I've had my fun

[zengirl]

But of course, anything that benefits you and disadvantages someone else is "silly to get bitter about." You just pretty much summed up my entire gripe with female attitudes in the U.S. How about just stopping at "unfair," and leave it at that? Life isn't fair, we all know it, what is annoying is when we vent about it and are told, usually by someone who benefits by the inequity, 1. that we are bitter, and 2. that our concerns are "silly."

 

To be clear, I mean it's silly because there are benefits to each side that are different and thus impossible to weigh out either way, because it's an issue of which seems "better" or "worse" to you. Would you rather have the benefits of a man or the benefits of a woman (and all costs that come along with it)? Well, that's a silly question. . . because you've got what you've got, and really, neither is any easier or harder. It's all in how you deal with it. It's not unfair in a bias towards either gender in my view. There are things men have easier with dating and things women have easier. The ways men usually assert I have it "easier" are usually things I don't want (like I can get laid whenever I want). It's like asking for the perks of a high-powered job without the stress, or the ease of a low-stress job like being a barista or something but making 100K a year. Only it's also impossible to change, so it's extra silly.

 

I agree that any woman who finds dating "unfair" to women is equally silly. I don't think issues like workplace rules and laws should be conflated with dating. The matters are very different. I think we should strive for equality, in all ways possible, in our laws. (This means I think I should have to register with the SS like any man in America, for example, and I think men and women should get decent maternity/paternity leaves.) But there is no such thing as "equality" in dating -- gender, racial, personal, sexual, age, creed, etc.

 

It's a matter for another thread or discussion, but it sure ain't about women feeling "empowered" to do anything. Women are plenty "empowered" to do whatever they want, and have been for some decades. You can sense my feelings on the word "empowered" I bet

And yet you see threads every day like, "OMG, can I text him after a date?" or "Can I message a guy first?" When it comes do dating, the average girl does not feel empowered. I'm not putting that on men! Or even "society" (although socialization still factors in). I'm putting it on the women themselves. We need to encourage empowerment in all people, I think. I don't find it to be a gender word at all. As a teacher, I empower children: Boys and girls (not to date, obviously). I don't know why you'd dislike the word. Helping individuals find their own core of personal power, without needing to "control" things, is pretty cool, in my book. Assertive, empowered people are awesome.

 

You will likely find this amazing, but I have had several women on this site and others PM me for online dating help/advice, and the first thing I tell them is to start being proactive and mailing out, so we are in total agreement on this point.

Absolutely.

 

To clarify, have never known a thin woman with a normal social life who did not have her pick among lots of men of average and up desirability.

I have. And do. Mostly, they have deficiencies or issues in other ways (physical or internal). Thin isn't some magic ticket. I know thin, pretty girls who can't get a date to save their lives.

 

The overall point is that attractiveness, appeal to the opposite sex, for men is more a matter of genetics or luck factors than it is for women. I wasn't talking about the relative differences in body fat between men and women, but made the claim that because of the way fat is accumulated on the body, women can hold more of a deviation from the average than men and still be considered attractive. Sticking to this claim.

I disagree here, but it's not like we're ever going to agree. I think attractiveness for women is more based on genetic luck and that the "type" of attractive women is much narrower than men. There's no point in going round and round, though I suppose. Heck, I'm thin and attractive, and while I get asked out plenty, I've had fellows say I wasn't attractive because of various features beyond my control (my slightly Asian coloring, my feet---I've got some beat up ex-ballerina feet, even though I keep them pedicured, etc---aren't "cute" enough, etc). It's not a big thing. People aren't attractive to everybody, and anyone who's obsessed with everyone in the world finding them attractive is pretty silly.

 

Disagree, most women want the tallest man they can get and not appear aesthetically lopsided when next to him. Height is indeed a big deal in male attractiveness. Yes, it's a generalization, but large numbers back it.

Some do, but most I've met do not. I think it's a generalization too widely used, from my own personal experience. I'd be interested to see recent studies on this, broken down by generation, as well. I'm not sure there are any though.

 

At least one reputable study I've read has shown that height is the top criterion of attractiveness in men, or at least in the top three. The other two being favorable/symmetrical facial structure (handsomeness) and a more intangible quality of being "above" the woman in some key way. No, not going to dig up the study.

