with magic shell chocolate sauce on top and drinking it all down with a coke!

 

Look no one is forcing this stuff down my throat and I know I prob should have chosen the fresh melon sitting in the fridge instead but I didn't will I pay for this indulgence tonight yes of course so but it was MY CHOICE..

 

I know that and I also know I will have to walk that much more tomorrow in hopes of some what making up for it.

 

I guess I can curse my sh*t genetics as I walk tomorrow as well but really were is that going to get me? eh..

 

A woman can be overweight that is her choice, ultimately it is you and only you who can exercise self control. If you like over-indulging in food and are happy with your weight then more power to you. But on the same token, if are you struggling in the dating game, don't blame us men for being shallow.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

A woman can be overweight that is her choice, ultimately it is you and only you who can exercise self control. If you like over-indulging in food and are happy with your weight then more power to you. But on the same token, if are you struggling in the dating game, don't blame us men for being shallow.

Um I agree..lol

[Sphere]

Um I agree..lol

 

Fantastic. At least you aren't one of these women who have large love handles then thinks she is entitled to a hot, in shape boyfriend with ripped muscles. These types of women are the reason most sane men detest feminism.

[InceptorsRule]

Here comes the excuse train again. Where are the 3 witch sisters?

 

No doubt, making a sand-witch.

[InceptorsRule]

she's a hood rat living in a low income neighborhood

 

...this particular excuse that people who don't live in "low income neighborhoods" give for obesity bugs me.

 

I have seen plenty of people playing plenty of basketball in "low income neighborhoods" out on the playground hardtop and for some reason those guys look plenty ripped to me.

[zengirl]

Please, lets not talk about morbidly obese people here. Everyone agrees with the bottom line - obesity, as defined by a BMI > 30, is definitely unhealthy.

 

Yes, you guys don't have to get all defensive. We get that you think a size zero with protruding bones isn't sexy, either.

 

What I am talking about, is the standard that people DO consider attractive. Not size zero, but not a normal healthy weight either. I'm talking Megan Fox. I'm talking Posh Spice. You get the idea.

 

Personal story: I used to have a BMI of 18 or so back in my teens. Not due to any dieting or such - just high metabolism, I suppose, and possibly a really low allowance that led to me eating bread for lunch if I wanted to buy anything. Lots of people said I had a nice, slim figure. Nobody said anything about being underweight (for the uninitiated, a BMI of 18.5 - 24.9 is medically considered the 'normal' healthy range).

 

College came, I could afford to eat better, and I discovered a passion for food. Not binging on daily soda and fries, but simply the occasional fillet mignon in red wine, chocolate fondue with ice cream, etc. My weight rose to 115 lbs. BMI was 21.

 

You wouldn't believe the sort of response I got. My parents became ballistically obsessed about my weight, and insisted on weighing me every week before I left the country. Relatives and even friends made sidelong remarks such as, "Oh, you put on weight." "Pst, E's mom, isn't your daughter a little chubby now?" "Wow, you really filled up, eh?" No more compliments.

 

I felt sad for a while, and then realized, what the heck. I'm in the LOWER PART of the healthy BMI range, and yet to people, this isn't attractive. If a BMI of 21 is 'chubby' to some people, I shudder to think what they will consider me if I was right in the middle of the healthy range. Spare me crap about muscle mass and fat mass. The BMI was created to cater to normal people with normal muscle and fat %, not to athletes, who have their own scale. Yes, it isn't perfectly accurate, but it's a sufficiently good gauge as to whether or not someone's weight is affecting their health negatively.

 

Fortunately my bf, a medical practitioner, happily believes that as long as I'm below 25, all's good.

 

Yet evidently many, many people insist on imposing their aesthetic 'standards' on women and disguising it under the concern of 'health'. Why?

 

I agree with your last paragraph entirely, even as what I consider a thin woman.

