He hasn't said he loves me

[zengirl]

I was less afraid of being alone when I was in my twenties. I had time to see how relationships panned out, and if a guy didn't love me there were other options. But since I started approaching 30 I got increasingly worried; even more so since I turned 30. My shelf life for having marriage and kids is increasingly growing shorter, and guys who previously used to date similar aged women such as myself now want younger girls. The pool of single, childless, never-married men is constantly shrinking, and I'm increasingly meeting the sort of men I don't want to date; i.e. men with ex-wives and kids, or men who aren't successful or attractive. I've been looking for over a decade and I still haven't found the right guy, and time just seems to be running out. I don't have patience with relationships any more; I'm tired of waiting, it seems like I've done nothing else my whole life except wait. I've been alone forever and I really don't want to be alone any more.

 

My bf is actually a good catch. He's younger, wealthier, more socially active, and very handsome; he has a good career and no baggage. He's one of the smartest and most interesting guys I've ever met; he's kind and decent and extremely good in bed. I sometimes question what someone so wonderful is even doing with me; I don't feel very secure at all, and I'm really not sure why he isn't dating someone better than me. I feel like expecting him to love me and stick with me is really expecting too much; nobody has ever stuck with me, and I was younger and a better catch back then.

 

Yeah, this is the stuff you need to work on. My Mom was way younger when she met and married a lousy fellow (my Dad; good enough Dad; crap husband of epic proportions who married her to get out of his parents' house; lovely marriage, right?), but she met a perfectly amazing (younger! richer! more attractive! And certainly kinder!) fellow years later, with a failed marriage, 10 extra years, tons of baggage, and a small child. . . So, I never buy into the whole "If it doesn't happen to you by Such-and-Such, it never will" thing. I consider myself lucky to have seen this, and I understand many have only seen the fearful situations. I just think seeing 30 and this shelf life thing as this BIG ISSUE (I'm not saying it doesn't weigh in at all) isn't helping you, nor is putting yourself down this way.

 

Re-read this. Would you want anyone else to talk about you like this? No? Then: Why do you talk about yourself this way?

 

Working on these fears and insecurities can only help you with your boyfriend or others. I'm not attacking you for them----they're mostly natural----but they are more than just "The way things are." You're creating them.

Edited August 9, 2010 by zengirl

[Pink Cupcakes]

I would back off a bit and make him miss you a while. Don't be as quick to pick up the phone or respond to his texts. If he asks to go out, have other plans with girlfriends. Perhaps stop providing him with sex every time he wants it.

He is sensing that he is the center of your life and he is losing interest. That is why he hasn't said ILY yet.

You need to recapture the magic by spending time focusing on your life and not sitting around thinking about him and his life all the time, and if he loves you.

[Ruby Slippers]

I simply can't take the relationship seriously until he says it.

So don't.

 

In my opinion, a woman is very foolish to get too serious with a guy who's too scared, burned, tentative, careful, or whatever to say I love you. All that baggage has nothing to do with you, so don't carry a single piece of it for him by worrying about it.

 

Saying those words and meaning them communicates a certain degree of commitment. Until he does that, he does not have my heart.

 

I totally agree with Pink Cupcakes. Start spending more time living your life that has nothing to do with him -- your own interests, time with friends, fun out on the town without him.

 

I have never taken a relationship too seriously before the guy says I love you. Before that point, it's great sex and good fun. If we get to about 4-6 months and he hasn't said it, I naturally start to lose interest. It's never gotten to the breaking point for me, but I imagine that at a certain point, with no I love you, I would just move on. Why waste my time with someone who doesn't love me or is too chickensh*t to say it?

[spookie]

I would back off a bit and make him miss you a while. Don't be as quick to pick up the phone or respond to his texts. If he asks to go out, have other plans with girlfriends. Perhaps stop providing him with sex every time he wants it.

He is sensing that he is the center of your life and he is losing interest. That is why he hasn't said ILY yet.

You need to recapture the magic by spending time focusing on your life and not sitting around thinking about him and his life all the time, and if he loves you.

 

You are so wise sometimes.

 

He may be taking her a little bit for granted.

