Am I destined for loneliness?

[nyr81]

So, I'm 29 years old and becoming increasingly depressed. I've never had a girlfriend though I will be honestly that there was a period in my life after college until about 2-3 years ago that I wasn't really making an effort to find a girl for me.

 

So about two years ago I figured I would try online dating. My buddy met his fiance on the site so I decided to give it a shot. I'm usually not one to approach girls at bars, clubs, etc.. So I figured this would be just another way to try to meet women.

 

Its been two years using this online site and if I counted correctly I have had dates with 26 different women (most from online but a few were from personal encounters). Sadly enough, I have not moved beyond a third date with any of these women. As I keep trying to find that someone the fear of rejection just becomes deeper and deeper. I don't understand what it is that I am doing wrong. The interest level from most of these women seemed high and then nothing. Its hard to tell if I come on too strong or not strong enough. When It is seems one approach doesn't work, I switch to the other, but to no avail.

 

As I approach 30 and I'm seeing my friends one by one get engaged or married, it makes me feel like **** knowing that they've found happiness yet it seems to be something that keeps escaping me. Some of my friends seem to be able to find a girlfriend within the first few girls they start dating yet it is so difficult for me.

 

I know it hard to look at yourself in the mirror and say "you're doing this and that wrong" so I thought maybe if I opened this up to a non-biased audience that I might find some answers.

[ConflictedGuy27]

well for starters, we can rule out your looks as an issue. if you have such a hang up about how you look, please throw that right out the window.

 

26 dates in 2 years is more than one date a month, which to some may seem low, but I say quality over quantity. moreover, you've gotten to a third date with several women, which also says to me looks aren't a problem and you're able to keep at least short term interest alive.

 

I'm curious what you learn about the women you've dated. what do they want? why are they dating? do your respective reasons mesh in that regard? where do you take your dates?

 

I'm wondering what your dates have in common, specifically if theres a pattern where the breakdown typically happens.

[MyNameIsJonas]

As I keep trying to find that someone the fear of rejection just becomes deeper and deeper.

 

This is your problem. Fear of rejection always manifests itself into negative actions and women, especially quality women, see these actions and run away at the first sign. My guess is that you haven't gotten beyond date 3 with these women because you convince yourself that you will be rejected, build up a wall, and basically set yourself up for failure before you even fail.

 

I know this is easier said than done but you have to stop caring about rejection. It took me a couple years to achieve this but once you realize that there is nothing wrong with you and some relationships just don't work out it will do wonders for your confidence, which in turn, will do wonders for your dating scene.

[nyr81]

I'm not hung up on my looks. I will say though, my appearance may scare away some women bc i have a birthmark on my forehead.

 

Also, only one date went to a third, not multiple.

 

I usually don't try to get into those questions that you pose early on. I'm just looking to have a good time to see if there is chemistry there. I never ask why they joined the online site, but some have and I answer truthfully, that I'm looking for a long term relationship.

 

It seems kind of early to ask a girl on first/second date what they want and why they're dating? no?

 

Usually the first date is for a drink at a bar or restaurant. Maybe dinner on a second. Other times I've gone hiking with them on a second date, movies, amusement park.

 

As far as what they all have in common I can't really say. I don't have a preference blonde or brunette. Some were teachers, nurses, writers.. Some were into sports, some not. So I can't say there is a definite commonality.

 

As for the breakdown that I'm at a loss with. Usually, I'll ask for a date they'll say yes then text that they had something come up. My response to that is always (via text)..for them to give me a call when they would like to reschedule. To put the ball in their court. And of course, I never hear from them.

[nyr81]

Hey jonas..

 

Honestly, I really don't show my fear of rejection. I almost wonder if its a thing of moving too fast that becomes my problem. I'm initiated the physical part, which is sometimes why I wonder if I have to let them initiate first. Like I said when I dated (if you want to call it that) as a late teen and in my early twenties at college the stuff just kind of happened. Friends hanging out with friends turning into something.

 

But since I've now made an effort to really get out there, I feel like I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing.

[ConflictedGuy27]

Also, only one date went to a third, not multiple.

