shadowplay Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 He didn't say the second thing that way at all. You make it sound awful. It really wasn't. It brings up some interesting questions, actually: Is there a timeline for trust? When is it reasonable to start trusting someone? Is there a difference in trusting the statement "I'll call you tomorrow" as opposed to "I'm not seeing anyone else"? I happen to think he made a good point--we can say things to reassure someone, but if there's no trust there then the statements end up meaning little to nothing anyway. And as for the first thing, he retracted after I made my point clear about "going backward". He took my concern into account and compromised, which is what I wanted. Sorry, I was paraphrasing. I think it was an odd thing to say, but maybe it came off differently in person.
Author tigressA Posted July 21, 2010 Author Posted July 21, 2010 Sorry, I was paraphrasing. I think it was an odd thing to say, but maybe it came off differently in person. It did come off differently. I feel like what I've posted here has made him seem like a real jerk but I don't think he is. Sure, he's a bit unorthodox and I've questioned his actions since they aren't "typical" for a guy, but I haven't had any serious creepy gut feelings yet.
BWLoca Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 Jury's still out on this one but...someone thinking they know me so well after a month would just tick me off.
Star Gazer Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 I haven't had any serious creepy gut feelings yet. I think that tells you all you need to know, for now. But keep an open ear to that gut.
Pink Cupcakes Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 (edited) Why is it so hard to not have sex for a month or so? I don't get the big deal. In you saying you have to challenge him on that, you are saying that the relationship basically is based on sex, because it would be oh so hard to go without it for a short period of time. You keep saying it's "going backwards" but how is that so, unless the relationship is being held together only by sex? Is your self-esteem so low that the only desirable quality you feel you have to offer this guy is your body, and if that is taken out of the equation, you have nothing else to offer him and he'll bolt? That's what I think it is. Edited July 21, 2010 by Pink Cupcakes
Serenitynow Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 When I asked him if he had "other reasons", he immediately went to the heart of my concern: "You mean, am I f*cking other girls? That's what you want to know." I said, "Yeah, well...are you?" He said, "No, I'm not, and I don't want to." I said, "Oh, well, okay. That makes me feel better." He said, "Why does me saying that make you feel better? You do realize that that's just a verbal statement, and I could be nailing others while telling you I'm not and you wouldn't have any idea? See that's where trust comes in. I'm not interested in anyone else, but because you've had me tell you something you don't want to hear (no sex for awhile), you automatically think there must be other motives than the one I've given. You search for things that aren't there, insisting that they are just so you can be satisfied. You only put stock in things that you find pleasing. I'm not sure you even see the world around you much of the time; it's like you're in your own little bubble, fixing things to your liking and ignoring everything else that you can't control." Obviously this guy isnt a slouch. This is exactly what I would have told you too. You are a typical female. I'm not saying that in a degrading way. It simply means you search for issues. Thats what normal, everyday, regular (typical) females do. There are a ton of threads on here with women dating great guys, and the women speculate over things they "assume" are going on. If a woman is dating a guy with no problems, one way or another, she will find a problem(usually by creating it herself) Part of you causing small issues, is you like to be reassured that everything is ok. Just like your man said. A lot of women are more or less very insecure and have many hidden issues and self doubts that they hide away from everyone. They love to be reassured over and over in many different ways by their SO. As soon as the last bit of confidence starts to run out, they start worrying, analyzing, looking for signs, until they get that shot of self esteem, than everything's OK till the next time. Its and endless cycle. .
