Picking incompatible people/Commitment phobia

[threebyfate]

I'm more than open to it. Push me into the deep end! I never really learned how to swim, but that's okay.

Sheesh, make me feel guilty now!

 

Let's break this down a bit.

 

Vulnerability: When you care about someone, what's the worst thing they can do to you?

 

Control/power: Where does this need come from and how is it useful to you?

[tigressA]

Sheesh, make me feel guilty now!

 

Let's break this down a bit.

 

Vulnerability: When you care about someone, what's the worst thing they can do to you?

 

Control/power: Where does this need come from and how is it useful to you?

 

:lmao:

 

What's the worst thing someone can do to me if I care about them...hmm. I've actually never really given much thought to that. I know one thing that really, really upsets me is when someone is unwilling to understand me/my perspective on things. For example, my extended family. I ended up cutting myself off from them because I was always feeling so betrayed--they were so unwilling to consider where I was coming from, my knowledge, my whatever else. They basically refused to acknowledge me as a thinking human being with her own experiences and point of view. I guess it would be that.

 

As far as control/power: I think this may also come somewhat from my family (whenever I was staying with my extended family, especially recently, I would have to lie my butt off to be able to go anywhere/do anything I wanted; I was always outfoxing them and succeeding), but primarily from being bullied in school, I think. I felt somewhat powerless to stop it, seeing as whatever I did--ignoring them, firing back at them, snitching on them--didn't do anything. I was always looking for ways to at least turn the tables on them, to wrest back control for at least a little while. I would have extremely cutting insults for them that I'd utter in an entire classroom of people, etc. I still consider one of my proudest moments this time during my freshman year of high school, in algebra class. This really dumb-assed jock guy who was teasing me asked why I "hated" him. I burst out: "Because sitting next to you is detracting from my intelligence quotient!" Even the teacher thought it was hilarious. I felt like I'd taken something from him. I was happy.

[threebyfate]

:lmao:

 

What's the worst thing someone can do to me if I care about them...hmm. I've actually never really given much thought to that. I know one thing that really, really upsets me is when someone is unwilling to understand me/my perspective on things. For example, my extended family. I ended up cutting myself off from them because I was always feeling so betrayed--they were so unwilling to consider where I was coming from, my knowledge, my whatever else. They basically refused to acknowledge me as a thinking human being with her own experiences and point of view. I guess it would be that.

 

As far as control/power: I think this may also come somewhat from my family (whenever I was staying with my extended family, especially recently, I would have to lie my butt off to be able to go anywhere/do anything I wanted; I was always outfoxing them and succeeding), but primarily from being bullied in school, I think. I felt somewhat powerless to stop it, seeing as whatever I did--ignoring them, firing back at them, snitching on them--didn't do anything. I was always looking for ways to at least turn the tables on them, to wrest back control for at least a little while. I would have extremely cutting insults for them that I'd utter in an entire classroom of people, etc. I still consider one of my proudest moments this time during my freshman year of high school, in algebra class. This really dumb-assed jock guy who was teasing me asked why I "hated" him. I burst out: "Because sitting next to you is detracting from my intelligence quotient!" Even the teacher thought it was hilarious. I felt like I'd taken something from him. I was happy.

Would you then say that your greatest fears are being devalued?

[SassyKitten]

:lmao:

 

What's the worst thing someone can do to me if I care about them...hmm. I've actually never really given much thought to that. I know one thing that really, really upsets me is when someone is unwilling to understand me/my perspective on things. For example, my extended family. I ended up cutting myself off from them because I was always feeling so betrayed--they were so unwilling to consider where I was coming from, my knowledge, my whatever else. They basically refused to acknowledge me as a thinking human being with her own experiences and point of view. I guess it would be that.