 

Then again, at 5'3'' and 115. . . you sound like a thin woman to me too, if that's your weight. Here's what I don't get: I don't understand BMI. Or even weight, honestly. I understand dress size. If I go into a non-Juniors, non-high-end-designer store, I wear the smallest size. Thus, I consider myself thin. In a high-end store, I'm maybe the 2nd size up to allow for Audrey Hepburn thin (or crack-addict-model-thin if you prefer to diss it for some reason, though I can't stand it when people diss size 0s like they're all disgusting any more than we go around dissing people who are built larger by nature). I'm 5'5'' and while I haven't weighed myself in months, I generally fluctuate between 115-120. I'm a size 2. But I hike and such a lot, so I assume it's a "muscle weighs more than fat" conundrum if this is generally a "large" weight. I used to be around 100 pounds and I wasn't significantly smaller (it was the difference between crack-addict-model-thin for me and a size 2), except for my boobs, but that's a "started birth control" issue.

 

So, my question is: How do you think you're large if you weigh 115? Nobody is calling someone who weighs 115 large, are they? That seems. . . odd, to me.

 

I will say: When I was at my thinnest, I wasn't at all fit. I ate fast food for dinner several times a week. I couldn't walk up a flight of stairs without wheezing. No fellow ever told me my weight was unattractive, and I got hit on plenty. I probably get hit on more now, as I'm a bit curvier, but I don't think quality has changed one bit. This is what make me think the health claims are bogus.

 

My personal standard for my own fitness is: Can I walk up to my work (6 flights of stairs) each morning without feeling terribly winded? Do I feel everything I put into my body has some nutritional value? (This means I don't eat value-free snacks, even if they are low calorie, but I'll totally eat high calorie, high oil things like cheese, steak, etc, so long as they have some "good" things in them too.)

 

My personal standard for a partner's personal fitness is similar, except I don't make them do the stairs test or anything. But, you know, I want someone who can go hiking with me on occasion or whatnot. My standards for their aesthetics are separate entirely, though they do factor in. I think trying to confuse health and personality traits (like fitness, desire to work, impulse control, etc) with aesthetic weight is asinine. You can easily consider both while keeping them separate, as they are, logically.

[zengirl]

Fantastic. At least you aren't one of these women who have large love handles then thinks she is entitled to a hot, in shape boyfriend with ripped muscles. These types of women are the reason most sane men detest feminism.

 

What the hell do abs have to do with feminism?

 

Are there really girls saying to you, "I want the right to vote. . . . and screw a man with some abs!"

 

I think anyone who thinks they're "entitled" to a hot, in shape boyfriend OR girlfriend, regardless of body type, is an idiot. Nobody is entitled to the company of the opposite sex at all, let alone specific kinds.

[Sphere]

My point is that feminism has given numerous women the "entitlement complex" where they believe because they have a vagina that they are automatically entitled to whatever you want. My eldest sister is a classic example of this - she believes she is entitled to whatever she desires without any effort to work and achieve it the right way and I have met numerous women with the same attitude as her and quite frankly it stinks.

 

Numerous women think that a men should date them no matter what they look like or how they behave, yet it is perfectly acceptable for them to then reject men based on how they look or behave. It's the same with overweight women who think they're entitled to be with a man, to be loved and adored when in reality only desperate men will shack up with a fatty.

 

Tell me who do you think men find more attractive, Megan Fox or Gabourey Sidibe?

[zengirl]

My point is that feminism has given numerous women the "entitlement complex" where they believe because they have a vagina that they are automatically entitled to whatever you want. My eldest sister is a classic example of this - she believes she is entitled to whatever she desires without any effort to work and achieve it the right way and I have met numerous women with the same attitude as her and quite frankly it stinks.

 

Numerous women think that a men should date them no matter what they look like or how they behave, yet it is perfectly acceptable for them to then reject men based on how they look or behave. It's the same with overweight women who think they're entitled to be with a man, to be loved and adored when in reality only desperate men will shack up with a fatty.

 

Tell me who do you think men find more attractive, Megan Fox or Gabourey Sidibe?

 

My point is that their entitlement complexes likely have nothing to do with feminism, except maybe that they don't have to have a mate at all to live out their lives. My ability to vote, own my own property, etc, has nothing to do with who I date. . . except that, yeah, I probably wouldn't be 25 and single if I didn't have it. But if you're single AND picky AND bitter about it, you're lame. (Any gender.) I agree with you there. I've met men and women with entitlement complexes, but I think it has to do more with other attitudes, a lot of which I see in education (for instance, the emphasis on "Trying" in school sports now or spiritual beliefs that tell people that the successful people are the ones that believed the most).