Mary3 Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 Okay , I read both your posts and its really been eating at me. Something you said or should I say he said / reminds me of something..... First of all, I am going to act like your Mom. No rock throwing at me ! But I will give ya what I got : Quote :" He's used to spending time developing an emotional/mental connection before engaging in sex." Your answer is RIGHT there ! Now the tips : Don't kick me... When you slept with him on the first date I don't feel he respected you . He did not respect you because you did not respect your body enough to know its WORTH waiting for ! The FWB stuff has got to go ! ( not saying it was with him but the suggestion that you need to go get disrespected by ANOTHER guy when this guy did not want to sleep with you anymore and analyzed it to death ( you admitted that he said you were way over thinking all of this ) ( Note : FWB is truly not good for your soul. I know women do the I am free and I like sleeping with whomever , but the reality is that it takes its TOLL on you ) You also said : ( This is when you first started seeing him and sleeping with him ) " I don't know how he feels about me " You DON'T know how he feels and you are sleeping with him ? ' You FIND out through getting to KNOW him and then later you sleep with him when he expresses his feelings and exclusitivity I know some will bash me for this but its true : Do NOT ask him or inititate the conversation about " Where are we " ? Let HIM do that. Let him have the idea that it was HIS idea ! I promise all that say : Hey no I am going to DEMAND to know where we are " This does not usually have a good outcome. Let the man take control of the situation. Let him ask you out. Let him call you. Once its getting more established you can call him . You can suggest nights out. Let him have * The Talk *... The BIGGEST gut kicker is the " Sleep with the girl for a month and then STOP . This does not usually have a good outcome . He is struggling with emotional issues or moral ones. I applaud him for slowing things down. Do I think he is a bad guy ? I don' know him. Its too new . Too soon . I feel that his emotional attraction to you was not strong enough Thus he could no longer be intimate sexually with you . The following are reasons why a guy stops having sex : ( He could have a few in there or none ) She isn't sexually adventurous enough for me - She doesn't seem to enjoy sex - I am interested in sex with others, but not with her. I am angry at her I'm bored - She is depressed - She has gained a significant amount of weight - I am depressed - I no longer find her physically attractive - I suffer from erectile dysfunction - I lost interest and I don't know why - I prefer to masturbate, but not online - I prefer to watch pornography online and masturbate - I am on medication that lowered my libido - I am/was having an affair - I suffer from premature ejaculation - I have difficulty achieving orgasm - I am too tired - She is/was having an affair - I don't have the time - I wasn't interested in sex to begin with - I am gay -
Crazy Magnet Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 mmmm.... I'm taking sides with the "he's slightly creepy" crowd. I don't like the way he's controlling the situation, I don't like the way he is presuming to "know" you when his knowing is a verbal statement of what you perceive as your biggest flaws. That is what is bugging me about this guy. To sit there and point out someone's weaknesses and make them vulnerable for an hour is quite manipulative. *hands over the yellow flag* Just in case you need to throw it.
Kamille Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 I don't just agree and then give up completely. I have been making sure that my concerns get addressed. All the concerns I had were addressed, and resolved. I think he has a point: you might have a tendency to look for underlying issues where there none. In my current R, I have a rule: I do not discuss things on LS until I have discussed them with bf. Any issue I raise here I should be able to raise with him also. At the same time, like others, I worry that he has too much control in the situation. But I need to hear more. What do you men you don't just agree and give up? Do you mean you need to argue your own beliefs about yourself with this man? Does he also put himself in perspective, the same way he does you? Are these negotiations of concerns fair? Does he ever concede to you? Or does he end up convincing that his interpretations are right?
Serenitynow Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 I have a rule: I do not discuss things on LS until I have discussed them with bf. Any issue I raise here I should be able to raise with him also. How many people you think are mature enough to follow your lead on that ? I guarantee many people on here that ask for advice, never even approach their SO with it after LS gives their opinions. .
Ariadne Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 Well, First the guy told Tigressa that he didn't want to have sex anymore and didn't spend the weekend with her, etc. Now first talk on the phone he tells her that maybe this is not "ideal" and that there is a lot of "distance" and that he is very "busy". But I'm sure people will advice Tigressa to talk to the guy and lay out her conditions.. I guess this is next: If I didn't want to see you anymore, if I didn't want to make time for you anymore, you would know.
Ariadne Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 "I'm not seeing anyone else." Then, noticing you're visibly relieved by his response, he adds, "but you shouldn't let that satisfy you. I could be lying." This was because T was "glad" that he wasn't seeing someone else. So he said that to piss her off, because the problems were others, and that she shouldn't be glad for something irrelevant that could not even be true.
Author tigressA Posted July 22, 2010 Author Posted July 22, 2010 I think he has a point: you might have a tendency to look for underlying issues where there none. In my current R, I have a rule: I do not discuss things on LS until I have discussed them with bf. Any issue I raise here I should be able to raise with him also. At the same time, like others, I worry that he has too much control in the situation. But I need to hear more. What do you men you don't just agree and give up? Do you mean you need to argue your own beliefs about yourself with this man? Does he also put himself in perspective, the same way he does you? Are these negotiations of concerns fair? Does he ever concede to you? Or does he end up convincing that his interpretations are right? He does put himself in perspective. He can be pretty harsh on himself, actually. I feel like he's the type to be very honest and therefore can come off as overly critical of himself and others, sometimes condescending. He has only 4 years on me, but he has much more life experience--he grew up in another country, has lived in a couple others, lived in several different cities here in the states, has had a rather demanding job for the last several years. I did feel once that he had thought of me as just some swoony schoolgirl, but I made sure to put him in his place in regard to that. I do feel the negotiations are fair. As far as him knowing me and how I operate, he also is right more often than not about what I want/need. So while outwardly the way we deal with things may not seem equal, they are. I am getting what I want and what I need. He usually doesn't need to consult me on my wants or needs because he just already knows. If he ever didn't, I would make sure to tell him so. And I have.