 

Even if not, focusing on her on life would wonders in making HER happier and less stressed and emanating more the kind of vibe that has people saying, "I love you!"

[cloudsovernyc]

The moment you feel it, find a special time and place and say it. If you wait for him its not gunna happen. If you think your taking man's job away, your not. He may not be saying it in fear of you not being on the same page.

[Eeyore79]

The moment you feel it, find a special time and place and say it. If you wait for him its not gunna happen. If you think your taking man's job away, your not. He may not be saying it in fear of you not being on the same page.

I don't think I should say it to him, especially because we already had an argument because I said something that sounded a little bit too loving, to close to ILY, and he freaked out. I don't want to drive him away; if he's the sort of guy that freaks out about the L-word then obviously I can't say it before he does.

 

I would back off a bit and make him miss you a while. Don't be as quick to pick up the phone or respond to his texts. If he asks to go out, have other plans with girlfriends. Perhaps stop providing him with sex every time he wants it.

This kind of feels like game playing to me. If I have to play stupid games to win his affection, I'm not sure I really want it. He probably does feel too secure in the relationship, because I do answer texts straight away (not just to him, but to anyone), and I am there whenever he wants me, and I do cook for him and provide sex whenever he wants it. But to me that's just common decency and behaving how you're supposed to behave in a relationship with someone you care about. Maybe I should back off a little, though I don't really want to because it seems childish to mess around like that.

 

In my opinion, a woman is very foolish to get too serious with a guy who's too scared, burned, tentative, careful, or whatever to say I love you.

Saying those words and meaning them communicates a certain degree of commitment. Until he does that, he does not have my heart.

Yes, I know, I know. But it's difficult to spend so much time with someone, to see how decent and smart and generally wonderful they are, and still prevent yourself from falling in love with them. I'm trying really hard not to love him, but it's increasingly difficult, to the extent where I've considered dumping him because I simply can't stop myself from loving him. I feel like I care too much about him given that he hasn't said he loves me, and I can't make him love me so somehow I have to love him less.

[zengirl]

Get some emotional distance. It will do wonders for you. Do whatever you have to do to get it---do something in your own life that consumes you. Right now, your mind isn't clear enough to "do" anything productive.

 

But, no, you can't make him love you. And maybe he never will. And you can force the issue for your own closure, if closure is the most important thing to you. If it is, then he isn't the fellow for you anyway. At this stage, it is a bit early for this to be a huge issue, though. I never understand dumping someone because you're into them. If you do dump him, dump him because he's not making you happy. . . not because you like him too much!

[Eeyore79]

But, no, you can't make him love you. And maybe he never will.

Hence why I feel like I'm wasting my time - because he doesn't love me, and given that a good few months have passed, maybe he never will. So maybe I should just cut my losses and run.

 

I never understand dumping someone because you're into them. If you do dump him, dump him because he's not making you happy. . . not because you like him too much!

He isn't making me happy, because he doesn't love me. It makes me incredibly unhappy that I love someone who doesn't love me back. Sure, he's kind and fun and great in bed, and he sent me candy and flowers, and took me to meet his parents, but it all just seems empty because he doesn't love me. There's no emotion backing up his actions; it's like he's just going through the motions.

 

Since various people have said that 4-5 months isn't really very long, I'm inclined to give it a little longer. But if I haven't heard ILY by the end of the year, I'm just going to dump him because this relationship is a waste of my time.

[meerkat stew]

Good, that means you're an emotionally healthy person at your core and not someone who wants to be jerked around. That will help.

 

Oh please, just found this little inanity. Most people, male or female, don't freak out if they haven't heard ILY at the four month mark. No idea as to OP's emotional health, but if she keeps letting things like this bother her unduly in a relationship that is going fine otherwise, the emotional health she has now will surely erode over time and likely cause her to lose her BF to boot.

 

Maintaining some mystery in a relationship and not saying things you don't mean until you are totally sure and good and ready has -nothing- to do with jerking people around. In fact, I'm pretty sure that more jerking around is done in relationships via false, manipulative professions of love too soon than holding off awhile. Strike that "pretty sure," I'm -absolutely certain- of it.