Then why quote it? I can't much talk about a study unless someone can cite it personally. Not just the issue of people making up statistics (90% of all statistics quoted are made up! ), but the methodology and trends are important to ascertain real data. Edited August 8, 2010 by zengirl

[LoveLace]

Yes, but what your saying to the guy that you intend to date is this:

 

I was dating guys I found very attractive before because I could... now Im willing to date men I am semi-attracted to who make good money and "settle down". I already date guys who I usually find semi attractive. And my future husband will likely be semi attractive too. And it doesn't matter how much money he makes as long as he's making some. And yes, I do want to "settle" down with one person for my whole life, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My friend is a perfect example. He has a successful video game startup. Girls that would not have anything to do with him 10 years ago... are coming out of the woodworks to "settle down" with him now. That's crap!

 

 

 

AND if I decide to change what I want in a man, that's my right, so what? It's only healthy to evaluate where you are and figure out how it can go in a more positive direction, by making positive changes. It could be anything from not dating divorced guys anymore to not dating men with kids to whatever, depending on what your experiences have been.

 

And yes a successful business man like your friend is going to be a good catch because he's obviously smart and ambitious. If woman only want him for money and not that, then you don't want to be him anyway!

[Stockalone]

But the question I have for these fellows: Does this mean any woman who indicates she's looking for a serious, committed relationship is similarly unattractive to you? Or is it just the phrase itself?

 

Wanting a serious and commited relationship is not what makes her unattractive. A serious and commited relationship is what I want too.

 

It's the mindset (and past behaviour) behind the phrase that bothers me. As I explained earlier, in my experience, the women who use that phrase usually have a history of carefree and reckless attitude. Not thinking about long term consequences of their choices, being promiscuous, knowingly dating the wrong kind of guy, etc.

 

I have no tolerance for such behaviour, which is why I try to avoid those women if I can.

 

 

Actually, in some cases, that can be very attractive. I suppose wording matters (but that's me; wording matters a lot to me!), but the fellow I'm excited to go out with* when I move next week and settle in --- we've been e-mailing, video-chatting, etc, as I'm still overseas -- had on his dating profile something that indicated basically he was no longer interested in anything casual. I didn't take that to mean he was looking to marry just anyone (I'll definitely never be a place-filler!), but I did take it to indicate he knows what he wants, has his life together, and is only looking for connections that he feels serious about.

 

I have never been okay with casual, which is why a woman who used to be okay with casual, but now wants commitment and responsibility, is not what I want.

[zengirl]

I have never been okay with casual, which is why a woman who used to be okay with casual, but now wants commitment and responsibility, is not what I want.

 

Interesting POV. At my age (25), I've no issue with dating boys who were okay with having casual sex in the past. I think it depends on the mindset----I've no desire to date someone who was actually a Player, etc (though that alone would disqualify a guy, it'd make me pretty wary), but I imagine if I eliminated everyone who'd ever had casual sex in their life, or even recently, I'd be needlessly trimming away a good portion of the dating pool. I don't think I know a fellow who hasn't had/never had a point in his life where he would have casual sex, and I know lots of guys who are fairly serious guys who enjoy commitment well enough. Some were always cool with it; others had to "grow" into it. I'm not usually a fan of being someone's first committed relationship at this age, though.

[Stockalone]

Interesting POV. At my age (25), I've no issue with dating boys who were okay with having casual sex in the past. I think it depends on the mindset----I've no desire to date someone who was actually a Player, etc (though that alone would disqualify a guy, it'd make me pretty wary), but I imagine if I eliminated everyone who'd ever had casual sex in their life, or even recently, I'd be needlessly trimming away a good portion of the dating pool.

 

There is no doubt that I am eliminating a good portion of the dating pool, but I honestly don't consider this a loss. And I am pretty sure that the women I want nothing to do with because of that, feel the same way about me.

 

 

I don't think I know a fellow who hasn't had/never had a point in his life where he would have casual sex, and I know lots of guys who are fairly serious guys who enjoy commitment well enough. Some were always cool with it; others had to "grow" into it. I'm not usually a fan of being someone's first committed relationship at this age, though.

 

I don't understand.