Pink Cupcakes Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 I would definitely be not easily accessible to him for a while. Let him do all the contacting, including text. Maybe take a few hours to respond to a text. Have plans the next time he asks you out.....make him go "hmmm".....Unfortunately this guy knows he "has" you and it might be tough to make ground after that. You're going to have to play hardball if you want to be this guy's girlfriend, and keep it up.
Author tigressA Posted July 22, 2010 Author Posted July 22, 2010 (edited) I would definitely be not easily accessible to him for a while. Let him do all the contacting, including text. Maybe take a few hours to respond to a text. Have plans the next time he asks you out.....make him go "hmmm".....Unfortunately this guy knows he "has" you and it might be tough to make ground after that. You're going to have to play hardball if you want to be this guy's girlfriend, and keep it up. First of all, way to presume that I've been clinging to this guy, being the one making all of the contact and such. The contact between us has been more or less equal, with him edging out a little more than me. Second of all, are you kidding me? No f*cking way I'm doing that petty high-school crap. I don't play stupid games like that. If I have to do that in order to keep this guy interested then he's not worth my time. He seems to be in this with me, so I'm going with that. I don't need to play "hardball". That's just beyond stupid and immature to me. Edited July 22, 2010 by tigressA
Pink Cupcakes Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 This whole discussion started because you initiated over the phone when he should come over and stay overnight, right? You need to let the guy do this, you even said you were the one initiating the planning for the overnight stays.
sagetalk Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 He said, "Why does me saying that make you feel better? You do realize that that's just a verbal statement, and I could be nailing others while telling you I'm not and you wouldn't have any idea? See that's where trust comes in. I'm not interested in anyone else, but because you've had me tell you something you don't want to hear (no sex for awhile), you automatically think there must be other motives than the one I've given. You search for things that aren't there, insisting that they are just so you can be satisfied. You only put stock in things that you find pleasing. I'm not sure you even see the world around you much of the time; it's like you're in your own little bubble, fixing things to your liking and ignoring everything else that you can't control." He's right, you don't trust him and he sounds like he is fairly intelligent and has the guts to call you out on it. I would be angry at you as well. Thinking he is sleeping with others girls is cruel. You have admitted yourself that you would do that to him. Are you concerned about trusting him or yourself, that's the real question. My guess is the latter more than the former.
Allisha Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 (edited) I would definitely be not easily accessible to him for a while. Let him do all the contacting, including text. Maybe take a few hours to respond to a text. Have plans the next time he asks you out.....make him go "hmmm".....Unfortunately this guy knows he "has" you and it might be tough to make ground after that. You're going to have to play hardball if you want to be this guy's girlfriend, and keep it up. This whole discussion started because you initiated over the phone when he should come over and stay overnight, right? You need to let the guy do this, you even said you were the one initiating the planning for the overnight stays. I'm sorry, but in my opinion, these two posts are utterly ridiculous. You're telling this girl to play immature, childish games with a guy she's now EXCLUSIVE with. You're telling her to play these games with the same guy she told she wants commitment from, or it's nothing at all? Isn't that sending mixed messages if she then changes her attitude? (ie, what people on here have been giving HIM a hard time for?) You're also telling her to no longer voice her needs or express what she wants with a guy she's now EXCLUSIVE with & let him do all the work? Seriously? Edited July 22, 2010 by Allisha oopsy.
pandagirl Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 This guy is good. I think it's too early too tell what he's *really* like, but he has Tigress eating out of his hands and buying into everything he says. I don't mean this in a negative way toward Tigress! But he's obviously a guy who can be very convincing and, perhaps, manipulative. That is TBD though. For now, go with the flow!