 

As far as control/power: I think this may also come somewhat from my family (whenever I was staying with my extended family, especially recently, I would have to lie my butt off to be able to go anywhere/do anything I wanted; I was always outfoxing them and succeeding), but primarily from being bullied in school, I think. I felt somewhat powerless to stop it, seeing as whatever I did--ignoring them, firing back at them, snitching on them--didn't do anything. I was always looking for ways to at least turn the tables on them, to wrest back control for at least a little while. I would have extremely cutting insults for them that I'd utter in an entire classroom of people, etc. I still consider one of my proudest moments this time during my freshman year of high school, in algebra class. This really dumb-assed jock guy who was teasing me asked why I "hated" him. I burst out: "Because sitting next to you is detracting from my intelligence quotient!" Even the teacher thought it was hilarious. I felt like I'd taken something from him. I was happy.

 

I think about that too, and the more times I've had my heart broken, the more I am terrified when I enter a new relationship. The worst that can happen is giving yourself, your affection, and your heart, and it being one-sided. Which is what just happened to me.

 

And I also am heavily affected by my family. I have witnessed and seen some unspeakably horrible things that I am extremely mindful of avoiding. Yet somehow keep getting sucked back into. It blows.

[tigressA]

Would you then say that your greatest fears are being devalued?

 

Yes. I would. I know I am valuable, but I have such trouble trusting someone else to believe that, and have their actions/words show that. I've spent a significant part of my life being devalued by people, even my own family. And this is after opening myself up to them. And it's like, if you can't trust them...who can you trust, besides yourself?

[threebyfate]

Yes. I would. I know I am valuable, but I have such trouble trusting someone else to believe that, and have their actions/words show that. I've spent a significant part of my life being devalued by people, even my own family. And it's like, if you can't trust them...who can you trust, besides yourself?

Based on the background you've provided, it's easy to understand why this is important and how the trust factor impacts.

 

But tigress, no matter what external opinions are, aren't you who you are?

[tigressA]

But tigress, no matter what external opinions are, aren't you who you are?

 

Yes. I am. I know this. So far it's just been very difficult for me to put that knowledge into action. I never realized until recently just how debilitating this fear of trusting people to know me is.

[threebyfate]

Yes. I am. I know this. So far it's just been very difficult for me to put that knowledge into action. I never realized until recently just how debilitating this fear of trusting people to know me is.

Yes, it can be debilitating. I'm going to lay it all out and tie it your original response to Kamille's post about expressing needs. How can anyone value who you are, if you don't allow them to know who you are?

[tigressA]

How can anyone value who you are, if you don't allow them to know who you are?

 

Yeah, and of course I never thought of it from this perspective. Always so busy hiding and manipulating that I never let myself "just be".

 

Actually...I've found it's really easy for me to be myself around people who I don't take very seriously. Example: if I'm dating someone I never have any intention of being serious about, no matter how good the connection is, I am just so carefree. And it's great. I tend to flourish in casual relationships.

[threebyfate]

Yeah, and of course I never thought of it from this perspective. Always so busy hiding and manipulating that I never let myself "just be".

 

Actually...I've found it's really easy for me to be myself around people who I don't take very seriously. Example: if I'm dating someone I never have any intention of being serious about, no matter how good the connection is, I am just so carefree. And it's great. I tend to flourish in casual relationships.

You flourish because you feel safe to be yourself since there's no fear of loss or devaluation. So why not apply this towards serious relationships?

[tigressA]

You flourish because you feel safe to be yourself since there's no fear of loss or devaluation. So why not apply this towards serious relationships?

 

Sounds like a good idea. Sounds really simple.

[threebyfate]

Sounds like a good idea. Sounds really simple.

Do I sense a touch of pessimism and maybe some sarcasm?

 

No doubt it won't be easy since we each have ingrained ways to cope but if you pay attention to how you're responding in each situation as it happens, maybe slowly but surely, you can find some middle ground within yourself.

 

Intellectually, you know you have value. But emotionally, I'm not sure if you're there yet. So it's the emotional aspect that you need to learn to balance.

 

If you're interested in knowing how I handle relationships and devaluation, I can provide it. If not, that's okay too.

[tigressA]

Do I sense a touch of pessimism and maybe some sarcasm?

 

No doubt it won't be easy since we each have ingrained ways to cope but if you pay attention to how you're responding in each situation as it happens, maybe slowly but surely, you can find some middle ground within yourself.