 

This is good information. So we know that your first dates aren't too great; and/or the method by which you're setting them up is already rocky to begin with and they're just giving it a shot in the dark.

 

I usually don't try to get into those questions that you pose early on. I'm just looking to have a good time to see if there is chemistry there. I never ask why they joined the online site, but some have and I answer truthfully, that I'm looking for a long term relationship.

 

It seems kind of early to ask a girl on first/second date what they want and why they're dating? no?

 

I wouldn't bring up why they joined the site; there's no need for that, IMO. I think that its a great idea to ask why they're dating as it may lead to information you could use to make a second date happen.

 

What will happen if you ask that question is a woman will in turn ask you. Use this opportunity to create some interest about you; the things you like to do and how you're looking for someone that likes to either try new things, or already enjoys the things you do.

 

No woman wouldn't inquire as to what those things are. If she does one of those activities and/or she finds one that she may like to try in the future, you could tenatively agree to maybe do that together in the future.

 

As for the breakdown that I'm at a loss with. Usually, I'll ask for a date they'll say yes then text that they had something come up. My response to that is always (via text)..for them to give me a call when they would like to reschedule. To put the ball in their court. And of course, I never hear from them.

 

Be assured then that the breakdown is taking place on the first date, whatever it is. What do you talk about on the first date? Are you a good story teller? Do you notice any body language patterns in the women you date? e.g. can you tell when they're not interested and its time to change subjects? do you see arms folded, looking around the room?

 

Can you identify the signals that show she's genuinely interested in whatever topic? do tell.

[nyr81]

Well of course on the first date we talk about our interests. I gauge her interests as well to decide what to do on a second date.

 

As far as a good story teller? lol. IDK. I try to let her do most of the talking about herself. As they say its better that the guy doesn't "brag" about himself and to let the girl do more of the talking?

 

Sure, as far as body language I think I'm pretty keen. Only with a few of these women did I really see that she had no interest at all. And obviously it ended on the first date. Most dates are getting to the second date. I think it is here that I'm in a state of flux (i.e. deciding whether to go for a kiss or not).

 

I would say that most topics she is interested in. They like my stories that I have from school (I'm a teacher).

 

It almost seems like after the second date they are unsure about me and then decide to cut it off.

[nyr81]

Idk..maybe I need to take a real long break from this for a while. Try at it at some other point in time

[MyNameIsJonas]

But since I've now made an effort to really get out there, I feel like I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing.

 

First off, no one has any real idea as to what they are "doing" with dating. Guys who say they know what they are doing are full of it, and women who judge men based on any set "system" are worthless. Take the pressure off of yourself.

 

Well of course on the first date we talk about our interests. I gauge her interests as well to decide what to do on a second date.

 

As far as a good story teller? lol. IDK. I try to let her do most of the talking about herself. As they say its better that the guy doesn't "brag" about himself and to let the girl do more of the talking?

 

Sure, as far as body language I think I'm pretty keen. Only with a few of these women did I really see that she had no interest at all. And obviously it ended on the first date. Most dates are getting to the second date. I think it is here that I'm in a state of flux (i.e. deciding whether to go for a kiss or not).

 

I would say that most topics she is interested in. They like my stories that I have from school (I'm a teacher).

 

It almost seems like after the second date they are unsure about me and then decide to cut it off.

 

This is going to slightly contradict my earlier statement but this is just advice so take it for what it is. This is all my "system" and I won't even begin to state that I know what I am doing.

 

I guess my first question would be what exactly do you do with women on the second/third dates? Are you the traditional dinner/drinks/movies type of person? If so, stop. A happy hour is a good first date idea but beyond that, I wouldn't do it unless it's a "spur-of-the-moment" endpoint to a larger-scale date. I only do movies if I want to see a movie and can't find anyone else, and I only do dinners if I judge the girl to be legit (minimum 5 dates before the dinner).

 

My approach to dates beyond the initial one is taking things that I enjoy and asking if she would like to come along. Do you live near a zoo or some sort of other public (and free) area? That is always a great idea because you are outside, its safe for her, and you aren't spending much more than squat, so it weeds out the freeloader-ettes. I also play golf so when I run across a women who plays golf, or would like to learn, I take her to the driving range.