impz Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 I do apologize if I am not getting the situation right (I read all the posts in this thread), but I thought this guy is a very intelligent and well-articulated man who knows what he wants in a relationship, willing to stay exclusive for the thread-starter, has strong views that are not easily shaken, understand Tigress well enough to see through her, set proper boundaries for the relationship that accommodates both parties and can lead the relationship without being overly condescending (just a bit, not that much). What the hell is wrong with him and what are the warning signs, if any? P/s: I am not trolling, I am seriously wondering what is wrong with this man? He sounds like a total keeper for any woman, a confident man who knows what he wants, willing to be faithful and very very smart. Darn, if I am a woman, I will be attracted to him!
sagetalk Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 You are a typical female. I'm not saying that in a degrading way. It simply means you search for issues. Thats what normal, everyday, regular (typical) females do. There are a ton of threads on here with women dating great guys, and the women speculate over things they "assume" are going on. If a woman is dating a guy with no problems, one way or another, she will find a problem(usually by creating it herself) This is spot on. When there are horrible problems, many girls on this forum won't let the loser guy go. Cheating, abuse, talking to ex's, stealing, lying, they still want to keep him. But when there are no problems, they seem to create them out of thin air. I really think the big problem here is a lack of trust in herself.
impz Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 I do apologize if I am not getting the situation right (I read all the posts in this thread), but I thought this guy is a very intelligent and well-articulated man who knows what he wants in a relationship, willing to stay exclusive for the thread-starter, has strong views that are not easily shaken, understand Tigress well enough to see through her, set proper boundaries for the relationship that accommodates both parties and can lead the relationship without being overly condescending (just a bit, not that much). What the hell is wrong with him and what are the warning signs, if any? P/s: I am not trolling, I am seriously wondering what is wrong with this man? He sounds like a total keeper for any woman, a confident man who knows what he wants, willing to be faithful and very very smart. Darn, if I am a woman, I will be attracted to him! Not sure why I cannot edit my original reply. Here's something to Tigress. To Tigress, I have to admit that if I am in the same situation as the guy in your now-loving relationship, I will be extremely turned off and call for no sex too. To me, an emotional attraction should be set first before any sex should come in. This is because I have a naive belief that without an emotional and intellectual connection with the other party, I am just dating a piece of flesh that is very bloody beautiful. I am not that smart, but in his mind, he is probably speculating and trying to figure out whether you can be a long lasting relationship partner. He must have seen something good in you other than the sex, and you ought to just let things flow and be yourself. If he is as smart and perceptive as you said he is, there is clearly a motive why he is still keen to keep this relationship despite the turn off (you and him having sex right at the start). That clearly shows something good in you that you are not seeing in yourself
Author tigressA Posted July 22, 2010 Author Posted July 22, 2010 He's right, you don't trust him and he sounds like he is fairly intelligent and has the guts to call you out on it. I would be angry at you as well. Thinking he is sleeping with others girls is cruel. You have admitted yourself that you would do that to him. Are you concerned about trusting him or yourself, that's the real question. My guess is the latter more than the former. Well, I thought that because I didn't think it was wise to assume we were exclusive. I did it to protect myself. And I admitted later in my other thread that I wouldn't sleep with or date anyone else; I really didn't want to and still don't. I was just lashing out at what I then felt was a power play. In a way I am worried about trusting myself. I do like this guy quite a bit, but the fact that I've lashed out at him when he says certain things that I already know to be true, plus the fact that I wasn't faithful in my only long-term relationship, and the fact that because of our respective schedules we won't have a whole lot of time for each other for awhile, add up to the possibility that I could end up getting bored despite my feelings for/intense attraction to him and end up wanting out. I want to think that that won't happen, but I have to admit it could. This is a situation I haven't found myself in before and it's a challenge. I like to think I'm up to it.
shadowplay Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 He does put himself in perspective. He can be pretty harsh on himself, actually. I feel like he's the type to be very honest and therefore can come off as overly critical of himself and others, sometimes condescending. He has only 4 years on me, but he has much more life experience--he grew up in another country, has lived in a couple others, lived in several different cities here in the states, has had a rather demanding job for the last several years. I did feel once that he had thought of me as just some swoony schoolgirl, but I made sure to put him in his place in regard to that. I do feel the negotiations are fair. As far as him knowing me and how I operate, he also is right more often than not about what I want/need. So while outwardly the way we deal with things may not seem equal, they are. I am getting what I want and what I need. He usually doesn't need to consult me on my wants or needs because he just already knows. If he ever didn't, I would make sure to tell him so. And I have. Hmmm. Now I'm wondering if part of the oddness of his manner might be a cultural difference. I didn't realize he was raised in another country. Maybe his culture is more open with feelings and that sort of thing.
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