[Eeyore79]

I think the issue is that we're just different types of people. He's cautious and takes the L-word very seriously, while I'm a head-in-the-clouds romantic type of person who could happily profess love after a couple of weeks. I have been known to declare my undying love after two weeks and dump the same guy at the three month mark; I once got engaged after five months and dumped the guy a couple of months later.

 

My past doesn't help matters; I need constant reassurance that someone cares about me, otherwise I tend to assume they don't care and will abandon me. I also tend to see ILY as merely an expression of what I'm feeling, not as any sort of commitment to be with someone. I am terrified of being alone, and I often feel extremely lonely. Perhaps I'm not emotionally healthy

[pandagirl]

I think there is too much weight being put on the ILY.

 

Four months isn't very long. Two of my friends who are married didn't say ILY in their respective relationships until the year mark. A part of that is because they were youngish when they met their husbands, and didn't even really think about marriage or long-term at that point in their lives. They were just kind of going with the flow and not thinking about the future. That future just happened to end up with them married to those boyfriends!

 

I would put your worrying on the back burner for a couple more months. At six months, you can revisit and have a more clear vision of what you want with this guy.

[InceptorsRule]

I think the issue is that we're just different types of people. He's cautious and takes the L-word very seriously,

 

That's "maturity." Good for him.

 

 

 

while I'm a head-in-the-clouds romantic type of person who could happily profess love after a couple of weeks.

 

Not so good. I can absolutely see why the bf is being very cautious about this. Your attitude towards love sounds kind of flaky.

 

 

 

I have been known to declare my undying love after two weeks and dump the same guy at the three month mark; I once got engaged after five months and dumped the guy a couple of months later.

 

I assume your bf knows of this relationship history. Why would you expect a rational, mature man not to have serious doubts about your ability to commit with baggage like this?

 

As a matter of fact, in one of your posts you've admitted you're not ready for a commitment. Yet you fault the bf for equating "love" with "commitment." Why should he declare love to you if you're not ready to commit?

 

 

My past doesn't help matters; I need constant reassurance that someone cares about me, otherwise I tend to assume they don't care and will abandon me.

 

This sounds extremely neurotic. The only thing the bf has done to give you reason to doubt is not saying "I love you," except you admit you're not ready to commit to him and your history shows that the "word" love is not something you have always taken very seriously.

 

 

I also tend to see ILY as merely an expression of what I'm feeling, not as any sort of commitment to be with someone. I am terrified of being alone, and I often feel extremely lonely. Perhaps I'm not emotionally healthy

 

Perhaps.

[Pink Cupcakes]

Since you stated that he freaked out when you said something close to I Love You, he doesn't love you. Guys who love you don't freak out over things like that.

I would seriously just dump him. You said you provided sex at his command, well, guys will fake feelings and keep a relationship going just to keep the sex going on until they meet someone else.

[meerkat stew]

I have been known to declare my undying love after two weeks and dump the same guy at the three month mark;

 

This is exactly why lots of people are gunshy about early declarations of love and make damn sure it's real before they say it or are open to really hearing it. It used to be a prelude to a marriage proposal or at least a serious, long-term commitment. Today it's just a "feelgood" mantra that has lost most of its meaning. Once you get past words as indicative of someone's true feelings, and focus on their actions towards you, then you start to build true emotional health.

[yah]

I'd be cautious that he seems to repel the L-word or anything 'mushy' that YOU say. That seems a bit odd for a man who has been in relationships previously, does he not expect you to express how YOU feel about him?

 

That said, I think its a little unfair to expect him to say the L-word at 4-5 months. How well do you know each other after such a short time? I didn't feel the urge to say ILY to my bf until 8-9 months in, and even then I questioned it. I'm still questioning how I define the word. SO hasn't said it to me either; it'll be 1 year next month. It's OK though b/c we probably define the word differently than you and with each other. SO takes it very seriously too. I feel that when he's ready to say it, it would mean our relationship is rock-solid, so to speak. Maybe your bf 'learned his lesson' from previous relationships and now feels the same way? Who knows? You might want to give it a bit more time and then ask him where he sees the relationship is going. I think that would be the 'make it or break it' talk.