 

I've seen successful AND unsuccessful people with entitlement complexes, and I find it just as ugly in both, though. I'm happy for my blessings, but I don't begrudge others their crosses. It's an entitlement complex of sorts to think that just because you are thin, fit, and attractive you are entitled to the same in a mate. (I'm not saying settle with one that isn't. I'm saying nobody is entitled to anything in dating, except perhaps human decency, honesty, etc.) The things we're entitled to in life are few and far between.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

It's the same with overweight women who think they're entitled to be with a man, to be loved and adored when in reality only desperate men will shack up with a fatty.

 

Every one deserves to be loved now that isent the same as saying they deserve some one who is out of their league my bf had 2 women after him me and another "thin" girl and guess what he chose me.

 

So I think your theory of only desperate men shack up with "fatties" is quite flawed more like a personal opinion at best. If fat women are not your cup of tea then hey good on ya but some men actually do prefer us.. Do I think I deserve a male model no of course not do I believe I deserve love of course so.

[Sphere]

Every one deserves to be loved now that isent the same as saying they deserve some one who is out of their league my bf had 2 women after him me and another "thin" girl and guess what he chose me.

 

So I think your theory of only desperate men shack up with "fatties" is quite flawed more like a personal opinion at best. If fat women are not your cup of tea then hey good on ya but some men actually do prefer us.. Do I think I deserve a male model no of course not do I believe I deserve love of course so.

 

You miss my point, no deserves or is entitled to anything, which is why I appreciate everything in my life, both good and bad and I am better for my experiences.

 

Also without meaning to sound offensive, I've never understood those men who chubby chase fatties. Never understood it all, to me it's a mark of desperation.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

You miss my point, no deserves or is entitled to anything, which is why I appreciate everything in my life, both good and bad and I am better for my experiences.

 

Also without meaning to sound offensive, I've never understood those men who chubby chase fatties. Never understood it all, to me it's a mark of desperation.

 

Well as I said thats your view and I will respect that I think thats truly the key "respect" its when we start seeing a cirtin kind of people as almost non human that we lose our respect for them.

 

I bet if we met in real life we wouldn't even be having a conversation as you would judge me 1st with out listing to what kind of person I am or what I may have to add to a intelligent conversation.

 

You would see my weight only and automatically discount me but to think like that only limits ones self in the end. My partner picked me because we got on well and had similar interests that was more important to him then just looks.

 

I guess he must be attracted to me as well after all I don't believe you can date some one with out some level of attraction. I am the 1st overweight person hes dated so its not that he "chases" us in general he just saw me for the person I am not just the number on a scale it can happen.

[djhall]

THIS. This is the whole problem. Spookie does not NEED to 'bring it to another level'. She is already at 21, the lower range of the scale, with moderate muscle mass (judging from her activities), she does not NEED to lose another 10 lbs to be a medically ideal weight! In fact, doing so would put her BMI at 19, putting her at the borderline for being underweight.

 

This is the whole question I'm putting forth.

No, Spookie does not need to lose another 10 lbs or 'bring it to another level' to be a medically ideal weight. She may, however, want to for aesthetic or fitness reasons. Of course, she may also be perfectly happy exactly where she is.

 

It seems like you are trying to make a 'medically ideal' the standard for all weight considerations including atheletic an aesthetic.

[Sphere]

No, I wouldn't ignore you or treat you as inferior to me, I treat everyone with the same respect. Our relationship would be 100% platonic, because there wouldn't be an ounce of sexual attraction on my part. I'm just not into fat women. Just like there are women who aren't interested in short men, or bald men or white men or men with beards.

 

Your boyfriend likes you for you and is sexually attracted to you, that's great and that's fantastic, but I'm sure if you asked him "would you rather sleep with Megan Fox or Nikki Blonsky?" He'll lie and will say "Of course Nikki, I would never be seen with Megan Fox", what he really desires is Megan Fox. Now, I don't, can't stand the wretch, but I'm showing you how men operate and how men think.

 

Men are just as complex as women are, believe me.