 

Too many people focus on the "system" of dating and forget that above all else, its all about having fun.

Edited August 9, 2010 by MyNameIsJonas
donkey

[jadedone]

#1. ditch the bars, coffee houses, and restaurants as first dates. those are places you pick up women not meet them for a date.

 

#2 first dates should be an activity like bowling, shooting pool, mini-golf, when you are almost down bowling etc. it is then okay to ask if they are hungry and then go to a restaurant.

 

#3. Don't turn the date into an interview or question and answer session. Talk about stuff that shows your personality, be playful, tease them a little. Tell stories, and get them to tell stories. NOT stories about their exes or dating exploits.

 

 

 

Example: If I go on a date with a women in her late 20's I will ask her about her feelings about the big 3-0 coming up. This gets a lot of great response and insight into her personality. Many of them dread that milestone birthday and I tease them about it.

[nyr81]

I'll take some of these suggestions. Though, dates to a driving range, bowling, mini golf I kind of see as something that teenagers do. I think the first date for drinks is the best icebreaker environment for the first date.

 

Any female perspectives?

[nyr81]

In addition to my last inquiries, just wonder if any women out there are really still looking for quality guys to pick them up at bars. From what I'm seeing this is a thing of the past.

[zengirl]

I've met decent, regular fellows in bars, but it depends on the bar. I tend to hang at artsy off-center bars where the people who don't like clubs go to play pool, darts, etc, and listen to pretentious indie music. That's my type, I guess. I usually have friends at these places, and it's more a comfortable scene than say a mobbed club. I have met a decent fellow on occasion at a mobbed club, but that was in my early early twenties.

 

I don't see anything "high school" about the types of dates listed, but go with something that's comfortable to YOU and fits you as a person. Really, a lot of what works for you in the nitty gritty -- the where, how, etc, of the dates themselves -- is going to be determined by (a) Who you are and (b) What kind of girl you're looking for.

 

I'm going to take a wild stab and say you don't even know what kind of girl you're really looking for. . . just the vibe I get here. That can be an issue. Though as a teacher, you ought to be pretty good at reflection. It is one of the Best Practices in most states! Apply some of that to your dating life. Open, honest, but kind (not-beating-the-****-out-of-yourself!) reflection is key to dating success when you've had a bad streak like this, I think.

 

You cannot possibly have liked all these girls and had them decide they didn't want to go out with you again. Mostly, I imagine you were going out with them to see what you liked. And get somewhere. Since you're feeling lost. The best thing to do is sort of figure out what you want -- I'm not talking about some stringent list of requirements, but targeting a few types helps hone the process in general for one, and also focusing on what YOU want makes the rejection sting less. You're making it all about everyone wanting to go out with you; well, not to get all sour grapes and go too far to the other extreme, but probably all these girls weren't exactly lighting your world on fire either.

 

Be open and try, but don't have it like a position that needs to be filled. Slot-fillers suck.

 

Hey jonas..

 

Honestly, I really don't show my fear of rejection. I almost wonder if its a thing of moving too fast that becomes my problem. I'm initiated the physical part, which is sometimes why I wonder if I have to let them initiate first. Like I said when I dated (if you want to call it that) as a late teen and in my early twenties at college the stuff just kind of happened. Friends hanging out with friends turning into something.

 

But since I've now made an effort to really get out there, I feel like I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing.

 

People always say what they don't show like every bit of their psychology isn't out there to be picked up. Yeah, you show it. Maybe not consciously, but it's visible. You've got to learn that the person who makes you feel bad about rejection is you. . . nobody else causes the psychological pain of rejection. Just you.

 

I usually recommend self-work, and that's what I think really needs to be done here. Get your own mind back in order, get out there, and try again. No, you are not destined to be lonely forever. Unless you think you are.

[nyr81]

Hey zengirl,

 

Just a couple reactions to what you've said:

 

I feel that if I'm as narrow minded in my approach to exactly what type of women I'm looking for will only weaken those odds of finding that person. We cannot find the exact thing we desire in anything at live. For example, you might not get your dream job but you find something that works well for you and you feel happy with. I feel that is how it should work in a relationship. So, I will date all different types of women (they are not radically different though). Maybe I'm wrong in my thinking but there are so many people out there that say they need that instant click, that chemistry needs to be there from the onset. I guess I'm different from many when I think that a sustainable relationship is one in which chemistry is built over time.