 

Intellectually, you know you have value. But emotionally, I'm not sure if you're there yet. So it's the emotional aspect that you need to learn to balance.

 

If you're interested in knowing how I handle relationships and devaluation, I can provide it. If not, that's okay too.

 

Oh no no no! No sarcasm! Or pessimism. Just an acknowledgment. You're right, these ways are ingrained. I have started paying attention to how I act, however. I started that with the control freak I kicked to the curb. He was right about some things, and did end up helping me.

 

What you said here with regard to intellectually vs. emotionally knowing is so. right. on. That's how I've felt for the longest time. I always say, "I know this, but I still do blah blah blah."

 

I would love to know how you handle this, TBF.

[Kamille]

How can anyone value who you are, if you don't allow them to know who you are?

 

Brilliant!

 

 

I didn't know you were bullied. I was too. I worked really hard for a really long time at making sure people had nothing on me. I was the queen of being cool. I always tried to figure out what to say to make sure people admired me. I still catch myself doing it sometimes. All a response to being bullied from grade school to junior high, my sister being the first and worst persecutor.

 

I'm finally starting to get over it and finding a middle crowd where I'm learning to put my needs ahead of my desire to be liked and admired. Not easy, because my need to be liked often trumps everything else.

[threebyfate]

Oh no no no! No sarcasm! Or pessimism. Just an acknowledgment. You're right, these ways are ingrained. I have started paying attention to how I act, however. I started that with the control freak I kicked to the curb. He was right about some things, and did end up helping me.

 

What you said here with regard to intellectually vs. emotionally knowing is so. right. on. That's how I've felt for the longest time. I always say, "I know this, but I still do blah blah blah."

 

I would love to know how you handle this, TBF.

It starts with a reasonable level of trust. I let guys know right out the gate that I need to be prioritized. They always say in a paraphrased way:

 

*scooby doo voice*

 

"Yes, yes."

 

As time goes on, I gauge by a combination of words and actions. If they don't mesh, the alarm bell goes off, sometimes low level, other times it's a five alarm fire. When this happens, if it's low level, I try to talk it out with them, communicating my needs. And again it usually ends up in the same paraphrased way:

 

*scooby doo voice*

 

"Yes, yes."

 

Lather, rinse, repeat, one more time.

 

Most often, it's just lip service. When this happens, I cut and run, since I know it sources from a lack of respect for me as a person. Would you really keep repeating the same crappy behaviour with someone you value, if they've already discussed their issues with you? I know I wouldn't.

 

That's why it was such a breath of fresh air with H. If he agrees, he agrees. If he disagrees, we discuss. Sometimes he rolls over, sometimes I roll over and sometimes we compromise. 99.9% of the time, what's resolved is done, never to rear its ugly head again.

 

He's also not afraid to bring up his issues with me where it's also resolved in the same way.

----------------------------------------

The other thing that I do, is out of the blue, I ask them what they value about me. Stuck for words or superficial responses, speak for themselves. And if they're not good communicators, as in deer caught in headlights, they're out.

----------------------------------------

[tigressA]

It starts with a reasonable level of trust. I let guys know right out the gate that I need to be prioritized. They always say in a paraphrased way:

 

*scooby doo voice*

 

"Yes, yes."

 

As time goes on, I gauge by a combination of words and actions. If they don't mesh, the alarm bell goes off, sometimes low level, other times it's a five alarm fire. When this happens, if it's low level, I try to talk it out with them, communicating my needs. And again it usually ends up in the same paraphrased way:

 

*scooby doo voice*

 

"Yes, yes."

 

Lather, rinse, repeat, one more time.

 

Most often, it's just lip service. When this happens, I cut and run, since I know it sources from a lack of respect for me as a person. Would you really keep repeating the same crappy behaviour with someone you value, if they've already discussed their issues with you? I know I wouldn't.