[cloudsovernyc]

I don't think I should say it to him, especially because we already had an argument because I said something that sounded a little bit too loving, to close to ILY, and he freaked out. I don't want to drive him away; if he's the sort of guy that freaks out about the L-word then obviously I can't say it before he does.

 

Wow, just wow.... honestly I would just say ily, if he gets upset about it leave his ass.

[shadowplay]

I have a bad feeling about this guy. I agree with the others that 4-5 months without saying ILY isn't a big deal.

 

But I don't think that's why you're upset. I think you're picking up on something else in his overall commitment or affection for you, and seizing on his inability to say ILY as the source of your insecurity.

 

What worries me is how you described his extreme reaction when you said something that sounded too loving. He sounds bitter and loaded with baggage.

 

Be very cautious, and don't expect things to change.

[meerkat stew]

OP, please check out this link, have been trying to come up with the term "limerence" since reading your OP, and finally did. The feelings you describe in the thread are textbook limerent response. Maybe understanding the origins of the feelings, their cause, may make them easier for you to cope and deal with. Hope this helps.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerence

[SteveC80]

Too many women like the op try to force love,women are fed that romantic fall in love fairytale story and any guy they have some feelings for they try to force that ideal fantasy

 

You cant force love

 

Plus am i the only one that finds it odd that posters pointing fingers at the boyfriend for being rationale and not telling somebody he doesnt know if he loves yet I love You then the OP admitted to dumping guys she told she love and not really fully meaning it

 

What am i missing here?

Edited August 10, 2010 by SteveC80

[meerkat stew]

You cant force love

 

Sometimes I think they want to be lied to without caring whether there is any truth underneath the words at all, that they just want the words themselves, not sincerity, not the man's heart, just the words. That's kind of a terrifying thought.

[SteveC80]

Sometimes I think they want to be lied to without caring whether there is any truth underneath the words at all, that they just want the words themselves, not sincerity, not the man's heart, just the words. That's kind of a terrifying thought.

 

Exactly its such a magic word to women that they need to hear it even if it rigns shallow,actions should be more important thenwords

 

What does love mean anwyay? Is there a difference between love and really really really like mixed with lust mixed the social pressure to get married and have kids?

 

50% of marriages fail anyway so apparently u can easily fall out of this magic word

[D-Lish]

Hence why I feel like I'm wasting my time - because he doesn't love me, and given that a good few months have passed, maybe he never will. So maybe I should just cut my losses and run.

 

 

He isn't making me happy, because he doesn't love me. It makes me incredibly unhappy that I love someone who doesn't love me back. Sure, he's kind and fun and great in bed, and he sent me candy and flowers, and took me to meet his parents, but it all just seems empty because he doesn't love me. There's no emotion backing up his actions; it's like he's just going through the motions.

 

Since various people have said that 4-5 months isn't really very long, I'm inclined to give it a little longer. But if I haven't heard ILY by the end of the year, I'm just going to dump him because this relationship is a waste of my time.

 

 

There is ACTION backing it up though. Real action present. He sends flowers and takes you to meet his parents! Meeting the parents is pretty heavy, no?

 

Chalk it up to he's just not ready to say it.

 

I believe 4 months is so short to know if you love someone or not. If he's been burned, he's being rightfully cautious.

 

Never push that L-word moment. In fact, I believe that the more you take the emphasis off of it now, the better your relationship will be in the future.

 

When he does drop the L-bomb, it will be all the more meaningful if he does so without any pressure.

Edited August 10, 2010 by D-Lish

[InceptorsRule]

There is ACTION backing it up though. Real action present. He sends flowers and takes you to meet his parents! Meeting the parents is pretty heavy, no?

 

Chalk it up to he's just not ready to say it.

 

I believe 4 months is so short to know if you love someone or not. If he's been burned, he's being rightfully cautious.

 

Never push that L-word moment. In fact, I believe that the more you take the emphasis off of it now, the better your relationship will be in the future.