 

It is true that not all these girls were lighting my fire. But usually I would give it a chance to see if anything develops. Of course if I wasn't attracted to some of these women I ended it after the first date. I think maybe you got the impression that I was really into every one of this women which is not the case.

 

As for the philosophical argument. I understand what you say, somewhat. But it is human nature to feel that constant rejection (while everyone around you is finding love) might come again. Its like telling the homeless man that hope is around the corner, but in reality it is most likely a false hope.

[zengirl]

Hey zengirl,

 

Just a couple reactions to what you've said:

 

I feel that if I'm as narrow minded in my approach to exactly what type of women I'm looking for will only weaken those odds of finding that person. We cannot find the exact thing we desire in anything at live. For example, you might not get your dream job but you find something that works well for you and you feel happy with. I feel that is how it should work in a relationship. So, I will date all different types of women (they are not radically different though). Maybe I'm wrong in my thinking but there are so many people out there that say they need that instant click, that chemistry needs to be there from the onset. I guess I'm different from many when I think that a sustainable relationship is one in which chemistry is built over time.

 

Aw, no, that's why I said it's not so much about making a list as it is about personal reflection. I don't have some set list, but I do know the qualities I find very attractive and the things that make someone incompatible to me. (For instance, I've learned that dating a fellow who doesn't like kids---not doesn't "want" them, as that's different, but actually thinks kids are stupid/awkward/uncomfortable---is not my cuppa. It's not that I have anything against them. They're just incompatible to me. As are a host of things.) So, I'm talking about reflection.

 

This also means you don't NEED the instant click (though it helps) because you are constantly looking for qualities you value and assessing them, but you are valuing them, placing certain qualities a bit higher than others. I'm not talking about being stringent about it. Just being reflective and proactive.

 

It is true that not all these girls were lighting my fire. But usually I would give it a chance to see if anything develops. Of course if I wasn't attracted to some of these women I ended it after the first date. I think maybe you got the impression that I was really into every one of this women which is not the case.

 

I figured you weren't. That was my point.

 

As for the philosophical argument. I understand what you say, somewhat. But it is human nature to feel that constant rejection (while everyone around you is finding love) might come again. Its like telling the homeless man that hope is around the corner, but in reality it is most likely a false hope.

 

Human nature sucks sometimes. It's not really the same as the homeless man at all, because it's all psychological. But I understand why it feels that way; really, I do. My point isn't that you'll never be rejected again. My point is that rejection itself is only so painful because you've decided it is. Some pain is always going to exist with it. . . but really, it's more like a sting once you realize that everyone gets rejected and it's you that's kicking the crap out of yourself and creating most of the pain caused by rejection. Change your mind, change your life. It's cliche but it works.

[nyr81]

Thanks, I get what you're saying.

 

Though it seems since the first few dates are just about having fun that it is difficult to assess their values (the ones that really matter at least). Then again, nothing I've done so far has worked so maybe I should change my entire approach.

 

I've also been following the "dating game rules" such as don't call for a few days to keep her guessing. Maybe I'll just scratch all the crap and do what I feel like doing.

[zengirl]

Thanks, I get what you're saying.

 

Though it seems since the first few dates are just about having fun that it is difficult to assess their values (the ones that really matter at least). Then again, nothing I've done so far has worked so maybe I should change my entire approach.

 

I've also been following the "dating game rules" such as don't call for a few days to keep her guessing. Maybe I'll just scratch all the crap and do what I feel like doing.

 

If I feel like a guy is following the rules, I drop him. But that's just me. Many girls don't. That said, a lot of the "rules" (like not calling) mostly leave a lot of room for people to lose interest or get distracted, if they're healthy, busy people. The obsessers might become more attached. . . but that's only a specific group.

 

P.S. Obviously, I'm not saying call 3 times a day and ask her out every night because that's. . . just too much. Make sure that "when you want" is a healthy normal or else work on yourself to make your overall social life better.