 

That's why it was such a breath of fresh air with H. If he agrees, he agrees. If he disagrees, we discuss. Sometimes he rolls over, sometimes I roll over and sometimes we compromise. 99.9% of the time, what's resolved is done, never to rear its ugly head again.

 

He's also not afraid to bring up his issues with me where it's also resolved in the same way.

----------------------------------------

The other thing that I do, is out of the blue, I ask them what they value about me. Stuck for words or superficial responses, speak for themselves. And if they're not good communicators, as in deer caught in headlights, they're out.

----------------------------------------

 

This is great! Thank you. This will really help me.

 

I'd sent a sort of kiss-off email to C this morning, but he responded, and it turned into a somewhat lengthy exchange. I ended up putting myself out there for the first time ever with him--saying what I really felt, in regard to myself, him, and our relationship so far--and it ended with us agreeing to put the brakes on for a time, and stay in touch. I feel a lot better already. I feel like I've had a little breakthrough here.

[Phateless]

Wow, I'm resonating with so much of what I'm reading here. I too, was bullied, and have this fear that people won't understand or don't care who I am. I also feel like I won't be heard; like I can communicate PERFECTLY but they still won't understand me because I'm not important enough to listen to. And again, I know consciously that I am attractive and desirable and have a lot to offer, but I don't truly believe it, especially not emotionally. How do you break that barrier?

[threebyfate]

Good luck tigress. Those eureka moments give you a sense of relief. "Yes, yes, I get it, I get it!! :bunny:"

 

Phateless, wish I could help you but your personality type is very different than tigress. The underlying reasons are the same but how to handle it, would be different.

 

You seek information from every source and angle, to the point of it being detrimental since it freezes your ability to act or react, due to creating multiple forked roads with each potential decision.

 

Hopefully someone with a similar personality type can suggest things that will make sense to you.

[Phateless]

Good luck tigress. Those eureka moments give you a sense of relief. "Yes, yes, I get it, I get it!! :bunny:"

 

Phateless, wish I could help you but your personality type is very different than tigress. The underlying reasons are the same but how to handle it, would be different.

 

You seek information from every source and angle, to the point of it being detrimental since it freezes your ability to act or react, due to creating multiple forked roads with each potential decision.

 

Hopefully someone with a similar personality type can suggest things that will make sense to you.

 

You're right TBF, I think of things from every angle at once until I become locked in analysis paralysis. The first time I saw that term in a psychology textbook I thought "HOLY $HIT, that's me!"

[SadandConfusedWA]

Yeah, and of course I never thought of it from this perspective. Always so busy hiding and manipulating that I never let myself "just be".

 

Actually...I've found it's really easy for me to be myself around people who I don't take very seriously. Example: if I'm dating someone I never have any intention of being serious about, no matter how good the connection is, I am just so carefree. And it's great. I tend to flourish in casual relationships.

 

 

Wow. I can relate so much to what you are writing tigressA. Especially the quoted, but really ALL of it. I am also able to thrive in a relationship where I don't have strong feelings for the guy. I am funny, amusing, articulate, well balanced and don't play games. I am myself. And you know what? Those guys always end up falling for me.

 

As soon as I care, I start with power games. I start trying to prove that I don't care. I start censoring my every word and action. It always falls apart. For me, it's plain and simple fear of loss. Fear of getting hurt, abandoned and rejected. It's ironic that this always ends up happening, despite the self-protection mechanism that I have tried to put in place. With guys I don't care about, this fear is absent because I don't really have anything to lose there.

 

Also, TBF thanks for the brilliant analysis and advice. The only problem is that I can feel like I have had a breakthrough today, but then few days later - I fall back into my old habits. I don't quite know how to hold on to this breakthrough and make the changes permanent.

[SadandConfusedWA]

You're right TBF, I think of things from every angle at once until I become locked in analysis paralysis. The first time I saw that term in a psychology textbook I thought "HOLY $HIT, that's me!"

 

That is me too. My personality is also quite different form tigressA's and maybe more similar to yours.

 

I owe you a PM I will get there soon, I was side-tracked by all the drama that was going on (not sure if you are aware of it or not).