 

When he does drop the L-bomb, it will be all the more meaningful if he does so without any pressure.

 

 

It's pretty obvious that he doesn't want to say "I Love You" precisely because OP's pattern in past relationships is to lose interest in the guy she's with as soon as, or soon after, that non-event occurs. This has happened to this guy several times before (or something similar) where he's given his heart to similarly extremely neurotic women and then gotten back-stabbed.

 

It actually sounds like the two of them are each cycling through repeating types of dysfunctional relationships, running in place.

 

Look at some of OP's posts in this thread. She's looking for excuses to back out of the relationship already, even though as you point out, this guy is apparently doing all the ACTIONS indicating he has a very serious intent/love interest in her. She's already stated she doesn't equate a profession of mutual love as equivalent to a real commitment. To her "I Love You" is just words.

 

OP has a very immature of what "love" is. She talks about stifling her own feelings of love for this guy because she doesn't want to let herself fall in love with him, yet she wants him--not to actually love her, just to say the words "I Love You." How shallow can someone be?

 

She needs to grow to the point where she is able to let HERSELF both feel and have the ability to express love for another individual in a relationship, understanding that those feelings might not be reciprocated. To get love from someone else, you have to be able to show it and model it. She's afraid to say "I Love You" because the guy freaks out. Well yes because after she says that to a guy she dumps him soon after.

 

And why doesn't she want to commit to this guy, yet she is so wrapped up in getting the words "I love you"? What's that all about?

 

It's all so neurotic, pointless and silly. Such a waste of time and energy.

 

At a certain point a person has to put themselves out there and take a risk to move a relationship forward, but first you have to decide that you do want it to move forward. First things first.

 

The first thing OP has to do is not seek meaningless "I Love Yous" from her bf, but make an actual, real commitment to the relationship, which she has expressly not been willing to do. She must commit in her own mind that yes this is the guy for her and she is willing to go through hell or high water for him. If she's unwilling to do this then she has no right to ask for an "I Love You." Ridiculous, the nerve of some people.

 

If this is NOT a guy to whom she is willing to commit, then she shouldn't be looking for silly excuses to break up with him, she should just move on.

 

She's said she thinks he doesn't even love her which I think is rather absurdly insecure given the description of his actions. Guys of that age don't take women to visit their parents unless they are VERY serious about the woman. As in what they are doing is displaying the woman to the parents as possible "wifey" material.

 

Rather than focusing her energy on positive ways to improve the communication and expression of emotion in the relationship, to the point where both might be able to exchange sincere "I Love Yous" at the appropriate time and when secure enough to do so, OP's ENTIRE FOCUS is on an apparently obsessive and highly neurotic negativity.

 

The bf senses it, senses OP's neurotic ambivalence, obviously, and doesn't really understand or trust all this baggage this seemingly wonderful girl is carrying. He's been burned before so it's understandable.

 

This assumes that OP actually likes the bf and sees a future with him. If she doesn't the entire situation is pointless and she should break up with him rather than torment herself over whether or not she gets an "I Love You" from someone that she doesn't even want to be with.

[Eeyore79]

Thanks for all the advice. I am really trying to work through my feelings and be more emotionally healthy, and this discussion is helping a lot. I realise that issues in my past have affected my emotional health, and I really want to try to get this relationship right.

 

I assume your bf knows of this relationship history.

He roughly knows my relationship history. Those things I mentioned happened years ago, and my last serious relationship turned out really badly; I was on my own for two years trying to sort my head out. Perhaps I'm still not quite there.

 

As a matter of fact, in one of your posts you've admitted you're not ready for a commitment. Yet you fault the bf for equating "love" with "commitment." Why should he declare love to you if you're not ready to commit?

I guess what I want from him is "I care about you and won't just abandon you" rather than a promise of marriage or anything. I think we would have to date for longer than a few months before we could be 100% certain about a legal lifetime commitment, but I'm happy to commit in the sense that he's the most wonderful guy I've ever met and I want to stay with him and make him happy.

 

You said you provided sex at his command, well, guys will fake feelings and keep a relationship going just to keep the sex going on until they meet someone else.