[threebyfate]

Wow. I can relate so much to what you are writing tigressA. Especially the quoted, but really ALL of it. I am also able to thrive in a relationship where I don't have strong feelings for the guy. I am funny, amusing, articulate, well balanced and don't play games. I am myself. And you know what? Those guys always end up falling for me.

 

As soon as I care, I start with power games. I start trying to prove that I don't care. I start censoring my every word and action. It always falls apart. For me, it's plain and simple fear of loss. Fear of getting hurt, abandoned and rejected. It's ironic that this always ends up happening, despite the self-protection mechanism that I have tried to put in place. With guys I don't care about, this fear is absent because I don't really have anything to lose there.

 

Also, TBF thanks for the brilliant analysis and advice. The only problem is that I can feel like I have had a breakthrough today, but then few days later - I fall back into my old habits. I don't quite know how to hold on to this breakthrough and make the changes permanent.

You're different than Phateless. He's, I believe, the thinking type where he's trying to squeeze logic and future consequences, out of emotions.

 

You're a feeler who's decision-making tools are emotions, which can be difficult to handle when strong or overwhelming.

[impz]

It starts with a reasonable level of trust. I let guys know right out the gate that I need to be prioritized. They always say in a paraphrased way:

 

*scooby doo voice*

 

"Yes, yes."

 

As time goes on, I gauge by a combination of words and actions. If they don't mesh, the alarm bell goes off, sometimes low level, other times it's a five alarm fire. When this happens, if it's low level, I try to talk it out with them, communicating my needs. And again it usually ends up in the same paraphrased way:

 

*scooby doo voice*

 

"Yes, yes."

 

Lather, rinse, repeat, one more time.

 

Most often, it's just lip service. When this happens, I cut and run, since I know it sources from a lack of respect for me as a person. Would you really keep repeating the same crappy behaviour with someone you value, if they've already discussed their issues with you? I know I wouldn't.

 

That's why it was such a breath of fresh air with H. If he agrees, he agrees. If he disagrees, we discuss. Sometimes he rolls over, sometimes I roll over and sometimes we compromise. 99.9% of the time, what's resolved is done, never to rear its ugly head again.

 

He's also not afraid to bring up his issues with me where it's also resolved in the same way.

----------------------------------------

The other thing that I do, is out of the blue, I ask them what they value about me. Stuck for words or superficial responses, speak for themselves. And if they're not good communicators, as in deer caught in headlights, they're out.

----------------------------------------

 

wow, this is very similar to me and my wife's form of discussion. The only issue is that she probably has a much quicker temper and flares up quickly. That said, it is good that she is open to reason, and we usually discuss clearly how things should be resolved, have a deep discussion and it usually will never appear. That said, we hardly have anything that really needs a lot of discussion since we are both happy-go-lucky and silly.

 

On TigressA's statement, I will say that the notion of romance reduces rationality for a lot of people to the point that you might lose sight of the possible long term commitment of the person. That said, I would easily siphon out anyone who have commitment issues simply because I cannot be in a relationship where I don't feel for the person and I don't think the person is serious in the relationship. Instant slam-door to the poor lady.~

[brainygirl]

I think I fall for incompatible men because I don't have the confidence in myself to pursue "better" guys, and then I justify the guy I'm seeing by saying "he's better than he seems".

 

But the truth is that I don't feel like I'm good enough on the inside. Mentally, I know I am attractive, accomplished, intelligent, funny, caring, warm, and generous. But something deeper whispers, you'r short, fat, plain, loud mouther, clumsy and have no sense of humor or fashion. It's hard not to listen to that voice when I'm thinking about flirting and sending "come hither" messages to a nice guy.

[SadandConfusedWA]

You're different than Phateless. He's, I believe, the thinking type where he's trying to squeeze logic and future consequences, out of emotions.

 

You're a feeler who's decision-making tools are emotions, which can be difficult to handle when strong or overwhelming.

 

I over-analyze too, but in a different way. I guess Phateless is more like Vertex. I am probably most similar to shadowplay in personality type on this board (but we still have differences).