I'm not so sure about this. If he wanted to string me along, he could easily just say the words to keep me sweet, and he wouldn't introduce me to his parents etc. Not to mention it's a bit of a trek from my place to his, and it costs him quite a bit of money and effort to see me; he could find a FWB closer to home.

 

I'd be cautious that he seems to repel the L-word or anything 'mushy' that YOU say. That seems a bit odd for a man who has been in relationships previously, does he not expect you to express how YOU feel about him?

This is what concerns me. He's admitted he loved a couple of exes, and told them so, but those relationships only lasted about six months. That means he was saying ILY to them well before the six month mark, but he isn't saying it to me. Maybe he's being more cautious after being burned; I don't know.

 

I think you're picking up on something else in his overall commitment or affection for you, and seizing on his inability to say ILY as the source of your insecurity.

What worries me is how you described his extreme reaction when you said something that sounded too loving. He sounds bitter and loaded with baggage.

When I said something that sounded too loving, he said it was too early in the relationship (only a couple of months in) and he wanted to be sure I wasn't saying something that he couldn't reciprocate yet, because to him "love" is a serious commitment thing. He isn't overly affectionate though; he isn't all kissy and huggy when we're together, and I always seem to text him first, and then he takes a while to reply even though I know he's permanently attached to his cellphone. He's not particularly emotional, and he rarely says anything romantic beyond texting me kisses. But he took me to meet his parents and friends, and took me away on a trip, and sent me candy and flowers, and calls me every day... his actions just seem mismatched with his lack of emotional expression.

 

It's pretty obvious that he doesn't want to say "I Love You" precisely because OP's pattern in past relationships is to lose interest in the guy she's with as soon as, or soon after, that non-event occurs.

He doesn't know the specifics of when and where I said ILY, and how long afterwards I broke up wth that person. He isn't saying it because he isn't feeling it, period.

 

She's looking for excuses to back out of the relationship already, even though as you point out, this guy is apparently doing all the ACTIONS indicating he has a very serious intent/love interest in her.

I am not looking for excuses to back out. I want to be in this relationship, but it makes me very nervous when I'm crazy about him and he doesn't express any emotion in return.

 

she wants him--not to actually love her, just to say the words "I Love You."

Well that's just silly. Of course I want him to love me and not just say it.

 

She needs to grow to the point where she is able to let HERSELF both feel and have the ability to express love for another individual in a relationship, understanding that those feelings might not be reciprocated.

Anyone who feels and expresses love for someone who doesn't reciprocate is just dumb, and is asking to be hurt.

 

And why doesn't she want to commit to this guy, yet she is so wrapped up in getting the words "I love you"? What's that all about?

I'm not silly enough to make a legal commitment after a few months. That doesn't mean I'm not totally committed to being with him and trying my best to make him happy.

 

I've thought about this really hard, and I think what I'm afraid of is that I'll love him and he won't love me back, and will dump me. On the couple of occasions I've felt love, that's what's happened every time. I obviously have abandonment issues due to beng dumped before; I'm a very lonely person in general, I rarely meet someone I connect with and I'd be absolutely destroyed if he dumped me. I have low self esteem; he's wonderful and I almost expect him to dump me, because why would someone like him want to be with someone like me? I want to be more emotionally healthy and hopefully make this relationship work, but I really have no idea how to fix my brain

[Sphere]

Why do people put a time scale on these things? If he's with you, if he's happy and is into you and shows this through action why does anyone need to hear those three words?

 

I happen to think that "I love you" are three most abused words in the English language. They've been bandied about more than Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream. I also happen to think it is highly selfish to force someone's hand on this. Just because you "love" him, doesn't mean that he is obliged to feel the same way as you do.

 

I just cannot understand why women need to hear this as soon as they're exclusive with a man. If you treats you right, treats you well and makes you happier then shouldn't those things rank higher than those three words?

 

Maybe I'm emotionally wooden, but I don't need to be told by a woman that she loves me. I judge people by their actions, not by what they say. Talk is cheap at the end of the day. And someone saying "I love you" is cheap, the only way you can determine whether or not they love you is by their actions.